July 22, 2020

Gregoire Maret interview

Gregoire Maret interview
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Season 1 Chromatic Harmonica Jazz Chromatic Pop Harmonica Session Musician

Gregoire Maret is a chromatic player, originally from Switzerland. After studying jazz at the New School in New York, Gregoire went on to play with some of the biggest names in jazz: from Jimmy Scott to Cassandra Wilson, Pat Metheny and Herbie Hancock. Although he can also turn his hand to other genres, such as pop, funk and even opera!
In 2012 Gregoire made the first of the albums under his own name, as well as continuing to be an in-demand sideman.
Renowned bassist, Marcus Miller, said that Gregoire is "carrying the chromatic harmonica into the 21st century with prowess, passion, and creativity."

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Gregoire's website:
https://www.gregoiremaret.com

YouTube videos:
Gregoire's YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbwRBejM2dWGlEwCfmUZbWw

Playing with Toots Thielemans:
https://youtu.be/xLB74o-Gu6E


Gear:
Schertler amps:
https://secure.schertler.com/en_IT/shop/amplifiers

Earthworks SR314 microphone:
https://earthworksaudio.com/instrument/

Zoom AX1 multi-effect processor:
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/effects-preamps/acoustic/zoom-a1-four-a1x-four-multi-effects-processors


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:29 - Gregoire’s Swiss roots and musicians in family

04:40 - Singing and other instruments

05:48 - Started playing harmonica

06:09 - Played diatonic first

06:20 - What started Gregoire playing chromatic

07:38 - Gregoire’s advice for people interested in switching from diatonic to chromatic

10:47 - Improvisation

11:30 - Moved to New York and started getting a name for himself

15:29 - Advice from Toots

15:46 - Playing with Jimmy Scott

17:56 - Playing with Jack Terrasson

18:32 - Cookie album with Meshell Ndegecollo

19:35 - Playing with Pat Metheny and winning Grammy

20:27 - Scenarios album with Andy Milne

22:30 - Playing with Herbie Hancock

24:52 - Playing with Elton John and Sting

25:24 - Gregoire becomes bandleader, making first album under own name

29:25 - Composing

30:39 - Wanted album

32:59 - Harp vs Harp album

34:52 - Another album with Pat Metheny

35:22 - Americana album

39:24 - Difference being a bandleader and a sideman

40:51 - Documentary made about Gregoire called ‘Sideman’

42:02 - Performed in an opera

43:30 - When first met Toots Thielemans

46:44 - 10 min question

50:35 - Gregoire Maret G48 Signature harmonica by Suzuki

53:59 - Which Chromatic does Gregoire play

54:28 - Different tunings

54:43 - Diatonic harmonica

54:51 - Embouchre

55:02 - Amps

55:24 - Mics

56:52 - Effects pedals

57:49 - Future plans

WEBVTT

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Hi, Neil Warren here again and welcome to another episode of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast with more interviews with some of the finest harmonica players around today.

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Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and also check out the Spotify playlist where some of the tracks discussed during the interviews can be heard.

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you want lone wolf Chromatic player Gregoire Moray joins me today.

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After studying jazz at the New School in New York, Gregoire went on to play with some of the biggest names in jazz, from Jimmy Scott to Cassandra Wilson, Pat Matheny and Herbie Hancock.

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In 2012, Gregoire made the first of the albums under his own name, as well as continuing to be an in-demand sideman.

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Hello, Greg Walmare, and welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you.

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Firstly, we'll talk a bit about your background.

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You're originally from Switzerland, and you grew up just outside Geneva.

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Exactly, in a little town called Chancy, which is the last village before the border to

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France.

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So you're French-speaking.

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French-speaking.

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So I had a friend from Switzerland and you guys speak five languages or something, don't you?

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Incredible in Switzerland.

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Really three.

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And then there's one dialect that very few people do speak.

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So we speak French, Italian and German.

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And of course, we do speak English.

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There's another dialect called Romance, which very few people do speak in the part of

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Switzerland called the Grison.

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A lot of people met that comparison between languages and music.

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What do you think about that?

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Is there anything in that?

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I actually compare more music to

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mathematics.

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I feel there's some, and I think there's a lot of connection to that.

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I do believe that music is sort of the international language in a sense.

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It's one of those things that we all relate to and have some kind of emotional connection to, and it's easy to just get into a world and kind of having a great with either a group of people or just another musician.

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And it can be being part of the audience or the fellow musicians sharing the stage with somebody else.

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So that's, yeah,

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that's real special.

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And so you've got a Swiss father and an American mother.

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Yeah, my

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mother was born and raised in New York, my father in Switzerland, Geneva.

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And your father was a jazz musician.

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I think that's what got you first interested in music from a young age.

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Yeah, I mean, still is really.

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I mean, he retired because he's a doctor.

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He was a doctor, but he's still playing music.

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My brother's a musician as well, and he's also a pilot.

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He's flying planes.

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So we all are musicians in the family.

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What instrument did your father play?

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He played banjo.

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He still does.

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And my brother plays a vibraphone and percussions.

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Your father was a jazz banjo player, was he?

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Yeah, but more traditional jazz, more like the early New Orleans style of music.

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And my brother played more modern as well as kind of traditional, more towards the

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modern part of jazz.

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And so what was the music scene like around Geneva?

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Was that something you could draw on?

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I mean, as a young musician and a student, it was good.

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Thanks to my father, I met a lot of musicians early on.

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And then as I went to high school, I met more people.

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And then I became really serious about music.

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So that's when I met a lot more musicians.

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Some of them were very, very good teachers and really gave me great advice.

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After that, I had to go.

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I had to find something and somewhere else to try to grow.

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And that's what actually some of my best teachers told me.

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They were like, listen, you're young.

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You should just try to see what's going on out there, especially in New York.

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And then you can always come back.

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You'll see, you'll decide.

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And that's what I did.

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I went to study.

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I came here in New York to study and I never left, basically.

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Started having opportunities here, playing with like West African musicians and Latino musicians like Tito Puente, Patato Valdez.

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And then eventually I just decided to stay because there was just a

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whole lot going on and I started working here.

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So you started playing the harmonica relatively late at the age of 17, yeah?

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So were you playing other instruments until that age?

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I actually started as a kid to sing very early.

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I only stopped singing when my voice changed.

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Thanks to that, I started really having good ears.

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I could really kind of hear just about anything.

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And when I picked up the harmonica a bit later, it was not easy, but it I moved kind of quickly through the different stages of playing the instrument because I could hear very, very well.

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And that's something that I developed by singing a lot as a kid.

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And also as a kid, I was playing a little bit of drums and a little bit of guitar.

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But I stopped after two years.

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The teachers I had, I just never felt were connected to the same kind of music I was trying to play.

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Just practicing scales, just to practice single scale was a downer for me, at least, you know, early on.

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I wanted to play tunes and they were all telling me, no, no, you need to practice scales first.

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And I was like, man, okay, I'll practice some scales, but I would love to play something, a melody, you know.

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It wasn't really what they were teaching.

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So I stopped.

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And then eventually when I picked up the harmonica, I just, I was self-taught.

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So I started practicing.

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just playing melodies, blues and stuff like that.

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And it was just exactly what I wanted to play.

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And then eventually I realized that, yeah, I need to learn scales too.

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And then I had an understanding of why I needed to play and practice scales, you know, after

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having learned a couple of tunes.

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And so did you start playing the chromatic first or did you start playing the diatonic first?

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I started to play the diatonic when I was about 15.

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I loved it.

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I never thought I was going to play chromatic.

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I felt actually no connection or to chromatic harmonica.

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My parents gave me one for my birthday and it felt so different.

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It sounded so different.

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I was like, I just left it somewhere and never touched it until when I wanted to change my major in school, in high school.

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I wanted to change from languages to music.

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And the only way they would accept me was if I was picking up a quote-unquote chromatic instrument.

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So I asked them if it was okay for me to play chromatic harmonica and they accepted.

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At the end of the year of training, I had to be able to pass an exam, and I played like a classical piece, a Chopin piece on the chromatic harmonica.

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And then after that, I started playing in an ensemble at school with other young musicians, and they all wanted to play jazz.

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I was like, well, yeah, let's try to play some tunes on jazz, and I'll start playing the chromatic a bit.

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And then I just became completely passionate about trying to play this instrument, and I never went back really to the diatonic harmonica.

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Yeah.

00:07:25.442 --> 00:07:45.259
yeah it's really interesting to say that so you were in a way you were kind of forced to the chromatic yeah you know most harmonica players play the diatonic yeah it's more accessible it's easier to play you know you're kind of in one key and what would you say to people who play the diatonic about maybe you know who might be interested in playing the chromatic some of the advantages of the chromatic

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the first thing that's good if you already are have some skills on the diatonic harmonica is pick up like a regular chromatic and still play the blue like a D minor blues, which is like the standard thing that's done a lot with harmonica players.

