May 4, 2022

Wade Schuman interview

Wade Schuman joins me on episode 60. Wade is the singer / songwriter and leader, and of course harmonica player, of the New York based 8-piece band, Hazmat Modine, with the harmonica playing a pivotal role in the sound of such a big band. In fact, there is often a second harmonica player in the band. Wade absorbed many musical genres from a young age, which helped shape the eclectic styles of music played by Hazmat Modine, from African, Asian, Klezmer, Caribbean, all with an American roots co...

Wade Schuman joins me on episode 60.

Wade is the singer / songwriter and leader, and of course harmonica player, of the New York based 8-piece band, Hazmat Modine, with the harmonica playing a pivotal role in the sound of such a big band. In fact, there is often a second harmonica player in the band.

Wade absorbed many musical genres from a young age, which helped shape the eclectic styles of music played by Hazmat Modine, from African, Asian, Klezmer, Caribbean, all with an American roots core. The band has released five albums, with another in the pipeline.

Wade started out learning pre-war harmonica, an approach he has integrated so well into the big band line-up. And he was a central part of the New York harmonica scene in the early 1990s, mixing with many of players who have gone on to establish themselves as the leading players in the harmonica community of today.

Links:
http://www.hazmatmodine.com/

Yazoo album of 1920s & 30s harmonica:
https://www.downhomemusic.com/product/harmonica-blues-great-harmonica-performances-of-the-1920s-and-30s/

Harmonicas, Harps and Heavy Breathers book by Kim Field:
https://www.kimfield.com/new-page-2

Pat. Missin website:
https://www.patmissin.com

Hog2 Octave pedal:
https://www.ehx.com/products/hog2/

European tour 2022:
http://www.hazmatmodine.com/tour-summer22.html

Videos:
Wade playing with Hog 2 octave pedal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjEgH7YAmEw

Live at the BBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeiWUMpVdpQ

Outdoor concert filmed for the Nobel Laureate Committee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llL5v5PL9dA

Solo piece at Stockholm Jazz festival:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwgN8IgLNI4&t=13s

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:26 - Origins of Wade’s name

02:15 - Now lives in New York, where in settled in the 1990s. Originally from Michigan

02:33 - Influence’s on Wade’s music

03:32 - Enjoys music from all different cultures and styles

04:18 - Started playing harmonica around age 10 and first harmonicas owned

04:43 - Hohner made some of their harmonicas in Ireland

05:28 - What drew Wade to playing the harmonica

06:18 - Wade’s generation of players learnt to play by ear and were self-taught

06:59 - Where blues music originated from and why Wade writes his own music

09:26 - Harmonica was part of the immigrant culture of the USA

10:34 - Wade’s approach to playing the harmonica

12:14 - Harmonica is usually self-taught, with few structured lessons and why that is

13:09 - What Wade sees as the strengths of the harmonica

13:59 - Is the singer in Hazmat Modine

14:47 - Started the band with another harmonica player, Randy Weinstein

15:08 - After playing harmonica from 10, stopped playing for a few years due to quality issues with the instrument

15:59 - Got back into playing harmonica in the late 80s and discovered minor key harmonicas

16:26 - A group of US harmonica players discovered each other in the early 90s, including Joe Filisko, Kim Field, Howard Levy and Pat Missin

17:57 - Wade’s strengths on the harmonica

18:47 - Discovered overblows and incorporated some into his playing

20:31 - Some of the younger players have great technique now, helped by online resources

21:01 - When became a bandleader became really interested in songwriting

22:12 - The origin of the name Hazmat Modine

23:14 - A group of harmonica players started meeting in New York: The New York Reedsters Club

24:12 - The harmonica group is where he met Randy Weinstein, and they formed Hazmat Modine

24:43 - Other instruments were added to the band, eventually making eight members

25:22 - The role of the harmonica in such a big band and having two harmonicas in the band

27:25 - Wade is now the only harmonica player in the band

28:10 - The different genres played by the band and where Wade drew inspiration for that

29:11 - First album from the band is Bahamut, crafted over seven years at great expense

