Jan. 9, 2022

Billy Boy Arnold interview

Billy Boy Arnold joins me on episode 53. Today we have a little part of blues harmonica history, as Billy lived through the heyday of the blues in Chicago and was a peer of the many great players at the time, being born just five years after Little Walter himself. He took a couple of lessons with John Lee Williamson, aka SBWI, at just 12 years of age. Billy released his first record at the age of 17 and then went on to release two songs with Bo Diddley, including coming up with possibly...

Billy Boy Arnold joins me on episode 53.

Today we have a little part of blues harmonica history, as Billy lived through the heyday of the blues in Chicago and was a peer of the many great players at the time, being born just five years after Little Walter himself. He took a couple of lessons with John Lee Williamson, aka SBWI, at just 12 years of age.

Billy released his first record at the age of 17 and then went on to release two songs with Bo Diddley, including coming up with possibly the most well known harmonica riff ever on I’m A Man. Shortly afterwards Billy went on to record his harmonica classic, I Wish You Would.

Billy took some time off from touring for a few years before he came back strong with two albums released through Alligator records in the 1990s. He has continued to record and release great albums until recently, and his passion for the harmonica is as infectious as ever after over 70 years of playing.

Links:
Discography:
https://www.wirz.de/music/arnoldbb.htm

More Blues On The South Side album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3xmmjhItU

The Blues Dream of Billy Boy Arnold book (by Kim Field):
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo119945396.html

Kim Field website:
https://www.kimfield.com

Videos:

Tom Jones playing I Wish You Would live:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CgmJgQzcrI

American Blues Legends Tour 1975:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvUa_56XysM

Studio recording of song from SBWI album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmqHIjTenHw

John Peel session with BBC from 1977:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAL-0nwbzZ8

Three Harp Boogie song with James Cotton and Paul Butterfield:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkHchw-sHzk

Podcast website:

https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:

If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:

Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:39 - Billy was around in the heyday of Chicago blues

01:57 - Billy was inspired to take up harmonica when he heard John Lee Williamson (SBWI)

02:43 - Had two lessons with SBWI, when he was 12

03:43 - SBWI taught Billy how to ‘choke’ (bend) the harmonica in the lessons

04:16 - What was SBWI like as a person

04:43 - Didn’t pay anything for the lessons to SBWI

05:48 - Blues popularity in Chicago

06:24 - Billy released his first record at age 17, Hello Stranger

07:20 - When Little Walter was becoming popular in Chicago, leading to every band in the city having a harmonica player

08:35 - Billy has been a singer as well as harp player since the beginning

10:05 - Where Billy got his stage name of ‘Billy Boy Arnold’

10:53 - The importance of making records to gain recognition

12:15 - Recorded two tracks with Bo Diddley

12:42 - How Billy was involved with coming up with the name Bo Diddley

13:39 - Played on I’m A Man with Bo Diddley, coming up with possibly the most famous harmonica riff ever

15:43 - How Billy left Chess Records to sign for Vee Jay records in order to record under his own name

16:45 - Recording of first version of I Wish You Would, Billy’s most well know song

18:35 - More on how Bo Diddley got that stage name

19:17 - I Wish You Would established Billy Boy and he was a regular on the Chicago blues scene

20:13 - Billy was a contemporary of some of the other big names in blues harmonica

22:12 - Some of the albums Billy released in the 1960s

23:30 - British Blues boom in 1960s, with The Yardbirds recording two of Billy’s songs

24:51 - David Bowie released a version of I Wish You Would, and Tom Jones played it live

25:22 - Billy was part of the American Blues Legends tour

25:54 - Came back with release of two albums with Alligator Records in the 1990s

28:03 - How Billy approaches writing his songs and importance of performing own songs

30:02 - Started touring around the world following success of two Alligator albums

30:32 - Boogie and Shuffle album in 2001, not on Alligator label

31:26 - Album with Rusty Zinn in 2005 and Billy playing blues chromatic

32:51 - Checkin’ It Out album recorded in the UK with Englishman Tony McPhee

34:21 - 2008 tribute album to John Lee Williamson (SBWI)

35:27 - How John Lee Williamson influenced Billy’s playing, and how he evolved beyond it

36:22 - Billy Boy Arnold Sings Big Bill Broonzy album in 2012

37:33 - Appears on the 2013 album: Remembering Little Walter, with various contributing harp players

38:44 - Secret to longevity of Billy’s career

39:22 - Recorded a session on the BBC John Peel radio show in 1997

39:34 - Recorded a song with James Cotton and Paul Butterfield, and emergence of white harp players

42:17 - A book has just been published about Billy’s life,

44:11 - Blues nominations for Billy

44:30 - 10 minute question

45:35 - How Billy approached practising

46:17 - Billy’s harmonicas of choice

46:32 - Different positions

47:05 - Embouchre

47:44 - Amps and mics used in the early days

49:16 - SBWI was first to use amplifiers for harmonica

49:43 - Most recent choices of amps and mics

50:29 - Effects pedals

50:39 - Billy still hoping to get out playing when pandemic eases

51:01 - How he kept himself busy over the pandemic

51:16 - Which harmonica players does Billy listen to now

WEBVTT

00:00:00.802 --> 00:00:02.846
Billy Boy Arnold joins me on episode 53.

