April 13, 2020

Giles Robson interview

Giles Robson interview
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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Blues Harmonica

Today I talk to Giles Robson, who released two highly successful albums in 2019.
Giles started out with a more blues rock fusion approach before returning to a more traditional blues style, but with a modern twist,
which has won over audiences across Europe and America.
He has done this with a real dedication to the art and a keen sense of how the music industry works.
This led to Giles winning an award for best acoustic blues album in Memphis in 2019.
Giles tells us of all the ingredients that have made him a great blues artist, performer and showman.

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Check out Giles' website:
http://www.gilesrobson.com/

Giles is available for online lessons:
Giles.Robson@gmail.com

Giles' small amp of choice:
https://www.honeyboyamps.com/


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:35 - Jersey roots

02:45 - What got Giles started playing harp

03:48 - First harp heard

04:12 - First harp bought

04:26 - First harp concert seen: Cephas & Wiggins

05:40 - Music education

06:10 - Won music competition at school

06:54 - First gigs

07:21 - Early influential album

08:01 - Singing

09:41 - Being the frontman in band

12:29 - First harps of choice

13:59 - The Mighty Incinerator and the first album

15:07 - Second album

16:28 - Album: For Those Who Need The Blues

18:10 - Lyric writing

21:18 - Journeys To The Heart of the Blues album

23:53 - Using upper register

25:42 - Album: Don't Give Up On The Blues

25:58 - Playing instrumentals

29:21 - Little Walter Tribute Album

29:39 - Bringing over American artists to Europe

31:53 - Advice for upcoming bands

34:41 - Favourite harmonica artists

36:30 - Memphis Slim influence

40:01 - Giles playing style

41:35 - Sugar Blue influence

43:07 - Blues chromatic

43:55 - 10 minutes question

46:59 - Giles teaching

47:17 - Harmonica of choice

48:40 - Favourite key of harmonica

49:39 - Opinion of different tunings and overblows

53:42 - Amps and microphones

55:58 - Effects pedals

WEBVTT

00:00:00.353 --> 00:00:09.153
Hi, Neil Warren here again and welcome to another episode of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast with more interviews with some of the finest harmonica players around today.

00:00:09.955 --> 00:00:17.272
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and also check out the Spotify playlist where some of the tracks discussed during the interviews can be heard.

00:00:19.905 --> 00:00:37.305
Today I talked to Giles Robson, who released two highly successful albums last year.

00:00:38.127 --> 00:00:47.917
Giles started out with a more blues rock fusion approach before returning to a more traditional blues style, but with a modern twist, which has won over audiences across Europe and America.

00:00:48.737 --> 00:00:53.902
He has done this with a real dedication to the art and a keen sense of how the music industry works.

00:00:54.302 --> 00:00:59.588
This led to Giles winning an award for Best Acoustic Blues Album in Memphis in 2019.

00:01:00.168 --> 00:01:05.132
Giles tells us of all the ingredients that have made him a great blues artist, performer and showman.

00:01:14.602 --> 00:01:18.686
There was a time I had trouble night and day

00:01:25.250 --> 00:01:26.370
Hello, Giles Robson.

00:01:26.432 --> 00:01:29.194
Welcome to the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast.

00:01:30.757 --> 00:01:31.177
How are you doing?

00:01:31.197 --> 00:01:31.759
Thanks for having me.

00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:33.641
Yeah, I'm good, Matt.

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So you grew up in Jersey, yeah?

00:01:36.364 --> 00:01:37.626
Yeah, I grew up in Jersey.

00:01:38.087 --> 00:01:40.671
So I moved from Jersey to London to Devon.

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And then now I live most of the time in France.

00:01:44.355 --> 00:01:46.138
Yeah, you certainly get around these days.

00:01:46.158 --> 00:01:47.179
That's what we'll get into.

00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.882
How was the music scene when you were growing up in Jersey?

00:01:49.942 --> 00:01:52.066
Was that a good place to nurture your talents?

00:01:52.641 --> 00:01:54.103
Do you know what it really was?

00:01:54.144 --> 00:02:07.623
Because it's a small island, nine miles by five, but there's at least, when I was in my 20s over here and when I was in my teenage years, there's at least about seven or eight places to regularly play in town.

00:02:08.405 --> 00:02:14.054
And then, because it's an offshore finance centre, you've got a lot of very rich bankers over here as well.

00:02:14.493 --> 00:02:15.336
You

00:02:15.376 --> 00:02:19.581
get to do weddings, big parties, corporate functions for the banks everywhere.

00:02:19.906 --> 00:02:21.968
And then there's the hotel scene.

00:02:22.008 --> 00:02:25.873
So you have the bars, the hotels, the weddings, the corporate functions and the parties.

00:02:25.933 --> 00:02:29.718
So you could stay busy pretty much all year round, you know.

00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:30.840
Oh, that's excellent.

00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:33.544
Yeah, you do find there are little pockets like that around.

00:02:33.604 --> 00:02:40.413
I grew up in Lancashire and there was quite a good blues scene there because we had the Colne and the Blues Festivals nearby.

00:02:40.473 --> 00:02:44.157
So that kind of drew, you know, that kind of scene a little bit as well.

00:02:44.437 --> 00:02:47.141
So what got you started off playing the harmonica?

00:02:47.521 --> 00:03:08.062
What happened was I played violin and then I was one of these kids that was into old movies when I was growing up because way back then all the TV stations used to play all the classic Hollywood movies and I really fell in love with big band sort of swing music so I took up the saxophone.

00:03:08.514 --> 00:03:12.039
And, you know, learned a bit of that up to, you know, quite a good level.

00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:15.985
But the saxophone teacher that I had, he hated all the older stuff.

00:03:16.006 --> 00:03:20.432
He wanted me to play acid jazz, which was very much in vogue at that time, you know.

00:03:20.652 --> 00:03:23.317
So you grew up on quite a jazz theme, did you?

00:03:23.377 --> 00:03:25.420
Yeah, well, I was really into it.

00:03:25.540 --> 00:03:33.774
And he got me started playing some Charlie Parker heads and starting to improvise, you know, on jazz tunes.

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So he taught me the basics of improvisation.

00:03:36.578 --> 00:03:46.211
but I sort of zoned out of it because the acid jazz really didn't have that sort of 30s and 40s raunch, you know, the swing sound.

00:03:47.532 --> 00:03:54.320
I think I'd heard the harmonica on Flash Prince of Bel-Air and Roseanne, you know, the Roseanne theme tune.

00:03:54.420 --> 00:03:56.243
Oh, the Roseanne was a great theme tune, yes.

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It was great.

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I think it was John Duke Logan who played on that.

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MUSIC PLAYS

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I was in Spain on a school art trip when I was 14 years old, and we went around the Toledo in Spain, went to a little music shop, and I picked up a blues harp.

00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:32.601
And as soon as I got back to Jersey, literally a week of getting back to Jersey, there was a CFAS and Wiggins, an African-American harmonica and guitar duo at our local art center.

00:04:33.346 --> 00:04:35.228
Yeah, I know them well.

00:04:35.269 --> 00:04:38.773
I've seen Wiggins, isn't it, the harmonica player?

00:04:38.954 --> 00:04:39.774
Yeah, yeah.

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I saw him play a couple of years ago.

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His song, Burn Your Bridges, is one of my favorite songs.

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And I can still visually remember it.

00:05:03.351 --> 00:05:14.067
I think he was playing Special Twenties and I can still remember him sitting on the stage and this big, you know, he did like an opening chugging instrumental, you know, fast instrumental on the harp.

00:05:14.127 --> 00:05:16.771
And John Super said, I still don't know how he does that.

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You know, it was a really, you know, it was a turning point for me.

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And then I went to the local music store, got a book on how to play.

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and a little Tate Hohner Tate cassette and Harping It Easy by Slim Harpo McCluskey.

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And yeah, that was it, man.

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I just dove into it.

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You started playing violin first to saxophone.

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What sort of age were you doing those to?

00:05:44.569 --> 00:05:49.877
Well, I think I took up violin at seven or eight, saxophone at about 12, and then harmonica at 14.

00:05:50.297 --> 00:05:52.120
Do you still play violin and saxophone at all?

00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:53.641
No, I don't touch them.

00:05:53.985 --> 00:06:02.754
I noticed with, you know, with school friends and stuff, the more they started dabbling in different instruments, the less they got, you know, sort of diluted their purpose, you know.

00:06:03.456 --> 00:06:09.322
I've heard the story about you winning this competition playing huchikuchi at your school.

00:06:10.142 --> 00:06:13.726
Yeah, well, I had, from what I remember, the house band fell apart.

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You know, we're in different houses.

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We had a house music competition, which, funnily enough, I went and judged at the old school this year, which is a real...

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It was only harmonica players.

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There were no harmonica players.

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It's a disgrace.

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My legacy has meant nothing.

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No, I went up there and so I came in and I said, and I was an unknown quantity.

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I think I went to the blues and eventually I pursued them and we won.