32:49 - About to record a new album

34:19 - Lots of virtuoso playing now, but it’s niche

35:51 - Songwriting is the primary goal of music for Wade

36:11 - Second album is Cicada and then a live album was released

37:23 - Box Of Breathe album is the most recent, with Extra Deluxe Supreme released before that

37:48 - Extra Deluxe Supreme song

38:36 - Song with Son of Dave

40:13 - Harmonica players obsession with gear

40:37 - Dark River song uses a cheap karaoke mic with the harmonica

41:50 - Has used a wireless mic from the beginning

42:07 - Uses octave pedal and being a forerunner of using pedals

43:08 - Jason Ricci has encouraged more harmonica players to use effects

43:36 - Uses clean microphone and sound

44:07 - The sort of sound favoured by the other harmonica players in band

45:13 - Lost Fox Train song dedicated to Joe Filisko

46:43 - The harmonica community is very supportive of each other

47:21 - Steve Baker book revolutionised the harmonica scene

47:41 - Doesn’t do much session work, but has done a little

48:42 - More on the collaborations Hazmat Modine have done

50:06 - Ten minute question

50:30 - Amp taking on tour and autowah pedal

51:28 - Harmonicas of choice: plays Filisko customised harmonicas

51:49 - Off-the-shelf harmonicas are such good quality now

52:10 - Influence Steve Baker has had on harmonicas community

52:30 - Using low tuned harmonicas recently

52:42 - Used Seydel harmonicas for a time and likes them

53:07 - Still uses a lot of minor tuned harmonicas

53:52 - Strengths of Wade’s harmonica playing

54:09 - Embouchre and over emphasis on technique these days

56:25 - Touring Europe in June / July 22 and plans for new album

WEBVTT

00:00:00.577 --> 00:00:02.701
Wade Schumann joins me on episode 60.

00:00:03.282 --> 00:00:14.262
Wade is the singer, songwriter and leader and of course harmonica player of the New York-based eight-piece band Hazmat Maudine, with the harmonica playing a pivotal role in the sound of such a big band.

00:00:14.884 --> 00:00:17.629
In fact, there is often a second harmonica player in the band.

00:00:17.986 --> 00:00:30.408
Wade absorbed many musical genres from a young age, which helped shape the eclectic styles of music played by Hazmat Mordin, from African, Asian, Klezmer, Caribbean, all with an American roots core.

00:00:30.969 --> 00:00:33.933
The band has released five albums, with another in the pipeline.

00:00:34.475 --> 00:00:40.326
Wade started out learning pre-war harmonica, an approach he has integrated so well into the big band line-up.

00:00:40.706 --> 00:00:52.384
and he was a central part of the New York harmonica scene in the early 1990s, mixing with many of the players who have gone on to establish themselves as the leading lights in the harmonica community of today.

00:00:52.423 --> 00:00:57.771
I'm delighted to announce that Seidel Harmonicas have agreed to sponsor the podcast.

00:00:58.031 --> 00:01:07.006
Be sure to visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

00:01:07.457 --> 00:01:08.700
Really appreciate it, guys.

00:01:08.740 --> 00:01:10.162
Welcome aboard.

00:01:22.114 --> 00:01:24.358
Hello, Wade Schumann, and welcome to the podcast.

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Well, thank you.

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First of all, we'll start with your name.

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So, Wade, that's quite an unusual name.

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Where did you get that one from?

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My great-grandfather was an artist, and he was very obsessed with trees.

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So he gave trees all around his neighborhood.

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He gave them names.

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So on my uncle's lawn was an ancient, was a balsam tree of some kind.

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And it was called the Jotham Wade tree.

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Jotham Wade was an ancestor in the family from England, as a matter of fact.

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It's my middle name, and I'm named after a tree.

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What about the name Schumann?

00:02:01.909 --> 00:02:02.950
Where does that come

00:02:02.971 --> 00:02:03.051
from?

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Well, so my father's Jewish.

00:02:04.792 --> 00:02:06.793
He's from Cincinnati, Ohio.

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And my mother was old, old New England wasp.

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So I'm a conglomerate of two different Jews.

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pools.

