Sept. 2, 2020

Mickey Raphael interview

Mickey Raphael interview
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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Country Harmonica Session Musician

Mickey Raphael started out playing on the Dallas folk scene before meeting with Willie Nelson at a jam session. Forty six years later, Mickey has toured the world with Willie.
Alongside that, Mickey has enjoyed great recording success as a session musician, playing with Emmylou Harris, the Highwayman Country Supergroup, U2, Wynton Marsalis, Ringo Starr, and more recently with Chris Stapleton. The list goes on and on.
He played at Ray Charles funeral, and was most likely the inspiration for the Blues Brothers.
Throughout it all Mickey has remained humble about his tremendous career playing the harmonica.

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Links:
Mickey's website: http://www.mickeyraphael.com/
Discography: https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/mickey_raphael/credits/

YouTube:
Mickey playing with Willie Nelson and Sheryl Crow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSOBOJ10JZo
Mickey playing Georgia with Willie Nelson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt8pgr7J6g0
Mickey playing with Chris Stapleton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4nP16bUVL8


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:23 - Grew up in Dallas and influenced by British Blues invasion

02:48 - Started playing guitar but soon went to harmonica

03:24 - Donnie Brooks inspired Mickey to play

05:43 - Paul Butterfield was a mentor to Mickey

07:26 - First recorded with BW Stevenson

09:12 - First met Willie Nelson

10:53 - Important not to overplay

13:29 - What Willie liked about the harmonica in his band

14:17 - Red Headed Stranger album

15:17 - Mickey appeared in two movies with Willie

16:37 - Touring with Willie and favourite venue

18:13 - Difference between studio and live albums

21:03 - Range of genres playing with Willie

22:06 - Ray Charles album with Wynton Marsalis

22:59 - Mickey played at Ray Charles funeral

23:59 - Played with Emmylou Harris

25:48 - Highwayman Country supergroup

26:32 - Playing Orange Blossom Special with Johnny Cash

27:33 - Solo album: Hand To Mouth

30:32 - Red River Valley instrumental album

32:05 - Album with Chris Stapleton

32:43 - Other big names Mickey has played with

34:03 - Met Miles Davis

35:21 - Mickey helped inspire formation of the Blues Brothers

37:46 - Why the move to Nashvile and recording with Charlie McCoy

40:00 - Some involvement in harmonica for health

41:14 - Country style of harmonica

43:11 - What position does Mickey usually use and working on movie scores

43:48 - Does Mickey use Country tuning?

44:08 - Chromatic harmonica

45:47 - Bass harmonica

47:36 - 10 minute question

48:43 - Harmonica of choice

49:40 - Favourite key of diatonic

50:17 - Different tunings

52:12 - Overblows

52:20 - Embouchre

52:36 - Amps and mics

53:18 - Effects pedals and ribbon mics

54:51 - Tube amps

55:41 - Future plans

WEBVTT

00:00:00.770 --> 00:00:03.412
Hello everybody, Mickey Raphael joins me today.

00:00:04.092 --> 00:00:08.657
Mickey started out playing on the Dallas Folk scene before meeting Willie Nelson at a jam session.

00:00:08.678 --> 00:00:12.461
46 years later, Mickey has toured the world with Willie.

00:00:13.223 --> 00:00:25.856
Alongside that, Mickey has enjoyed some great recording success as a session musician, playing with Emmylou Harris, the Hairway Man Country Supergroup, Wynton Marsalis, Ringo Starr and more recently with Chris Stapleton.

00:00:26.297 --> 00:00:27.478
The list goes on and on.

00:00:28.641 --> 00:00:33.689
He played at Ray Charles' funeral and was most likely the inspiration for the Blues Brothers band.

00:00:34.189 --> 00:00:38.734
Throughout it all, Mickey has remained humble about his tremendous career playing the harmonica.

00:00:38.755 --> 00:00:46.545
A word to my sponsor again, thanks to the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more designed for harmonica.

00:00:46.966 --> 00:00:50.149
Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf.

00:01:01.857 --> 00:01:13.612
So hello, Mickey Raphael, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:14.353 --> 00:01:16.075
Hey, thank you for having me.

00:01:16.096 --> 00:01:19.861
So you're very well known for being Willie Nelson's harmonica player for many years.

00:01:19.941 --> 00:01:21.884
So obviously, we'll get into that.

00:01:22.224 --> 00:01:24.626
But before then, we'll start off in your early days.

00:01:25.408 --> 00:01:29.593
So you grew up around Dallas, I think, playing sort of folk and blues styles initially.

00:01:29.614 --> 00:01:29.694
Yeah.

00:01:30.049 --> 00:01:31.751
Yeah, I grew up in Dallas, Texas.

00:01:32.173 --> 00:01:34.575
Really had no country background.

00:01:35.016 --> 00:01:37.278
I just wasn't exposed to country music.

00:01:37.399 --> 00:01:39.302
And, you know, I loved rock music.

00:01:39.341 --> 00:01:52.718
I mean, I loved, I think the British invasion was really my beginning of, you know, my music education with the Stones and the Beatles and the Kinks and, you know, listening to John Mayall play harmonica.

00:01:53.478 --> 00:01:58.686
I was more hands-on with kind of the folk scene in Dallas because there were some great little clubs there.

00:01:58.817 --> 00:02:05.569
Little coffee houses where the singer-songwriters, you know, like Michael Murphy or Jerry Jeff Walker would come through and play.

00:02:05.728 --> 00:02:10.137
So when I first started playing harmonic, it was more in that folk vein.

00:02:10.556 --> 00:02:15.264
You know, the harmonic players that I listened to, you know, were not the Chicago guys.

00:02:15.344 --> 00:02:21.254
It was more John Mayoff and Duster Bennett, who was a one-man band.

00:02:22.837 --> 00:02:24.259
¶¶

00:02:34.145 --> 00:02:36.570
Yeah, great that you talk about Duster Bennett.

00:02:36.591 --> 00:02:40.038
So yeah, he's known in that 60s blues boom.

00:02:40.258 --> 00:02:41.159
I saw him play.

00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:48.294
He was opening up for Elton John's first US tour, which I'd gone to see, but I was such a fan of Duster Bennett.

00:02:48.776 --> 00:02:53.445
You started playing some guitar, and you didn't get on too well with that, and that's when you turned to the harmonica.

00:02:53.954 --> 00:02:57.179
Yeah, well, I love music and I wanted to be a musician.

00:02:57.338 --> 00:03:02.707
So, as every kid has a guitar, and it just didn't click with me.

00:03:02.768 --> 00:03:10.020
You know, I don't know if it's because I didn't practice enough, but it just wasn't, I just didn't lock into playing the guitar.

00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:13.645
And a friend of my dad's played harmonica and gave me one as a kid.

00:03:13.846 --> 00:03:15.968
So I always, you know, had it close.

00:03:16.310 --> 00:03:18.653
You know, I was always interested in the thing.

00:03:19.042 --> 00:03:27.198
And I saw, I went to this club called the Rubioff, which was that little folk club in Dallas, and saw Donnie Brooks play harmonica.

00:03:27.358 --> 00:03:29.983
And it's the first time I'd seen a harmonica player in person.

00:03:30.443 --> 00:03:34.792
And he was such a brilliant player and just, just blew me away.

00:03:34.812 --> 00:03:39.645
And that's when I, you know, after I saw him play, I was like, It's like, okay, this is what I want to do.

00:03:39.925 --> 00:03:41.888
So was that the first harmonica playing you heard?

00:03:41.907 --> 00:03:42.709
It was really the

00:03:42.769 --> 00:03:52.383
first harmonica player that I got into because it was in that he was playing in that folk scene in Dallas and playing on some Jerry Jeff Walker records.

00:03:52.582 --> 00:04:03.659
And he ended up going on to play with Whitewood, which kind of brought me into the country world, you know, when I was following Johnny's career.

00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:05.222
¶¶

00:04:08.930 --> 00:04:09.450
You

00:04:12.193 --> 00:04:13.155
heard some Donnie Brooks.

00:04:13.194 --> 00:04:14.937
I think he showed you a few things.

00:04:15.497 --> 00:04:21.204
Yeah, I met him and told him I was interested in playing the harmonica, and I'd been playing a little bit back then.

00:04:21.706 --> 00:04:34.721
And he sat me down outside this little club and showed me a pentatonic scale, I think, on the harmonica, just how the notes were laid out, and it was really the basics for everything that I play now.

00:04:35.617 --> 00:04:42.384
Were you listening to the sort of British blues boom before then, or did you pick up on that after you started playing the harmonica?

00:04:42.824 --> 00:04:45.567
No, I think it was about around the mid-60s.

00:04:46.168 --> 00:04:52.915
You know, what Brian Jones was playing or Jagger was playing with the Stones, John Mayall, again, Duster Bennett.

00:04:53.314 --> 00:04:56.098
And then the American groups were like Canned Heat.

00:04:56.177 --> 00:04:57.620
So this is all late 60s.

00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:03.766
Canned Heat, 11 Spoonful, you know, John Sebastian, Neil Young, Bob Dylan.

00:05:04.449 --> 00:05:05.250
These were the guys.

00:05:05.290 --> 00:05:09.475
And then when I got into a little more blues feel, it was the acoustic guys.

00:05:09.516 --> 00:05:10.838
You know, it was Slim Harpo.

00:05:13.942 --> 00:05:26.898
And

00:05:27.158 --> 00:05:28.139
Sonny Boy Williamson.

00:05:28.721 --> 00:05:32.925
You know, before I got into, you know, the Chicago style, Little Walter.

00:05:33.281 --> 00:05:39.612
You know, my blues, my first blues records were Segal Schwall Band, Canned Heat.

00:05:40.153 --> 00:05:42.817
And then, you know, I loved the acoustic blues.

00:05:43.238 --> 00:05:46.803
And Paul Butterfield, who I met later in life, sort of became my mentor.

00:05:47.185 --> 00:05:52.012
But, you know, Butter was always one of my favorite part players for tone and phrasing.

00:05:52.252 --> 00:05:54.055
I was fortunate enough to spend a little time

00:05:54.117 --> 00:05:54.416
with him.

00:05:54.778 --> 00:05:56.259
Yeah, so what was he like then?

00:05:56.339 --> 00:05:59.805
I haven't really talked to anybody who's had direct contact with him on here.