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And that sort of defined me at school from then on in.

00:06:40.983 --> 00:06:42.485
I think I was about 15 or 16.

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So really the harmonica, you know, from an early age has defined who I am and what I do, you know.

00:06:47.970 --> 00:06:50.494
So you were pretty cool then at school, were you, as a harmonica player?

00:06:50.954 --> 00:06:56.482
It was really well with season, and then I started geeking out in pubs and stuff from about the age of 16 onwards.

00:06:56.783 --> 00:07:06.175
I played with a lot of much older musicians, and it was everything to me, and I really fell in love with it and was obsessed by it.

00:07:06.877 --> 00:07:15.730
Back then as well, there was less ways of hearing, because now you can hear and see, which is the most amazing thing.

00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:17.812
You can see all the stuff on YouTube.

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You can hear and see everything.

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Back then, there was very limited ways of hearing it.

00:07:22.499 --> 00:07:29.209
So we had the Charlie Blues Masterwork series when I was learning and various other albums.

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But there was a couple of documentaries on TV like Sweet Home Chicago, which is an omnibus documentary that I had videotaped.

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But yeah, I really got obsessed and deeply into it.

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Yeah, I remember the same.

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I bought some of those cheap albums that were like$2.99 from Woolworths or whatever.

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I had a Muddy Waters one, a Little Walter one.

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They were the first I heard.

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The good one was Muddy Waters' Rock Beat.

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That was the one that really stuck out because it had Little Walter's harp really at his best behind Muddy.

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Were you singing back then as well when you started playing?

00:08:03.083 --> 00:08:04.745
Yeah, I've always sung.

00:08:04.766 --> 00:08:07.089
I always remember listening to Sonny Boy.

00:08:07.362 --> 00:08:17.454
and liking the offhand way he's, I mean, he still, he had the pain in his voice and the emotion, but I like the contrast of the offhand way he's thrown with the, you know, the sort of the passion of the harmonica.

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¶¶¶¶

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I was always going for a more of a spoken sort of singing thing, you know?

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Yeah.

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When I listened to all those old Chicago singers, they're doing sort of almost like a prototype hip-hop thing.

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You know, that's where I started off.

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And I've always sung.

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And, you know, it sort of got better over the years.

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But I've always had a real resilience to singing too melodically and technically over the top of the music.

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Because I felt that it was...

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And, of course, back then there were a lot of, you know, in the 90s there were people like Gary Moore and...

00:09:04.385 --> 00:09:32.392
one of these people you know that that had um that were quite popular but i didn't like the blues rock by a singing which is a you know sort of really really melodic and overly emotional you know i like the the sunny boys sort of tougher more rhythmical way of singing you know and those guys like somebody especially they seem to be singing in a very laid-back way but they're still putting a lot behind it aren't they that's uh that is the the thing about the blues is like it's a sort of a deceptive thing.

00:09:32.451 --> 00:09:35.457
It's being laid back, but at the same time, powerfully emotional.

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And it's that push and pull that is, you know, the unique thing about the music.

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What about the place in the band, you know, being the singer and the harmonica player?

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Obviously, you get a lot of great harmonica players who are a singer as well.

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And then some of them are just sidemen.

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Would you see much difference, you know, about being the leader of the band and the singer?

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What does that bring to you?

00:09:55.330 --> 00:10:00.538
I think that it gives, well, firstly, it gives you more control over the band and more control over your situation.

00:10:01.099 --> 00:10:14.580
What I've learned from the music is you have to be, with blues music, you have to be a really good showman as well, you know, and you have to, you know, you have to plan your set because it works completely differently to any other sort of music.

00:10:14.961 --> 00:10:20.830
Blues is completely, it's why it baffles a lot, the music baffles a lot of people, especially a lot of musicians.

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As a singer and a frontman, you have to have the banter.

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It makes a difference how you pace your set.

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You can't go up there and just...

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You have to really read the audience and pace your songs accordingly, how you lead them through it.

00:10:37.743 --> 00:10:45.852
And people like Muddy Waters, part of their success and part of their showmanship was the set, the whole...

00:10:47.042 --> 00:11:02.046
you know, if you listen to, especially in the seventies, if you listen to Muddy Waters, the way he, you know, the way that he planned out his set, because it was always the same, you know, with that seventies band, it's sort of like the, you know, the peaks and troughs and the way it goes through is genius, you know?

00:11:02.066 --> 00:11:08.256
So, so it's all, all of that is, is part and parcel of it because the music itself is so simple.

00:11:08.616 --> 00:11:19.563
It's, it's, it's simple because it gives you a sort of a, a platform to be a showman, to be a preacher, you know, because a lot of the blues frontman technique came out of being a preacher, you know, from preachers.

00:11:20.326 --> 00:11:28.419
You know, you have to, it's not just about the singing, it's about the showmanship, it's about the communication with the audience, it's about the dynamics, it's about the spontaneity.

00:11:28.520 --> 00:11:33.450
It's a completely different bag than finely structured rock songs.

00:11:33.953 --> 00:11:36.557
Yeah, and I really noticed that watching you play.

00:11:36.576 --> 00:11:39.360
You're a big guy, you've got a big presence up there.

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I think that really helps as well, carry you through.

00:11:41.662 --> 00:11:50.893
You definitely have that big character side to you, which you get with people like Woody Waters and Howling Wolf, that sort of big character.

00:11:50.932 --> 00:11:53.095
So yeah, you definitely have that presence on stage.

00:11:53.576 --> 00:11:59.261
I think it helps being a bit older as well, because these guys hit their prime in their 40s.

00:11:59.745 --> 00:12:07.998
And I think that it's the sort of music as well that, you know, it needs to sound like you've played it like hundreds of times and you're still enjoying it.

00:12:09.038 --> 00:12:20.455
And as I've got older, you know, I've noticed how it's not quite so successful with, you know, 20s and early 30s somethings because they don't quite look like they've lived it yet or they've lived life, you know.

00:12:20.754 --> 00:12:22.037
And how old are you now?

00:12:22.658 --> 00:12:23.558
Well, I'm 41 now.

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Living life's a big part of it in the blues, isn't it?

00:12:26.543 --> 00:12:28.365
Feeling those blues and getting that emotion.

00:12:28.802 --> 00:12:30.585
Do you remember the first harmonica you bought?

00:12:30.605 --> 00:12:31.466
You said it was a blues harp.

00:12:31.485 --> 00:12:32.687
Was that a Homer blues harp?

00:12:33.528 --> 00:12:34.730
Yeah, that was a Homer blues harp.

00:12:34.750 --> 00:12:37.053
It was one of the riveted ones, not the MS ones.

00:12:37.073 --> 00:12:42.061
I think I stayed on blues harps and then maybe Special Twenties.

00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:47.388
So I first saw you playing in Oxford, I think in the Bullingdon pub.

00:12:48.970 --> 00:12:54.177
What sort of year did you start more seriously, you know, playing with a band and touring around?

00:12:54.850 --> 00:13:16.907
I think it was, I started again, we went to a party in Jersey, and there was a really rich guy there, and he gave us 10,000, we never got the whole amount of money in the end, and I should have just got the whole amount of money off him to begin with, but he offered us 10 grand to sponsorship, you know, to get us going, and I just thought, I think in the end we spent about a grand.

00:13:17.067 --> 00:13:19.211
How old were you then?

00:13:19.331 --> 00:13:21.214
I think I was about 29, 28, 28, 29.

00:13:21.666 --> 00:13:25.631
I'd done a little EP called The Dirty Eighths, One Good Reason.

00:13:25.731 --> 00:13:32.322
That had, you know, had quite a lot of success on MySpace and Sugar Blue had bigged it up.

00:13:32.682 --> 00:13:34.224
It was just basic blues.

00:13:34.764 --> 00:13:48.946
And, you know, I was working as an illustrator and a graphic designer, but then I started to try and, you know, really push it and take it seriously, you know, and started getting artists over to Jersey and did tentative, you know, sort of little dips into the UK and stuff.

00:13:49.346 --> 00:13:57.875
We backed an American artist, and after that, in 2011, I went to Poland and recorded my debut album, which is Crooked Heart of Mine.

00:13:58.514 --> 00:14:04.822
And the opening track, Mighty Incinerator, got played by Chris Evans on Radio 2.

00:14:04.841 --> 00:14:16.734
He rode a train to the mighty incinerator He rode a train to the mighty incinerator He rode a train to the mighty incinerator Deep down and all around

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That was the first time they'd ever had a track played on mainstream radio from the Blues show.

00:14:30.361 --> 00:14:32.544
And then it sort of went downhill from there.

00:14:33.686 --> 00:14:34.167
It was weird.

00:14:34.868 --> 00:14:42.318
The first album was very highly critically received, but I wouldn't say it was a massive hit among the Blues fans.

00:14:42.619 --> 00:14:44.381
I was desperately trying to cross over a bit.