00:00:03.827 --> 00:00:16.832
Today we have a little part of blues harmonica history as Billy lived through the heyday of the blues in Chicago and was a peer of many of the great players at the time, being born just five years after the little Walter himself.

00:00:17.393 --> 00:00:23.966
He took a couple of lessons with John Lee Williamson, aka Sonny Boy Williamson I, at just 12 years of age.

00:00:24.673 --> 00:00:35.302
Billy released his first record at the age of 17 and then went on to release two songs with Bo Diddley, including coming up with possibly the most well-known harmonica riff ever on I'm a Man.

00:00:35.764 --> 00:00:39.667
Shortly afterwards, Billy went on to record his harmonica classic I Wish You Would.

00:00:39.987 --> 00:00:47.554
Billy took some time off from touring for a few years before he came back strong with two albums released through Alligator Records in the 1990s.

00:00:47.893 --> 00:00:54.579
He has continued to record and release great albums until recently, and his passion for the harmonica is as infectious as ever.

00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.856
after over 70 years of playing.

00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:36.447
Hello, Billy Boy Arnold, and welcome to the podcast.

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Oh, how are you doing?

00:01:38.605 --> 00:01:39.168
So great, Billy.

00:01:39.209 --> 00:01:39.572
So you're...

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You're a guy who was around when all, you know, the Chicago Blues was kicking off and all the greats around.

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I think you were born in 1935.

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So you're only five years younger than little Walter, weren't you?

00:01:49.358 --> 00:01:50.179
Yeah, yeah.

00:01:50.399 --> 00:01:51.980
You know, you grew up with that scene.

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You know, obviously you're from Chicago as well, yeah?

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Yeah.

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You grew up with that scene.

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So, you know, what first got you interested in the harmonica?

00:01:59.427 --> 00:02:04.811
Oh, I was listening to blues records when I was four or five years old and I liked blues.

00:02:05.432 --> 00:02:29.854
And then I got interested in harmonica when I heard John Lee's Sonny Boy Williamson That was when I was about five, six years old then.

00:02:30.194 --> 00:02:31.816
But I didn't know he played the harmonica.

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I just liked the way he sang.

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And later on, I found out that he plays the harmonica.

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Great, yeah.

00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:42.913
So John Lee is a forerunner for a lot of the modern harmonica sound, wasn't he?

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So I understand you had some lessons with him.

00:02:45.735 --> 00:02:48.258
Yeah, I had two lessons with him when I was 12 years old.

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So how did you get in touch with him?

00:02:51.121 --> 00:02:56.164
Well, my uncle had a butcher shop on 31st and Giles.

00:02:56.506 --> 00:02:59.247
Sonny Boy lived at 3226 Giles.

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And I saw a guy pass with a guitar and I asked him, I said, did you know Sonny Boy?

00:03:05.193 --> 00:03:06.835
He said, yeah, Sonny Boy.

00:03:06.854 --> 00:03:07.375
Yeah, I know.

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He said, Sonny Boy lived He lived at 3226 Giles, and that's how I found out where he lived at.

00:03:12.781 --> 00:03:16.525
Sure, so you went round there, and what, you just asked him for a lesson, or?

00:03:16.824 --> 00:03:20.468
Well, me and my cousin got together, me and my cousin, and I was a kid.

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We was all 12-year-old kids.

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They weren't interested in blues, but I was.

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So I got them to go with me, and we rung the doorbell, and he came to the door, and he said, can I help you?

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I said, we want to see Sonny Boy.

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He said, this is Sonny Boy.

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I said, we want to hear you play your harmonica.

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He said, come on up, I'm proud to have you on.

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So I met with him on two occasions before he was murdered.

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Do you remember particularly what he said to you in the lessons?

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Anything that stuck with you?

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Well, he told me, well, you have to choke it to make that wah-wah, you know, get that blues sound.

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So you have to choke it.

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Today they call it bending the notes.

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But back in them days, all the black guys, the older black guys called it choking.

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So you were just 12 at this stage, yes?