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After that, once you feel like good playing that, pick up another key playing the blues, you know, stay with like simple structures like the blues.

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If you, if the person, whoever is the harmonica player is comfortable with that form and start playing in different keys.

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So with the same chromatic harmonica, of course.

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So it's like you started playing in D minor.

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You now can also play kind of in G, in C.

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And then you try to go to F and maybe eventually B flat.

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And you know what I mean?

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And you go to different keys and then start to see what you can do on the harmonica.

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It's going to become more and more challenging as you go to all the 12 keys.

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But it's a really good way to get really familiar with the instrument.

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To do that, it's best to take a really simple form or a simple tune that you're very, very comfortable playing and try to expand playing that in all 12 keys rather than just learn different tunes that are comfortable.

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complex, hard to play and try to accomplish that in keys that are already also challenging.

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And, I mean, what about the different, you know, sort of music you can play between the diatonic and chromatic?

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Obviously, a lot of people are interested in playing blues initially, and that's what gets people interested into the harmonic.

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And then they might expand to start getting interested in other sorts of music.

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And I think that's where the chromatic can come in, can't it?

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Well, you get Brendan Power, you know, who's like the big Irish music connoisseur who plays that very well in the chromatic.

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But you can just play just about anything.

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So...

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I would start with the blues.

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Then you can go into other songs that are relatively simple, certain folk songs, certain country songs, and then pop songs.

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You know, just kind of learn the melody, eventually try to learn the chord changes, and start trying to have an ability to hear what are the notes that are changing through the harmonies so you can kind of play those on the instruments.

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And the good thing is to really always consider keep that same harmonica, chromatic harmonica, maybe like the usual one is to play a C chromatic harmonica.

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And off of that, just try to get into different keys.

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So if you go to F, there's just one flat.

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If you go to G, there's one sharp.

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So it's not too hard.

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Then you go to two sharps with D and two flats with B flat.

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You can also play the relative minor.

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So like G minor, for instance, like Autumn Leaves is played most of the time in G minor.

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And it's a great song to learn because it's a very simple song, simple form.

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You start with the melody, of course, which is simple, and then eventually go with the changes and try to understand how they go and eventually see and hear your way through the song and try to improvise.

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So there's a lot of ways to improvise.

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Somebody like Richie Virack was talking about a lot was motivic development, which is just to take a motif.

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like two notes, three notes, and develop that through the song instead of just playing random ideas that are not connected.

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You want to try to tell a story when you play a song.

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Also, you can also always connect to the melody because it's really all about that melody.

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So you can kind of do variations on the melody.

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That's also a good way to start improvising.

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So you moved across to New York when you were, I think, 19, right?

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Yeah,

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even earlier than that, I think 18, yeah.

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Yeah, so you went to study at the New School in New York, which is that a dedicated jazz school?

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Yeah, it's a good jazz school.

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And it was really great at the time I was there.

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It was a lot of great students and a lot of great

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teachers.

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So New York is kind of the epicenter of the jazz scene these days.

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Is that how you see it?

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Yeah, I mean, there's a lot going on all around the world, you know.

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It used to be where New York was sort of the only place.

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But already, if you look all around the U.S., each town has a sound and a type of music that they really became famous for.

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But then if you look all around the world, there's also some of that in the rest of the world as well.

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So New York is sort of like the place, right?

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But it's not the only place now.

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There's just a lot of players all around.

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And that's the thing that's really exciting is that when I get to travel, I get to meet other musicians from different

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places in the world.

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So you were in, obviously in the school in New York, but you were playing out in New York with your little chromatic harmonica, playing jazz against all these very loud saxophones.

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And so how was that when you were trying to find your way in New York and how was it received as a chromatic harmonica player?

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It was quite challenging, you know, but it was challenging all the way from being in school.

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I was the only chromatic player.

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Some teachers were really excited about having a musician playing the chromatic harmonica.

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Some others just didn't care much.

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And I had to kind of show all of them that I could really play.

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And eventually, the same thing happened being on the scene in New York, like starting to play in different places, sitting in different bands, with different bands, or jamming with different people.

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And I had to really convince...

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people through my playing that I could really be respected as a musician.

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Because eventually, if you really look at it, is that if I play, for instance, with somebody like Pat Metheny, Pat has the choice to hire anybody, not just, of course, harmonica players.

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So if it is going to be a saxophone player, he's going to hire the best.

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So I'm basically in competition with every musician.

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So it's the same thing with Herbie.

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Herbie doesn't hire me just because he needs a harmonica player.

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He hires me because he can really relate to what I'm doing and he feels that I really play the music to the best of what it can be played.

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I'm sure there's people and musicians that have experienced different things.

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A person was really specifically wanting to hire a harmonica player, and that's been most of their career like that, where they just happen to be there and play great and be hired because somebody wanted a harmonica player.

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This is not the case for me.

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For me, the situation was totally different.

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It was people wanted something different, maybe.

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suddenly they just discovered what I was doing and were like, well, this is quite unusual.

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But at the same time, with this unusual instrument and he's just approaching the music the way I want it to be approached.

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You know, I'm excited playing with him because we're always trying to go beyond ourselves playing this music.

00:14:53.157 --> 00:14:54.879
So that's my experience, really.

00:14:55.078 --> 00:15:03.225
But even with vocalists, even when I was playing with Cassandra Wilson or Diane Reeves or, you know, Jimmy Scott, it wasn't just about playing the harmonica.

00:15:03.586 --> 00:15:11.354
It was about the music and the fact that I knew how to approach their music and I could really relate to them as vocalists.

00:15:11.433 --> 00:15:16.500
I could help them and do everything I could to make the music better.

00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:22.405
I do believe that, yeah, if I had played another instrument, I don't think it would have necessarily changed a lot.

00:15:22.525 --> 00:15:28.932
It was really about just my voice, in a sense, that happened to exist with the harmonica.

00:15:29.052 --> 00:15:33.878
That's something I talked to Toots Dillmans a bit, you know, and he actually completely agreed.

00:15:34.097 --> 00:15:35.600
That was his opinion as well.

00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:37.261
That's the way he looked at himself.

00:15:37.302 --> 00:15:40.105
He was like, I'm a musician first, and I happen to play the harmonica.

00:15:40.684 --> 00:15:46.010
So let's talk through some of your great recordings you've done with many different people.

00:15:46.051 --> 00:15:55.740
So I think one of the first people you had success with was Jimmy Scott on the Holding Back the Years album in 98.

00:15:56.142 --> 00:15:59.765
So you started gigging with him around New York.

00:16:23.298 --> 00:16:24.458
It's a beautiful story.

00:16:53.264 --> 00:16:56.086
Maybe they could hire me for a song or two.

00:16:56.447 --> 00:16:59.490
I came and recorded that with Jimmy Scott as well.

00:16:59.692 --> 00:17:05.357
And Jimmy Scott was really excited and he thought that we should stay in touch and eventually maybe play together again.

00:17:05.679 --> 00:17:06.920
And we completely lost touch.

00:17:07.401 --> 00:17:09.583
Eventually, I was able to find him again.

00:17:09.603 --> 00:17:14.970
I went to a concert of his and this time he gave me his number and we kept in touch.

00:17:15.521 --> 00:17:20.926
He eventually invited me to go check out one of his concerts at the Iridium in New York.

00:17:21.227 --> 00:17:22.607
And Jimmy was there at the bar.

00:17:22.928 --> 00:17:25.651
And he looked at me and said, hey, man, where were you yesterday?

00:17:25.691 --> 00:17:26.852
We were waiting for you.

00:17:27.112 --> 00:17:27.932
And he was like, OK.

00:17:28.313 --> 00:17:32.277
I mean, we're about to play in about five minutes.

00:17:32.517 --> 00:17:33.376
Jump on stage, man.

00:17:33.557 --> 00:17:37.641
Basically, what happened, he really wanted to see how I was handling pressure.

00:17:37.961 --> 00:17:39.262
So he put me on the spot.

00:17:39.522 --> 00:17:42.726
And I did well enough that he was like, OK, you got it.

00:17:42.846 --> 00:17:43.605
Come back tomorrow.

00:17:43.926 --> 00:17:44.988
And I came back

00:17:45.028 --> 00:17:45.488
the next day.

00:17:45.488 --> 00:17:46.249
and I had the gig.

00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:50.053
And then you played with him then for five years on and off, yeah?

00:17:50.272 --> 00:17:50.814
Yeah, exactly.

00:17:50.913 --> 00:17:55.959
I played with him for a few years, recorded a few records, learned a lot, learned how to play a ballad.

00:17:56.359 --> 00:18:04.647
And then, yeah, so running through 99, you played on the Jack Terrison album, What Is It?, which is a big success.