00:05:59.937 --> 00:06:00.699
You know, he was an

00:06:01.139 --> 00:06:01.860
interesting guy.

00:06:01.901 --> 00:06:03.122
He was very sweet to me.

00:06:03.564 --> 00:06:07.829
But I knew him for a year and never even told him I was a harmonica player.

00:06:08.129 --> 00:06:11.175
You know, he told me that all the young harp players, they want to duel him.

00:06:11.254 --> 00:06:12.596
It was always a competition.

00:06:13.057 --> 00:06:19.668
And he really kind of respected me that I didn't try to take him on, which, of course, was, you know, a no-brainer there.

00:06:20.149 --> 00:06:27.500
He kind of took me under his wing and he would show me stuff or he would just tell me, don't ever end a solo or a lick on that note.

00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:28.682
Don't ever use that note.

00:06:29.057 --> 00:06:33.526
He took me to see Norton Buffalo, who we both loved.

00:06:33.646 --> 00:06:35.168
He's such a great player.

00:06:35.689 --> 00:06:42.723
He took me to see Norton Buffalo, and Norton would play that solo on Runaway, and he'd use four or five harmonicas on the solo.

00:06:43.144 --> 00:06:48.814
And Butter would listen to it, and he leaned over to me and says, I can show you how to play that on one harmonica.

00:07:09.697 --> 00:07:24.572
You know, there was a little competition there always with Paul, but he was, you know, I got his respect because I didn't try to challenge him, which at least he felt that everybody was doing.

00:07:26.113 --> 00:07:27.555
Okay, so yeah, so moving on then.

00:07:28.115 --> 00:07:31.899
So you played around Dallas and you played with B.W.

00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:32.560
Stevenson.

00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:33.961
Was that your first band?

00:07:35.283 --> 00:07:38.084
Well, I played with a guy named Mike Ames, who...

00:07:39.041 --> 00:07:43.208
You know, played kind of our flat picking Doc Watson style guitar.

00:07:43.509 --> 00:07:47.415
And we had a little jug band and would play in some of the clubs in Dallas.

00:07:47.754 --> 00:07:49.276
And then I got with B.W.

00:07:49.497 --> 00:07:51.220
Stevenson and he had a record deal.

00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:52.242
He was on RCA.

00:07:52.461 --> 00:07:55.968
So the first record I made was with B.W.

00:07:56.327 --> 00:07:59.954
And we toured across the country in a van, you know, played a lot of clubs.

00:08:05.442 --> 00:08:05.502
And.

00:08:17.985 --> 00:08:20.154
Yeah, so when you were playing with B.W.

00:08:20.216 --> 00:08:24.072
Stevenson, were you then starting to play more country style?

00:08:24.634 --> 00:08:25.759
I had a little listen to him.

00:08:25.779 --> 00:08:28.048
He's got quite a country feel about him, hasn't he?

00:08:28.386 --> 00:08:33.289
Yeah, that's, I think, when I was listening to, started listening a lot to Charlie, what he was doing.

00:08:33.389 --> 00:08:41.256
I wasn't really into the actual country music per se, but I loved, but Charlie's harmonica playing was, you know, impeccable.

00:08:41.596 --> 00:08:51.785
And the stuff he did with George Jones or with Roy Orbison, you know, that's, I was just listening to how he was, you know, his phrasing and his tone and how he approached the songs.

00:08:52.106 --> 00:08:54.268
That was my schooling at that point.

00:08:54.688 --> 00:09:00.174
And Donny Brooks, I think, were my, those were my biggest influence There were many.

00:09:00.315 --> 00:09:02.859
Jimmy Fadden from the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:04.442
I would listen to him play.

00:09:05.624 --> 00:09:11.592
Yeah, Charlie McCoy seemed to have been very influential with lots of players, certainly in the non-blues style.

00:09:12.033 --> 00:09:19.725
So then you met, as you say, in 1973, you met with Willie Nelson at a Texas University party where you had a jam with him.

00:09:20.642 --> 00:09:20.942
Yes.

00:09:21.222 --> 00:09:34.623
Daryl Royal, who is the coach of the UT football team, was a friend of Willie's and a real patron of the arts and had a little pick-and-session in his hotel after one of the ballgames and had invited me over and bring my harmonicas.

00:09:35.063 --> 00:09:42.394
And Willie was there, and they just kind of passed the guitar around between a couple of singers and sang songs, and I just played along.

00:09:43.096 --> 00:09:47.022
And then afterwards, Willie said, hey, if you ever hear we're playing anywhere, come sit in with the band.

00:09:47.265 --> 00:09:48.648
That's basically what I did.

00:09:48.668 --> 00:09:54.176
I found him later several weeks and was sitting in with him, and I knew none of his songs.

00:09:54.416 --> 00:10:02.769
I'd heard Nightlife and Funny How Time Sits Away, but I wasn't really familiar with his catalog and the country music as a whole.

00:10:03.028 --> 00:10:11.961
The first gig that I played with him or sat in with him was basically a dance or it's a benefit for a volunteer fire department in a high school gymnasium.

00:10:12.193 --> 00:10:16.821
And we played that song Fraulein four times because it's a great two-stepping song.

00:10:16.861 --> 00:10:18.904
It's a great, people love to dance to it.

00:10:19.125 --> 00:10:21.048
So, and I just didn't know these songs.

00:10:21.087 --> 00:10:30.683
I mean, I could play along with them, you know, because I could hear the changes, but it wasn't something that I had as a background where all these standard, you know, country standard.

00:10:30.923 --> 00:10:34.350
So kind of had to do a crash course in what country music was about.

00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:36.852
But so how did you approach that then?

00:10:36.893 --> 00:10:40.860
You were used to playing, I guess, folk music, some blues, some acoustic blues.

00:10:41.179 --> 00:10:44.264
Was it a big move away from that style of playing?

00:10:44.686 --> 00:10:45.167
Not really.

00:10:45.206 --> 00:10:46.389
No, not musically.

00:10:46.448 --> 00:10:47.551
It wasn't much different.

00:10:47.691 --> 00:10:50.076
It's just that I didn't really know these melodies.

00:10:50.596 --> 00:10:53.701
And after you hear one verse, you know, you've got it basically.

00:10:54.243 --> 00:10:56.746
And with a young player, you're playing way too much.

00:10:56.988 --> 00:11:06.195
So I learned with him just to sit back and listen and you know, hear the song, and it doesn't take you long to figure it out, and then play when it's appropriate.

00:11:06.235 --> 00:11:07.496
Stay away from the vocal.

00:11:07.657 --> 00:11:14.509
You know, you don't have to play the whole time, which, you know, a lot of young harp players are pretty much guilty of, myself included.

00:11:14.948 --> 00:11:25.999
With Willie, I learned to listen and listen to him, listen to the other players, and just pick and choose your spots because it's not like, you know, that somebody's saying, okay, play here, don't play here.

00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.605
Willie kind of left it up to the band to orchestrate the songs ourselves.

00:11:32.004 --> 00:11:36.028
And, you know, you have to be respectful of others, not talk while somebody else is talking.

00:11:36.570 --> 00:11:38.171
Yeah, it's an interesting approach.

00:11:38.191 --> 00:11:45.477
You know, I listened to a lot of your music over the last week or so that, you know, you play quite sparingly and then you've got a solo, but not always a solo in the country music.

00:11:45.538 --> 00:11:49.182
So, you know, is that the approach of country or just the way that Willie wanted it?

00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:55.839
Well, it was kind of the approach to country overall is that the lyric is the most important thing.

00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.022
And with Willie, that's definitely so.

00:11:58.081 --> 00:11:59.624
And also Trigger, his guitar.

00:12:00.024 --> 00:12:04.171
He's one of these guys that would take a solo or he'd share a solo with you or give you the solo.

00:12:04.291 --> 00:12:05.493
You know, he was very gracious.

00:12:05.832 --> 00:12:08.096
But just don't play when the singer's singing.

00:12:08.157 --> 00:12:11.500
I mean, that could be the best advice I could tell anybody.

00:12:11.861 --> 00:12:15.167
So I think when you started playing with Willie, he wasn't a household name, was he?

00:12:15.187 --> 00:12:17.250
He wasn't particularly famous at that point, was he?

00:12:17.289 --> 00:12:17.470
No.

00:12:17.634 --> 00:12:18.956
No, we were playing,

00:12:19.416 --> 00:12:20.758
you know, country-western joints.

00:12:21.259 --> 00:12:42.926
He was just getting known by young people, you know, and this is the late 60s, early 70s, and the Vietnam War was still going on, and so you had your hippie types and your rednecks, but his music, when he moved back to Texas, brought those two factions together, and everybody got along, you know, and Willie saw something there.

00:12:43.330 --> 00:12:51.841
He saw how the music could have people with two different political views and social views and get along with each other.

00:12:51.880 --> 00:12:57.927
Is it right that when you joined, a lap steel guitar player just left the band, so you sort of replaced him?

00:12:58.589 --> 00:13:00.892
Yeah, Jimmy Day was playing pedal steel.

00:13:01.452 --> 00:13:05.518
He left the band, and Willie wasn't going to replace him with another pedal steel player.

00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.020
I was starting to sit in with the band at that time.

00:13:08.221 --> 00:13:11.806
You know, I kind of fell into the other solo spot, solo being...

00:13:11.905 --> 00:13:13.768
Like Willie's guitar was always first.

00:13:14.249 --> 00:13:20.918
And then Bobby, Willie's sister, when she played with us, she was a soloist, also a rhythm player on piano.

00:13:21.217 --> 00:13:22.519
But then I became a soloist.

00:13:22.539 --> 00:13:28.788
So instead of replacing Jimmy with another steel player, Willie just threw that chair to me.

00:13:29.288 --> 00:13:33.674
Was there anything particularly you think that Willie liked about the harmonica as part of the band?

00:13:34.096 --> 00:13:35.758
Yeah, I think he liked the sound of it.

00:13:35.837 --> 00:13:37.780
And nobody was doing it other than Waylon.

00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:40.144
Donnie Brooks was playing with Waylon.

00:13:40.924 --> 00:13:41.706
So I guess...

00:13:41.985 --> 00:13:44.970
You know, Willie thought it was safe to have a harmonica player in the band.