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How good were you on harmonica at this point?

00:04:07.650 --> 00:04:08.950
I wasn't good at all.

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I didn't know nothing about how to play.

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Right.

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So you were almost pretty much a beginner, yeah?

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I was.

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I was a beginner.

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Yeah.

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So what was John Lee like then in these lessons?

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Was he a good teacher?

00:04:21.482 --> 00:04:23.843
Yeah, he was a good, nice, friendly guy.

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He seemed to enjoy our company.

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He had guests at his house, pianists, Johnny Jones and his girlfriend.

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And he took his time up and he was, you know, teaching us.

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So we got ready to go and he said, by any time, so I met with him one more time before he was murdered.

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Yeah.

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And do you remember what you paid him for the lesson?

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I didn't pay for it.

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Oh, great.

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He didn't charge me for no lesson, though.

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Superb, yeah.

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And

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did you discover that he'd been murdered, you know, after you went round again, or what was the story?

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Well, when we came back, the third time I came by there, and then the landlady said, haven't you heard?

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He got killed,

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you know.

00:05:03.403 --> 00:05:05.185
That's a rough times back then, eh?

00:05:05.446 --> 00:05:12.653
So as you say, so you joined with John Lee Williamson and the first was the 4Runner 2, you know, getting that more modern sound on the harmonica.

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.

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.

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.

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This was, what, 1947 then, when you had a couple of lessons with him?

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1948.

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So was blues starting to become popular in Chicago at that stage?

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Oh, the blues was popular in Chicago,

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in the

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black area, all the time.

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All through the 40s as well, was it?

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Oh, yeah.

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That was the music of the black people from the South.

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All the black people in Chicago and everywhere else came from the South.

00:06:07.298 --> 00:06:09.800
Yeah, and lots of immigration into Chicago, wasn't it?

00:06:10.502 --> 00:06:12.824
But you were born in Chicago yourself, weren't you?

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You're a native of Chicago.

00:06:14.425 --> 00:06:14.646
Yeah.

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Well, they migrated from the South because there were more jobs in the North, and they weren't under such pressure,

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you know?

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Yeah.

00:06:23.637 --> 00:06:28.802
Okay, and so what about when you started playing yourself around Chicago?

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What sort of age were you, you know, started getting involved?

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playing with bands?

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I guess I was about 17 because I was too young to go on clubs.

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You had to be 21 to get in nightclubs.

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So I guess I was about 17 and I listened to all the blues guys buying the records and, you know, it's just one of those things that you keep doing it and you keep doing it and you get the results.

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Yeah, so you had a recording when you were 17 called Hello Stranger.

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I

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sure

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did.

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Hello Stranger

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You can hear the influence of the Sonny Boy, the first sound on that one.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Well, I was trying.

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I didn't know any other.

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I think Lil' Walter had just started recording with Muddy Waters.

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Lil' Walter's sound was, you know, becoming popular.

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Yeah.

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So this is where harmonica started to become really popular, was it?

00:08:12.961 --> 00:08:23.541
Yeah, we got to the place where most bands didn't have a harmonica in it because Lil' Walter made the harmonica so popular after Sonny Boy, you know.

00:08:23.581 --> 00:08:31.997
Most clubs wanted a harmonica in the band because of Lil' Walter and Muddy Waters' influence.

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Yeah, but you'd already been playing by this.

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So were you, you're also the singing as well.

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You sing on this record, Her Old Stranger, don't you?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, you had to sing.

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You're going to be a blues harmonica player.

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You've got to be able to sing.

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I didn't know whether I could sing, but I tried, you know.

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So you're playing harmonica first, were you?

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And then, like you say, you kind of realized you had to sing to be able to get into the blues scene.

00:08:57.076 --> 00:08:59.919
Well, I was singing all the time with harmonica.

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Yeah, she fooled me that time I thought she was just a dumb girl I listen

00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.248
to records, so playing the harmonica without singing is not the right thing to do.

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If you want to make records and be popular like Sonny Boy and Lil Walls or Slinky Pryor.

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You get a lot of harmonica players now who don't sing, don't you?

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So you think there's a place for that, or you still think singing and playing the harmonica is something that needs to go together?

00:09:38.721 --> 00:09:59.519
don't need to go together no you got harmonica players that don't sing and most of the time if they don't sing they probably didn't have the aptitude to sing you know maybe the voice wasn't but if you're going to be a blues singer a harmonica player a blues singer a guitar player you got to sing too you know some of them have and some of them don't

00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:08.868
yeah but I guess it helps you become that front man doesn't it which helps you call the shots a bit more so on this recording of A Lost Stranger I believe this is where you got your nickname Yeah,

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they gave me that name, the record company.