00:18:05.469 --> 00:18:11.955
I knew Jackie, of Jackie, I met him actually at the Montreux Jazz Festival maybe a year or two before.

00:18:12.696 --> 00:18:19.459
We didn't really stay in touch much, but eventually he was also trying to expand his trio and do something different.

00:18:19.938 --> 00:18:27.605
He asked me to come and join the band he was putting together, and we toured for about a year together after recording that record.

00:18:28.164 --> 00:18:28.945
We had a great time.

00:18:28.986 --> 00:18:30.086
I mean, also, same thing.

00:18:30.227 --> 00:18:31.407
I learned a lot, and it was great.

00:18:31.667 --> 00:18:41.477
And then in 2002, I'll probably get the name wrong, but did you win the Grammy for the album Cookie by Anthropological Mixtape with...

00:18:42.116 --> 00:18:43.038
Michelle Nogueira.

00:18:43.397 --> 00:18:43.438
I

00:18:43.478 --> 00:18:43.939
don't even know.

00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:47.461
She may have won a Grammy for this record, but I didn't get a Grammy.

00:18:47.541 --> 00:18:49.903
I did get a Grammy with the Pat Metheny group

00:18:49.903 --> 00:18:53.455
That's an interesting, different style of music.

00:19:06.786 --> 00:19:13.692
I mean, she's just this beautiful musician that just explores and finds her own sound.

00:19:13.751 --> 00:19:19.797
It's really hard to categorize what she does, which I think is great.

00:19:20.017 --> 00:19:20.478
It's music.

00:19:20.577 --> 00:19:23.440
And that's how I relate to any sort of music.

00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:25.622
Is it good music or bad music?

00:19:25.741 --> 00:19:29.025
Or is it some music that I connect to that I want to play?

00:19:29.085 --> 00:19:34.309
Or is it music that maybe is good, but I don't feel any emotional connection to?

00:19:34.349 --> 00:20:05.578
Yeah, and then Pat Metheny, you played with him uh and on the uh and then he did win a grammy for sure on the the way up album for best contemporary jazz album in 2006 And then you went on to tour with Pat Muffini for some time as well.

00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.300
So how was that?

00:20:06.961 --> 00:20:07.442
It was great.

00:20:07.643 --> 00:20:08.484
I mean, same thing.

00:20:08.505 --> 00:20:08.965
I learned

00:20:08.986 --> 00:20:14.736
a tremendous amount about music and how to play and what to play and when not to play.

00:20:14.816 --> 00:20:16.640
And it was amazing.

00:20:16.779 --> 00:20:19.885
Yeah, we did about a year of touring nonstop.

00:20:20.006 --> 00:20:23.873
Like I think we stopped for the entire year

00:20:24.273 --> 00:20:24.815
of touring.

00:20:24.974 --> 00:20:26.337
I think we had three weeks off.

00:20:26.786 --> 00:20:40.077
And so then you did an album, the duo with the Sonorios album, 2007 with Andy Milne, a pianist, which again, I think the chromatic and harmonic and piano, there's a lot of great albums like that.

00:20:40.278 --> 00:20:41.999
Obviously Toots did one with Bill Evans.

00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:45.701
So that combination with the piano is really special, isn't it?

00:20:45.903 --> 00:20:53.388
Yeah, I mean, I first started playing with Andy Milne, who's part of the M-Bass movement that was started by Steve Coleman.

00:20:53.709 --> 00:20:56.751
And first I joined Andy Milne's band called Dap Theory.

00:20:56.751 --> 00:21:00.756
but we toured extensively in the U.S., very little in Europe.

00:21:01.136 --> 00:21:10.426
When we were playing, Andy always wanted to take a moment in the set to have just this duo setting, and me and him would just play a song.

00:21:10.507 --> 00:21:12.929
Most of the time, we'd play Con Alma of Dizzy Gillespie.

00:21:13.210 --> 00:21:17.934
We thought, both thought, that it was kind of special, like it was a really nice moment in the set.

00:21:18.134 --> 00:21:20.938
We decided eventually that we wanted to record something together.

00:21:21.057 --> 00:21:26.703
So we came with some material, but not enough to cover an entire album.

00:21:26.703 --> 00:21:57.325
we decided that the other half of the album was going to be completely improvised so half of the record is completely improvised i'm talking about we don't even talk about what key we're gonna play we just start and we wanted to see what would come up eventually you know we did some stuff that was that was really interesting because it just pushes you to listen to To an extent that you would not even think of unless you're in a situation where you have no idea what's going to happen.

00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:35.517
Obviously, you went on to play with Herbie Hancock, which is a tremendous gig to get.

00:22:35.537 --> 00:22:40.324
I mean, probably the pinnacle of a sort of jazz gig in these days.

00:22:40.365 --> 00:22:41.546
So how did that come about?

00:22:42.567 --> 00:22:44.891
I was playing, I think, with Marcus Miller at

00:22:45.132 --> 00:22:45.692
the time.

00:22:45.731 --> 00:22:53.544
Herbie had heard of me for a long time, but we never played together really, but he knew of me.

00:22:54.065 --> 00:22:57.450
And I was probably his biggest fan, and I still am.

00:22:58.082 --> 00:23:05.053
And then eventually, I was part of Marcus Miller's band, and he was doing a lot of crews at the time.

00:23:05.394 --> 00:23:10.442
And he invited Herbie to be part of one of the crews that he was the musical director.

00:23:11.143 --> 00:23:18.634
So they did like a special set where Marcus Miller was playing bass, and Pucci Bell, Marcus' drummer, was playing drums.

00:23:19.296 --> 00:23:22.280
Herbie was into having me come and sit in.

00:23:22.481 --> 00:23:24.805
So I came and sat in, and he was...

00:23:25.377 --> 00:23:30.286
He was like, man, it's been a long time coming, but we're going to do a lot together.

00:23:30.346 --> 00:23:31.748
So eventually he called me.

00:23:31.907 --> 00:23:33.029
I started playing with him.

00:23:33.651 --> 00:23:33.990
And so

00:23:34.010 --> 00:23:36.214
you toured with him for two years?

00:23:37.036 --> 00:23:40.580
Yeah, I did a few different tours.

00:23:40.981 --> 00:23:44.326
The first tour I did, like real tour I did with him, was in Europe.

00:23:44.426 --> 00:23:47.372
And we toured for about, I think, what, four months straight?

00:23:47.731 --> 00:23:48.272
Just Europe.

00:23:48.573 --> 00:23:50.576
We left in September and came back for Christmas.

00:23:51.458 --> 00:23:51.518
Wow.

00:23:51.809 --> 00:23:58.769
And a song I've got of you playing with him is possibly his most famous song, which is Cantaloupe Island.

00:23:58.809 --> 00:24:01.017
So are you getting that solo on that one?

00:24:01.037 --> 00:24:02.582
I know that's a song that you really love.

00:24:02.882 --> 00:24:03.724
It must have been special.

00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:05.470
Yeah.

00:24:29.794 --> 00:24:49.317
extremely challenging to play with Herbie not in the best way possible I'm just saying you can never just assume things are going to be one way because they're always going to be different but it's the best thing that I always dreamt of you know like that was really just being on the edge

00:24:49.999 --> 00:24:51.000
but in the best

00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:51.681
way possible

00:24:52.582 --> 00:25:03.105
So yeah I mean where do you go from playing with Herbie Hancock you went on I think you played also with Elton John and Sting at the concert for the Rainforest.

00:25:03.727 --> 00:25:04.007
Yeah.

00:25:04.968 --> 00:25:07.570
You recorded a song with Sting as well, did you?

00:25:07.951 --> 00:25:11.075
Yeah, I went in the studio with Sting for a while.

00:25:11.996 --> 00:25:13.877
It actually was for his album.

00:25:14.278 --> 00:25:15.279
Is it called My Ship?

00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.161
Something like that.

00:25:16.721 --> 00:25:20.786
But I don't think that whatever I recorded or the songs that I recorded made it to the record.

00:25:21.146 --> 00:25:21.666
But it was

00:25:22.327 --> 00:25:23.769
nevertheless a great experience.

00:25:24.354 --> 00:25:51.922
yeah so i mean some great names as you say uh you play with and then and then you decided to to try and uh you know be the band leader rather than rather than the sideman and you made your first album your first as a band leader in 2012 called gregoire moray yeah so yeah tell us about that one yeah you had quite a lot of guests on there didn't you including suit sealmans of course and uh cassandra wilson and so yeah how about about that one and putting your first album together

00:25:52.258 --> 00:25:53.740
I mean, it was a long time coming.

00:25:53.840 --> 00:26:02.155
I knew I was going to do an album eventually of my music and the sort of vision I had of the sort of music I really wanted to present.