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And now, of course, you're living in New York.

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Have you always been a resident of New York?

00:02:19.705 --> 00:02:27.735
No, I grew up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, went to school in Rhode Island and Pennsylvania, spent a lot of time traveling over the years.

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I moved to New York in 97 and I started the band shortly after moving here.

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Your music is a conglomeration of lots of different styles and genres.

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So was that from your traveling when you were younger then?

00:02:39.828 --> 00:02:47.075
No, I think often artists and musicians crystallize on their very early impulses and experiences.

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I had a brother who was seven years older than me, who was an extremely talented pianist and obsessive music collector.

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So from the age of seven on, I was hearing music constantly, and his tastes were also really unusual for that time.

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We're talking the 60s, early 70s.

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So he was very interested in pre-war music, stride piano, boogie woogie, blues.

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Kind of unusually, I was listening to that music constantly from a very young age.

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You know, he was also listening to Bulgarian music and Romanian music.

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So I was hearing Eastern European music.

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And then I kind of followed his tendency of just constantly searching out music.

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I really enjoy music from all different cultures, all different languages, all different styles.

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But it's interesting to me that a lot of people find music from other cultures either unpalatable or alien.

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I've just never felt that way.

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For whatever reason, I can be very moved by, say, Middle Eastern music or African music or Central Asian music.

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All of that makes a lot of sense to me emotionally, even if I don't know the language.

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So to me, it's all kind of mix together.

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So I think you started playing harmonica around the age 10, was it?

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Yeah, I think I got the first two harmonicas I remember having.

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One was an echo harp I got actually in Scotland.

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My parents, we moved there briefly.

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I guess I was around sixth grade.

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I'm not sure how old you are, 11 maybe.

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I got an echo harp.

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I think my other first harmonica was a Lancer harmonica made by Hohner.

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Briefly, Hohner was making harmonicas in Ireland.

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They made the Pan American harmonica, the Lancer harmonica, the Pan Canadian harmonica.

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My first diatonic was this Lancer harmonica.

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I got at the Campus Bike and Toy in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

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That's new on me that they made those harmonicas in Ireland.

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So yeah, you learn something new every day.

00:05:08.298 --> 00:05:09.879
Well, it's funny to have a harmonica.

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The theme of it was a knight on a horse with a lance.

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Now, what that has to do with a harmonica, I have no idea.

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But in the early part of the 20th century, they were just making so many different harmonicas and they had all different themes and ideas and names just to get people to buy another harmonica, you know.

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So what drew you two playing the harmonica in the first place

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you know i was a kid i didn't have much money it was easier to get it was easy to carry around you could just play on it constantly uh i would ride my bike and play no-handed and then you know uh one of the first records i got my brother gave me was harmonica blues of the 20s and 30s on yazoo records so And I just became obsessed with that record and tried to learn everything on the record.

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And I also had a Sonny Terry and Brian McGee record that I had found in the trash.

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You know, those were the two kind of fundamental influences when I was like 10.

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My generation of harmonica players are kind of interstitial.

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There were no lessons.

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There was basically two books.

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There was no information.

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And we just learned learn from listening and kind of trying to replicate what we heard.

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But most, you know, so I'll be 60 this summer.

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I was born in 1962.

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And then, you know, the previous generation of harmonica players who largely played blues are probably in their 70s now.

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So, you know, 10 years older.

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None of us had the podcasts or YouTube or lessons.

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We are all more or less self-taught.

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And there are good things and bad things about that.

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There's also the very strange cultural phenomenon of blues where primarily the people learning and playing were white people playing music that had its origins in African American culture.

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That's a very bizarre transference if you think about it.

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A music form that arises from one culture and then kind of dies out in that culture and is then taken up by another group of people with a different history.

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You know, I think that there's a lot of paradigm One of the reasons why I write my own music is because on some fundamental level, I feel discomfort with replicating a language that is not my cultural origin in many ways.

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My approach to music and the harmonica is that I want to create something of my own for my own time with my own language.

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And it's deeply, profoundly influenced by blues and influenced by specifically those early blues.

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techniques I learned, but I don't want to be a kind of historical jukebox.