00:13:45.009 --> 00:13:48.173
Nobody was doing it that had a player that just played harmonica.

00:13:48.254 --> 00:13:50.277
And then Donnie didn't stay with Waylon that long.

00:13:50.317 --> 00:13:54.481
Donnie left Waylon, I think, the first year that I was playing with Willie.

00:13:54.783 --> 00:13:59.969
And then I went out with Waylon for a summer because Waylon's music just fit harmonica so well.

00:14:00.070 --> 00:14:03.474
And Donnie had really made some nice contributions to Waylon's music.

00:14:03.533 --> 00:14:09.160
And when Donnie left, I kind of killed in his spot for a little while because Willie was taking the summer off of 73.

00:14:09.826 --> 00:14:12.850
And then decided to go back to work, you know, go back on tour.

00:14:12.912 --> 00:14:14.975
So I left Wayland and went back with Willie.

00:14:16.658 --> 00:14:24.451
Yeah, so I think Willie Nelson had his big break in 1975 when he released the Red-Headed Stranger album, which, of course, you appeared on, yeah.

00:14:25.293 --> 00:14:25.374
Yeah.

00:14:46.913 --> 00:14:50.000
So was that the start of things really taking off with him?

00:14:50.942 --> 00:14:52.264
It hadn't really taken off

00:14:52.365 --> 00:14:52.565
yet.

00:14:52.946 --> 00:14:56.513
But yeah, Red Headed Stranger was the first record that I played with Willie.

00:14:56.552 --> 00:14:59.879
And then after that came out, I mean, we were starting to get some interest.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:09.493
And after that came out, things started really picking up and we started maybe playing more bigger clubs or some small, you know, theaters.

00:15:09.953 --> 00:15:17.284
And then when Stardust came out later in the 70s, it got, you know, a lot of critical acclaim too and really helped.

00:15:17.566 --> 00:15:19.469
And then Willie started doing movies.

00:15:19.649 --> 00:15:22.494
So Honeysuckle Rose really boosted his appeal.

00:15:23.195 --> 00:15:23.414
Yeah.

00:15:23.475 --> 00:15:23.755
Did you

00:15:23.816 --> 00:15:25.498
appear in that movie yourself?

00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:26.259
I did.

00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.385
I was in both the movies, Honeysuckle Rose and Songwriter.

00:15:30.767 --> 00:15:32.710
And just appeared as, you know, Willie...

00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:39.035
had a band his character had a band so the band played themselves basically great so you got acting to your

00:15:39.076 --> 00:15:39.777
credits as well

00:15:40.758 --> 00:15:59.518
yeah sort of it wasn't something i was really loving or comfortable with but yeah you can go back and watch those films and it's pretty funny but we're really just playing ourselves and there's a lot of good music in those movies and i mean that's where on the road again came from so

00:16:13.442 --> 00:16:14.943
So I haven't seen the movies.

00:16:14.964 --> 00:16:16.086
I haven't had a chance to check them out.

00:16:16.105 --> 00:16:20.412
So were they, is it kind of like a documentary on following the band or is it a fictional?

00:16:20.893 --> 00:16:22.054
No, it's totally fictional.

00:16:22.075 --> 00:16:27.022
It was about a, it was a love story of a philandering country singer.

00:16:27.482 --> 00:16:30.427
You know, there was a lot of touring and a lot of road jinx.

00:16:30.787 --> 00:16:35.293
And, you know, we just played ourselves and played a lot of music in the movie.

00:16:36.001 --> 00:16:44.231
So this was the start of you then having a great, successful time touring with Willie, which you've done for getting on for 40 years now, I guess, more than that, is it?

00:16:44.292 --> 00:16:49.698
As you're starting in the mid-70s when you started your touring schedule with him.

00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:52.942
Yeah, 46 years, maybe 47 years.

00:16:53.023 --> 00:16:54.225
Started in 73.

00:16:54.905 --> 00:16:55.145
Wow.

00:16:56.427 --> 00:17:00.852
So I guess you played in lots and lots of countries, lots and lots of big venues.

00:17:00.932 --> 00:17:04.657
Any particular big venues that you're a favorite?

00:17:05.410 --> 00:17:11.279
You know, we played, well, it wasn't that big a venue, but, oh, well, we played Shepherd's Bush, which I loved.

00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:15.606
But I think my favorite, if I had to pick one in the world,

00:17:15.968 --> 00:17:17.250
would be Royal Albert Hall.

00:17:18.270 --> 00:17:18.571
Excellent.

00:17:18.612 --> 00:17:22.458
Yeah, I was just talking to Jerry Porno, and he played at Royal Albert Hall, coincidentally, with Eric Clapton.

00:17:22.499 --> 00:17:26.565
So, yeah, what drew you to, what was the event at the Royal Albert Hall?

00:17:27.547 --> 00:17:28.689
Just a Willie concert.

00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:31.513
We played there with Willie, you know, with Willie three or four times.

00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:34.574
We used to come over for the big country festival at Wembley.

00:17:34.855 --> 00:17:37.499
You know, then that was a big package show with lots of bands.

00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:43.367
But then when Willie was able to fill a theater himself, I think we played two or three times.

00:17:43.808 --> 00:17:47.796
But it was just such an iconic venue and such a great sound in there.

00:17:47.915 --> 00:17:49.218
And the audiences were great.

00:17:49.438 --> 00:17:56.490
I mean, there are a lot of great venues in the world, but if I had to pick one, that was the most exciting place.

00:17:57.153 --> 00:18:00.678
I like the way the stage is set up almost out in the audience.

00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.382
It's not in the round, but you're very open to the audience.

00:18:04.643 --> 00:18:09.910
Lots of iconic recordings, playing with Willie Crazy, of course, is one of his famous songs.

00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:16.657
Listening to some of the albums, you seem to get more freedom on the live albums to play and to do solos.

00:18:16.897 --> 00:18:22.865
So what was that difference between playing the studio recordings and the live albums with Willie and how much space you got to play?

00:18:23.458 --> 00:18:27.503
Well, the live was, I think, not as structured as you are in the studio.

00:18:27.765 --> 00:18:33.093
Because the studio stuff, albums, you know, you can stretch out more in a live situation.

00:18:33.473 --> 00:18:39.742
For the studio albums, you know, you're playing on a song, and it's a three-minute song, and there's not four solos.

00:18:40.003 --> 00:18:42.487
And again, the harmonic has to serve the song.

00:18:42.548 --> 00:18:44.871
It's not Mickey and Willie.

00:18:44.951 --> 00:18:46.773
It's called Willie Nelson's record.

00:18:46.953 --> 00:18:49.178
You have to play what fits the song.

00:18:49.442 --> 00:18:52.386
So you're a little more limited, I think.

00:18:53.048 --> 00:19:01.099
Yeah, and for example, I think the studio recording of Crazy, you don't play on yet, but there's certainly some live recording of you playing on that.

00:19:08.551 --> 00:19:11.375
Yeah, I

00:19:12.057 --> 00:19:14.801
mean, Crazy, that was done before I was in the band.

00:19:15.105 --> 00:19:19.657
And that's really a song that I don't play on that much anyway.

00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:24.892
Is there any particular decision or discussion about which songs you do or don't play?

00:19:25.031 --> 00:19:31.809
Because again, it's interesting talking as a harmonica player and the harmonica player is listening about that decision process and where the harmonica does fit.

00:19:32.289 --> 00:19:39.557
Now when we're making a record, like we're working on a Sinatra tribute, the second one that he's doing.

00:19:39.898 --> 00:19:42.801
And again, you know, the harmonica has to fit the song.

00:19:43.041 --> 00:19:46.605
And they sent me 10 songs and I didn't hear harmonica on all of them.

00:19:46.625 --> 00:19:48.028
You know, they were fine like they were.

00:19:48.067 --> 00:19:49.869
I mean, I played on That's Life.

00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:52.512
I thought there was a, you know, the harmonica fit there.

00:19:53.093 --> 00:19:56.978
And a song called We Small Hours of the Morning, played the solo on that.

00:19:57.410 --> 00:20:04.096
But it's just, you know, there's some strings on it, and it's, again, you have to serve the song, and the lyric is the most important thing.

00:20:04.577 --> 00:20:05.077
You know, you

00:20:05.117 --> 00:20:06.220
just have to play what fits.

00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:12.185
So are you recording that against the tracks they've laid down, early tracks, or is this different versions?

00:20:13.186 --> 00:20:15.088
I think they cut the rhythm tracks in L.A.

00:20:15.490 --> 00:20:16.130
with some L.A.

00:20:16.250 --> 00:20:23.198
guys, and then they bring them to me in Nashville, and I do my part, and then they go to Willie in Austin and put his vocal on.

00:20:23.617 --> 00:20:28.385
Is that how you'd normally record now, you know, sort of remotely, or is that just due to the current situation?

00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:30.608
No, I think it's just due to the current situation.

00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:38.201
And I mean, we're also working on another record of original songs that, you know, that are covers that Willie's doing.

00:20:38.301 --> 00:20:39.805
You know, it's more of a country record.

00:20:40.425 --> 00:20:48.038
And since Willie's not traveling out of Austin right now, we cut most of the tracks here with the studio band live.

00:20:48.117 --> 00:20:50.342
So I was in cutting with the band at that point.

00:20:50.625 --> 00:21:01.987
You know, if I was on the road, you know, we tour a lot, and they were cutting tracks for that record, and I wasn't able to be there physically, I would, when I got back to Nashville, I would go in the studio and do my part.

00:21:02.989 --> 00:21:05.933
And Willie, you know, you do quite a different range of genres, don't you?

00:21:05.953 --> 00:21:07.416
I mean, you certainly do a bit of blues, don't you?

00:21:07.436 --> 00:21:11.644
There's a Milk Cow Blues song, which is probably a full-on blues song, yes?

00:21:12.226 --> 00:21:12.286
Yes.

00:21:27.074 --> 00:21:36.972
you get quite a lot of scope to play different genres with uh with willie as well do you

00:21:37.374 --> 00:21:52.184
yeah i mean he's all over the place as far as genres go i mean he just i just say he plays good music you know i can't even put a label on it yeah i have to kind of be a uh a jack of all trades and a master of none You know, we do a couple of blues songs.

00:21:52.204 --> 00:21:53.967
I mean, Nightlife is a blues tune.