00:14:44.738 --> 00:14:49.187
So when you said crossover, you were trying to make it not entirely a blues album, do you think?

00:14:49.207 --> 00:14:55.621
Yeah, it had lots of different styles, you know, listening to Tom Waits, and it was, you know, it was a good album.

00:14:55.682 --> 00:15:02.597
People still, you know, people still come up with copies of it to get me to sign it when I'm in Europe and even in the UK, and people still enjoy it.

00:15:02.946 --> 00:15:05.687
So that was 2011 Crooked Heart and Mine was it?

00:15:05.707 --> 00:15:36.755
2011 and then we did a punk in 2012 I managed to get more sponsorship from people to do a punk blues crossover because I was really into the Black Keys and Jack White and we did that and again it didn't it just you know it was hard to sell it and especially with the harmonica over the top it was you know people didn't know whether it was blues or rock and it was two blues for rock and two rock for blues so it sat in a a netherland between the two genres and I did I always remember it I did a gig with With that lineup, we had some great responses from younger audiences.

00:15:37.436 --> 00:15:44.982
But whenever we went in front of a traditional blues festival audience, largely older, half the audience would love it, half the audience would just not impress.

00:15:45.082 --> 00:15:49.167
So we did this big blues rock festival with number four, Dr.

00:15:49.226 --> 00:15:51.369
Feelgood, who had, I think, one original member.

00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:55.432
And they came on and did all the old blues classics and their own classics.

00:15:55.712 --> 00:15:58.395
The songs were very structured.

00:15:58.416 --> 00:16:00.638
We'd written very tightly structured songs.

00:16:00.961 --> 00:16:02.004
pop songs, basically.

00:16:02.024 --> 00:16:02.945
They were pop structures.

00:16:03.625 --> 00:16:05.368
And I just wasn't enjoying playing them live.

00:16:05.389 --> 00:16:09.094
You know, I enjoyed writing them and doing them in the studio, but I didn't enjoy playing them live.

00:16:09.134 --> 00:16:11.677
And then I just had a, it was like a turning point.

00:16:11.738 --> 00:16:13.519
I was just, I've got to just do 12 Bar Blues.

00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:14.701
I love 12 Bar Blues.

00:16:15.363 --> 00:16:20.390
And I could feel how, you know, how much more I could get an audience by doing 12 Bar Blues.

00:16:20.451 --> 00:16:23.796
And it was my sort of, you know, my eureka moment.

00:16:23.936 --> 00:16:26.318
And then after that, I went back to the record label.

00:16:26.359 --> 00:16:30.164
We recorded an album called For Those Who Need the Blues in an Afternoon.

00:16:39.586 --> 00:16:46.413
And

00:16:46.452 --> 00:16:58.063
put it to the record label, and then it, you know, my career saw, as soon as I went back, putting my harp style over the top, which isn't, you know, purely traditional, then it really took off, you know.

00:16:58.624 --> 00:17:04.210
So basically, it took a few years to get right, to figure out, you know, to figure out where I stood.

00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:05.891
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

00:17:05.911 --> 00:17:11.809
Like you say, well, maybe you were thinking, you know, who likes traditional blues anymore, particularly younger people.

00:17:11.849 --> 00:17:13.491
I need to make it a bit more mainstream.

00:17:13.511 --> 00:17:18.678
So you tried that and you saw that actually, you know, it was quite well received, but maybe not as much as you like.

00:17:18.718 --> 00:17:23.104
So going back to the more traditional stuff, have you found that is then more popular with the younger people?

00:17:23.443 --> 00:17:28.510
It's actually much more popular with the younger people because, you know, we're living in the funny times of music.

00:17:28.550 --> 00:17:31.914
Rock has basically died as a contemporary force.

00:17:32.435 --> 00:17:36.981
And that's largely because of streaming, because no record company can afford to tour a rock band anymore.

00:17:37.281 --> 00:17:50.509
What I also figured out was no one knows how to take a rock band with a harmonica over the top doing lots of different solos because we're sort of at the end of, you know, in terms of band music, we're sort of a bit at the end of music history at the moment.

00:17:51.105 --> 00:17:55.753
Nothing new is coming along because of, you know, because of streaming and the limited finances.

00:17:55.854 --> 00:17:59.621
And, you know, everyone's doing sort of electronic stuff, whereas a one-man band like Ed Sloan.

00:18:00.041 --> 00:18:05.290
You know, you've done tremendously well, you know, in getting touring, and we'll get into that as we go through.

00:18:05.330 --> 00:18:09.116
But, you know, the success you've had touring around has just been amazing, obviously.

00:18:09.602 --> 00:18:12.105
Did you write a lyric for most of the lyrics of the song?

00:18:12.145 --> 00:18:15.089
Yeah, yeah, all of those are mine, you know.

00:18:15.490 --> 00:18:19.856
Yeah, because I think that's a really distinctive part of it, that dirty-looking, sneaky grin.

00:18:20.136 --> 00:18:21.479
Great lyrics on that song.

00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:52.520
I don't need to ask you, darling What shape our love is in I don't need to ask you, darling The,

00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:58.428
you know, Fearless Leaders as well, Way Past Midnight, really enjoyed that one too.

00:18:58.528 --> 00:19:05.477
So, yeah, bringing that sort of modern edge to the blues, you know, and bringing those modern lyrics to the blues as well, I think is important, isn't it?

00:19:06.178 --> 00:19:17.172
Yeah, well, I think what we found with the, what we found with, and what I found personally with the music is that, firstly, the most important thing is that is the chord changes.

00:19:17.972 --> 00:19:23.503
Over and above anything else, it's the familiarity of the 12-bar chord changes that give you an anchor.

00:19:24.144 --> 00:19:33.261
So you can write a melodic riff, and as long as you keep the chord changes, you can put any groove underneath you want, as long as you've got those chord changes.

00:19:33.843 --> 00:19:36.587
So when you're writing blues, so you don't...

00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:42.800
You only have to take it a little bit out of the tradition.

00:19:43.502 --> 00:19:50.698
My guitarist wasn't per se a traditional blues guitarist, although he could play blues, but he was more a rock jazz guitarist.

00:19:51.619 --> 00:20:13.357
And just these little twists and little twists in the lyrics but really respecting how blues lyrics work because blues lyrics are the best written lyrics in the history of music because they're real and they're very perceptive and they're very economic with how they're sort of describing the life situations that they're dealing with.

00:20:14.078 --> 00:20:17.744
So once you have respect for that, then it gives you a really...

00:20:18.306 --> 00:20:25.837
a really open palette, you know, a really large palette to work with within a very restricted structure, which is the beauty of it.

00:20:25.877 --> 00:20:38.857
Because a lot of people that are in the blues scene, you know, when they're trying to do something new, they just say, oh, we're going to get rid of the predictable 12 bar, and then they start going into rock structures and pop structures, and it just loses what the music's about, you know.

00:20:38.917 --> 00:20:46.388
Once you've lived your life a bit and you've gone through these situations, like all these blues guys have done, you know, because with the blues guys, you know, they look at a...

00:20:46.849 --> 00:20:53.597
They look at it like a relationship, and they stand back from it, analyze it in a sort of a wry sort of fashion.

00:20:53.758 --> 00:21:00.465
With blues, you're looking at the situation with humor, but you're actually still quite upset by it, if you know what I mean.

00:21:00.567 --> 00:21:01.768
So there's that sort of push and pull.

00:21:02.249 --> 00:21:06.693
So moving on through your albums, last year you had a great, successful year.

00:21:06.713 --> 00:21:08.215
I mean, an unbelievable year, really.

00:21:08.236 --> 00:21:11.839
You must be pinching yourself about how well your two albums went.

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:16.425
So first of all, is Journey to the Heart the first you did last year?

00:21:16.865 --> 00:21:28.099
Journey to the Heart of the Blues was recorded in New York in January 2018, and then it was released at the end of October 2018 on Alligator Records.

00:21:28.361 --> 00:21:32.365
You're the first British blues artist on Alligator Records?

00:21:32.926 --> 00:21:33.527
That's right.

00:21:33.708 --> 00:21:40.576
I'm on their artist list just under Fenton Robinson, which is a real honour for me, because he was an amazing artist.

00:21:41.057 --> 00:21:44.882
So how did it come about you playing with the American guys for that album?

00:21:45.122 --> 00:21:49.131
I met Jonas Walker at a festival just outside of Amsterdam.

00:21:49.551 --> 00:21:56.267
Yeah, it was great because he'd heard of me and he asked me up on stage to jam and then we talked for two or three hours afterwards.

00:21:56.508 --> 00:21:59.114
And I said to him then, would you be interested in doing something?

00:21:59.996 --> 00:22:00.676
And he said, yeah.

00:22:01.077 --> 00:22:21.551
And then I was touring around listening to a lot of acoustic stuff, you know, by Muddy and Junior Wells, and, you know, to do an album like this with someone like Joe, who can really, can really sing, but with his albums, he's very rock influenced, you know, and I'd love to just record an album with him, with my harmonica up close to that voice, you know, and have him, you know, just doing one thing, just playing straight blues, you know.