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So

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Yeah, but again, it's interesting because, again, we'll get onto it more shortly when we talk about the band.

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But you've already alluded to, you know, you've taken lots of influence from lots of different cultures.

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So that's a very important part of your music.

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It is.

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When I was very young, I was very interested in playing pre-war music, the 20s and 30s, which was a high watermark in American culture on all sorts of levels.

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If America is a melting pot between African American culture and English immigrant culture and colonial culture, it comes on to its own in the 20s and 30s, where you have a kind of beginning of American cultural dominance.

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And a lot of that has to do with jazz and blues and gospel, but also kind of modernist artistic culture.

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And so that was a point of real interest to me because there's a freshness and a vivacity and kind of profound creative aspect of what happened at that time.

00:09:24.549 --> 00:09:29.775
And harmonica was a part of that because harmonica was an instrument of immigrants, right?

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It was cheap, it was easy to move around, it came from Germany, and it was played not just by African Americans, but by all sorts of people coming to America or in America because it was a cheap and portable instrument.

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The techniques used at that time were really quite sophisticated.

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You know, cross-heart playing, which people associate with blues, was also widely used in country, southern country music.

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The imitative qualities of the harmonica where it imitates trains and fox chases and things is also cross-cultural.

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It wasn't just an African-American invention.

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In fact, fox chases go back to English and Scottish music on the fiddle back to the 19th century at least.

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To me, it's all interrelated.

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And those places where you have synthesis is where creativity happens.

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And I'm interested in creativity.

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And I try to stay close to the ethic of the quality that makes American music interesting without literalness to form.

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Talking a bit more about your musical background.

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So you learned some other instruments, I think, back in high school.

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I really only play harmonica.

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I play guitar.

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I enjoy it greatly, but I play entirely by ear.

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I don't read or write.

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My approach to music has been kind of from the outside in.

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You know, I pick up things and I play them And I play them with feeling, I hope, but I'm neither a sophisticated chromatic player nor somebody who does literal replication of things.

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And those are both strong points and weak points.

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I'd say my greatest facility was playing those earlier styles.

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And I can, I have some very good technique in that regard, but I kind of learned more by obsessive compulsiveness than any ordered structure.

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And I think that also reflects my generation.

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You know, if you listen to Paul Butterfield play juke, it's a total approximation.

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He's a pucker player.

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He's not tongue blocking.

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If you compare it to contemporary musicians who play Chicago style, their precision and technical virtuosity in terms of understanding the language is much more sophisticated and closer to the origin.

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But for me personally, I prefer Butterfield because I think he's a creative guy and he was doing something else in a way.

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I think it's interesting with harmonica, isn't it?

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Because most people are, you know, sort of self-taught.

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They just, like you say, play along with records, maybe take some lessons off the internet these days.

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We definitely don't have structured lessons like, say, you get in violin, and it gives the instrument a much more about feel, isn't it?

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You know, what is it about the harmonica which lends itself to that, do you think?

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Well, I think it's the nature of the instrument that it's not taken seriously and it's not approached in a conservatory manner.

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I think it's also the history of the instrument and the music associated with it.

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I mean, it's essentially a folk instrument to begin with.

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The chromatic harmonica came fairly late in the game, you know, early 20th century, really.

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It has some limitations as a chromatic instrument.

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To play legato through from top to bottom with complete fluidity is a difficult thing on the harmonica.

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But because of its oddness, it allows for qualities that other instruments don't have.

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I mean, what I like about the harmonica, for me, is that it's a rhythmic instrument that It plays chords and can play melody, has a glissando that is vocal-like.

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And the rhythmic aspect and the vocal aspect are what make it very special.

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If you think about saxophone, it can do vocal-like glissando, but it doesn't play chords.

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Harmonica has some qualities that make it special.

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To me, the chromatic aspect of it is much less attractive than it would be on saxophone or piano or even guitar because although it can do that I don't think it does that in a way that sonically is as beautiful to me as other things it does.

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Yeah and I think it's that vocal quality of the harmonica as well isn't it that people respond so well to.