00:21:54.488 --> 00:22:02.115
But it's not like, you know, the whole set is that we'll do some western swing and just some kind of ballads and genre.

00:22:02.135 --> 00:22:03.156
It's all over the place.

00:22:03.577 --> 00:22:05.259
Willie just plays the music that he likes.

00:22:06.040 --> 00:22:09.785
Yeah, and another one is well associated with, of course, is Rare Charles.

00:22:09.825 --> 00:22:12.367
He did the tribute album with Wynton Marsalis.

00:22:13.108 --> 00:22:17.693
Yeah, that was one of my favorites, playing with Wynton's band and doing those songs.

00:22:17.857 --> 00:22:20.921
And with having Nora Jones, you know, singing with Willie on that.

00:22:21.221 --> 00:22:22.083
That was a live record.

00:22:34.896 --> 00:22:40.022
You know, again, an interesting fusion, isn't it, with Willie playing, you know, in the sort of jazz setting there as well.

00:22:40.663 --> 00:22:42.465
Yeah, we get to play out a little more too.

00:22:42.486 --> 00:22:45.849
You know, the solos, you didn't just take one verse as a solo.

00:22:46.241 --> 00:22:48.184
Wynton would say, play more, play more.

00:22:48.565 --> 00:22:49.787
And I'd say, well, how long do I play?

00:22:49.846 --> 00:22:51.608
And he goes, you get tired of playing.

00:22:52.230 --> 00:22:53.392
Yeah, that's jazz for you, isn't it?

00:22:53.412 --> 00:22:55.153
15-minute solos, that's what we like to hear.

00:22:57.217 --> 00:22:57.717
So yeah, brilliant.

00:22:57.737 --> 00:23:02.222
And of course, that association with Ray Charles, and you played at Ray Charles' funeral, didn't you?

00:23:02.903 --> 00:23:04.567
Yes, that was pretty amazing.

00:23:04.787 --> 00:23:10.153
Willie, myself, and Jim Cox, who was a keyboard player, we did Georgia at his funeral.

00:23:10.193 --> 00:23:15.882
And I think that's where we met Wynton, because Wynton was there playing his trumpet.

00:23:16.385 --> 00:23:20.236
And Stevie Wonder was there, and Quincy Jones, and Little Richard.

00:23:20.276 --> 00:23:26.491
The audience was the people in the church that came to pay their respects at that funeral.

00:23:26.571 --> 00:23:28.477
It was pretty iconic.

00:23:28.758 --> 00:23:37.198
And besides being as upsetting as it was to play with an open casket, Just seeing Stevie Wonder in the front row was a pretty

00:23:37.838 --> 00:23:39.423
harrowing experience.

00:23:40.404 --> 00:23:43.192
Did Willie or yourself know Race Charles?

00:23:43.271 --> 00:23:44.273
Is that how that came about?

00:23:44.474 --> 00:23:45.256
Yeah, Willie did.

00:23:45.317 --> 00:23:51.170
Willie had played some music with him and they'd get together and play chess.

00:23:51.349 --> 00:23:52.673
They were big chess players.

00:23:53.442 --> 00:23:58.551
So we're moving a little bit from Willie now, I'll just go back to him, we'll touch back on some, but you play with lots of people.

00:23:58.913 --> 00:24:05.686
So you play with Emmylou Harris through the 70s as well and did a few recordings on a few of her albums.

00:24:05.707 --> 00:24:08.152
So I think the first one in 1975, Elite Hotel.

00:24:08.573 --> 00:24:08.752
Yeah.

00:24:09.334 --> 00:24:15.046
So during the time playing with Willie, were you also quite, you know, you're doing session work with quite a lot of people as well?

00:24:15.778 --> 00:24:21.048
Yeah, I love playing with different people, and it really keeps my chops up.

00:24:21.449 --> 00:24:24.496
So I was playing on Emmy's records and going out to L.A.

00:24:25.136 --> 00:24:28.022
every couple of months to record with her.

00:24:28.523 --> 00:24:30.888
And so I ended up getting an apartment in L.A.

00:24:31.410 --> 00:24:33.374
just for a change, just to get out of Texas.

00:24:33.665 --> 00:24:34.267
for a little bit.

00:24:34.567 --> 00:24:50.641
Emmylou is very gracious and I love working with her and her husband slash producer, Brian Ahern, who was just great in the studio and really knew how to get a good performance and a good sound out of the harmonica and a lot of the stuff that I played on, I recorded.

00:24:51.141 --> 00:25:01.289
The studio was in a mobile truck outside her house in Beverly Hills, this big kind of sprawling ranch style house and a mobile truck outside and they recorded it in the house.

00:25:01.390 --> 00:25:06.055
So they set me up with a microphone and a shower in one of the bathrooms.

00:25:06.195 --> 00:25:09.961
So that's all the Emmylou stuff was done, you know, in a shower stall.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.607
And that's where we actually came out and Willie recorded Stardust in that house.

00:25:15.489 --> 00:25:17.050
Did you record in the shower then as well?

00:25:17.392 --> 00:25:17.751
I did.

00:25:17.771 --> 00:25:20.316
That's the only place I've recorded at that house.

00:25:21.116 --> 00:25:23.840
And it's just real great ambience in there.

00:25:23.881 --> 00:25:29.127
And I mean, whatever you hear, the harmonica is pretty much, you know, a natural sound.

00:25:29.188 --> 00:25:33.054
I mean, I used an Electro-Voice RE-20 microphone.

00:25:33.473 --> 00:25:34.714
You know, it was a small shower.

00:25:46.669 --> 00:25:50.232
Yeah, so you played with Emmylou and also with Willie.

00:25:50.854 --> 00:25:58.482
In 1985, they formed the Highwayman Supergroup with Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings and Chris Christopherson.

00:25:58.982 --> 00:26:01.246
So you played some tracks with those guys as well.

00:26:01.794 --> 00:26:04.616
Yeah, we did a record in Nashville with those guys.

00:26:04.696 --> 00:26:08.521
And then that's really all they had planned to do was just an album together.

00:26:08.541 --> 00:26:11.545
And it went over so well, they thought maybe we should tour.

00:26:11.765 --> 00:26:12.886
Let's put a band together.

00:26:13.247 --> 00:26:18.011
And they were lucky enough to get the studio, the same guys, everybody that played on tour played on the record.

00:26:18.232 --> 00:26:19.294
And that was the rule, too.

00:26:19.374 --> 00:26:21.797
If you didn't play it on the record, don't play it live.

00:26:21.936 --> 00:26:23.979
So there was no jamming going on.

00:26:24.058 --> 00:26:27.462
But we just reproduced the record in a live version.

00:26:27.623 --> 00:26:29.645
We did three or four world tours.

00:26:30.241 --> 00:26:32.064
Some real giants there at Country Music.

00:26:32.084 --> 00:26:35.048
And Johnny Cash, of course, what was he like to work with?

00:26:35.488 --> 00:26:36.088
He was great.

00:26:36.148 --> 00:26:37.750
I mean, he was still intimidating to me.

00:26:37.770 --> 00:26:38.672
He's bigger than life.

00:26:39.112 --> 00:26:41.515
But he was just one of the sweetest guys on the planet.

00:26:42.096 --> 00:26:48.282
And every night he would do Orange Bosom Special and play a little harmonica, which is not my forte.

00:26:48.343 --> 00:26:50.665
I mean, I'm not a real fast harmonica player.

00:26:51.006 --> 00:26:54.029
He would do it and then he would kind of throw it to me to play with him.

00:26:54.465 --> 00:26:57.333
And then he would start getting faster and faster.

00:26:58.013 --> 00:27:00.980
I mean, I played it, but I didn't really, I don't know if I played it right.

00:27:01.040 --> 00:27:06.994
I pulled it off enough, but it definitely wasn't virtuoso like a Charlie McCoy moment at all.

00:27:07.175 --> 00:27:14.097
But Johnny did play a little harmonica and would just kind of start off the song and then throw it to me.

00:27:14.558 --> 00:27:17.443
So he couldn't play the whole Orange Blossom Special and Harmonica?

00:27:17.744 --> 00:27:21.571
No, but I think he would do it just to make me uncomfortable, just to mess with...

00:27:22.093 --> 00:27:29.105
Chris would joke with Waylon and Johnny would joke with Chris and Willie would be the guys trying to stir everybody up.

00:27:29.665 --> 00:27:30.288
Yeah, so great.

00:27:30.327 --> 00:27:33.297
Playing in that big country super group must have been a great experience too.

00:27:33.336 --> 00:27:37.910
And then you did a solo album in 1988 called Hand to Mouth.

00:27:38.290 --> 00:27:40.738
Yeah, that was, I was just hanging out with some guys.

00:27:40.818 --> 00:27:49.356
Well, I was actually playing I did a record with Ben Keith, who is a wonderful steel player, pedal steel, and he played with Neil Young for many, many years.

00:27:49.778 --> 00:27:55.502
He did a little instrumental record, and I went to play on it, and the guys that did it asked me to do one.

00:27:55.643 --> 00:28:07.214
So I did, and I just sat with my friend who was a keyboard player, and we just made up songs, just turned on the tape machine, and just kind of wrote Stream of Consciousness instrumentals.

00:28:07.654 --> 00:28:12.084
At that time, I was hanging out with Paul with Butterfield, And he came by the studio one day.

00:28:12.163 --> 00:28:19.614
So the last song, which I call Hand to Mouth, was him just dropping in and us having just a little jam session together.

00:28:20.255 --> 00:28:20.895
Oh, that's right.

00:28:20.915 --> 00:28:23.819
I was going to ask because I noticed there were two harmonica players on there.

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.021
Sorry, two harmonicas.

00:28:25.082 --> 00:28:27.384
I was wondering if it was you who had recorded the two harmonicas.

00:28:27.904 --> 00:28:29.227
No, it was me and Paul.

00:28:29.446 --> 00:28:33.492
I'm the first harmonica player, and Paul is answering me.

00:28:33.653 --> 00:28:36.817
That was a one-take thing just between me and Paul.

00:28:37.397 --> 00:28:40.221
It might have been the last recording he'd ever done, too.

00:28:45.538 --> 00:28:46.046
Bye.

00:29:12.546 --> 00:29:15.169
And yeah, you've got quite a mixture of songs on there as well.