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Yeah, I was surprised.

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I called them up and they

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said, we gave you a new name, Billy Boy.

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I understand at that age you weren't so pleased with the title Boy, you know, that sort of age you were.

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Well, you know, when you're young like that, you want to be a man, you want to be recognized as more mature, you know.

00:10:39.375 --> 00:10:42.359
Yeah, but it stuck and it turned out well for the name, yeah?

00:10:42.839 --> 00:10:44.782
Oh yeah, it was all right, you know.

00:10:44.822 --> 00:10:51.389
Well, I guess, you know, Sonny Boy, the first is your big idol, so having Boy in the title, it matched up with that, didn't it?

00:10:51.618 --> 00:10:52.739
Yeah, right, yeah.

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That W's single, Hello Stranger, then, did that then put your name on the map?

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Did that start getting you more recognition and more gigs?

00:11:00.206 --> 00:11:02.389
Well, it put my name on the map in Chicago.

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I don't know whether they're all over, you know, all over the United States.

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But Sonny Boy's wife said, you're not in the music business unless you make records.

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So you can be a great singer, great piano player, great harmonica player, but if you never make records, who knows what you can do, you know?

00:11:21.282 --> 00:11:37.446
Hello, stranger.

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Baby, can you have any company?

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And, you know, it came about that you got the, you know, to go into the studio to make that record.

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Blind John Davis.

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who made a lot of records for Sonny Boy.

00:11:52.873 --> 00:11:55.275
We became good friends when I was about 14 or 15.

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And he had these friends who were starting a record company, and they were looking for talent.

00:12:01.724 --> 00:12:04.407
So he introduced me to these people.

00:12:05.067 --> 00:12:05.307
Great.

00:12:05.369 --> 00:12:08.272
And did you have your own band then, or did you just have a sort

00:12:08.292 --> 00:12:08.653
of scratch band?

00:12:08.712 --> 00:12:09.653
No, I didn't have a band.

00:12:09.714 --> 00:12:11.035
I was just a kid, you know.

00:12:11.395 --> 00:12:11.797
Yeah, great.

00:12:11.817 --> 00:12:13.619
It's a good record, though, for the first record.

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And then a few years later, you know, it's quite famous for you, you started playing with Bo Diddley.

00:12:19.586 --> 00:12:20.447
Yeah, right,

00:12:20.548 --> 00:12:20.768
yeah.

00:12:21.188 --> 00:12:23.011
I started playing with Bo Diddley in 1951.

00:12:24.875 --> 00:12:27.379
So did you, I believe, did you meet him on Maxwell Street?

00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:28.822
You were playing with him on Maxwell Street?

00:12:29.102 --> 00:12:32.328
No, I met him on the south side of Chicago.

00:12:32.370 --> 00:12:34.493
He was playing on the street corners, you know.

00:12:35.009 --> 00:12:42.162
And I told him I played harmonica, and he invited me to come by his house Saturday and play with them, you know, on the street corners.

00:12:42.501 --> 00:12:44.785
So you know how his name became Bo Diddley.

00:12:44.905 --> 00:12:52.158
So I understand that you were helping write some lyrics for the song Bo Diddley, and you sort of christened him Bo Diddley, yeah?

00:12:52.354 --> 00:12:55.937
Well, I wasn't helping writing the songs for the song Bo Diddley.

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We didn't have a song called Bo Diddley, and we didn't have an artist named Bo Diddley.

00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:03.283
His name was Ellis McDaniels and the Hipsters.

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And when we'd go into the studio, what I'd heard the bass player had mentioned when we were playing on the corner, he'd say, Hey, Ellis, that goes Bo Diddley.

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And there was a little short comedian at the Indiana Theater.

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They had midnight rambles every Saturday night.

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They'd clear the theater out and have a stage show.

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Featured a major blues singer Like Big Bill, Bruins, Memphis Mini Sonny Boy played that before A couple of years before that But anyway That's how the word Bo Diddley got into the picture It wasn't that He named himself Bo Diddley

00:13:38.782 --> 00:13:43.668
Yeah, and I think on the B-side Of that Bo Diddley song Was the I'm a man, yeah?

00:13:44.048 --> 00:13:50.398
I'm a man, right, yeah So was that the first time that I'm a man was recorded Or was that an existing song then?

00:13:51.330 --> 00:13:53.393
No, it was the first time.

00:13:54.033 --> 00:13:54.955
He wrote that song.

00:13:54.995 --> 00:13:56.157
He was a creative guy.

00:13:56.197 --> 00:13:57.879
He wrote all his material.