00:22:22.031 --> 00:22:32.541
I contacted him, and then I contacted my label in Holland, and yeah, they were up for it, so they financed it, and then we went out to New York and recorded it, and yeah, it's just done really well, you know.

00:22:32.642 --> 00:22:35.846
It's probably the only acoustic album I've heard you playing, is that right?

00:22:36.507 --> 00:22:40.432
Yeah, and I really love playing acoustic harp.

00:22:40.792 --> 00:22:41.894
Yeah, I mean, it sounds great.

00:22:41.914 --> 00:22:46.560
It's got a beautiful atmosphere to it, and of course it went on to win an award, yeah?

00:22:47.182 --> 00:22:50.567
Yeah, so that was a real experience in Memphis.

00:22:51.147 --> 00:22:53.130
They didn't know who I was.

00:22:54.972 --> 00:22:55.773
They do now.

00:22:55.938 --> 00:22:56.638
They do now, yeah.

00:22:56.659 --> 00:22:56.999
It was great.

00:22:57.038 --> 00:22:57.440
It was great.

00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:58.721
You know, we performed there.

00:22:59.221 --> 00:23:01.044
I went on to Memphis Breakfast Television.

00:23:01.325 --> 00:23:01.785
Great.

00:23:01.825 --> 00:23:02.546
Well done for that.

00:23:03.067 --> 00:23:03.667
Yeah, I was really happy.

00:23:03.708 --> 00:23:09.535
And hopefully, you know, I'm thinking about future projects once this, once the coronavirus is over and done with.

00:23:09.575 --> 00:23:14.020
And hopefully we'll try and get to do something else like that with American, you know, with some American artists.

00:23:14.761 --> 00:23:16.084
Yeah, I mean, a couple of really good songs.

00:23:16.243 --> 00:23:18.046
I really like the Mean Old Train on that album.

00:23:18.066 --> 00:23:19.468
It's a great opener to the album.

00:23:21.009 --> 00:23:21.150
Wow, wow.

00:23:28.673 --> 00:23:31.858
And the

00:23:38.028 --> 00:23:39.971
G&J Boogie as well.

00:23:40.011 --> 00:23:41.554
You do a really good instrumental.

00:23:41.574 --> 00:23:44.578
You always have some good strong instrumentals on your album.

00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:47.463
Any particular approach to the way you do instrumentals?

00:23:48.285 --> 00:23:51.390
Well, I think you're just trying to tell a story, you know.

00:23:51.617 --> 00:24:02.653
And I remember on that album, you know, because I use the upper register a lot, and I remember on that album, I said to myself, dip into the upper register once on every solo, you know, once on every solo, so you're not overdoing it.

00:24:02.814 --> 00:24:17.955
Because the weird thing about the harmonica is that, you know, there was no real progress on the instrument until Sugar Blue and, I guess, Billy Branch as well in the 80s and 90s started, you know, diving into that upper register, you know.

00:24:17.976 --> 00:24:18.916
So everyone really...

00:24:19.554 --> 00:24:23.626
relates everything, not even to Sonny Moore, but mainly to Little Walter.

00:24:23.827 --> 00:24:36.218
So everyone's used to hearing the reins that Little Walter plays on, but they're not so used to hearing the upper register, you know, employed in the in the instrument, at least until the 80s or 90s.

00:24:36.498 --> 00:24:37.778
It's a real strong part of your style.

00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:46.951
I went through a period a good few years ago when I said, right, I've got to make sure I'm playing the upper register as well, because you're not using almost half the instrument if you're not doing it.

00:24:47.171 --> 00:24:49.113
It's just like, why wouldn't you use it?

00:24:49.233 --> 00:24:51.957
And there's some great sounds you can get up there, some great effects.

00:24:52.136 --> 00:24:57.002
It's incredible, and you notice it with audiences.

00:24:57.022 --> 00:25:18.347
It really makes audiences' ears crack up you know you can just see it but the only the funny thing is I put in my latest album Don't Give Up On The Blues I sort of put in your dirty look and your sneaky grin as a sort of a trap for the traditional blues critics as a sort of a because I play that one incredibly straight.

00:25:18.488 --> 00:25:22.792
It's almost completely derivative Little Walter, although it's my own take on it.

00:25:23.212 --> 00:25:43.773
Some of the real purist critics can't handle the upper register stuff because it's unfamiliar to them, which is a real shame because you can still play the upper register and make it sound bluesy because you can almost do stuff that they do on planners with the range that you get and the runs that you can do.

00:25:43.938 --> 00:25:53.756
In terms of instrumentals, just telling a story, you know, and keeping the audience interested and varying the riffs, and I love playing instrumentals as well, so it's a lot of fun.

00:25:54.317 --> 00:26:03.463
So, Don't Give Up on the Blues, that's your most recent album, yeah, and that's Back to your more kind of traditional kind of hard driven sound that you have.

00:26:03.703 --> 00:26:08.530
You talked about you learning saxophone when you were younger and being into swing music from the 1940s.

00:26:08.770 --> 00:26:12.175
You definitely have a strong sense of swing to your sound, don't you?

00:26:12.195 --> 00:26:14.538
I think that's a real characteristic sound of your band.

00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:29.895
When I was growing up and listening to blues harp players, I was like, a lot of the next generation white American players were lacking something, something that's not giving me that shiver up the spine thing that all the African-American players had.

00:26:29.935 --> 00:26:38.722
You know, even to someone as basic in technique as Howling Wolf, you know, he's a genius on the harmonica, but he's a very basic, he's got very basic technique.

00:26:38.743 --> 00:26:46.549
I've had gig situations where, you know, you're playing with another harmonica player and you're having a bit of a battle on stage and it's that rhythm that really gets the audience.

00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:53.135
So, you know, if people out there are going to study anything, try and study the rhythm, you know, how these players...

00:26:53.135 --> 00:26:53.817
like Little Walter.

00:26:53.836 --> 00:27:00.588
I mean, Little Walter had an ultimate sense of swing, so you've got to really try and get that, you know, and then you'll notice a world of difference.

00:27:01.130 --> 00:27:04.875
So they don't give up on the blues albums, also recorded in America, is that right?

00:27:05.457 --> 00:27:06.959
Well, I was very lucky, because I really...

00:27:07.901 --> 00:27:17.616
Bruce Katz, the pianist on Jonas to the Heart of the Blues, we did a little tour, and we got on very well, and, you know, he was impressed with what I was doing, and suggested that...

00:27:18.306 --> 00:27:24.516
He got a record deal with his record label, American Showplace, in New Jersey.

00:27:24.596 --> 00:27:25.798
So they were really up for it.

00:27:26.638 --> 00:27:28.362
Yeah, and of course, that's a lot of success.

00:27:28.422 --> 00:27:29.523
You've been at the top of what?

00:27:29.544 --> 00:27:33.530
Is it the Roots Music Chart for many weeks, isn't it?

00:27:33.631 --> 00:27:35.294
It's done really well.

00:27:35.374 --> 00:27:38.939
It was Mojo number three album of the year, which is a great accolade.

00:27:40.261 --> 00:27:41.824
Yeah, it's done incredibly well.

00:27:41.844 --> 00:27:42.746
It's had great reviews.

00:27:43.185 --> 00:27:45.289
We've sold out shows in Lyon, Paris.

00:27:45.634 --> 00:27:46.997
And everything was looking good.

00:27:47.037 --> 00:27:50.325
And then the coronavirus has come along, which has been a real shame.

00:27:50.345 --> 00:27:55.135
So we don't know what's going to happen, you know, how long that's going to go on and what's going to happen there.

00:27:55.195 --> 00:27:57.821
But it was really doing very well, you know.

00:27:58.049 --> 00:28:02.557
Yeah, so when we talked about earlier on about how obviously streaming's changed things so drastically in the music.

00:28:02.597 --> 00:28:12.835
So when you get a big successful album like that and you're number one in the roots music charts or something, are you getting much income off that or is it just leading you to getting gigs and getting into festivals and things like that?

00:28:12.894 --> 00:28:18.986
Really, really, really everything now is about selling the CDs live.

00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:19.950
And

00:28:20.010 --> 00:28:29.443
if you're doing, you've got to get a good deal where you get a good price back from the record label, which I did with this record label.

00:28:29.463 --> 00:28:35.231
There's a great guy, Ben Elliott, who unfortunately passed away this week, who runs the label.

00:28:35.271 --> 00:28:40.558
But you've really got to make your money on the live sales because there's no other way of making it.

00:28:41.861 --> 00:28:44.084
And you use the CD as a PR tool.

00:28:44.625 --> 00:28:45.326
That's it.

00:28:45.546 --> 00:28:46.508
It's a PR tool.

00:28:46.708 --> 00:28:47.669
It sells what you do.