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Not forgetting of course you say you're only a harmonica player but of course you are the singer as well in the band so that's an important part of your role.

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...

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So, you know, I've had my own journey.

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I started really playing harmonica.

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I moved to New York.

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I thought, okay, if I'm going to do music, I want to do my music.

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And so I'll have to be the band leader because if I'm going to spend time doing it all, I'm going to do only what I want and nobody else does what I want to do because I'm I have an odd assortment of influences and tastes.

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And so I started the band with another harmonica, Randy Weinstein, who's a remarkable harmonica player, very creative guy.

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My original idea was to have a harmonica band, but I couldn't find anybody really besides Randy who would play in the band.

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I couldn't find like four harmonica players.

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I'll back up a bit.

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I played harmonica from 10 and then I hitchhiked around Europe for a year.

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I played in the streets.

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And at that time, I was just playing pre-war stuff, ragtime blues.

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And, you know, I was very influenced by like Sonny Terry and Peg Leg Sam and Dee Ford Bailey and Gwen Foster.

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Those are all pre-war players, more or less.

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I mean, Sonny Terry isn't, but stylistically he is.

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And then I gave up harmonica in the early 80s.

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At that point, there was mainly Hohner.

00:15:40.876 --> 00:15:49.145
It was So I was so frustrated and there was Suzuki also at the time, but they were hard to get.

00:15:49.166 --> 00:15:50.527
It was a very different world.

00:15:50.707 --> 00:15:52.168
Like I said, everything has changed.

00:15:52.328 --> 00:15:53.409
So I was frustrated.

00:15:53.451 --> 00:15:54.412
I was in art school.

00:15:54.432 --> 00:15:55.692
I was focusing on painting.

00:15:55.773 --> 00:15:59.157
I just gave up harmonica for like, I don't know, eight years, nine years.

00:15:59.356 --> 00:16:08.466
Then at the end of the eighties, I was down in Baltimore and I saw a Suzuki harmonica in a window and I'd never seen one before.

00:16:08.486 --> 00:16:13.552
And it was, I forget what it was called, but it had a metal comb and it was clear in the attempt to make a high quality.

00:16:13.552 --> 00:16:16.195
So I bought it.

00:16:16.215 --> 00:16:18.116
That kind of got me back into it.

00:16:18.557 --> 00:16:20.139
And so I started playing again.

00:16:20.158 --> 00:16:26.346
I also at that time kind of discovered the minor key harmonicas, which were also really exciting.

00:16:26.505 --> 00:16:32.852
There was this kind of explosion at the end of the 80s, early 90s, where there were new instruments available.

00:16:33.113 --> 00:16:38.599
And then a bunch of us kind of found each other, kind of obsessive harmonica geeky people.

00:16:38.739 --> 00:16:43.384
So at that time, I met Richard Slay and I met Joe Felisco.

00:16:43.504 --> 00:16:49.591
Somebody gave me an article about Joe, and so I wrote a letter to him in Joliet, Illinois.

00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:51.211
At that time, there was no email, right?

00:16:51.732 --> 00:16:55.356
And then I got his number, called him, and we became quite close.

00:16:55.817 --> 00:17:01.722
And then I also got Kim Field's book, you know, The History of the Harmonica, Harps, what's it called?

00:17:01.903 --> 00:17:03.544
Heavy Breathers one, yeah, Harmonica.

00:17:03.565 --> 00:17:03.785
Right.

00:17:04.006 --> 00:17:08.611
So I just called information, got Kim's number, and called him up.

00:17:08.691 --> 00:17:10.232
He was living in Massachusetts.

00:17:10.633 --> 00:17:13.455
So it was this kind of exciting connect.

00:17:13.455 --> 00:17:20.426
And that was also the time where, you know, people suddenly became aware of Howard Levy and his extended techniques.

00:17:20.787 --> 00:17:30.982
It was this kind of both a personal excitement for me, kind of new materials, new instruments, new technical ideas, also information.

00:17:31.542 --> 00:17:35.569
I was also in touch with Pat Misson, who's this kind of secret genius.

00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:38.253
There was Bob Shatkin who passed away.