00:13:58.360 --> 00:13:59.822
And he made that song up.

00:14:00.121 --> 00:14:01.464
And Muddy Waters liked it.

00:14:01.543 --> 00:14:03.145
And Muddy Waters wanted to do it.

00:14:03.547 --> 00:14:11.898
Because I'm a man was a statement that the black people in America, especially the men, recognize that they are a man.

00:14:11.977 --> 00:14:13.500
And everybody knew they were a man.

00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:15.503
And the whole world knew they were a man.

00:14:16.063 --> 00:14:20.509
But the whole world, discrimination, they didn't want to, you know, acknowledge it.

00:14:20.865 --> 00:14:22.707
Joe, he made that record, I'm a Man.

00:14:23.048 --> 00:14:25.029
Then Muddy Waters made Manish Boy.

00:14:25.530 --> 00:14:26.851
Same thing as I'm a Man.

00:14:27.173 --> 00:14:27.852
Same song.

00:14:28.293 --> 00:14:33.139
Yeah, so that's possibly one of the most famous harmonica riffs ever, yeah, the I'm a Man riff.

00:14:33.158 --> 00:14:39.144
So you've got credibility with coming up with that, you know, like I say, potentially the most famous one.

00:14:39.164 --> 00:14:40.907
So congratulations on that.

00:14:42.087 --> 00:14:47.614
In Maine

00:15:05.601 --> 00:15:08.548
Was that a big hit, those two records for you with Bo Diddley?

00:15:09.025 --> 00:15:09.746
Oh, yeah.

00:15:10.106 --> 00:15:13.929
His biggest hit was Bo Diddley and the Flipside, I'm a Man.

00:15:14.530 --> 00:15:19.095
And he put that beat, that was his original.

00:15:19.414 --> 00:15:22.538
He was very creative and very original, you know.

00:15:22.577 --> 00:15:23.337
Yeah.

00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:25.059
Yeah, and a little bit different, wasn't he?

00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:26.821
He wasn't really kind of straight blues, was he?

00:15:26.841 --> 00:15:28.123
A bit more, what, rock and roll?

00:15:28.403 --> 00:15:30.784
Yeah, well, he had, I don't know whether you call it rock and roll.

00:15:30.865 --> 00:15:34.607
Some people call it rock and roll, but he had a unique way of playing.

00:15:34.628 --> 00:15:38.191
And he wasn't just a straight-out blues player.

00:15:38.211 --> 00:15:38.991
He played...

00:15:38.991 --> 00:15:42.071
Different kind of rhythms, you know, in the most blues guys.

00:15:42.433 --> 00:15:42.994
Yeah, great.

00:15:43.054 --> 00:15:49.799
So it was shortly after this, I believe that you had a bit of a misunderstanding with Leonard Chess at Chess Records.

00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:56.265
So those two records were recorded at Chess, but you had a bit of a misunderstanding thinking that you weren't really wanted at Chess Records.

00:15:56.306 --> 00:15:58.268
So you went and signed for VJ Records.

00:15:58.327 --> 00:16:01.169
No, I didn't have a bit of understanding with Leonard Chess.

00:16:01.471 --> 00:16:03.711
I never had an agreement with Leonard Chess.

00:16:04.472 --> 00:16:08.496
My idea was to make records like Muddy Waters and everybody else.

00:16:08.917 --> 00:16:16.865
And so I had a song and I went to another record company, It wasn't a misunderstanding with Leonard Chess or Bo Diddley, you know.

00:16:17.166 --> 00:16:17.385
Yeah.

00:16:17.645 --> 00:16:23.113
But that was quite a big move from you because, you know, you just had a successful single with Bo Diddley.

00:16:23.192 --> 00:16:25.796
And then you decided you wanted to go out on your own then, did you?

00:16:25.995 --> 00:16:27.258
Was that part of your reasoning?

00:16:27.278 --> 00:16:30.181
Well, I decided that before I met Bo Diddley.

00:16:30.201 --> 00:16:33.904
When I made Hello Stranger, I didn't know Bo Diddley.

00:16:33.965 --> 00:16:35.888
So I was out on my own then.

00:16:35.908 --> 00:16:37.789
I made the record.

00:16:37.953 --> 00:16:38.414
Right, yeah.

00:16:38.475 --> 00:16:43.384
So then we went to VJ Records, which I think was just across the street, was it, from Chess Records?

00:16:43.505 --> 00:16:44.246
Right, yeah.

00:16:44.628 --> 00:16:44.827
Yeah.

00:16:45.610 --> 00:16:48.176
And is that when you first recorded I Wish You Would?

00:16:48.216 --> 00:16:51.261
Yeah.