00:28:48.417 --> 00:29:11.653
um you you know you try and make the the album cover as much of an advertisement for what you do as well and for the music as possible i mean i think that uh you know the days of abstract album covers are you know at least for this business you know you I always put myself on the front, playing an instrument, you know, on the front with a harmonica, block capital letters, and it's unfortunate, it's just not what it was, you know.

00:29:11.854 --> 00:29:14.416
You're in that nice blues suit on that album, aren't you?

00:29:14.436 --> 00:29:20.343
Well, I got that for the, I got that, I actually bought that, especially for the Blues Music Awards, you know, and then I had that afterwards for the covers.

00:29:20.702 --> 00:29:23.566
And didn't you do a Little Walter tribute album at one point as well?

00:29:23.986 --> 00:29:34.106
Yeah, we did a, it was just, it was for Honey Boy Amps, it was a duo, it was Chris Corcoran and myself, the great British blues guitarist, and sort of jump and rockabilly guitarist.

00:29:34.669 --> 00:29:38.382
Yeah, we did an album of Little Walter Instrumentals, but just a duo.

00:29:38.804 --> 00:29:41.212
The other thing which you're really well known for is...

00:29:41.698 --> 00:29:46.321
bringing these big American artists over to Europe to tour, such as Billy Branch and Sugar Blue.

00:29:46.382 --> 00:29:48.002
So how did that come about?

00:29:48.044 --> 00:29:52.227
You mentioned Sugar Blue early on and was a fan of one of your songs.

00:29:52.287 --> 00:29:53.248
Is that how you...

00:29:53.288 --> 00:30:05.398
Yeah, I mean, I didn't really want to be a promoter, but living in Jersey, I thought it might be a good way, if we brought the artist over to Jersey, it might be a good way of not having to tour so much to get well-known.

00:30:05.419 --> 00:30:07.941
And it sort of worked, but it doesn't really work.

00:30:07.961 --> 00:30:14.689
There's nothing that'd be touring for getting your brand out there and for the up a fan base and getting a reputation.

00:30:15.029 --> 00:30:21.019
I bought Shaker Blue, he was the first, I think he was the first guy that I bought over and we put him on in Jersey, had a massive success with it.

00:30:21.381 --> 00:30:27.171
And yeah, I learned sort of the business of promoting and being a booking agent and stuff.

00:30:28.073 --> 00:30:29.494
And that's been fun.

00:30:29.595 --> 00:30:32.780
And Billy Branch and I, he's the one I work with the most.

00:30:32.820 --> 00:30:41.396
He's a really really intelligent guy and a great guy to work with and a big influence on my playing and also a big influence on my showmanship as well.

00:30:41.917 --> 00:30:43.342
He's a real master.

00:30:45.089 --> 00:30:48.854
So it's been a real education as well as a business choice, you know.

00:30:49.314 --> 00:30:50.736
Well, I think it's been a great move from you.

00:30:50.776 --> 00:30:52.218
You know, it's really helped raise your profile.

00:30:52.238 --> 00:30:55.500
And for me, obviously, I run the gig list on the Harmonica UK website.

00:30:55.621 --> 00:31:00.586
You know, to get those gigs across, to get those artists across, I mean, it's a massive feather in your cap, you know, and well done.

00:31:00.605 --> 00:31:02.407
And it's definitely raised your profile hugely.

00:31:02.448 --> 00:31:03.930
So I think it's been a great move for you.

00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:07.012
Maybe it's been a lot of work for you, but hopefully it's paid off for you.

00:31:07.733 --> 00:31:10.376
It's a stressful thing to do.

00:31:10.557 --> 00:31:11.037
And you have to...

00:31:11.874 --> 00:31:18.404
So, I mean, you know, a lot of times you don't make money, but you do it as a loss leader to sort of, you know, to get your name up there.

00:31:19.567 --> 00:31:22.611
But it's a hard, you know, it's a hard...

00:31:23.573 --> 00:31:29.482
The problem with the scene is that people aren't nurturing and letting enough young talent into it.

00:31:30.243 --> 00:31:35.092
You know, largely because the older talent is still viable.

00:31:35.211 --> 00:31:37.255
And rightly so, because a lot of these people are geniuses.

00:31:37.275 --> 00:31:38.277
You know, Billy's a genius.

00:31:39.233 --> 00:32:07.980
how old you are on stage and actually if you're older they have more respect there's um you know so the big challenge for the blues scene is to really try and nurture some new talent in as well as the old talent you talk there about obviously bringing young talent through have you got any particular tips for you know young bands coming through about how to make it in the blues scene which uh i guess it's pretty tough these days i did um I did a 14-day tour of Spain last year.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.306
It was full of young people in the audience because it was handled by rock promoters.

00:32:13.227 --> 00:32:20.895
And they just sort of put it, I guess they just put it through the channels, but they still got a massive amount of young people in and an older blues fan.

00:32:21.135 --> 00:32:25.882
I did one show at a tattoo parlor and it was full of young people.

00:32:25.922 --> 00:32:32.890
I think we've almost got to start again promoting it and trying to get...

00:32:33.698 --> 00:32:35.580
more viable places going, you know.

00:32:35.681 --> 00:32:38.785
Yeah, so you think a lot of the secret is in that promotion?

00:32:38.884 --> 00:32:45.374
It is, you know, because a lot of the older clubs, you know, just through age, are losing a lot of their audience.

00:32:46.215 --> 00:32:54.307
One club I went to said they lost, you know, in the last 10 years, they lost about 25% of their audience just because people are, you know, sadly passing away due to age.

00:32:54.988 --> 00:33:08.925
But there's nothing, you know, there's nothing to stop a younger promoter coming in and you know, all the artists themselves, you know, trying to put on, you know, put on, you know, a blue shirt and something like that.

00:33:09.067 --> 00:33:18.556
I think there's a perception these days that with all the extra distractions, you know, of computers and all these things that are available, that young people have lost interest in music.

00:33:18.576 --> 00:33:19.476
But I don't see that.

00:33:19.536 --> 00:33:21.959
You know, I've got a daughter, I've got nephews.

00:33:22.398 --> 00:33:25.541
They seem to be as into music as ever I was when I was younger.

00:33:25.582 --> 00:33:28.044
So I think that that passion for music is always there, isn't it?

00:33:28.064 --> 00:33:29.506
And you've got to tap into that.

00:33:29.953 --> 00:33:59.400
Yeah, and you know, it's, so we did this gig in Bergamo in northern Italy, a tattoo, and the audience was around six, you know, and they loved it, as good as any audience, but they were all under 30, about 70 people, because, you know, the tattoo parlor, the owner was a friend of my agent, and so my agent said, you know, could you put on a, can you put on a show, and he said yeah, and he just put it out to his email database who are all under 30 and they all came along.

00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:01.364
So it does work.

00:34:01.765 --> 00:34:06.634
Not trying to do some sort of naff music that is deliberately trying to appeal to them.

00:34:06.674 --> 00:34:07.175
Do you know what I

00:34:07.596 --> 00:34:07.676
mean?

00:34:07.696 --> 00:34:07.877
Yeah.

00:34:08.518 --> 00:34:09.240
Well, you know, it's great.

00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:11.605
Again, you could bring the younger audience to the blues.

00:34:11.666 --> 00:34:13.168
That would be a great success.

00:34:14.146 --> 00:34:20.815
And I think, you know, again, what you've done with doing the promotion of success, you know, I think a lot of it is down to your, you know, to your manner.

00:34:20.835 --> 00:34:23.380
You're a lovely guy, very easy to talk to, very friendly.

00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:26.364
I think that's been a big part of why you've been able to be successful.

00:34:27.045 --> 00:34:29.228
Um, so yeah, so, so well done on that.

00:34:29.369 --> 00:34:43.240
Can we move on a bit now just to talking about, we touched on some sort of influence and records early on, but just for, um, people who are interested in, um, obviously harmonica particularly in this podcast, um, What about some of your other favourite players?

00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:43.661
Who are they?

00:34:43.681 --> 00:34:49.889
And maybe some of your favourite albums and a few of your favourite songs, particularly that, you know, really grabbed you.

00:34:50.449 --> 00:34:53.153
I don't listen to many other people other than Little Walter.

00:34:53.193 --> 00:35:05.789
MUSIC PLAYS

00:35:15.681 --> 00:35:37.791
and Sonny Boyd and maybe Junior Wells as well and James Cotton.

00:35:38.072 --> 00:35:50.887
The only harmonica players I really engage with are those classic Chicago guys because They had something that, you know, and Billy Branch as well, Billy I listen to a lot too, especially his latest album, Roots and Branches, which is fantastic.

00:35:58.677 --> 00:36:05.346
I'll check that out, yeah, I haven't

00:36:05.405 --> 00:36:06.847
heard that yet.

00:36:06.887 --> 00:36:21.128
Yeah, it's really great, but, you know, I listen to a lot of other instruments as well, and And I just listen to really good blues artists, you know, because I'm a blues, I'm not just a harmonica player, I'm a blues artist and performer and showman.