00:26:02.596 --> 00:26:07.065
I embarked on a long journey of trying to make that happen.

00:26:07.224 --> 00:26:08.066
It took quite a while.

00:26:08.386 --> 00:26:50.289
Federico González Peña, who produced and co-wrote some of the songs really helped me tremendously for that so we really spent a huge amount of time working on some the pre-production on certain songs and the post-production on certain songs because it's like two suites on a record so it's a bunch of songs that are just kind of regular tunes either compositions of mine or standards like The Man I Love and stuff like that there's also two suites one is called Children's Suite and the other one is called Crepuscule that we worked on for weeks I mean literally like all day just getting the right sounds getting the right everything.

00:26:50.671 --> 00:26:53.353
So it was a labor of love, I would say.

00:26:53.874 --> 00:26:55.234
It was a great experience.

00:26:55.734 --> 00:27:06.364
I had this kind of vision where I wanted to kind of fulfill something quite big, you know, musically, because I had the chance to play with so many people and they were helping me to grow musically.

00:27:06.403 --> 00:27:13.029
So I wanted to go into something that I felt was bigger than just playing just tunes or playing.

00:27:13.190 --> 00:27:15.873
So that's why I went into this format.

00:27:16.313 --> 00:27:25.103
I was touring on and off with Cassandra Wilson for about, what, 10 years so it was very natural for me to call her and be a special guest on this record

00:27:30.670 --> 00:27:46.430
one day maybe two

00:27:56.546 --> 00:28:05.357
Also ask Mark Keeble of Take Six to also sing on it, and Marcus Miller also, the guest on the record.

00:28:06.159 --> 00:28:19.357
It was just one of these things where I just felt like it was a way to kind of look back, look forward, and also embracing my past to make something special happen with it.

00:28:19.778 --> 00:28:36.933
yeah it's a great album I've been listening to it a lot over the last couple of days and it really has that sense of of building through the album because of those two suites that you mentioned there doesn't it you know you got the kind of three songs or so on those two suites which really you know it kind of develops through the album which is really nice

00:28:37.515 --> 00:28:52.407
yeah thank you yeah it was but it was an intentional thing like I really wanted to get those songs I wanted to give at least for those two songs like a really long format where I could develop something over an extended amount of time.

00:28:53.068 --> 00:28:57.538
And I could really express the full range of expression I wanted to get into.

00:28:58.320 --> 00:28:58.540
Yeah.

00:28:58.902 --> 00:29:01.567
And so you composed those songs yourself then?

00:29:02.269 --> 00:29:02.509
Yeah.

00:29:02.549 --> 00:29:04.233
So the middle part is I wrote.

00:29:04.513 --> 00:29:08.400
And then the intro and the outro, both Federico and I wrote together.

00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:16.231
And he, for instance, the intro and outro of Creepy School Suite, he literally played all the parts.

00:29:16.632 --> 00:29:20.617
Like, you know, we played, there was percussions, there was all kinds of keyboards.

00:29:20.939 --> 00:29:21.019
And

00:29:21.078 --> 00:29:24.223
he just kind of did most of it, which was amazing.

00:29:25.045 --> 00:29:28.509
And I understand you do a lot, you're composing at the piano now.

00:29:28.993 --> 00:29:32.782
Yeah, I'm kind of old school, you know, with the composing process.

00:29:32.863 --> 00:29:41.544
So I have a piano at home and I start writing on piano most of the time and I'll write down the idea on paper, like music paper.

00:29:41.785 --> 00:29:43.449
The reason why I do that is...

00:29:44.321 --> 00:29:55.291
I could go in to try to create demos, but I really enjoy the creating process when people don't hear a demo and they just get a lead sheet and they try to create something out of that.

00:29:55.592 --> 00:29:59.654
Sometimes it goes really in a different direction than anything I would have imagined.

00:30:00.155 --> 00:30:01.457
And it's a great surprise for me.

00:30:01.497 --> 00:30:03.198
That's something I really embrace in life.

00:30:03.538 --> 00:30:03.878
I love.

00:30:04.179 --> 00:30:05.800
Sometimes I feel it's too different.

00:30:05.901 --> 00:30:10.384
I'll guide them a bit to be like, okay, let's try again, but let's go in this direction instead.

00:30:10.484 --> 00:30:17.632
You know, most of the time is something is surprising and exciting because it's kind of something different than what I could have imagined.

00:30:17.872 --> 00:30:27.082
And it's better in a sense, like I can just go beyond, you know, having just full control of everything all the time because everything has been already demoed and everybody's just

00:30:27.122 --> 00:30:28.963
trying to imitate the demo, you know.

00:30:28.983 --> 00:30:32.067
So are you quite an accomplished piano player nowadays?

00:30:32.106 --> 00:30:33.248
Is that something you've developed?

00:30:33.488 --> 00:30:34.548
No, no, not at all.

00:30:34.670 --> 00:30:37.051
I can write music on piano, but I'm

00:30:37.152 --> 00:30:38.634
not at all a pianist, you know.

00:30:38.945 --> 00:30:48.875
and then so then your next solo well your next album as a band lead it was the album wanted which you released in 2016 so that was sort of an album

00:30:48.894 --> 00:31:10.934
where i wanted to play songs that i could now the whole album was actually almost the antithesis to to the previous one which was highly produced highly pre-written before we went in the studio and recorded parts you know it was this one was like i wrote everything on lead sheets gave everything to the musician never told them anything and we started recording.

00:31:11.095 --> 00:31:16.763
And out of that, I worked a lot in post-production, you know, but there was no pre-production at all.

00:31:17.025 --> 00:31:18.165
And I did that intentionally.

00:31:18.226 --> 00:31:20.690
I really wanted to see what they were going to create.

00:31:21.171 --> 00:31:43.176
But the other aim with this record was trying to get some music that would be sort of the music that when I first started to be really passionate about music as a teenager, I would say, and really wanting to become a musician, what kind of music I was listening to, what kind of music I really wanted to listen to and check out and try to play and all that stuff.

00:31:43.517 --> 00:31:52.832
I know that record, if it had been coming from another artist, that record would have been a record that I would have just listened to over and over and over again back then.

00:31:52.951 --> 00:31:56.678
So it was sort of that, the idea behind this record, you know?

00:31:56.897 --> 00:32:03.372
Yeah, and of course you do the very famous standard blue and green, which you do this really interesting thing when you're playing in unison.

00:32:03.392 --> 00:32:06.219
I think, is it Chris Potter on the saxophone with you?

00:32:06.298 --> 00:32:07.481
It's a bass clarinet, yeah.

00:32:07.761 --> 00:32:08.784
A bass clarinet, yeah.

00:32:09.105 --> 00:32:13.193
It's got this really unusual sound when you're playing in unison with a bass clarinet, yeah.

00:32:16.381 --> 00:32:16.701
Yeah.

00:32:31.586 --> 00:32:37.476
That actually came from Michelle when I played on Anthropologie's record, Cookies.

00:32:37.915 --> 00:32:41.982
She had me double a melody with Marcus Miller on bass clarinet.

00:32:42.182 --> 00:32:48.894
And I always thought that I was quite unusual and really new and fresh, but really beautiful.

00:32:49.695 --> 00:32:52.339
And I was like, I'm going to have to do that again one day.

00:32:52.539 --> 00:32:56.846
And eventually when I did this arrangement, I thought it would be a perfect

00:32:56.886 --> 00:32:58.430
opportunity to have this opportunity.

00:32:59.298 --> 00:33:03.270
And then another album you did was Harp vs.

00:33:03.330 --> 00:33:11.596
Harp in 2019, where you played with a very famous harp player called Edmar Castaneda.

00:33:12.705 --> 00:33:16.634
Yeah, Edmar is my amazing harpist.

00:33:17.115 --> 00:33:21.965
He comes from the Colombian tradition, you know, Colombian-Venezuelan traditional harp.

00:33:22.226 --> 00:33:26.255
They have a whole different way of playing the harp in South America.

00:33:26.736 --> 00:33:28.519
So it's a complete different approach.

00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:30.584
It's much more rhythmical, you know.

00:33:31.005 --> 00:33:31.645
They just...

00:33:32.001 --> 00:33:33.282
take it to a different level.

00:33:33.703 --> 00:33:37.028
They have all this complex rhythm, both in Colombia and Venezuela.

00:33:37.548 --> 00:33:40.951
He comes from Bogota, and he's just an amazing harpist.

00:33:41.071 --> 00:33:44.816
So it was kind of similar to the thing that happened with Andy Milne.

00:33:45.517 --> 00:33:53.506
He invited me to join his band, which was a nonet at the time, for some gigs and some recordings that we did.

00:33:53.986 --> 00:33:57.190
He would always take also a moment during the set where...