00:17:04.546 --> 00:17:07.945
Yeah, that's when I first made it up.

00:17:08.248 --> 00:17:10.160
Wrote it, if you want to call it that.

00:17:10.501 --> 00:17:14.931
So this is Probably your most well-known song, certainly under your name.

00:17:15.030 --> 00:17:17.374
So that's a song that you've recorded several times.

00:17:17.413 --> 00:17:18.496
You recorded it back then.

00:17:18.896 --> 00:17:20.940
Was it originally recorded in 1958?

00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:21.441
No, 1955.

00:17:21.461 --> 00:17:21.740
55.

00:17:22.142 --> 00:17:22.722
And

00:17:24.164 --> 00:17:26.288
then you've recorded various versions.

00:17:26.327 --> 00:17:28.131
So it's been good to you, this song.

00:17:28.171 --> 00:17:31.717
Is it a song that you still enjoy playing in more recent years?

00:17:32.178 --> 00:17:34.320
Now, that's the song that put my name on the map.

00:17:34.642 --> 00:17:35.462
I wish you would.

00:17:36.084 --> 00:17:40.029
It's one of my most popular songs, and I still sing it and play it.

00:17:40.226 --> 00:17:43.471
I believe originally when you wrote it, it was called Diddy Diddy Dum Dum.

00:17:43.490 --> 00:17:43.971
Is that right?

00:17:44.372 --> 00:17:47.616
Yeah, that was a little girl that lived in the building.

00:17:48.038 --> 00:17:51.163
And she used to say that Diddy Diddy Dum Dum.

00:17:51.442 --> 00:17:54.508
And so I made a little riff up behind it.

00:17:54.788 --> 00:17:58.393
And then it came from a little three-year-old girl.

00:17:58.413 --> 00:18:01.397
I used to say Diddy Diddy Dum Dum all the time, you know.

00:18:01.657 --> 00:18:02.278
Right, brilliant.

00:18:02.378 --> 00:18:06.566
And that's the da-da-da-da-da-da, the sort of name of Wish You Would, yeah.

00:18:06.913 --> 00:18:18.501
I know you kind of got tied a little bit that it was a kind of Bo Diddley style riff in the song because it was that sort of riff which was also part of the Bo Diddley song, was it?

00:18:18.786 --> 00:18:21.288
Well, no, it wasn't part of the Bo Diddley song.

00:18:21.730 --> 00:18:30.040
Jody Williams made the guitar part of that, and it was sort of on that kick, but it wasn't a Bo Diddley song.

00:18:30.981 --> 00:18:35.008
Bo Diddley, when he went to the studio, he didn't even have a Bo Diddley song.

00:18:35.347 --> 00:18:36.509
His name wasn't Bo Diddley.

00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:38.712
His name was Ellis McDaniels and the Hipsters.

00:18:39.212 --> 00:18:46.502
The Bo Diddley thing came up when I mentioned that this chameleon at the Indiana Theater, his name was Bo Diddley.

00:18:46.563 --> 00:18:48.766
His stage name was Bo Diddley.

00:18:48.801 --> 00:18:49.362
And

00:18:49.383 --> 00:18:53.326
that was the funniest word I'd ever heard in my life, and I just laughed and laughed and laughed.

00:18:53.546 --> 00:18:59.631
So over here in the studio three years after that, he was saying, Papa's going to buy his baby a diamond ring.

00:19:00.031 --> 00:19:03.094
I said, why don't you say Bo Diddley's going to buy his baby a diamond ring?

00:19:03.755 --> 00:19:09.319
Now, if I hadn't said that word, Bo Diddley would have never came out, and there wouldn't have been no song called Bo Diddley.

00:19:09.339 --> 00:19:11.922
There wouldn't have been no artist called Bo Diddley.

00:19:12.261 --> 00:19:13.423
It just came to my head.

00:19:13.442 --> 00:19:16.685
I said, why don't you say Bo Diddley's going to buy his baby a diamond ring?

00:19:17.086 --> 00:19:17.287
Yeah.

00:19:17.626 --> 00:19:18.567
So in 55...

00:19:18.768 --> 00:19:28.837
you had I wish you would as you say this definitely put your name on the map you became well established then on the Chicago Blues scene did you start were you playing outside Chicago as well at this stage and

00:19:29.153 --> 00:19:31.816
Oh, no, I've been playing out around Chicago, you know.

00:19:32.057 --> 00:19:32.257
Yeah.

00:19:32.557 --> 00:19:38.221
So was that the case with a lot of the blues artists in a lot of it concentrated in Chicago at that stage?

00:19:38.241 --> 00:19:40.784
Yeah, Chicago was like starting ground.