00:36:21.809 --> 00:36:27.380
So I listen to a lot of other, you know, Buddy Guy, how they present a show and some of his playing.

00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.202
I try and copy some of the licks on my harp.

00:36:29.282 --> 00:36:35.634
Memphis Slim has been a massive, massive influence on me in terms of presentation and showmanship.

00:36:35.873 --> 00:36:39.039
and the blues pianist, and also attitude as well.

00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:39.699
He had a really...

00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:41.181
I read a lot of interviews.

00:36:41.202 --> 00:36:48.333
I had fortunately separated from the mother of my children a couple of years ago, and I went to live in France because I couldn't afford to live in London.

00:36:48.353 --> 00:36:56.666
So I had a little holiday apartment in France that I'd been renting out over the years and had paid it off.

00:36:56.686 --> 00:36:59.572
So I was like, right, I'm just going to go to France and commute back and forth.

00:37:00.594 --> 00:37:07.655
When I moved over there, someone sent me a photo of Memphis Slim on Paris Boulevard, standing beside his Rolls Royce.

00:37:08.516 --> 00:37:10.981
And I was like, wow.

00:37:11.380 --> 00:37:12.782
How did he do that?

00:37:12.963 --> 00:37:18.552
And I read up about him, and he really became a multimillionaire and a massive star in Europe.

00:37:20.153 --> 00:37:22.197
Just at the right time, he made the move.

00:37:22.697 --> 00:37:30.248
And I was reading interviews with him, and he would always go on about having a positive attitude and imagining stuff and making it happen and so on.

00:37:30.753 --> 00:37:31.155
um

00:37:31.695 --> 00:38:09.768
and and so he's been he's been a massive influence on me and it's quite it's a shame actually that not more is written and and uh uh discussed about memphis slim because he really is a strong role model for musicians because he achieved what a lot of the other um you know other musicians didn't achieve and he was by no means the most talented of all of the musicians but he you know through good business sense and positivity and and uh people skills he really you know pushed his career to sort of unimaginable heights you know but what his story was that he uh he taught a lot in the he had massive success in the 40s

00:38:15.355 --> 00:38:20.740
now i walked into a beer tavern to give a girl a nice time

00:38:21.501 --> 00:38:29.554
but then he's in america with a sort of jump blue style And, you know, he wrote Every Day I Have the Blues, which was taken up by Count Basie and B.B.

00:38:29.635 --> 00:38:31.836
King and another song with Come Back and Mother Earth.

00:38:32.478 --> 00:38:37.563
But then he sort of went out of fashion in the States in the 50s and sort of scuffling around a lot of the time with Willie Dixon.

00:38:38.244 --> 00:38:43.268
And they sort of invaded the Greenwich Village folk scene in the late 50s, early 60s.

00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:45.331
But I don't think they were a great fit there.

00:38:45.351 --> 00:38:51.217
And then as soon as he got over to Europe and to Paris, I think he could sense this is where I can make a lot of money.

00:38:51.317 --> 00:38:52.177
And then he just went for it.

00:38:52.737 --> 00:38:58.867
So he kind of tapped into that, you know, the blues coming over to Europe, did he, and really tapped into that, so good move, yeah, and helped bring that across.

00:38:59.487 --> 00:39:18.617
Yeah, so people like that, because it's hard, you know, because the blues guys weren't from, you know, highly educated backgrounds, and, you know, they weren't, you know, a lot of them got, unfortunately, you know, as artistic, you know, they were artistic geniuses, but they got taken advantage of by the business side of it, by the record labels and so on.

00:39:19.010 --> 00:39:19.610
He's

00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:26.199
a good example of someone who kept the copyrights on his publishing and really did a great job.

00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:34.510
And again, I think that shows that you've obviously done a lot of research into making your band a success, a big part of what you've managed to achieve.

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:36.432
So yeah, keep it up.

00:39:36.512 --> 00:39:38.534
I'm sure you'll have more good things coming along.

00:39:38.976 --> 00:39:43.041
Have you done much session work or is there any sort of recording?

00:39:43.501 --> 00:39:45.744
No, I haven't really done much session work.

00:39:46.978 --> 00:39:48.159
I don't know why.

00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:57.333
I've done a couple of little things here and there, one for 24 pesos and a couple of other smaller projects, but no session works.

00:39:58.014 --> 00:39:59.657
I've not really got into that scene so much.

00:40:00.057 --> 00:40:12.577
So yeah, moving on to your playing style, and obviously we touched on this earlier on you, you know, very rhythmical riffs, you know, the swinging, making the rhythms very strong in your music, playing up the high end.

00:40:12.597 --> 00:40:22.673
You know, these are all very characteristic to your playing, Any particular influences there, or what made you adopt that approach into your style of playing?

00:40:22.873 --> 00:40:41.996
Well, it's funny because I sort of, before I really, I went through Peter, after Sugar Blue got interested in my playing, I went through Peter really studying him, but I actually, I broke the upper register by listening to trumpet players and jazz players, you know, and gypsy jazz players, you know, just starting to...

00:40:43.202 --> 00:40:45.385
to really unlock that upper register.

00:40:45.425 --> 00:40:50.574
And then, you know, and it's really got endless possibilities.

00:40:50.733 --> 00:40:58.887
And I just wanted to get that, what I found, you know, I wanted to do it, you know, because, and then I found Sugar Blue and started studying what he did.

00:40:59.608 --> 00:41:19.202
But it's, yeah, that's been the thing that I've really, you know, been interested in incorporating into my style because it gives the audience a, a reft bite from what is quite mid-range, from the first six holes.

00:41:19.262 --> 00:41:33.559
It really offers a really strong contrast and counterpoint to everything that's going on from holes one to six, and it can be quite a nice little mandatory note in there as well.

00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.382
You mentioned Sugar Blue, obviously.

00:41:36.706 --> 00:41:38.851
you know, I would have thought that he would be an influencer.

00:41:38.891 --> 00:41:40.253
I mean, he does some incredible things.

00:41:40.333 --> 00:41:45.485
I'll certainly, any particular one of his songs that you'd recommend people would listen to.

00:41:46.065 --> 00:41:56.710
Funnily enough, if you go to his album Blue Blazers, which I think is his best, there's Just To Be With You and One More Mile are my favourites of his.

00:42:14.177 --> 00:42:17.425
And those are the ones that I started to copy some stuff off of, you know.

00:42:17.585 --> 00:42:23.400
Yeah, the playing on Just to Be With You and One More Mile.

00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:25.766
You can take, you know, you can get a lot of stuff out of that.

00:42:25.806 --> 00:42:29.353
And also he's interesting because he doesn't...

00:42:29.715 --> 00:42:32.601
I base my playing, my route...

00:42:33.282 --> 00:42:38.527
on the traditional blues notes, you know, between holes one and six, and then I dip into the upper register.

00:42:39.027 --> 00:42:48.097
He sort of roots playing around holes six and seven and eight, you know, and he has a standard riff that he goes back to there, so that's his sort of root.

00:42:48.177 --> 00:42:50.619
So he's played the harmonica, you know, really differently.

00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:57.927
He can still play all the traditional stuff, but he chooses to, like, you know, root his solos there, which is, you know, which is really interesting.

00:42:58.548 --> 00:43:01.492
He's maybe not one of the someone that everyone's listened to.

00:43:01.512 --> 00:43:06.097
He's definitely worth checking out because his style is pretty unique, isn't it?

00:43:06.117 --> 00:43:07.940
So you play some blues chromatic as well.

00:43:09.161 --> 00:43:10.063
Any thoughts on that?

00:43:10.083 --> 00:43:12.405
Do you treat that as basically just third position blues?

00:43:13.266 --> 00:43:18.153
Yeah, I try to play it like Little Walter, and I don't use it nearly enough.

00:43:18.193 --> 00:43:23.621
I did some on that Little Walter tribute album, which got a really good response, actually.

00:43:23.641 --> 00:43:27.206
People love the track, and I just, for some reason, I don't touch it.

00:43:27.938 --> 00:43:28.938
as much as I should do.

00:43:28.958 --> 00:43:43.195
But I've brought the harmonica with me over this coronavirus, so I'm going to start writing songs with the chromatic in as well, which will be a nice twist on my next album, because obviously people haven't heard much chromatic in my stuff so far.

00:43:43.655 --> 00:43:45.418
Yeah, I think the chromatic's great.

00:43:45.438 --> 00:43:47.139
You like your big instrumentals.

00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:48.440
The chromatic's great for that, isn't it?

00:43:48.481 --> 00:43:55.068
You can really get some great instrumental stuff out of the chromatic, so I look forward to hearing maybe you doing some more of those.

00:43:55.108 --> 00:43:56.130
One question I'm asking...

00:43:56.737 --> 00:44:07.039
everyone on the podcast is if you had 10 minutes to play or if you were recommending 10 minutes to somebody who's maybe in the early stages of playing, what would you practice in those 10 minutes?

00:44:08.182 --> 00:44:13.675
If you're in your early stages, I would really try and practice a shuffle rhythm.