00:29:15.209 --> 00:29:18.133
You've got Asia Minor and Mexico Co.

00:29:18.173 --> 00:29:21.297
So you've got a few different styles and genres on there as well.

00:29:21.758 --> 00:29:31.470
Yeah, we just, well, we wrote these songs and then tiled them later, you know, because again, it was just a lot of these songs, like The Search is one take.

00:29:31.690 --> 00:29:33.833
We didn't figure out what we're doing beforehand.

00:29:34.153 --> 00:29:36.836
That's why I call it The Search, because I was just searching for the next chord.

00:29:37.096 --> 00:29:41.162
But I had a good rapport with Gene Rabbi, is the guy's name, was the keyboard player.

00:29:41.473 --> 00:29:45.518
And we just sat in the room together with eye contact and just played together.

00:29:45.719 --> 00:29:48.442
These songs were just kind of crafted on the spot.

00:29:48.961 --> 00:29:56.990
And then I did Somewhere Over the Rainbow, which obviously I did not write, but it's a song that I love the melody and

00:29:58.092 --> 00:29:58.913
I love playing.

00:29:59.413 --> 00:30:02.576
Yeah, and you did that with If I Only Had a Brain, didn't you, sort of medley?

00:30:03.017 --> 00:30:04.479
Yeah, that was kind of the intro.

00:30:07.182 --> 00:30:07.261
Yeah.

00:30:26.882 --> 00:30:31.708
So, yeah, that's your solo album, I think, reissued in the year 2000, right, as well.

00:30:32.367 --> 00:30:39.676
And then there's another album under your name, which is Red River Valley, which is this kind of country instrumental song as well, albums, right?

00:30:40.237 --> 00:30:43.260
Yeah, I mean, that wasn't really my record.

00:30:43.300 --> 00:30:47.865
I mean, that was Cracker Barrel, which is a big chain of restaurants in the U.S.

00:30:47.945 --> 00:30:50.930
that have a store connected with them.

00:30:51.298 --> 00:30:57.567
that sell all kinds of souvenirs and music, a lot of instrumental country music.

00:30:57.886 --> 00:31:02.413
And they had just contacted me and said, we're going to do a harmonica record.

00:31:02.452 --> 00:31:03.074
Will you do it?

00:31:03.515 --> 00:31:06.699
And I said, yes, but it's not a Mickey Raphael record.

00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:11.385
We'll just call it harmonica, and I'll just be another player on the record.

00:31:11.778 --> 00:31:13.922
And I mean, they had all the songs picked out.

00:31:14.001 --> 00:31:18.148
So I really had no creative input other than just they wanted these songs played.

00:31:18.388 --> 00:31:20.833
Just play the melody and don't stray from the melody.

00:31:21.013 --> 00:31:22.336
So it was kind of crafted.

00:31:22.856 --> 00:31:25.480
You know, it's funny because if you Google my name, that comes up.

00:31:25.842 --> 00:31:31.069
But it's really not a representation of what I it's a representation of what I can be hired to do.

00:31:31.811 --> 00:31:33.153
I had no creative input.

00:31:33.538 --> 00:31:35.461
Yeah, I mean, it's nice, isn't it, from the point of view?

00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:39.728
It's all those kind of very well-known melodies, You Are My Sunshine and these sorts of songs.

00:31:39.768 --> 00:31:45.156
And it's nice playing, but yeah, it's all very, like you say, almost kind of background music, that sort of style, isn't it?

00:31:45.277 --> 00:31:49.743
So it's nice, nice stuff, yeah.

00:32:04.258 --> 00:32:08.469
Zoom forward to 2015, you had a big album with Chris Stapleton.

00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:12.298
Yeah, I was lucky enough to play on that record, Traveler.

00:32:12.338 --> 00:32:15.186
And then when I'm not with Willie, I tour with him live.

00:32:15.507 --> 00:32:16.169
I was able to do...

00:32:16.609 --> 00:32:19.472
Probably 20 dates a year with Chris and his band.

00:32:19.693 --> 00:32:20.914
I'm on a couple of the records.

00:32:20.954 --> 00:32:22.596
He's got a new record that I'm not on.

00:32:22.896 --> 00:32:27.702
I'll still tour with him next year, I think, if the schedule allows.

00:32:41.665 --> 00:32:49.035
And you played with all sorts of other big names, you know, Elton John and U2 and Bob Dylan and Ringo Starr even, I think you played with.

00:32:49.596 --> 00:32:56.743
Yeah, well, Willie did a duet, you know, sang with one of his songs and Ringo had me play harmonica, which was great, great fun.

00:32:57.085 --> 00:32:59.887
He's just a sweet guy and one of my favorite drummers

00:33:00.449 --> 00:33:00.509
too.

00:33:00.528 --> 00:33:07.277
So of all these names, I mean, any particular recordings you pick out or any memories from playing with all the different people you played with?

00:33:08.097 --> 00:33:15.586
Well, I love everything I played with, you know, with Stapleton, You know, Wynton Marsalis was so much fun to play with.

00:33:16.147 --> 00:33:17.509
I've just been very fortunate.

00:33:17.789 --> 00:33:20.755
Kenny Chesney, all the Emmylou stuff.

00:33:20.855 --> 00:33:23.898
Oh, I'm on a new Sheryl Crow record.

00:33:23.919 --> 00:33:28.786
She did a duet with Willie, and they just released a video of it.

00:33:29.105 --> 00:33:30.387
It's called Lonely Alone.

00:33:30.807 --> 00:33:35.013
For the video, I recorded my part here, you know, at my house in Nashville.

00:33:35.134 --> 00:33:37.758
Filmed it with the iPhone, and...

00:33:37.857 --> 00:33:45.184
And, you know, they sent me the stems, they sent me the tracks, and I just, I re-recorded my harmonica live, you know, for the video and they cut it together.

00:33:45.605 --> 00:33:50.509
But, you know, because of COVID-19, nobody's in the room together playing.

00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:54.354
But it's one of my, that's one of my favorite new songs that I've played on.

00:33:55.013 --> 00:33:55.835
Great stuff, yeah.

00:33:55.855 --> 00:34:00.539
So a great long list and played with so many people and fantastic.

00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:02.221
A couple of notable things as well.

00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:06.846
I believe you met Miles Davis at one point and he even played your harmonica.

00:34:07.394 --> 00:34:08.536
Yeah, I did.

00:34:08.675 --> 00:34:09.858
I was able to meet Miles.

00:34:10.378 --> 00:34:13.764
Willie's manager, Mark Rothbaum, also managed Miles.

00:34:14.306 --> 00:34:17.192
And Miles was a friend and a fan of Willie's.

00:34:17.251 --> 00:34:29.554
So he came to, we were playing in Vegas at Cedars Palace, and he spent a couple of weeks, we were there for two or three weeks, and he spent a week out there just hanging out with us and sitting on the side of the stage every night.

00:34:29.954 --> 00:34:32.637
on my side of the stage, which is a little unnerving.

00:34:32.697 --> 00:34:38.025
I mean, I'd spent a lot of time with him, so I knew him, but he still was such an icon.

00:34:38.346 --> 00:34:40.688
You know, I had so much respect for him.

00:34:40.708 --> 00:34:43.733
I had to really be on my toes with him on the side of the stage.

00:34:44.094 --> 00:34:50.081
And one night he came out, just walked out after the show, came out and picked up one of my harmonicas and said, you know, how do you play this thing?

00:34:50.121 --> 00:34:53.065
He just started kind of blowing on it and checking it out.

00:34:53.527 --> 00:35:02.106
And somebody came by with a camera and was able to snap a picture of Miles and I kind of cheek to cheek with both harmonicas in our mouths.

00:35:02.847 --> 00:35:03.228
Brilliant.

00:35:03.369 --> 00:35:04.070
And did Miles

00:35:04.130 --> 00:35:05.592
get a good sound out of the harmonica?

00:35:06.413 --> 00:35:08.916
About as good a sound as I would have out of a trumpet.

00:35:10.838 --> 00:35:11.320
Probably better.

00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:14.043
Trumpets are hard to play, aren't they, when you haven't played them before?

00:35:14.704 --> 00:35:17.469
Yeah, very hard to get a sound out of those things to begin with.

00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:19.030
But yeah, fantastic.

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:20.893
Yeah, so Miles Davis, great.

00:35:21.173 --> 00:35:26.521
And also, I believe you helped inspire the formation of the Blues Brothers, even.

00:35:27.202 --> 00:35:28.284
That's what I hear.

00:35:28.384 --> 00:35:31.469
Yeah, we would do Saturday Night Live.

00:35:32.130 --> 00:35:35.976
We did it maybe once or twice a year, you know, when they were first starting out.

00:35:36.436 --> 00:35:43.989
And after the show, we would go to the—or after rehearsals, we'd go to a club in New York called Lone Star Cafe.

00:35:44.389 --> 00:35:57.128
And Belushi would come with us and— Danny, Danny Aykroyd and Bill Murray and Gilda Redner and whoever else in the cast, you know, at the time was there, but we'd go sit in with Willie, you know, the whole band would go and play.

00:35:57.550 --> 00:36:02.056
And then, uh, Belushi and Danny Aykroyd would come up and, uh, and do their songs.

00:36:02.137 --> 00:36:09.088
And they, you know, they would just practice, you know, some of the blues and stuff that, uh, that we started playing with them.

00:36:09.208 --> 00:36:10.710
And, uh, Bill Murray would sing too.

00:36:11.411 --> 00:36:11.992
That's what I hear.

00:36:12.032 --> 00:36:20.987
Dan said that that was, you know, kind of, they got the idea or, you know, the, uh, The idea of doing a band, you know, from sitting in with us, but there were such music lovers.

00:36:21.086 --> 00:36:27.657
And I think Belushi had a little bar, a little private bar in Chicago where we would go after our concerts there.

00:36:28.179 --> 00:36:32.085
You know, he would just open it up for us and whatever, you know, guests we had.

00:36:32.126 --> 00:36:40.922
And we would just play, which really was, Willie was really keen on is after a concert, we'd go find a club or something like that, just to jam.

00:36:41.601 --> 00:36:46.768
And so we spent a lot of time with John Belushi and Danny Aykroyd just playing some blues.