00:33:57.602 --> 00:34:01.711
him and I would do a duo together, and it sounded beautiful.

00:34:02.032 --> 00:34:05.882
So he thought that we should try to record something together eventually.

00:34:06.423 --> 00:34:07.645
So we did.

00:34:07.685 --> 00:34:15.585
After a few gigs that we did together, we decided to try to record something, and this record came from that.

00:34:28.737 --> 00:34:29.534
Thank you.

00:34:40.514 --> 00:34:43.737
We've been doing quite a few dates together, so it's been really quite exciting.

00:34:43.818 --> 00:34:45.940
Before, obviously, this pandemic, it's

00:34:45.981 --> 00:34:48.184
been quite exciting to play live with him as well.

00:34:48.284 --> 00:34:50.186
Getting a lot of energy comes from that harp, doesn't it?

00:34:50.206 --> 00:34:51.989
It sounds great, yeah, and it's a good combination.

00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:58.117
And then you did another album with Pat Metheny in 2020 from this play, so you're still playing with him as well?

00:34:58.396 --> 00:35:02.282
Yeah, so he called me to record his latest record.

00:35:02.822 --> 00:35:08.010
We've always kept in touch, you know, but I didn't get to play with him after the way up.

00:35:08.289 --> 00:35:13.516
But yeah, he thought that that sound, his voice, my sound, I guess, was needed on this record.

00:35:13.536 --> 00:35:16.039
So I recorded this thing.

00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:16.778
It was great.

00:35:16.940 --> 00:35:18.021
Great experience, always.

00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:19.601
I mean, I love Pat's music.

00:35:19.702 --> 00:35:21.443
It's always so incredible.

00:35:21.925 --> 00:35:27.731
And then another album you as band leader called Americana, which is obviously Americana music.

00:35:27.811 --> 00:35:31.695
So what made you want to release an album of Americana music?

00:35:31.835 --> 00:35:33.498
That's an album that we...

00:35:34.114 --> 00:35:41.367
conceptualized with Roman Cullen, the pianist on the record, something that we created together.

00:35:41.887 --> 00:35:46.536
We wanted to do and create music together, but we were not sure what we were going to do.

00:35:47.137 --> 00:35:49.101
We knew there was going to be something melodic.

00:35:50.103 --> 00:35:51.565
I love melodies, okay?

00:35:51.666 --> 00:35:53.509
I just, this is my thing.

00:35:54.050 --> 00:35:55.693
I love to play out.

00:35:55.853 --> 00:35:57.275
I love to play modern.

00:35:57.335 --> 00:35:58.398
I love all that stuff.

00:35:58.786 --> 00:36:02.952
but down deep when it comes back to the essential things, it's

00:36:03.092 --> 00:36:03.974
all about melodies.

00:36:05.536 --> 00:36:08.541
I think that's what the chromatic harmonica is very strong at as well, isn't it?

00:36:08.561 --> 00:36:09.382
That melodic playing.

00:36:09.643 --> 00:36:18.918
Absolutely, but also I feel that nowadays, not necessarily talking about harmonica, but nowadays there's just not that many people who really can play melodies.

00:36:18.998 --> 00:36:21.103
I mean, there are some, but not that many.

00:36:21.202 --> 00:36:25.208
A lot of people can play great, but they just don't really play melodies.

00:36:25.730 --> 00:36:29.918
So for me, it is down deep, just all about melody.

00:36:29.958 --> 00:36:38.534
So we started voicing this wish of being able to kind of really get into melodies, you know, pretty, pretty songs.

00:36:38.715 --> 00:37:13.449
We looked at different songs that we could play whether it was going to be pop or it was what kind of we were not exactly sure and then eventually we decided that this kind of style of music Americana was going to be kind of the perfect vehicle for that now I relate to that because I I've played with Cassandra Wilson for 10 years and inside of her world that style is present you know it's not she doesn't just do Americana it's not that she's a jazz singer but she sings folk songs she sings songs that kind of in the whole Americana style.

00:37:13.528 --> 00:37:15.672
She sings sometimes pop songs.

00:37:16.152 --> 00:37:18.795
And I felt really, really connected to that.

00:37:18.976 --> 00:37:22.039
I knew that I always felt connected to that playing with her.

00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:25.985
And so it was very natural for me to do it again, to

00:37:26.025 --> 00:37:26.405
do my

00:37:26.465 --> 00:37:26.746
take

00:37:26.927 --> 00:37:27.186
on it.

00:37:27.487 --> 00:37:32.094
Yeah, and the song on there, Brothers in Arms, which is a song I really love.

00:37:32.114 --> 00:37:33.675
It sounds great on the harmonica.

00:37:40.726 --> 00:37:49.454
piano plays softly So,

00:37:58.338 --> 00:38:01.380
And also Wichita Lion Man as well, which you wouldn't

00:38:01.501 --> 00:38:01.621
expect.

00:38:01.641 --> 00:38:05.545
Well, Wichita is the song that I used to play with Cassandra Wilson for 10 years.

00:38:05.626 --> 00:38:07.748
And I mean, she was obviously singing it.

00:38:07.949 --> 00:38:12.514
And then there was always a moment where she would kind of like look at me and I took a chorus.

00:38:12.893 --> 00:38:17.318
And for 10 years, we were literally performing the song every night.

00:38:17.739 --> 00:38:21.744
And I always thought, okay, this song is a treasure.

00:38:22.224 --> 00:38:23.907
Whenever I'll do something with that kind of

00:38:23.947 --> 00:38:26.489
music, I'll have to record this song.

00:38:27.074 --> 00:38:32.340
Yeah, and I think, again, that really shows that melodic strength, particularly with the chromatic harmonica, it's so good at it.

00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.824
It's great at playing melodies like that, and it sounds so beautiful.

00:38:35.945 --> 00:38:48.239
And it's a song, if you look, it was created back in the early 60s or something like that, I'm not sure exactly the year it was created, but it's quite modern, the way it's composed.

00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:52.625
It's a song that keeps going back between two keys, if you really look.

00:38:52.905 --> 00:39:00.311
It's between B-flat major and D major, which is like, wow, It's basically giant steps, but in the most melodic way.

00:39:00.931 --> 00:39:05.018
So it's kind of really, really exciting and fresh.

00:39:06.362 --> 00:39:12.090
That song is a big deal for me because I've learned a lot from playing this song, from the way it's voiced.

00:39:12.130 --> 00:39:15.536
Because I always played with guitar players, very few pianists.

00:39:16.217 --> 00:39:21.166
So the way they were voicing those chords was another sound that became

00:39:21.186 --> 00:39:23.150
a big part of my musical world.

00:39:23.521 --> 00:39:27.172
So yeah, you've played some brilliant people and a great long listener.

00:39:27.371 --> 00:39:28.576
You're playing as a sideman.

00:39:28.596 --> 00:39:33.509
So what about that difference between playing the sideman and the band leader?

00:39:33.829 --> 00:39:34.592
Which do you prefer?

00:39:34.612 --> 00:39:34.632
I

00:39:35.313 --> 00:39:38.240
love both, you know, and I wanted to keep on doing both.

00:39:38.818 --> 00:39:46.367
Not only just going 100 days out of the year on tour as a sideman, but I still enjoy being a sideman.

00:39:46.407 --> 00:39:50.293
It's a totally different philosophy and way of looking at music.

00:39:51.074 --> 00:39:58.344
First of all, the thing that's identical is that you're here for the music and making sure the music sounds as good as possible.

00:39:58.485 --> 00:40:02.409
And that has to be beyond any musician on stage, whether it's me or...

00:40:03.431 --> 00:40:05.353
We try to be bigger than just...

00:40:05.697 --> 00:40:08.041
Like trying to create something much bigger.

00:40:08.302 --> 00:40:09.403
So that's the aim.

00:40:09.864 --> 00:40:11.106
And we all have this aim.

00:40:11.467 --> 00:40:12.329
That's the first thing.

00:40:12.789 --> 00:40:23.005
But then when you're a leader, you're the one responsible for literally everything from bringing the tunes, making sure the arrangements come really the best for that.

00:40:23.233 --> 00:40:35.844
kind of group, whatever group you present, making sure you kind of create the material that's going to be the best for the group that you have, or to put together the best group for the kind of material that you write.

00:40:35.965 --> 00:40:37.425
You know, that's the big thing.

00:40:37.887 --> 00:40:40.048
So that's a different kind of mentality.

00:40:40.088 --> 00:40:41.710
When you're a sideman, you don't think about that.

00:40:41.730 --> 00:40:50.697
You just show up at the gig or at the recording session and just make sure that whatever they have in mind with you is even better than whatever they imagine.

00:40:51.277 --> 00:40:57.786
So, talking about sidemen, you added a documentary made about you by Frédéric Balif.