00:19:40.844 --> 00:19:49.070
I mean, a lot of the guys came from the South to Chicago for different reasons, better conditions and make more money, more jobs.

00:19:49.432 --> 00:19:53.214
And so I was a big audience for blues in Chicago.

00:19:53.555 --> 00:20:00.300
So you could get your start here in Chicago and all the major record companies, RSA, Victor, was recording here.

00:20:00.340 --> 00:20:02.463
That's the male roles of me and R.C.

00:20:02.584 --> 00:20:03.944
Victor in Columbia.

00:20:03.984 --> 00:20:05.307
He was recording.

00:20:05.406 --> 00:20:07.189
They had studios here in Chicago.

00:20:07.229 --> 00:20:12.013
Recorded Memphis Mini, Tampa Ray, and all these people recorded in Chicago.

00:20:12.614 --> 00:20:13.015
Great, yeah.

00:20:13.035 --> 00:20:14.817
So you were playing, obviously, all the greats.

00:20:14.876 --> 00:20:16.778
Little Walter was active at this stage.

00:20:16.858 --> 00:20:20.942
He was still with Muddy Waters in the mid-50s and all the other greats.

00:20:21.423 --> 00:20:24.547
Junior Wells was around at this stage and obviously the two Sonny boys as well.

00:20:24.586 --> 00:20:29.501
So were you, you know, in regular seeing these guys playing on the same stages isn't.

00:20:29.922 --> 00:20:45.903
We'll be right back.

00:21:01.442 --> 00:21:15.082
So,

00:21:23.394 --> 00:21:32.107
So Chicago was like the main place to go if you want to play blues, or here, if you like blues, Chicago was the city.

00:21:32.448 --> 00:21:33.148
Yeah, sure, yeah.

00:21:33.589 --> 00:21:41.021
So the blues boom in Chicago lasted through the 50s, and as it started getting into the 1960s, the blues was becoming less popular at that time.

00:21:41.314 --> 00:22:07.356
Well, yeah, well, the country blues, you know, like Lil Walton, Muddy Waters, and all those guys, their music sort of was changing, but the blues was still very popular, and all the guitar players would come to Chicago and try to get a start, and when they got to Chicago, they wanted to play jazz, and they couldn't play jazz, because in order to play jazz, you had to study, so they'd come to Chicago, I don't want to play no blues, I want to play jazz.

00:22:07.957 --> 00:22:09.198
They couldn't play jazz.

00:22:09.558 --> 00:22:22.056
And then through the 60s, you released the couple of albums i've got here that your 1963 album blues on the south side was that your first solo artist album or did you already release an album your name with the sort of i wish you would album

00:22:22.416 --> 00:22:26.102
i think that might have been the first solo

00:22:32.751 --> 00:22:51.392
album so And then, you know, another album through the 60s, going to Chicago in the mid-60s.

00:22:59.442 --> 00:23:03.646
So you still acted through the 60s, but the blues was a bit less popular at that stage, yes?

00:23:03.846 --> 00:23:04.188
Yeah.

00:23:04.208 --> 00:23:08.393
I think a lot of the blues artists went over to Europe to start playing.

00:23:08.413 --> 00:23:08.913
Did you...

00:23:09.346 --> 00:23:11.068
Did you go up to Europe yourself during that time?

00:23:11.528 --> 00:23:12.711
No, not during that time.

00:23:13.071 --> 00:23:24.950
Well, the big artists like Holland Wolf and Muddy Waters was booked in Europe because the European people liked the blues and they knew it came and originated in Chicago.

00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:29.597
So it became popular to go to Europe to play the blues for the people in Europe.

00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:38.378
Yeah, and in the 60s, of course, famously the British blues boom was big and the Yardbirds did two of your songs.

00:23:38.398 --> 00:23:40.740
They recorded I Wish You Would and Ain't Got You.

00:23:40.760 --> 00:23:40.800
So

00:23:48.827 --> 00:23:56.074
how

00:23:56.114 --> 00:23:58.036
did you feel about people covering your songs?

00:23:58.477 --> 00:23:59.617
I appreciated it.

00:23:59.637 --> 00:24:00.637
It was a compliment.

00:24:01.358 --> 00:24:02.681
That's the greatest compliment Yeah.

00:24:04.767 --> 00:24:10.142
Did you

00:24:10.182 --> 00:24:11.465
get any money out of it, Billy?

00:24:11.526 --> 00:24:12.228
Here's the question.

00:24:12.769 --> 00:24:13.171
Well, the...

00:24:14.433 --> 00:24:17.076
VJ Publishing, they took all the money.