00:36:47.509 --> 00:36:49.791
And he gave Willie a chance to really stretch out too.

00:36:50.353 --> 00:36:51.114
Yeah, it's interesting.

00:36:51.134 --> 00:36:54.597
I was, well, the Blues Brothers, I liked those a lot when I was younger.

00:36:54.657 --> 00:37:01.387
And, you know, they helped get a lot of interest in the blues music for people who, I mean, I was into blues then, but when they came along, they were great.

00:37:01.447 --> 00:37:05.210
And Danny Aykroyd is a pretty good harmonica player, certainly did a good job.

00:37:05.492 --> 00:37:06.974
Was he playing harmonica at that point?

00:37:07.650 --> 00:37:11.596
I don't think he was playing the harmonica that much.

00:37:12.117 --> 00:37:14.601
I remember having a night out in New York with Butterfield.

00:37:15.202 --> 00:37:21.693
We all went to the Hard Rock after our show and Danny was there and we tried to get him to play, but he wouldn't play.

00:37:21.992 --> 00:37:25.918
But yeah, he can definitely hold his own, you know, on the harmonica.

00:37:26.500 --> 00:37:32.429
So you think he, so did he start learning harmonica really for the sort of Blues Brothers act that they started doing on Saturday Night Live?

00:37:32.706 --> 00:37:34.807
Yeah, I think he probably took it a little more serious then.

00:37:34.847 --> 00:37:37.871
I mean, I'm sure he was playing for a while before all that.

00:37:38.311 --> 00:37:40.355
But this was also an outlet for him.

00:37:40.655 --> 00:37:45.119
And he might have played a little bit when we were jamming at the Lone Star Cafe.

00:37:46.021 --> 00:37:47.663
You obviously live in Nashville now.

00:37:47.762 --> 00:37:49.666
So at what point did you move to Nashville?

00:37:49.726 --> 00:37:51.708
Any particular involvement?

00:37:51.748 --> 00:37:54.331
Was it for the music scene particularly that you moved across to there?

00:37:54.992 --> 00:37:56.112
No, I was in L.A.

00:37:56.193 --> 00:37:56.994
for a while.

00:37:57.594 --> 00:38:00.318
And the 96 earthquake happened.

00:38:00.898 --> 00:38:02.599
and kind of got my attention.

00:38:03.001 --> 00:38:05.123
And I thought, okay, it's time to make a change.

00:38:06.184 --> 00:38:14.617
And as soon as the airport opened a couple of days after the earthquake, I flew to Nashville to find a place here and moved.

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:24.030
It was either going to be L.A., New York, or Nashville because I wanted to be by some kind of studio scene, and Nashville was the obvious choice.

00:38:24.690 --> 00:38:29.478
I really hadn't spent that much time here other than just coming with Willie and playing or recording.

00:38:29.793 --> 00:38:32.938
But it was a great move, and I'm glad I did.

00:38:32.998 --> 00:38:34.460
So I came here in 96.

00:38:36.021 --> 00:38:38.644
Yeah, I think you're the third Nashville resident to have on here.

00:38:38.764 --> 00:38:42.048
I had Charlie McCoy, of course, and Petey Gazelle also lives in Nashville.

00:38:42.068 --> 00:38:43.811
So yeah, it's obviously a music town.

00:38:44.972 --> 00:38:45.893
And Charlie's great.

00:38:45.954 --> 00:38:51.539
I mean, Charlie's been so supportive of me and other harmonica players when they're starting out.

00:38:51.940 --> 00:38:56.266
And I even got to play on one of his records, which was quite exciting.

00:38:56.947 --> 00:38:59.329
He did a cover of City of New Orleans.

00:38:59.713 --> 00:39:03.780
And I do this train rhythm that I actually picked up from Donnie Brooks.

00:39:19.827 --> 00:39:25.438
And so he wanted me to play it while he took, you know, the solo, you know, because he does those instrumentals.

00:39:25.922 --> 00:39:31.349
He took the solo, and then he let me play, let me fill one verse, which was very gracious of him.

00:39:32.369 --> 00:39:38.436
But, you know, it's a little scary being in the studio with him, playing, you know, with him listening.

00:39:39.699 --> 00:39:44.403
But I tell you, I watched every move he made when he played, too, how he worked the microphone.

00:39:44.804 --> 00:39:47.126
You know, I was trying to make a big deal of it, but he just plays.

00:39:47.487 --> 00:39:52.293
It's not rocket science, you know, but he's such a good player and such a natural.

00:39:52.898 --> 00:39:58.123
how close he was to the mic, how he stood, how he held it in his hands.

00:39:59.344 --> 00:40:00.465
Do you do any teaching at all?

00:40:00.505 --> 00:40:05.409
I've seen that you've got some involvement with this kind of harmonica for lung health.

00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:07.251
Is that something you've been involved with?

00:40:07.612 --> 00:40:09.012
Well, we started doing that.

00:40:09.112 --> 00:40:11.014
It never really amounted to much.

00:40:11.074 --> 00:40:28.992
We thought, I was working with some guys at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, because they thought that maybe the harmonica would be good for breathing to strengthen the I mean, the in and out, exhale and inhale would help strengthen the lungs for COPD patients.

00:40:29.612 --> 00:40:30.355
We know it does.

00:40:30.434 --> 00:40:36.244
I mean, it helps patients, but we didn't get the scientific proof, you know, the actual hard data.

00:40:36.784 --> 00:40:42.753
So it's still kind of in the works, but I'm not really doing anything yet.

00:40:43.394 --> 00:40:47.141
And when I do, it'll be just more of a cheerleader or motivator.

00:40:47.221 --> 00:40:48.182
I'm not a teacher.

00:40:48.202 --> 00:40:50.186
I don't know enough to teach.

00:40:50.690 --> 00:40:52.413
I'm not patient enough to teach.

00:40:53.195 --> 00:40:56.501
What I can teach you is when not to play, not what to play.

00:40:56.902 --> 00:40:59.067
So I think that's my strong point.

00:40:59.086 --> 00:41:00.990
So I would never try to teach.

00:41:01.050 --> 00:41:09.288
There's so much great stuff online with, you know, Dennis Grueling or, I mean, there's so many, Jason Ritchie.

00:41:09.668 --> 00:41:12.414
I mean, there's so many great teachers out there.

00:41:13.057 --> 00:41:19.407
Going back to the country style of harmonica, which obviously you're synonymous with now, although you do play lots of different styles.

00:41:19.487 --> 00:41:22.512
Anything particularly about the country style?

00:41:22.532 --> 00:41:24.896
Are you using a particular scale?

00:41:24.976 --> 00:41:26.518
Are you using a pentatonic scale?

00:41:26.717 --> 00:41:29.262
What's your approach to playing country harmonica?

00:41:29.842 --> 00:41:32.827
I use a diatonic harmonica.

00:41:33.447 --> 00:41:35.751
I just approach it melodically.

00:41:35.831 --> 00:41:38.271
I try to stay close to the melody.

00:41:38.371 --> 00:41:39.693
Try to complement the melody.

00:41:39.974 --> 00:41:40.715
Keep it simple.

00:41:40.936 --> 00:41:43.222
Willie always stressed, less is more.

00:41:44.003 --> 00:41:52.400
You have to read the song, and it's just kind of, you have to play what fits the song, not throw out every lick that you know for the tune.

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:56.889
I mean, sometimes it might just be one or two notes that just add some coloring.

00:41:57.771 --> 00:42:00.913
Yeah, it's interesting, and Excellent advice for people listening.

00:42:00.972 --> 00:42:06.663
I think, you know, the harmonic is an instrument where you feel, you know, you do have to play, you know, you have to have some wow solo.

00:42:06.722 --> 00:42:15.978
But like you were saying there, you know, the approaches serve you so well is, you know, making it fit with the song, you know, making it melodic, you know, and not kind of going for wow solos all the time.

00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:18.063
Is that, you know, definitely how you've approached it?

00:42:18.443 --> 00:42:20.327
Yeah, and especially if it's asked for.

00:42:20.347 --> 00:42:23.331
I mean, I played on Miley Cruz smoking in the boys' room.

00:42:39.681 --> 00:42:41.364
And that's kind of an aggressive solo.

00:42:41.684 --> 00:42:52.257
But then also on Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain, I played the echo harp, that double reed harp that Hohner makes that's like the notes are tuned in octaves.

00:42:52.838 --> 00:42:54.541
It sounds almost like a concertina.

00:42:55.181 --> 00:43:00.027
So harmonica solo is not going to fit on Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain.

00:43:00.548 --> 00:43:04.213
They really just want or I only heard the harmonica as a pad.

00:43:04.577 --> 00:43:09.844
to just laying under the vocal or under Willie's guitar, and it's very, very sparse.

00:43:10.503 --> 00:43:13.887
And when you're playing, what position are you normally playing in?

00:43:14.688 --> 00:43:20.534
Mostly second position, but a little third position, and I'm just kind of experimenting with first too now.

00:43:20.675 --> 00:43:23.398
It's kind of just for a pad.

00:43:23.438 --> 00:43:26.742
I mean, I'm not playing the Jimmy Reed kind of first position.

00:43:27.222 --> 00:43:37.766
I'm really liking a few things in first position because I've been working on a couple of movie scores and doing cues, And these cues are maybe no more than 30 seconds long.

00:43:38.166 --> 00:43:39.668
And there's dialogue over them.

00:43:39.788 --> 00:43:46.635
So you've got to kind of have to play between the words and just they want the harmonica for coloring, not solos.

00:43:47.476 --> 00:43:51.018
So when you're playing, you say predominantly you probably played second position, but a third.

00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.682
Are you playing country tuning there to get that major seventh?

00:43:55.063 --> 00:43:57.626
No, I'm playing just the regular diatonics.

00:43:57.646 --> 00:44:01.230
I mean, if I need to, I mean, I have a set of country tuned harps.

00:44:01.634 --> 00:44:05.920
But mostly I'll just play the regular diatonic setup.

00:44:07.302 --> 00:44:09.125
And what about chromatic harmonica?

00:44:09.264 --> 00:44:14.132
I believe you're playing a bit of chromatic harmonica on this Sinatra album that Willie Nelson is recording at the moment.

00:44:14.813 --> 00:44:18.458
Very little, very little chromatic.