00:17:38.594 --> 00:17:40.214
We all kind of found each other.

00:17:40.234 --> 00:17:43.778
And, you know, we'd all kind of existed in isolation.

00:17:43.798 --> 00:17:45.660
I had never really met anybody.

00:17:45.980 --> 00:17:50.663
The only other harmonica player I'd ever really met, he was in Ann Arbor, where I grew up.

00:17:50.924 --> 00:17:53.267
But I didn't really know Matt Catt well.

00:17:53.727 --> 00:17:55.528
And, you know, he was older than me.

00:17:56.048 --> 00:17:57.730
So I kind of learned on my own.

00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:07.798
You know, I had developed a pretty impressive technique for a young guy in terms of my own style and fairly fluid up and down the harmonica.

00:18:07.838 --> 00:18:15.028
And I think I think also because of my attention to the pre-war players, tone was an important aspect of it.

00:18:15.208 --> 00:18:16.730
Rhythm was an important aspect of it.

00:18:38.402 --> 00:18:45.748
And also bends on the higher end of the harmonica, which traditional blues players tended to avoid for some reason.

00:18:45.887 --> 00:18:47.130
Post-war players did.

00:18:47.589 --> 00:18:54.536
And then in the late 80s, early 90s, by accident, I had heard of overblows, but I'd never heard anybody do it.

00:18:54.596 --> 00:18:57.117
And then I was playing with somebody.

00:18:57.238 --> 00:19:01.321
I had a, I think it was a D-flat orchestra.

00:19:01.582 --> 00:19:04.183
I don't remember if you remember the orchestra harmonicas.

00:19:04.243 --> 00:19:05.144
They no longer make them.

00:19:05.204 --> 00:19:08.367
It was a honer harmonica with a, it had metal teeth in the cone.

00:19:08.367 --> 00:19:12.593
They were the first honer harmonicas that were in harmonic minor.

00:19:12.653 --> 00:19:13.953
They didn't have natural minor.

00:19:13.993 --> 00:19:15.214
They have harmonic minor.

00:19:15.435 --> 00:19:19.660
They have different orchestra harmonicas in different keys and sizes.

00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.183
And anyway, I accidentally played a six over blow.

00:19:23.203 --> 00:19:30.551
And I was like, holy smokes, this actually exists, you know, because I just heard of it, but I never done it or heard anybody do it.

00:19:30.852 --> 00:19:37.318
So then I kind of got obsessed with that, drove everybody crazy, you know, making awful sounds.

00:19:37.638 --> 00:19:46.568
But that also became part of my technical language was involved, you know, playing more modern techniques mixed with the older technique.

00:19:46.608 --> 00:19:48.089
Do you play many overblows now?

00:19:48.371 --> 00:19:52.315
Yeah, but I'm not even close to somebody like Howard.

00:19:52.714 --> 00:20:04.228
The overbow six is the best bend in the harmonica in a way because, you know, you can bend it up and you can start up and go down, but you can bend it, I think, a tone and a half.

00:20:04.347 --> 00:20:08.271
So, you know, in terms of gliss, you know, second to the two and three hole...

00:20:08.271 --> 00:20:11.174
It's the largest gliss on the instrument, practically.

00:20:11.335 --> 00:20:14.838
And it's an important note in blues scales, right?

00:20:14.878 --> 00:20:22.086
So I tend to use that fairly often stylistically, and I use overdraws.

00:20:22.126 --> 00:20:31.195
At a certain point, when I started being a band leader, over time, my musical emphasis has really shifted.

00:20:31.217 --> 00:20:32.897
I mean, two things happen.

00:20:33.098 --> 00:20:35.421
One, I'm no longer a hotshot.

00:20:35.461 --> 00:20:38.785
There's so many people that are way hotter shotters than And I am.

00:20:38.964 --> 00:20:41.769
There are people who are just mind-boggling now.

00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:48.820
They also benefit from, you know, endless YouTube demonstrations by people like Jason.

00:20:49.041 --> 00:20:52.686
And I think this is something that's not just for Monica.

00:20:52.707 --> 00:20:53.749
It's everywhere.