00:40:58.108 --> 00:41:00.550
Yeah, that was like the early days, actually.

00:41:00.570 --> 00:41:04.416
It was during the time I was playing with Andy Milne and Charlie Hunter.

00:41:04.757 --> 00:41:06.701
He's a high school friend of mine.

00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:08.063
We went to high school together.

00:41:08.103 --> 00:41:13.490
And he saw how passionate I was with music before I left for the U.S.

00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.755
And then eventually we reconnected when I was in the U.S.

00:41:17.396 --> 00:41:18.318
in the early stage.

00:41:18.358 --> 00:41:20.422
So it's right around 9-11.

00:41:20.737 --> 00:41:23.121
that he recorded this whole documentary.

00:41:23.380 --> 00:41:24.842
So he saw a lot.

00:41:25.003 --> 00:41:35.978
He saw me struggle, he saw me go through great moments, beautiful moments of music, but he also saw me go through the whole period of 9-11 where there was no work.

00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:39.483
It was just an intense moment in my life.

00:41:39.882 --> 00:41:42.166
It's a French-language film, isn't it?

00:41:42.266 --> 00:41:43.668
Well, actually, there's two versions.

00:41:43.688 --> 00:41:48.094
There's one in English, I guess, with subtitles, and then another one in French, yeah.

00:41:48.673 --> 00:41:52.117
So yeah, moving on a little bit, we talked through your career there.

00:41:52.137 --> 00:41:55.619
You played lots of different styles of music, as you said there, isn't it?

00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:02.186
You probably get categorized as a jazz musician, but I know you like to play punk, you played funk as well, didn't you?

00:42:02.226 --> 00:42:04.007
You played a little bit of classical as well.

00:42:04.688 --> 00:42:12.253
Yeah, I had an opportunity once to play contemporary, I guess classical music or whatever you want to call it.

00:42:12.273 --> 00:42:16.518
It was an opera composed with a chromatic part in it.

00:42:17.438 --> 00:42:23.844
It was the story of Alice in Wonderland, composed by the composer Wu Sung-Ching, Chinese composer.

00:42:24.246 --> 00:42:27.521
So they called me in Geneva to do this, and I did.

00:42:27.905 --> 00:42:33.496
That was a great experience, you know, because it was so different from anything I've ever done before and after.

00:42:33.556 --> 00:42:41.030
Playing like really completely written music and having to perform exactly the same every night for a couple of months.

00:42:41.590 --> 00:42:48.744
But it was great, you know, but it was one of those things where the way she wrote the music was not quite correct for the harmonica.

00:42:48.764 --> 00:42:51.371
I guess she didn't really know the instrument well.

00:42:51.632 --> 00:43:02.242
So I had to put together like a bunch of harmonicas, like stacked up to be able to play whatever she wrote because she wanted me to play intervals, but it was not, it was okay.

00:43:02.342 --> 00:43:09.251
Like certain intervals would be, for instance, in the key of E major and then the other one with C or, you know what I mean?

00:43:09.291 --> 00:43:11.994
So I couldn't just use one chromatic harmonica for it.

00:43:12.414 --> 00:43:20.980
I had like five or six harmonicas stacked up in different keys, chromatic, and I would play the thing jumping from one to the next And that was the only way I could do it.

00:43:21.561 --> 00:43:22.164
It was great.

00:43:22.184 --> 00:43:26.603
I had the pleasure to play with a children's choir during that time.

00:43:26.643 --> 00:43:28.490
Every night, it was

00:43:29.315 --> 00:43:29.978
quite special.

00:43:30.626 --> 00:43:32.829
So we touched on two sermons.

00:43:33.010 --> 00:43:35.655
You had some contact with him when you were younger.

00:43:35.735 --> 00:43:38.099
He gave you some tips and such, didn't

00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:38.340
he?

00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:50.181
Yeah, I mean, when I first started playing the chromatic harmonica, one of the musicians that was sort of my mentor back then, named Antoine Auguet, was playing in a big band in the next city next to Geneva.

00:43:50.434 --> 00:43:55.679
And they had this perfect concert or series of concerts that they were going to do with Toots Tillman.

00:43:55.858 --> 00:43:58.322
And he was like, man, I'm about to go play with Toots.

00:43:58.641 --> 00:44:02.045
I need to introduce you to him because that's the guy.

00:44:02.206 --> 00:44:03.786
And I was like, man, that's incredible.

00:44:03.987 --> 00:44:07.831
I went to the concert and after the concert, he did introduce me to Toots.

00:44:08.211 --> 00:44:09.733
And Toots put me on the spot.

00:44:10.014 --> 00:44:10.494
I was cool.

00:44:10.673 --> 00:44:11.315
It was like play.

00:44:11.594 --> 00:44:14.137
I got my harmonica, tried to play a blues back.

00:44:14.157 --> 00:44:16.159
I got completely lost.

00:44:16.219 --> 00:44:18.041
I was 17 at the time.

00:44:18.561 --> 00:44:20.184
I just complained in front of him.

00:44:20.244 --> 00:44:22.007
I was just too starstruck.

00:44:22.106 --> 00:44:23.789
It was just too much.

00:44:24.311 --> 00:44:26.653
But somehow he saw and heard something.

00:44:27.315 --> 00:44:28.456
So he was like, you know what?

00:44:28.958 --> 00:44:29.398
Come with me.

00:44:29.458 --> 00:44:30.239
Let's take a walk.

00:44:30.380 --> 00:44:37.449
So we left the place where he performed and we walked in the city and he was like, listen, I heard you.

00:44:37.911 --> 00:44:46.724
Now, if you like what I play, what I do, you should take it as an example and eventually you should detach yourself and find your own path musically.

00:44:46.943 --> 00:44:47.826
And that's really...

00:44:48.161 --> 00:44:48.884
what you should do.

00:44:48.923 --> 00:44:50.509
You shouldn't just try to copy me.

00:44:50.568 --> 00:44:53.597
You should take it and grow out of it, you know.

00:44:53.998 --> 00:44:57.527
And that's basically what I've been trying to do my entire life since that day.

00:44:57.568 --> 00:45:02.240
It was like being obviously really influenced by him and Stevie Wonder, of course.

00:45:02.753 --> 00:45:06.079
Out of that, try to kind of find my own path musically.

00:45:06.278 --> 00:45:12.206
I think I was really fortunate because I got to meet people who forced me also sort of like to do that.

00:45:12.286 --> 00:45:14.489
Like they give me no choice.

00:45:14.550 --> 00:45:23.161
Like Steve Coleman, for instance, when I got to play with him, there was no way I could really just play whatever Toots or Stevie were playing on the harmonica.

00:45:23.222 --> 00:45:25.885
I had to come up with something different that would work with his

00:45:25.945 --> 00:45:28.027
music that was much more angular, you know.

00:45:28.528 --> 00:45:32.094
Did you spend a lot of time, you know, working out Toots solos and things like that?

00:45:32.289 --> 00:46:04.378
no I did a few of them of his but not a whole lot of time because early on I got to meet him during this time when I was 17 quite young and I knew already that I had to I had to try to find something else I mean I was definitely very influenced by him and love all his stuff but I wasn't somebody who was just learning every single solo of his and trying to play all his solos and everything I've learned probably two or three and after that I just forced myself to learn other things.

00:46:04.478 --> 00:46:06.820
So I would try to check out Freddie Hubbard, for instance.

00:46:07.021 --> 00:46:13.907
I learned Ready for Freddie, Bird Light, you know, the blues on Ready for Freddie, exactly the way Freddie played it.

00:46:13.927 --> 00:46:16.871
So it sounded like an effect on the trumpet.

00:46:17.072 --> 00:46:19.894
I played also Herbie's, some of Herbie's solos.

00:46:19.994 --> 00:46:20.775
It was the same thing.

00:46:20.876 --> 00:46:24.079
It felt like it was either an effect on the piano or like a keyboard.

00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:33.110
So I just did a lot of that where I was just really trying to really understand other musicians and other instrumentalists rather

00:46:33.130 --> 00:46:34.492
than just copy toots.

00:46:35.074 --> 00:46:37.639
And particularly a jazz, I think it's very important to do that, isn't it?

00:46:37.659 --> 00:46:42.949
There's not that many jazz harmonica players, so it's really important, particularly you go and learn from other instruments as well.

00:46:43.250 --> 00:46:43.570
Yeah.

00:46:44.251 --> 00:46:53.269
Okay, so a question I ask each time, if you had 10 minutes to practice in the day, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

00:46:53.634 --> 00:46:58.798
I would come back to playing scales and arpeggios and the sound.

00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.934
So I would do long tones, like something like that, like...

00:47:06.945 --> 00:47:11.110
And really have the sound really steady, like not just going through.

00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:14.733
First, without vibrato, you know, just really straight.