00:44:18.498 --> 00:44:24.867
But yes, the solo I had to write out on one of the songs that the chromatic really fit well.

00:44:25.507 --> 00:44:35.972
And Matt Rollins, who is co-producing the Sinatra record, There are certain things, because I have strings, he orchestrated the strings, there are certain lines that he wanted specifically.

00:44:36.492 --> 00:44:42.458
So he wrote them out, and they just fit better and play better on a chromatic.

00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:44.940
So have you played much chromatic before?

00:44:45.041 --> 00:44:46.623
Are you quite familiar?

00:44:47.123 --> 00:44:47.923
No, not at all.

00:44:47.943 --> 00:44:48.844
I haven't.

00:44:49.025 --> 00:44:55.612
There's one song, the live show with Willie, that I play chromatic, but it's in the key of G, and I use a C chromatic.

00:44:56.253 --> 00:45:03.559
And I'm not a great reader, I play it if I need to, and if the piece is written out and I have time to learn it beforehand.

00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:07.708
I would never say that I was a chromatic player, but it's part of my arsenal.

00:45:07.728 --> 00:45:12.998
It's just like bass harmonica, which I've played on a lot of stuff, but I'm not so prolific.

00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:21.853
Yeah, so when you choose the chromatic, is that then for the sound of the chromatic, or is it more to get all the notes that you need to play the written part?

00:45:22.306 --> 00:45:28.273
Both, if the notes aren't on the diatonic harmonica, I'll go to a chromatic, but I also like the tone.

00:45:28.673 --> 00:45:39.786
So if the song, you know, if it's maybe a horn line or something I want to play, then have the, you know, the harmonica really, you know, kind of stand out as such a different tone.

00:45:40.188 --> 00:45:40.889
You know, so it's both.

00:45:41.228 --> 00:45:44.652
It's for tone and just versatility of the chromatic.

00:45:45.715 --> 00:45:47.376
And you mentioned the bass harmonica there.

00:45:47.396 --> 00:45:48.378
Yes, I think you play...

00:45:48.641 --> 00:45:51.387
I've seen quite a lot of credits with bass harmonica with you.

00:45:51.568 --> 00:45:53.693
It seems to be quite a popular choice for you.

00:45:53.833 --> 00:45:54.253
Yeah.

00:45:54.835 --> 00:45:56.398
Some people really like it.

00:45:56.438 --> 00:46:01.891
Some producers, you know, and they'll have a specific idea where they want the bass harmonica.

00:46:02.452 --> 00:46:07.282
On the Emmylou Harris and Rodney Crowe song called Bluebird Wine.

00:46:08.686 --> 00:46:08.766
Yeah.

00:46:22.498 --> 00:46:25.440
I played just a rhythm thing on bass harmonica.

00:46:25.762 --> 00:46:33.449
And I got to tell you, I did take a couple of lessons from Rob Paparazzi, and he's such a brilliant player.

00:46:33.911 --> 00:46:38.315
And in one lesson, he gave me enough stuff to learn for the rest of my life, really.

00:46:39.376 --> 00:46:41.159
This is on the bass harmonica, is it?

00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:42.139
No, it's on chromatic.

00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:43.802
Yeah, and he does teach.

00:46:44.461 --> 00:46:47.525
He's a great source of knowledge.

00:46:48.418 --> 00:46:53.864
I helped organize a chromatic weekend here in the UK in July, and Rob was one of the teachers on that.

00:46:54.146 --> 00:46:54.706
Yeah, no, Rob.

00:46:54.766 --> 00:46:58.050
And Rob writes for the Harmonica magazine in the UK as well, who he did do.

00:46:58.871 --> 00:47:00.074
Yeah, yes, Rob's a great guy.

00:47:00.655 --> 00:47:02.016
And of course, the Blues Brothers link too.

00:47:02.096 --> 00:47:04.820
Joe comes over a lot, doesn't he?

00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:06.742
Joe Flisco comes over, yeah.

00:47:07.603 --> 00:47:08.324
He's brilliant.

00:47:08.344 --> 00:47:16.094
He's really customized my harmonica, you know, does my custom harmonicas, and I've been playing his harps, Toner harps, for a while.

00:47:16.496 --> 00:47:17.016
So I'm

00:47:17.036 --> 00:47:17.777
a big fan of his.

00:47:18.498 --> 00:47:19.918
Are you still using those?

00:47:20.739 --> 00:47:21.079
I am.

00:47:21.621 --> 00:47:23.181
Everyone seems to use his harps.

00:47:23.222 --> 00:47:25.143
He's got some magic with those harps, doesn't he?

00:47:25.724 --> 00:47:26.465
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:26.485 --> 00:47:26.905
I mean, I had

00:47:26.945 --> 00:47:27.206
some.

00:47:27.706 --> 00:47:29.748
Actually, Donny Brooks turned me on to him.

00:47:29.969 --> 00:47:31.771
I don't know how long, 20 years maybe.

00:47:32.231 --> 00:47:35.153
As long as he's been doing it, I've been using his harmonicas.

00:47:35.494 --> 00:47:41.019
The question I ask each time, Mickey, is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

00:47:41.380 --> 00:47:44.483
You know, I would put on a record.

00:47:44.543 --> 00:47:47.606
I put on Jimmy Reed the other day.

00:47:48.034 --> 00:47:51.898
or Jimmy Reed and Big Walter Horton.

00:47:51.978 --> 00:47:55.681
There were a couple albums I liked and just play along because we're not playing that.

00:47:55.722 --> 00:47:56.864
We're not touring right now.

00:47:56.943 --> 00:47:58.565
So I've just got to keep my chops up.

00:47:59.005 --> 00:48:05.052
And even though I don't play the blues in my day job, you know, it's a great exercise and it's great.

00:48:05.233 --> 00:48:07.554
You know, it's just, you know, fun stuff to play.

00:48:07.594 --> 00:48:11.059
So those were actually the last two records that I played on.

00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:17.226
Oh, and Traveler and the Chris Stapleton record because I've kind of, you know, we'll tour next year with him.

00:48:17.666 --> 00:48:21.612
And I've got to kind of remember what we're doing, you know, when I played on the record.

00:48:22.052 --> 00:48:28.322
Yeah, so playing along with those records, as you say, keeping those muscles toned for playing and everything, yeah.

00:48:28.382 --> 00:48:31.967
Lots of ways that people learn, don't they, by playing along with records is one of the...

00:48:31.987 --> 00:48:38.817
And Marcellus, the Ray Charles record is fun to play too because the solos stretch out a little more on that.

00:48:38.898 --> 00:48:40.440
So that's good exercise.

00:48:41.061 --> 00:48:42.663
Turning to talking about gear now.

00:48:42.722 --> 00:48:47.230
So your favorite harmonica of choice is the Marine Band, yeah?

00:48:47.585 --> 00:48:51.753
Yeah, the Marine Band or anything, you know, Hunter's come up with some great stuff.

00:48:51.813 --> 00:48:56.219
I love to record with the Rocket, which I use some live too, but I like the Marine Bands.

00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:59.445
I like the wooden combs, you know, or some of the custom combs.

00:48:59.885 --> 00:49:04.594
I basically started out playing the Marine Band, so that's what I gravitate to.

00:49:05.835 --> 00:49:08.159
Which flavor of the Marine Band do you use these days?

00:49:08.900 --> 00:49:14.530
You know, just the old, the 1896 or the Marine Band Deluxe or...

00:49:14.914 --> 00:49:15.655
What's the other one?

00:49:15.855 --> 00:49:16.356
Crossover.

00:49:16.396 --> 00:49:17.438
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:17.498 --> 00:49:18.940
Anything with a wooden comb, I love.

00:49:19.641 --> 00:49:21.164
Rocket is a great sounding harp too.

00:49:21.523 --> 00:49:24.148
And that's kind of an upgraded version of the Special 20.

00:49:24.809 --> 00:49:26.692
Yeah, I have a Rocket and I really love it.

00:49:26.771 --> 00:49:30.978
And I don't usually, a bit like yourself, I sort of prefer the wooden combs, but I really love the Rocket.

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:32.460
So it's sort of bigger holes, isn't it?

00:49:32.501 --> 00:49:35.425
It's quite loud and aggressive sort of sounding.

00:49:35.445 --> 00:49:35.806
It's great.

00:49:35.847 --> 00:49:36.206
Yeah,

00:49:36.387 --> 00:49:37.389
they record really well.

00:49:37.528 --> 00:49:39.813
And, you know, I like to take that into the studio.

00:49:40.653 --> 00:49:43.038
And do you have a favorite key of diatonic?

00:49:43.329 --> 00:49:46.273
You know, I like playing a B-flat harp.

00:49:46.373 --> 00:49:50.518
I don't get to play, so that would put me in F.

00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:58.329
I don't get to use it that much, but it seems to, I love using that harmonica.

00:49:58.568 --> 00:50:02.614
And A, the key of A, so that would be a D harmonica.

00:50:03.275 --> 00:50:14.407
Yeah, I noticed a few of your records I was playing with, there was a few on D harmonicas, Yeah, B-flats and A are the popular choices, answers to that question for sure.

00:50:15.088 --> 00:50:16.731
That range is great, isn't it?

00:50:17.112 --> 00:50:18.554
And what about different tunings?

00:50:18.735 --> 00:50:23.782
We've talked a little bit about you've got some country tunings and do you use other tunings?

00:50:24.684 --> 00:50:26.307
Yeah, I've always used the country tuning.

00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:29.492
I like the natural minor tunings.

00:50:30.054 --> 00:50:32.197
You know, I love, Lee Oscar's a friend of mine.

00:50:32.449 --> 00:50:34.954
And even though I'm a honer, see, I love his tunings.

00:50:35.175 --> 00:50:39.121
I think he was the first one to come up with those natural minor tunings, I think.

00:50:39.481 --> 00:50:41.746
You know, I think he makes a great harmonica, but I love that.

00:50:41.987 --> 00:50:43.949
You know, I love what I started playing on.

00:50:44.170 --> 00:50:46.094
You know, I love the old school stuff.

00:50:46.134 --> 00:50:48.657
And I picked up, you know, like the Asia Band.

00:50:48.717 --> 00:50:49.940
Are you familiar with that one?

00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:51.983
Yeah, from Brendan.

00:50:52.103 --> 00:50:53.606
Brendan Power, yeah.