00:24:17.537 --> 00:24:18.958
I got$750 out of it.

00:24:19.018 --> 00:24:19.238
Yeah.

00:24:19.258 --> 00:24:26.463
Around 1967 or 68, something like that.

00:24:26.724 --> 00:24:30.768
See, the publishing company, like VJ, all the money went to them.

00:24:30.807 --> 00:24:33.150
And they didn't give the artists any money.

00:24:33.671 --> 00:24:33.830
Yeah.

00:24:34.211 --> 00:24:35.972
But you didn't feel bad about the iPads?

00:24:36.012 --> 00:24:37.554
Because like you say, it wasn't...

00:24:37.713 --> 00:24:38.154
Oh, no.

00:24:38.634 --> 00:24:39.695
I thought it was great.

00:24:39.796 --> 00:24:44.240
I mean, it enhanced my popularity.

00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:44.940
Yeah.

00:24:45.300 --> 00:24:46.602
My name and everything.

00:24:46.622 --> 00:24:48.943
I appreciated what they did.

00:24:48.983 --> 00:24:50.925
Yeah, it got you some more recognition, yeah.

00:24:51.046 --> 00:24:54.409
And I believe, is it right, that David Bowie also covered I Wish You Would?

00:24:54.709 --> 00:24:56.089
Yeah, he sure did, yeah.

00:24:56.430 --> 00:24:57.010
Yeah, great.

00:24:57.050 --> 00:24:59.153
So obviously he was a massive name.

00:24:59.333 --> 00:25:02.435
And Tom Jones made a video.

00:25:02.455 --> 00:25:05.498
Did you ever see that video of Tom Jones, I Wish You Would?

00:25:05.518 --> 00:25:07.039
No, I'll find it, though.

00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:07.880
I'll put a link to that

00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:08.540
on there.

00:25:08.661 --> 00:25:09.521
Yeah, it was a video.

00:25:09.541 --> 00:25:10.542
It was on television.

00:25:10.942 --> 00:25:12.364
And it's called I Wish You Would.

00:25:12.384 --> 00:25:13.865
Tom Jones did it.

00:25:14.625 --> 00:25:15.366
Excellent.

00:25:15.567 --> 00:25:16.469
Yeah, good stuff.

00:25:17.269 --> 00:25:23.199
So you were still playing for the sort of 60s and, you know, 60s, 70s, and you were still quite active.

00:25:23.219 --> 00:25:26.984
I think in 1975, you were part of the American blues legends.

00:25:27.244 --> 00:25:27.586
Yeah.

00:25:35.278 --> 00:25:35.357
Yeah.

00:25:54.145 --> 00:26:03.560
I think you particularly came back into, you know, sort of relaunching almost, you know, into full-time music back in the 90s when you released two albums on Alligator Records.

00:26:04.403 --> 00:26:05.347
Yeah, that's true,

00:26:05.367 --> 00:26:05.950
yeah.

00:26:06.273 --> 00:26:14.007
Yeah, so the first one was called Back Where I Belong, which is a suitable title for your sort of relaunching your solo

00:26:14.027 --> 00:26:15.509
quiz.

00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:23.942
Back Inside

00:26:36.289 --> 00:26:42.439
what happened to come about that you did you decide then to get back into music full-time or was the opportunity

00:26:42.459 --> 00:26:57.442
there well i never i never got out of it but if you're not really uh recording and not traveling uh you're sort of like uh you ain't getting exposure so you got to travel and record and keep the exposure going you know

00:26:58.723 --> 00:26:59.305
yeah so

00:26:59.424 --> 00:27:00.866
yeah i never got out of it

00:27:01.788 --> 00:27:04.936
sure yeah so It got you more recognition getting on Alligator, yeah.

00:27:04.957 --> 00:27:09.604
And then did you start touring again after you'd done this album with Alligator

00:27:10.005 --> 00:27:10.365
in 1980?

00:27:10.424 --> 00:27:12.288
Yes, I sure did, yeah.

00:27:12.769 --> 00:27:13.189
Sure, yeah.

00:27:13.470 --> 00:27:16.173
And I believe you wrote nine of the songs for this album.

00:27:16.674 --> 00:27:18.257
Yeah, yeah, I wrote most of it.

00:27:18.517 --> 00:27:21.521
The stuff I did for Alligator was two of my best albums.

00:27:22.423 --> 00:27:24.926
The stuff I did for Alligator was the most popular.

00:27:24.967 --> 00:27:25.788
Yeah.

00:27:25.968 --> 00:27:29.453
To me, the best stuff I ever wrote was for Alligator.

00:27:30.082 --> 00:27:30.982

Billy Boy Arnold interview

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