00:44:13.934 --> 00:44:23.012
If you go to Snooki Pryor or Sonny Boy Williamson The intro that they do, it's sort of based around Sunday Boys' All My Love in Vain.

00:44:23.534 --> 00:44:25.735
And your imagination, it's sort of like...

00:44:26.117 --> 00:44:36.489
And Snooki Pryor does it a lot as well.

00:44:40.134 --> 00:44:43.038
MUSIC PLAYS

00:44:43.938 --> 00:44:50.030
try

00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:10.273
it try and do the sneaky prior and um sunny boy intro and try and get that rhythm down yeah because once you've got that shuffle rhythm you know it'll really it'll really help help you out you know to get um to get people moving on the dance floor, to have an impact at jams and stuff.

00:45:10.394 --> 00:45:27.458
And also, if you've got another 10 minutes, try and get Howling Wolf's solos down, because he's a very deceptively simple player, rhythmically and tonally, and Phrase-wise, he's actually incredibly sophisticated and tasteful.

00:45:27.858 --> 00:45:28.981
Is it Moaning at Midnight?

00:45:29.041 --> 00:45:37.371
That very repetitive riff he plays, and that was so powerful and strong, and like you say, he's not the greatest harmonica player in the world, but it's very effective what he does.

00:45:48.545 --> 00:45:48.766
Phrase-wise,

00:45:53.250 --> 00:46:11.090
Well, you know, repeated riffs really, you know, can really build up tension live, you know, so that's another, you know, and, you know, as you progress, you know, the other thing is to, you know, try and write riffs on the harmonica because, you know, Little Walter, all of his major songs have a central riff, a central melodic figure.

00:46:12.873 --> 00:46:14.715
You know, Sonny Boy didn't do that.

00:46:15.757 --> 00:46:19.601
The band might have done it with Sonny Boy, like on Help Me, the band is the hook on Help Me.

00:46:20.262 --> 00:46:23.065
Little Walter could write melodic riffs that were hooks.

00:46:23.777 --> 00:46:29.003
And that's what sets him apart from all the other harp players.

00:46:29.043 --> 00:46:31.487
So he was a composer as I was a player.

00:46:32.086 --> 00:46:36.972
Sonny Boy doesn't really have composed riffs in his playing.

00:46:37.152 --> 00:46:48.606
He has stock riffs, and he's a genius, but Little Walter, you know, like blues of the feeling, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, you know, you can hum Little Walter's riffs.

00:46:58.690 --> 00:47:00.340
Do you offer any teaching, by the way?

00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.041
Yeah, people can get in touch with me at giles.robson.com.

00:47:04.514 --> 00:47:05.635
at gmail.com.

00:47:05.715 --> 00:47:07.416
Giles.Rosen at gmail.com.

00:47:07.697 --> 00:47:15.804
I'll post the link and I'll include that on the link on the podcast so people can get in touch with you and look at your stuff and obviously contact you if you want a Skype lesson with you.

00:47:16.063 --> 00:47:19.626
So moving on to Talking Gear now, what harmonicas are you playing now?

00:47:19.706 --> 00:47:21.309
You mentioned earlier on the Honours.

00:47:21.329 --> 00:47:22.329
Are they still your favourite?

00:47:22.750 --> 00:47:25.052
I strictly play Honours just straight out of the box.

00:47:25.112 --> 00:47:26.273
I don't modify them or anything.

00:47:26.432 --> 00:47:30.976
I really like the Special Fantasy but I also use Hogan Marine Band as well.

00:47:31.317 --> 00:47:32.958
So those are the two.

00:47:33.579 --> 00:47:37.324
Any Which flavor of the marine bands do you use?

00:47:38.586 --> 00:47:41.411
It's just the standard marine bands.

00:47:42.032 --> 00:47:44.034
So not the deluxe, the sort of original ones?

00:47:44.074 --> 00:47:47.119
Not the deluxe, no, the original ones, which I find work really well, you know.

00:47:47.581 --> 00:47:48.302
That's interesting.

00:47:49.523 --> 00:48:00.302
This is the third podcast I've recorded, and every one of you has said they like the, you know, the kind of traditional older marine bands over the deluxe and the crossovers, which...

00:48:01.409 --> 00:48:05.496
you know, they've obviously improved it from the point of view that the comb doesn't swell.

00:48:05.516 --> 00:48:06.257
So yeah, it's interesting.

00:48:06.277 --> 00:48:07.798
So is there any particular thing about the...

00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:11.003
So do you let the comb swell in the old Marine Bands?

00:48:11.284 --> 00:48:12.605
You don't treat it?

00:48:12.625 --> 00:48:13.385
I don't know really.

00:48:13.405 --> 00:48:17.811
I mean, looking at my harmonica case, I've got a mixture of Marine Bands and Special 20.

00:48:17.833 --> 00:48:22.157
They never really swell for me, so I don't have that problem.

00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:29.668
But I think the one, the harmonica, the Special 20 really has the dark tone, but it has the plastic comb as well.

00:48:29.708 --> 00:48:30.329
So that's a...

00:48:30.849 --> 00:48:34.675
You know, the Special Fantasy is a pretty cool instrument.

00:48:35.074 --> 00:48:35.876
Yeah, I've got a few.

00:48:35.896 --> 00:48:39.280
It's something I played when I was younger, but I haven't really bought anyone recently.

00:48:39.621 --> 00:48:44.347
Another question I'm asking each time is, do you have a favorite harmonica key, diatonic key?

00:48:44.927 --> 00:48:50.315
Well, I play mainly in A, B, and C.

00:48:50.695 --> 00:48:52.257
So those are the ones that I play in.

00:48:52.297 --> 00:48:57.284
But I'm going to, again, I'm probably on my next album, I'm going to start branching out into some, you know, I like F.

00:48:57.304 --> 00:48:58.485
F is an interesting one.

00:48:58.882 --> 00:49:08.612
You know, especially with the Sonny Boy stuff, he used to play a lot in F, probably because as an acoustic player, that's a lot louder than the lower notes.

00:49:08.632 --> 00:49:10.514
It gives you those high-piercing tones.

00:49:10.534 --> 00:49:12.117
You're talking about the top-end stuff.

00:49:12.157 --> 00:49:21.327
You get that sort of high-piercing sound out of the F, don't you, which is the stuff that the Sonny Boy gets from those Fs, those sounds, it gets tremendous.

00:49:21.387 --> 00:49:27.134
I think on the next album, that's one thing I'm going to start branching out into.

00:49:27.617 --> 00:49:29.840
and using some more keys, use the chromatic.

00:49:30.420 --> 00:49:37.927
I use a lot of third position on the albums and a lot of second position, but I love playing first position as well, so I've got a bit more of that in.

00:49:38.809 --> 00:49:40.230
Do you use any different tunings?

00:49:41.150 --> 00:49:41.791
No, no.

00:49:42.072 --> 00:49:48.297
Maybe I haven't really had time to investigate that, but I might do.

00:49:49.719 --> 00:50:29.322
I don't know, you know, I think a lot of people, you've got to set the yardstick of the the basically in my in my opinion you know the the greatest player in terms of blues is little walter because it's a it's a mixture of technical brilliance of an artistic brilliance and emotional brilliance so you know the artistic the technicality you know so he's a genius in execution he was a genius artistically in his phrasing in his structures and he was a genius in conveying emotion And really, there's not been one player that's ever surpassed him.

00:50:29.681 --> 00:50:43.561
Even if you play a greater range than him, there's never really been one player that's surpassed him in terms of the emotion and where he got it from and where he took it to.

00:50:44.623 --> 00:50:51.932
I find a lot of harmonica players need to get to a certain level.

00:50:51.972 --> 00:50:52.574
A lot of these...

00:50:53.153 --> 00:51:07.911
different, you know, tunings and, you know, reed configurations and customizations and what microphone you use and so on is a big distraction from what actually counts, you know, the playing and the artistry.

00:51:08.313 --> 00:51:11.817
Okay, so I take it you don't use old, well, fallen as far as I know.

00:51:11.956 --> 00:51:28.990
No, well, again, I looked into that in great detail because I was really fascinated and I'd have loved to, as a jazz fan, I'd love to have got a full chromatic scale out of a Dyson, but I listen to the players and they just stick out like a sore thumb, even the most sophisticated.

00:51:29.311 --> 00:51:30.172
Yeah, me too, yeah.

00:51:30.193 --> 00:51:38.844
Yeah, if it doesn't work, if it sticks out and if the note splits, even if you're like the world's greatest overblower, you know, I just haven't investigated it further.

00:51:39.385 --> 00:51:40.186
Yeah, I agree.

00:51:40.206 --> 00:51:40.847
And I'm the same.

00:51:40.907 --> 00:51:42.230
I just don't like the sound of it.

00:51:42.250 --> 00:51:47.177
To me, it just doesn't sound, you know, the sound of the melts on those overblown notes just doesn't sound right to me.