00:50:53.666 --> 00:50:54.467
Yeah, Brendan, anything.

00:50:54.708 --> 00:50:57.554
I love, you know, supporting the guys that are...

00:50:57.793 --> 00:51:01.141
just creating these off-brand things too.

00:51:01.422 --> 00:51:08.378
I've been loyal to Hohner, but I like to check everything out, everybody out.

00:51:08.478 --> 00:51:11.284
I had Lee Oscar on the podcast, and yeah, he was great, wasn't he?

00:51:11.344 --> 00:51:12.547
So innovative with what he did.

00:51:12.588 --> 00:51:16.958
He really did push the boundaries of the harmonica and really sort of opened up that idea of different tunings, didn't he?

00:51:17.409 --> 00:51:17.690
Yep.

00:51:17.710 --> 00:51:21.313
And so I still use some of his in my, you know, my road kit.

00:51:21.755 --> 00:51:25.097
But, you know, Hohner will tune harmonicas for me any way I want.

00:51:25.137 --> 00:51:26.820
But I've got a couple of these.

00:51:27.340 --> 00:51:31.264
Like when I play Georgia, I use a natural minor tuning.

00:51:31.565 --> 00:51:32.445
Yeah.

00:51:32.706 --> 00:51:33.867
I should get that major seven.

00:51:33.887 --> 00:51:37.492
So I could probably use a, you know, a country tune harmonica.

00:51:37.512 --> 00:51:42.797
But again, I was using Lee's harmonicas way back.

00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:47.994
I just got kind of a sample of the pentatonic tuning that that honer is doing.

00:51:48.175 --> 00:51:53.340
They're doing one with a pentatonic scale to try to appeal, I think, to guitar players, which I am not.

00:51:53.922 --> 00:51:57.945
So I've just been kind of messing around with it to see.

00:51:59.228 --> 00:52:02.510
I haven't recorded with it yet because I've really just got a test.

00:52:02.550 --> 00:52:04.614
So just kind of testing out the idea.

00:52:05.054 --> 00:52:08.438
But, you know, I like the natural minor tunings.

00:52:08.802 --> 00:52:12.045
And the country tunings, I think, are my favorite.

00:52:12.527 --> 00:52:13.068
And do you use

00:52:13.128 --> 00:52:14.148
any overblows?

00:52:15.010 --> 00:52:16.092
No, I really don't.

00:52:16.592 --> 00:52:19.476
Well, hence the reason you turn to chromatic when you need it, too.

00:52:20.097 --> 00:52:21.659
And what embouchure do you use?

00:52:22.179 --> 00:52:22.541
Pucker.

00:52:22.681 --> 00:52:31.432
I mean, I do a little tongue blocking, but if I'm playing single notes, I'll just pucker style or something, or not the tongue blocking.

00:52:31.713 --> 00:52:34.757
If I'm playing octaves, I'll definitely use the tongue blocking.

00:52:35.713 --> 00:52:38.478
And talking about equipment now, what about amplifiers?

00:52:38.518 --> 00:52:40.181
What's your amplifier of choice?

00:52:40.501 --> 00:52:45.688
I don't, you know, I love Fender amps, but I really don't play using amp on.

00:52:45.768 --> 00:52:48.092
I have an amp on stage, but it's not mic'd.

00:52:48.193 --> 00:52:49.193
It's really just for me.

00:52:49.233 --> 00:52:56.905
But what I do use, I use a ribbon, a Beyer M160 ribbon that actually Lee Oscar turned me on to.

00:52:57.106 --> 00:53:03.394
And I go to an AEA mic pre for the ribbon and then directly into the PA.

00:53:04.036 --> 00:53:10.581
But out of that pre, I'll take a line out of it and go into an amp on stage, but it's really just for me.

00:53:10.682 --> 00:53:15.670
But what you hear in the room, really just the Beyer M160 through a pre.

00:53:16.693 --> 00:53:28.753
And then as far as effects, with Stapleton, I'll use one of these Amog, kind of an overdrive and delay unit that's just like a stomp box.

00:53:29.052 --> 00:53:31.938
I just put a little delay on the harp.

00:53:32.418 --> 00:53:35.505
And a little of the overdrive signal.

00:53:36.246 --> 00:53:42.119
But mostly my sound is just, you know, I love just being able to walk up to any mic and being able to play acoustically.

00:53:42.541 --> 00:53:44.746
But I wanted the mobility of moving around the stage.

00:53:44.846 --> 00:53:48.673
So I'll use a handheld mic, but I'll use a nice ribbon.

00:53:49.135 --> 00:53:50.057
I use that at a buyer.

00:53:51.393 --> 00:53:53.838
Yeah, it's interesting you should say about the M160.

00:53:53.878 --> 00:53:58.346
So I've always done a little bit of home recording, but this year I've really got into doing more.

00:53:58.385 --> 00:54:00.489
And I want to buy the M160.

00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:02.934
That's kind of on my ribbon list.

00:54:03.014 --> 00:54:05.438
So I'm very interested in getting that.

00:54:05.458 --> 00:54:08.184
So that one is the one for the harmonica, is it the M160?

00:54:08.945 --> 00:54:09.565
Well, no, it's not.

00:54:09.858 --> 00:54:10.840
Made for a harmonica.

00:54:10.900 --> 00:54:12.702
I think it's made for, they use it for kick drum.

00:54:12.742 --> 00:54:13.483
Yeah, but I love it.

00:54:13.804 --> 00:54:15.266
It's very consistent.

00:54:15.626 --> 00:54:21.577
As fragile as ribbons are, I've dropped mine so many times and it's still sounding good after maybe 10 years.

00:54:22.318 --> 00:54:23.599
Yeah, no, I've heard it works.

00:54:23.619 --> 00:54:27.766
I mean, I know it's not built for harmonica, but it works well with a harmonica because it sort of takes that high edge off, doesn't it?

00:54:27.786 --> 00:54:28.987
It has a nice warm sound to it.

00:54:29.007 --> 00:54:32.554
I haven't actually tried one, but yeah, I'm interested to get one of those at some point soon.

00:54:32.914 --> 00:54:37.501
For my recording rig, I use a Royer 122, which is also a ribbon.

00:54:38.114 --> 00:54:59.099
so yeah so as you say though so you're you're basically going for a clean sound you're playing through a PA you're using acoustic uh you know style microphones uh straight into the PA yeah with a little bit of effects as you say right I mean what about uh if you are playing a sort of a more bluesy tune or you want a blues a blues sound do you have any you know tube amps that you use at all

00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:12.409
yeah I've got a you know a Fender a Princeton a Champ Fender's just come out with a really nice, it's actually a Chris Stapleton model.

00:55:13.210 --> 00:55:17.719
I can't remember if it's a Princeton or what it is, but it's, you know, I like any small Fender amp.

00:55:18.219 --> 00:55:21.045
And if I was in a big lab, I'd use a Vox

00:55:21.365 --> 00:55:22.228
AC30.

00:55:23.329 --> 00:55:27.297
When you've got a concert then, would you normally have a tube amp to use on maybe one or two songs?

00:55:27.650 --> 00:55:32.639
No, because I haven't really had the need for any of the bands that I play with.

00:55:32.860 --> 00:55:40.215
I'm still just going through the PA because I'm getting a nice fat sound through the mic pre, through the AEA mic pre.

00:55:40.514 --> 00:55:40.715
Great.

00:55:40.916 --> 00:55:43.902
So final question then, what's your future plans now?

00:55:43.922 --> 00:55:45.664
Obviously, we're still in pandemic time.

00:55:45.704 --> 00:55:50.074
You're still hoping to get out touring next year and plenty lined up by the sounds of it?

00:55:50.498 --> 00:55:50.998
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:54.983
We've got a bunch of dates with Willie and a bunch of dates with Stapleton.

00:55:55.384 --> 00:55:56.565
Hopefully more records.

00:55:56.585 --> 00:55:59.268
I mean, we've got two records that are unfinished with Willie.

00:55:59.688 --> 00:56:02.572
I'm working on a film score right now.

00:56:02.833 --> 00:56:07.858
So, you know, I'm semi-busy and enjoying just being home for a change.

00:56:09.021 --> 00:56:09.260
Yeah.

00:56:09.762 --> 00:56:12.704
So when is your touring schedule due to start at this point?

00:56:13.365 --> 00:56:14.907
You know, guessing.

00:56:15.027 --> 00:56:19.773
I mean, we've got a couple of dates that are tentative in March, but we'll just have to see how the pandemic goes.

00:56:19.905 --> 00:56:21.047
goes, what's going on.

00:56:21.467 --> 00:56:23.250
You know, we want to keep Willie safe, so.

00:56:23.931 --> 00:56:24.650
Yeah, sure, yeah.

00:56:25.411 --> 00:56:27.034
But hopefully you can get those going again.

00:56:27.074 --> 00:56:30.097
Are you, any plans to come over to Europe next year or anytime soon?

00:56:30.878 --> 00:56:31.900
Not that I know of yet.

00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:37.065
You know, that's a hard trip for Willie and Willie's 88, Bobby is going to be 90 this year.

00:56:37.746 --> 00:56:38.007
Wow.

00:56:38.487 --> 00:56:39.007
We'll see.

00:56:39.327 --> 00:56:44.074
I mean, maybe we can just shoot over to the UK and just, you know, play and not do all of Europe.

00:56:44.554 --> 00:56:47.717
But there's no plans right now that I've heard of.

00:56:48.193 --> 00:56:49.355
Well, hopefully you get over it.

00:56:49.394 --> 00:56:50.396
I'll come and see you for sure.

00:56:50.416 --> 00:56:52.697
So thanks very much for speaking to me today.

00:56:52.737 --> 00:56:53.278
Real pleasure.

00:56:53.878 --> 00:56:55.121
Thank you very much for having me.

00:56:55.141 --> 00:56:55.601
It was fun.

00:56:56.722 --> 00:56:58.023
That's it for today, folks.

00:56:58.384 --> 00:57:06.110
Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose-built for the harmonica.

00:57:06.451 --> 00:57:07.972
Be sure to check out their website.

00:57:10.715 --> 00:57:14.980
Mickey, take us out with some of that sweet, natural minor harmonica.

00:57:51.458 --> 00:57:52.541
Georgia.