00:20:53.828 --> 00:20:58.817
Like technical prowess has grown phenomenally in instrumental.

00:20:59.598 --> 00:21:01.362
That has its own issues.

00:21:01.794 --> 00:21:06.762
You know, I really became a band leader and then I got really interested in songwriting.

00:21:06.803 --> 00:21:15.897
Musically, to me, songwriting is the most interesting aspect of being a musician because you're just giving birth to something that didn't exist before.

00:21:16.239 --> 00:21:23.210
And the challenge of lyrics and melody together is are really complex and hard.

00:21:23.369 --> 00:21:35.006
You know, like you can write melodies and you can write poetry, but writing lyrics that relate to a melody that deal with content is another kind of creative language.

00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:39.172
And

00:21:48.324 --> 00:21:54.811
I find that Most harmonica players are oriented towards being instrumentalists.

00:21:55.329 --> 00:22:05.898
And I've really become less and less interested in that over time and more interested in the idea of creating music, creating a sound, creating synthesis.

00:22:06.179 --> 00:22:09.962
I think that comes through because your harmonica, it's part of a big whole, isn't it?

00:22:10.002 --> 00:22:11.663
So let's get on to the band now.

00:22:11.763 --> 00:22:16.929
So your band is, if people haven't heard of it already, I'm sure they have, is Hazmat Mordeen.

00:22:17.388 --> 00:22:19.490
Probably worth you just explaining what the name means.

00:22:20.392 --> 00:22:24.255
Hazmat is a word for hazardous materials.

00:22:24.335 --> 00:22:25.115
So you see it on...

00:22:25.296 --> 00:22:25.597
Thank you.

00:22:25.698 --> 00:22:29.221
tunnels and trucks and, you know, no hazmats allowed.

00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:38.128
And Modine is a brand of heater that uses forced air from a small town in Illinois.

00:22:38.189 --> 00:22:39.250
It's an American brand.

00:22:39.329 --> 00:22:41.250
I just, I like the name Modine.

00:22:41.271 --> 00:22:43.492
It sounds like a 50s band.

00:22:43.894 --> 00:22:48.238
I like the fact that the name sounds exotic, but it's really quite American.

00:22:48.577 --> 00:22:51.319
So the band has been going now for, I think, 24 years.

00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.541
I think you said 1998 you formed it.

00:22:53.821 --> 00:22:54.063
Oh, yeah.

00:22:54.423 --> 00:22:55.584
Initially, it was with...

00:22:55.663 --> 00:22:57.705
Randy Weinstein, yes, as you mentioned.

00:22:57.806 --> 00:23:02.450
And it grew from there into what is now a big band with what, like eight, nine members, yeah?

00:23:02.569 --> 00:23:05.712
Well, so the original idea was I wanted to have a harmonica band.

00:23:05.813 --> 00:23:07.134
I approached Dennis Gruenling.

00:23:07.193 --> 00:23:08.515
He was a kid at the time.

00:23:08.654 --> 00:23:09.776
He wasn't interested.

00:23:09.955 --> 00:23:11.438
You know, he does his own thing.

00:23:11.738 --> 00:23:12.618
Randy and I met.

00:23:12.719 --> 00:23:15.842
So when I moved to New York, I met Rob Paparazzi.

00:23:16.082 --> 00:23:19.404
He's a professional harmonica player living in this area.

00:23:19.825 --> 00:23:22.547
One of the main studio harmonica players.

00:23:25.634 --> 00:23:30.334
Thank you.

00:23:34.882 --> 00:23:39.526
We started something called the New York Readsters Club, I think it was.

00:23:40.166 --> 00:23:45.550
And once or twice a year, we'd have a get-together with all these professional harmonica players.

00:23:45.671 --> 00:23:51.616
So Donnie Brooks, I don't know if you know Donnie, played with the outlaws like Wayling Jennings.

00:23:52.156 --> 00:23:54.499
Pierre Beauregard came from the Cape.

00:23:54.719 --> 00:23:55.680
Joe Felisco came.

00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:57.340
Howard came a bunch of times.