00:47:14.954 --> 00:47:17.615
Just to have a real control of the sound.

00:47:17.795 --> 00:47:21.179
And then eventually you can venture into playing vibrato and all that stuff.

00:47:21.340 --> 00:47:24.422
The other thing that I would do is playing really soft.

00:47:29.606 --> 00:47:31.608
But with a lot of projection.

00:47:31.768 --> 00:47:35.193
So you hear, you heard me, and it's very soft.

00:47:35.293 --> 00:47:36.353
At the same time, it's very...

00:47:36.802 --> 00:47:42.393
clean, precise, You have control of the note from the very beginning until the very end.

00:47:42.492 --> 00:47:44.956
It's not something that's just kind of going all over the place.

00:47:45.335 --> 00:47:49.900
It doesn't have to be a long tone that stays playing that long forever.

00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:51.961
It just can be relatively short.

00:47:52.081 --> 00:47:54.204
As long as it's really controlled, it has to be controlled.

00:47:54.224 --> 00:47:55.505
That's what you're practicing.

00:47:55.804 --> 00:47:56.925
That's the first thing I would do.

00:47:57.065 --> 00:47:59.827
The other thing I would do is literally arpeggios.

00:48:06.653 --> 00:48:40.692
That kind of stuff, which is really, really actually important for just articulation and then I would just play like even just major scales in all 12 keys or you can do it over two octaves and then eventually you can kind of do it fast that already with these exercises you have a lot now if you have all that stuff together and you can sort of practice That's great.

00:48:40.893 --> 00:48:41.894
So already a lot.

00:48:42.135 --> 00:48:46.202
And then if you had another 10 minutes, I would kind of, whatever, choose a song.

00:48:46.463 --> 00:48:47.606
It doesn't have to be complex.

00:48:47.746 --> 00:48:52.135
Whatever song you want to play and try to really play, play the melody sounding really good.

00:48:52.414 --> 00:48:53.617
Each note sounds great.

00:48:53.858 --> 00:48:59.742
And the last thing that I would say is it's really beneficial to practice with a metronome.

00:48:59.882 --> 00:49:07.829
So whether it's a tune or even those exercises that I just showed, just try to practice with a metronome because time in jazz is

00:49:08.110 --> 00:49:08.670
essential.

00:49:08.871 --> 00:49:10.231
You've got to be able to have good time.

00:49:10.391 --> 00:49:10.992
It's interesting.

00:49:11.012 --> 00:49:13.994
So you're still working on those more basic things now, are you?

00:49:14.036 --> 00:49:14.056
I

00:49:14.155 --> 00:49:14.416
always

00:49:14.496 --> 00:49:14.916
go back to

00:49:14.956 --> 00:49:15.076
that.

00:49:15.135 --> 00:49:25.327
The very complex stuff, I'll work on it for a while and then I'll go into something else and I'll just explore different things, different types of Scales, different types of everything.

00:49:25.586 --> 00:49:30.215
The thing that I never change are those basic exercises.

00:49:30.235 --> 00:49:31.237
First, start slow.

00:49:31.516 --> 00:49:33.420
Don't start playing fast.

00:49:34.041 --> 00:49:35.224
Fast comes later.

00:49:35.885 --> 00:49:39.952
Fast is not as important as sounding great.

00:49:40.592 --> 00:49:42.076
What you want is to sound great.

00:49:42.235 --> 00:49:43.378
Each note sounds great.

00:49:43.798 --> 00:49:45.742
Each note is a pure treasure.

00:49:45.985 --> 00:49:47.168
It sounds so good.

00:49:47.347 --> 00:49:52.036
I mean, when you listen to other instrumentalists, when they play their instruments, it's like that.

00:49:52.396 --> 00:49:54.340
Every time they play something, it's like, wow.

00:49:54.460 --> 00:49:58.766
Listen to Keith Jarrett, you know, every time he plays a note, it's ridiculously beautiful.

00:49:59.407 --> 00:50:05.338
Listen to Herbie, listen to Pat Metheny, every freaking note he's playing on the guitar is perfect.

00:50:05.518 --> 00:50:07.621
Always like that sense of perfection.

00:50:07.938 --> 00:50:16.655
Already first with the sound, the tone, and then eventually you get to, if you want to play faster or whatever, more complex, you can.

00:50:16.695 --> 00:50:21.246
But there's nothing wrong with playing very, very simple as long as it's beautiful.

00:50:21.485 --> 00:50:27.057
That's going to be much more effective and emotionally interesting and powerful.

00:50:27.521 --> 00:50:28.682
and playing fast.

00:50:29.324 --> 00:50:34.208
Talking on to the last section now, which is talking more about that gear and the gear that you use.

00:50:34.248 --> 00:50:42.657
So we'll talk about your signature harmonica, which is the Suzuki G48, one of which I own, by the way, and it's a very fine harmonica.

00:50:42.697 --> 00:50:44.778
So this came about in 2005.

00:50:44.818 --> 00:50:46.280
I think you were over in Japan.

00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:50.364
So tell us the story about how you came to help create the G48.

00:50:50.443 --> 00:50:50.543
I

00:50:50.784 --> 00:50:54.588
met the people at Suzuki in Japan when I was on tour with Pat Metheny.

00:50:54.628 --> 00:50:56.010
So they would basically...

00:50:56.289 --> 00:50:58.333
give me some instrument to try.

00:50:58.373 --> 00:51:03.563
Honestly, at the time, those instruments were not good, but they were leaking all over the place.

00:51:04.045 --> 00:51:11.239
As soon as I had to play something a little bit more challenging, a bit faster, or just tricky technically, it was just not happening.

00:51:11.318 --> 00:51:17.028
So I was telling them, listen, I like parts of the instrument, but there's other parts that really need a lot of work.

00:51:17.349 --> 00:51:23.260
And if you're willing to work together with me, I'd be happy to get this thing improved with you.

00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.143
They were really excited about the idea.

00:51:25.182 --> 00:51:28.068
They had a really young team in the factory at the time.

00:51:28.128 --> 00:51:29.429
We were all about the same age.

00:51:29.751 --> 00:51:31.012
So we became really good friends.

00:51:31.233 --> 00:51:36.041
They were all really, really all about trying to create great instruments.

00:51:36.302 --> 00:51:38.186
They just needed some input.

00:51:38.561 --> 00:51:46.349
I started giving them the input I could give them, and they were really aggressive in trying to make it a much better instrument.

00:51:46.369 --> 00:52:03.744
So, for instance, the entire time I was on tour with Pat Missini in Japan, which was about three weeks, I don't know, maybe a month, it was literally like they would give me a harmonica, I would try it, and I'd be telling them via email, like, listen, okay, this and this is not quite right, you know, you could maybe improve it like this, like that.

00:52:04.224 --> 00:52:07.746
Maybe the next day or the following day I had a different harmonica.

00:52:08.108 --> 00:52:28.717
So I would try again and I'd be like well this is much better or this is you know whatever and this could change and get improved better as well and again I would get another instrument the next day I don't know how many harmonica I tried And eventually what we did is that I would try them for longer, not just a day, but this time maybe a couple of weeks and then give them some feedback.

00:52:28.777 --> 00:52:31.001
And they would send me another instrument and we would do that.

00:52:31.961 --> 00:52:33.163
We did that for a long time.

00:52:33.543 --> 00:52:41.791
And eventually they came with the wish of making my signature model because I helped them with their basic instrument to make them much better.

00:52:41.811 --> 00:52:46.677
And they were like, maybe we can make an upgraded version, like something that is really you.

00:52:47.277 --> 00:52:48.898
And I was like, I would love that.

00:52:48.918 --> 00:52:49.518
That would be great.

00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:54.164
So we worked actually about four years to make that harmonica together.

00:52:54.644 --> 00:52:55.045
Same thing.

00:52:55.065 --> 00:53:01.512
They would send me prototypes and I would just play and try it again and tell them, no, this is not quite good.

00:53:01.572 --> 00:53:03.393
And until it was perfect.

00:53:03.594 --> 00:53:07.597
And I remember very, very vividly when Perfect Instrument arrived.

00:53:07.697 --> 00:53:11.481
It was when I started that tour with Herbie in Europe during the rehearsal.

00:53:11.621 --> 00:53:13.244
I received two harmonicas.

00:53:13.664 --> 00:53:15.246
I was just like, this is perfect.

00:53:15.425 --> 00:53:18.048
And I tried them for three months, four months, whatever.

00:53:18.168 --> 00:53:19.949
And I was like, they still are in tune.

00:53:19.989 --> 00:53:21.351
They are beautiful.

00:53:21.652 --> 00:53:22.032
That's it.

00:53:22.273 --> 00:53:23.152
That's what I want to play.

00:53:23.634 --> 00:53:25.416
Very fine, very fine chromatics.