00:51:47.818 --> 00:51:50.121
Yeah, I mean, and that's not me being an old...

00:51:50.978 --> 00:51:52.519
And I'll tell you, you're a traditionalist.

00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:57.505
It's just, if he doesn't, you've got to make artistic decisions as well as technical decisions.

00:51:57.525 --> 00:52:08.079
You know, you don't do something, and what it isn't going to respond, you know, isn't going to respond to something that sounds forced and technically suspect, you know?

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:09.159
Yeah.

00:52:09.260 --> 00:52:12.164
So, I mean, I've read a great interview.

00:52:12.344 --> 00:52:15.206
It's where, you know, people can dig it out on Google.

00:52:15.268 --> 00:52:16.469
It's an interview with J.J.

00:52:16.548 --> 00:52:16.989
Miltover.

00:52:21.217 --> 00:52:34.411
A great French harmonica player on Planet, it's a website called Planet Harmonica.

00:52:34.952 --> 00:52:35.233
Yeah.

00:52:35.253 --> 00:52:56.597
And I read it recently in an airport, I think in Moscow actually, I was walking at Moscow airport and, you know, he's really, what is missing is, you know, serious artistic reflection on what you're doing rather than, you know, the technical reflection and, and, I think because harmonica players have always felt a bit technically inferior to guitar players and other instruments.

00:52:57.418 --> 00:53:04.090
They sort of, they ruminate over the technique and stuff rather than the actual art of what they're doing.

00:53:04.110 --> 00:53:07.974
And Senator Walter and Sonny Boy, they're all about the art.

00:53:08.016 --> 00:53:09.858
You can just hear it in their playing.

00:53:10.478 --> 00:53:24.487
And because they had a female, a much bigger female audience back then than now, they're obviously trying to move the girls in the audience rather than a bunch of harmonica geeks or blues geeks, you know, but a bunch of men.

00:53:24.507 --> 00:53:29.793
So, again, that's probably what's changed a bit as well, you know, the demographic of the audience.

00:53:29.833 --> 00:53:41.347
But you really need to try and reflect on what you're artistically trying to achieve and how these 50s harmonica players really achieved that, you know, and succeeded with it.

00:53:41.867 --> 00:53:46.773
Just talking about, finishing off talking about gear, what amp is your amp of choice?

00:53:47.266 --> 00:53:58.684
I just use a 59 Bassman reissue, which is the standard kit, and I use an old static JT-30 with a crystal element.

00:53:58.724 --> 00:54:04.472
I've got two of them, which I got from a great harmonica player in London called Laurie Darman.

00:54:04.492 --> 00:54:10.782
He's got about 15 or 20 vintage mics, and he let me borrow them all, and I bought a couple off him.

00:54:10.842 --> 00:54:13.005
And also there's an old Silver Electro-Voice...

00:54:13.697 --> 00:54:14.960
harp mic that I use as well.

00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:16.842
Do you use a small amp as well?

00:54:17.603 --> 00:54:20.849
I've used the Honey Boy amp as well, which I use for smaller gigs.

00:54:20.869 --> 00:54:24.074
It's a fantastic, it's a really fantastic harp amp.

00:54:24.695 --> 00:54:29.702
But I'm also, when I had Billy Bunch in Jersey, we didn't have a harp amp for it.

00:54:29.922 --> 00:54:39.076
I thought I'll just play through the PA, but what he did, he put his Electro Voice, I forget what model it is, but it's a reporter's microphone.

00:54:39.096 --> 00:54:39.998
He's used it for years.

00:54:40.737 --> 00:54:46.447
He put the electric voice mic through a digital delay and into the PA system.

00:54:46.487 --> 00:54:47.487
The sound was incredible.

00:54:48.148 --> 00:55:10.320
And I'm seriously thinking, once the whole corona thing is over, I'm seriously thinking about experimenting with playing directly through the PA, because I love the bassline, and it gives a big, fat, crunchy sound, but this sounded exquisite, you know, so I'm thinking of maybe trying to experiment with that as well, you know?

00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:12.963
Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing that, because I do the same.

00:55:13.123 --> 00:55:23.697
I do play through the PA quite a lot, although I play not always blues, you know, I play bits of other music as well, of the genre, so quite often I want a cleaner sound.

00:55:23.978 --> 00:55:34.311
But I have tried experimenting playing straight through the play, for example, using the Lone Wolf Heartbreak, which, you know, is that kind of, you know, little tube-driven pedal that you plug straight into.

00:55:34.331 --> 00:55:34.952
I've heard about it.

00:55:34.972 --> 00:55:35.833
That sounds pretty good.

00:55:35.873 --> 00:55:36.574
Yeah, I've heard about it.

00:55:36.594 --> 00:55:38.737
Yeah, it's, you know, it's good.

00:55:38.817 --> 00:55:39.398
It's good.

00:55:39.438 --> 00:55:45.425
It doesn't get the sound of a tube amp, but it's a decent replacement in the setting, you know, of just having to carry a little pedal around.

00:55:45.507 --> 00:55:46.487
So it's worth a try.

00:55:47.028 --> 00:55:49.652
But, yeah, it'd be interesting in other approaches like that because there are other ones.

00:55:49.771 --> 00:55:51.974
Well, obviously, Lone Wolf do another one as well.

00:55:52.034 --> 00:55:53.898
But it'd be interesting what Billy Branch does.

00:55:53.958 --> 00:55:56.521
And, like you say, if you really liked his sound, it'd be very interesting.

00:55:56.961 --> 00:56:00.286
So talking pedals then, do you use any effects pedals with your setup?

00:56:01.086 --> 00:56:02.509
No, I just go straight through the amp.

00:56:02.548 --> 00:56:05.733
I just found that it was just the best way live, you know.

00:56:06.173 --> 00:56:18.610
And in fact, I played with quite a well-known harmonica player a while back, and I let him go through my amp with his pedals.

00:56:19.532 --> 00:56:26.405
And when I went up and did my opening set, I switched off his pedals and then he kept the pedals switched off for his set.

00:56:26.786 --> 00:56:31.974
I think anything that gets in the way of the harp and the audience is pretty...

00:56:31.994 --> 00:56:37.764
I try and keep it as simple as possible because a lot of what I'm doing is down to the playing as well as the sound.

00:56:38.722 --> 00:56:48.393
Yeah, the default setup seems to be most people prefer just having maybe a bit of delay and then an anti-feedback pedal.

00:56:48.893 --> 00:56:50.536
I've experimented getting more pedals.

00:56:50.556 --> 00:56:54.061
I went through a stage of buying some of them over the long walk and I've just sold some of them on.

00:56:54.101 --> 00:57:01.630
Some of them are okay, but like you say, a lot of the time you're better off just keeping it reasonably simple and maybe just having one or two pedals.

00:57:01.889 --> 00:57:02.771
into the preference.

00:57:02.891 --> 00:57:06.956
But yeah, it's interesting to hear you don't use any pedals at all.

00:57:06.976 --> 00:57:15.108
The other thing I found as well is if I'm in a jam situation where I'm asked to go up with a band on stage, I will try and just use the PA.

00:57:15.168 --> 00:57:26.905
I'll just try and play through the PA because it just simplifies things and it means that if you're going through the PA, it's very easy for the sound guy to understand what you're doing and sort of mix you at the right level within the band.

00:57:27.445 --> 00:57:29.969
But yeah, so I just try and...

00:57:30.849 --> 00:57:32.552
you know, try and keep it as simple as possible.

00:57:32.731 --> 00:57:39.679
Because all of the magic comes from the playing and the, you know, it comes from you, not from the equipment.

00:57:39.860 --> 00:57:46.208
And I know it's fun to, I know it's fun to really, you know, get engrossed and obsessed with equipment and gears.

00:57:46.849 --> 00:57:57.481
It's a lot easier for a group of men to discuss, you know, to discuss the configuration of a mic and an amp and to discuss the emotional impact of little Walter Sardau's.

00:58:07.809 --> 00:58:33.224
you know it's like lawn mowers or whatever but um you know it's it's you know it's a bit of a long path to go down you know i've seen a lot of players you know a lot of players get obsessed with that and then not concentrate on what counts You're right.

00:58:33.543 --> 00:58:35.166
The playing comes first, for sure, doesn't it?

00:58:35.327 --> 00:58:37.451
Appreciate your time and taking the time.

00:58:37.490 --> 00:58:43.942
And hopefully, as you've touched on a few times, hopefully when all this coronavirus stuff is over, we'll see you back out on the road.

00:58:44.083 --> 00:58:48.891
We'll put your gigs back up on the Harmonica gig list on the Harmonica UK website, too.

00:58:49.472 --> 00:58:55.081
So, yeah, I look forward to you getting back out there and playing and what else you've got coming out for us all to enjoy.

00:58:55.650 --> 00:58:57.014
That's it for today folks.

00:58:57.355 --> 00:59:05.119
Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose built for the harmonica.

00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.965
Be sure to check out their website.