00:53:25.436 --> 00:53:27.016
Yeah, people can definitely check them out.

00:53:27.036 --> 00:53:29.018
And there's the wooden bodies one as well, isn't it?

00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:30.621
Which you prefer the wooden body or the metal?

00:53:30.661 --> 00:53:30.681
I

00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:32.161
love both.

00:53:32.702 --> 00:53:37.086
It's an interesting thing because I have a different relationship with both of them.

00:53:37.407 --> 00:53:39.309
Now I play the wooden one more.

00:53:39.568 --> 00:53:41.110
But I love the metal one.

00:53:41.590 --> 00:53:44.134
When I first started playing my signature, I was playing...

00:53:44.610 --> 00:53:47.373
a lot more the metal one for whatever reason.

00:53:47.413 --> 00:53:50.235
I had much more of a connection, I guess, to it at the time.

00:53:50.295 --> 00:53:53.639
Now I'm more with the wooden one and I'm sure I'll go back and forth.

00:53:54.059 --> 00:53:57.902
And I still use the metal one for sure, but I use

00:53:58.003 --> 00:53:59.304
the wooden one a bit more.

00:54:00.105 --> 00:54:05.050
So I assume the G48 Guayguamore chromatic is the only chromatic you play?

00:54:05.090 --> 00:54:06.411
Yeah, that's the only thing.

00:54:06.692 --> 00:54:14.760
I mean, sometimes when I need like a longer range or whatever, I'll play the four octave serious chromatic It could be for recording.

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:20.208
For instance, when I recorded Brothers in Arms, it's a key that goes too low.

00:54:20.309 --> 00:54:21.791
So I had to record that on a

00:54:22.132 --> 00:54:23.594
serious, I might have four octaves.

00:54:23.853 --> 00:54:26.177
And so you mainly play a 12-hole chromatic?

00:54:26.378 --> 00:54:26.898
Absolutely.

00:54:27.219 --> 00:54:28.061
Especially live.

00:54:28.382 --> 00:54:31.106
And do you want to use standard tuned chromatic?

00:54:31.297 --> 00:54:35.981
Yeah, I mean, Brandon Power was always trying to get me to try to use his different tuning.

00:54:36.021 --> 00:54:37.043
I tried a few.

00:54:37.583 --> 00:54:40.746
He gave me a diminished Suzuki harmonic.

00:54:41.005 --> 00:54:42.588
I like the regular tone.

00:54:42.927 --> 00:54:45.010
Do you play any diatonic at all nowadays?

00:54:45.570 --> 00:54:46.451
Not really anymore.

00:54:46.530 --> 00:54:51.034
I still own quite a few, and I'll jam on it once in a while.

00:54:51.275 --> 00:54:52.836
And what embouchure do you use?

00:54:53.376 --> 00:55:01.264
A tongue block all the time, which I believe really helps me to get the sort of definition I have when I play a bit faster, I think, the tongue block.

00:55:01.264 --> 00:55:02.105
and

00:55:02.385 --> 00:55:08.032
talking about equipment do you play through any amplifiers or do you use the PA you know going mainly for a clean sound I

00:55:08.393 --> 00:55:14.963
do have an amplifier but it's just when I rehearse or maybe at home for certain things

00:55:15.764 --> 00:55:17.126
but is it a clean sort of acoustic

00:55:17.146 --> 00:55:31.657
yeah it's completely clean but other than that when I perform concerts I do concerts it's always just the PA and what microphone do you like to use It can vary, but it's not the same setup when I record and when I play live.

00:55:31.677 --> 00:55:33.822
So live, I can play like a Shure 58.

00:55:33.961 --> 00:55:38.849
I like when it's wireless because it gives me the freedom to move around a little bit.

00:55:39.329 --> 00:55:43.135
There's also this company, Earthworks mics.

00:55:43.396 --> 00:55:44.318
They're incredible.

00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.362
And then for the amp, Schertler amplification.

00:55:47.764 --> 00:55:48.965
They are beautiful.

00:55:49.126 --> 00:55:49.365
They have

00:55:49.766 --> 00:55:49.887
the

00:55:49.987 --> 00:55:50.907
bass, they have everything.

00:55:50.969 --> 00:55:51.630
And it's small.

00:55:52.385 --> 00:55:54.876
And so you mentioned using different mics for recording then.

00:55:54.896 --> 00:55:56.963
So what sort of mics do you like to record with?

00:55:57.425 --> 00:56:00.177
To record, I use two mics.

00:56:00.802 --> 00:56:10.795
So I'll use a variety of different types of mic, but it's always, I'll have a Royer, which is known actually for great sound for acoustic guitar, for instance.

00:56:11.114 --> 00:56:17.762
And then a brighter mic that has just a great definition and sounds good, but maybe a little bit too bright.

00:56:17.782 --> 00:56:20.847
So the Royer will always give it a little bit more

00:56:20.867 --> 00:56:22.889
body and a bit more warmth.

00:56:23.431 --> 00:56:25.994
And is the Royer, is that a ribbon mic, the Royer?

00:56:26.369 --> 00:56:26.811
Exactly.

00:56:26.990 --> 00:56:32.677
So some of those Royer ribbon mics, so they're the most famous ribbon mics and some of them are very expensive.

00:56:32.697 --> 00:56:34.119
It's not a 1-2-1, is it?

00:56:34.601 --> 00:56:35.641
Yeah, it is.

00:56:35.702 --> 00:56:36.103
Exactly,

00:56:36.143 --> 00:56:36.663
that's the one.

00:56:36.943 --> 00:56:37.764
The Royer 1-2-1.

00:56:37.804 --> 00:56:39.327
Yes, I'll just put it.

00:56:39.606 --> 00:56:47.317
So the ribbon mics are really expensive, but I think the ribbon mics work really well with the chromatic because it really softens that high end on the chromatic.

00:56:47.416 --> 00:56:48.177
Yeah, exactly.

00:56:48.478 --> 00:56:51.623
But I need a second mic to make it really sound perfect.

00:56:52.184 --> 00:56:53.806
And what about using any effects?

00:56:54.210 --> 00:56:55.170
Yes, I started.

00:56:55.632 --> 00:57:05.222
I'm also endorsing Zoom, you know, Zoom, but not the company that makes teleconference, but Zoom, the pedal effects or the recorder.

00:57:05.402 --> 00:57:07.905
So they make all kinds of pedals effects.

00:57:08.226 --> 00:57:19.239
So I've been working with one of the newest effects, which is a multi-effect pedal that is designed for the voice or the harmonica or I guess different like acoustic instruments.

00:57:19.418 --> 00:57:22.141
Yeah, it's the Zoom A1X pedal.

00:57:22.306 --> 00:57:25.047
for acoustic instruments, multi-effect processor.

00:57:25.168 --> 00:57:31.474
So I've been kind of playing with that and also on a bunch of Boss pedals.

00:57:31.753 --> 00:57:33.755
So I do work with effects, yes.

00:57:34.036 --> 00:57:39.581
But I'm also, I'm very prudent to try to use it really when it needs it, not just to use it.

00:57:39.701 --> 00:57:42.784
I just really try to make sure that it's the right time.

00:57:43.043 --> 00:57:43.824
That's the same thing.

00:57:43.885 --> 00:57:45.987
It's all about music and the music should tell

00:57:46.007 --> 00:57:46.706
you when that

00:57:46.746 --> 00:57:47.088
should be

00:57:47.307 --> 00:57:48.668
used, not the other way around.

00:57:48.869 --> 00:57:49.869
Well, that's sort of the question then.

00:57:49.929 --> 00:57:55.960
Obviously, we're still in pandemic times at the moment so are things looking for you now what's your future plans

00:57:56.239 --> 00:58:17.556
yeah I mean in terms of I'm still recording some but in terms of live I may have some shows in the fall but I'm not sure it's going to happen I'm invited with Edmar to come at the London Jazz Festival but I don't know if we're going to be able to come But then after that would be, I've got a couple possible shows in the fall, but then after that it would be next year.

00:58:18.137 --> 00:58:22.248
So I'm basically really planning on trying to start again next

00:58:22.309 --> 00:58:22.489
year.

00:58:22.978 --> 00:58:46.407
finishing off um you're taking part in the uh the harmonica uk chromatic weekend this friday evening at 8 p.m uk time so people who hear that here before then which is on the 24th of july 2020 so yeah if people would catch that before then obviously they can check you out on that doing doing a workshop which we're looking forward to as well so so thanks very much greg wall for the time thank you That's it for today, folks.

00:58:46.748 --> 00:58:54.483
Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose-built for the harmonica.

00:58:54.822 --> 00:58:56.365
Be sure to check out their website.

00:58:57.809 --> 00:59:00.494
Gregoire, play some Crepuscule Sweet.