00:23:57.642 --> 00:24:01.204
And then we had a bunch of the older chromatic players.

00:24:01.585 --> 00:24:03.066
The Skrull Brothers came.

00:24:03.366 --> 00:24:05.648
I mean, it was really kind of an amazing thing.

00:24:05.729 --> 00:24:09.772
All these people, you know, like I said, we kind of found each other at the time.

00:24:10.114 --> 00:24:11.174
Kim Field came.

00:24:11.214 --> 00:24:12.435
It was just a group.

00:24:12.516 --> 00:24:15.680
And Randy was one of the people who was brought by somebody else.

00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.339
So I met him.

00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.163
Everybody went around the table, said what they were interested in.

00:24:19.182 --> 00:24:22.527
Ironically, Randy and I were interested in the same thing.

00:24:22.707 --> 00:24:24.669
So I said, okay, let's start a band.

00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:27.692
For a year, we met and didn't really do anything.

00:24:27.873 --> 00:24:29.954
And then a friend of mine had a wedding.

00:24:29.994 --> 00:24:31.496
He said, well, you could play the wedding.

00:24:31.557 --> 00:24:33.759
And I was like, okay, I've got to get this together.

00:24:34.179 --> 00:24:42.307
I always wanted wanted tuba because i just think it's an amazing instrument never had a bass player from the beginning we've had a tuba player from the very

00:24:42.387 --> 00:24:43.169
beginning

00:24:43.189 --> 00:25:07.555
so it started with two harmonicas guitar tuba and drums over the years you know personnel has changed or morphed now you know it has a full horn section so we have saxophone uh he also plays clarinet and flute and we have trumpet and we have trombone we've had various times had two harmonicas two guitars but but we've also used accordion, claviola.

00:25:07.795 --> 00:25:12.559
We've collaborated with African bands and Kronos Quartet.

00:25:12.921 --> 00:25:22.191
Over the years, the band has really grown both in terms of instrumentation, but also like my concept of what I'm doing with it.

00:25:22.691 --> 00:25:25.433
What about the role of the harmonica in such a big outfit then?

00:25:25.473 --> 00:25:34.384
Because I think a lot of harmonica players might be intimidated by the fact that there are all these other instruments, you know, saxophone and clarinets and flutes, but that's something you embraced, right?

00:25:34.423 --> 00:25:35.545
You want at all those instruments.

00:25:35.806 --> 00:25:38.449
Yeah, I mean, I love the palette and I'm greedy.

00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:40.531
And, you know, I always like this instrument.

00:25:40.551 --> 00:25:41.413
I want this instrument.

00:25:41.433 --> 00:25:42.474
I want that instrument.

00:25:42.796 --> 00:25:47.241
Initially, the sound was very much about the diatonic and chromatic together.

00:25:47.402 --> 00:25:50.426
And Randy also, you know, swings both ways.

00:25:50.527 --> 00:25:55.634
So he plays chromatic very well and he plays diatonic very well.

00:25:55.693 --> 00:25:58.878
But, you know, that sound of two harmonicas, I really love.

00:26:03.586 --> 00:26:07.261
piano plays Thank you.

00:26:10.690 --> 00:26:21.799
Because when I first started writing songs, I had an old boombox, and I just, you know, I did what a lot of harmonica players have done over time, is just overdubbed one over the other.

00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:25.323
And that was kind of the first idea of the sound of the band.

00:26:25.542 --> 00:26:30.227
Like, I couldn't play two harmonicas at once, so I wanted to find other harmonica players to do it.

00:26:30.446 --> 00:26:32.588
There's not many bands with two harmonicas.

00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:34.330
Bacon Fat comes to mind.

00:26:34.530 --> 00:26:36.873
I mean, it was completely unusual.

00:26:36.893 --> 00:26:40.476
I mean, as far as I know, it was the only band...

00:26:40.655 --> 00:26:57.673
know for over 10 years it was always two harmonicas i think harmonica players are often insecure they overplay and they're competitive but i just like the sound i also like the sound of chromatic against diatonic because they're really basically kind of two different instruments

00:26:57.933 --> 00:27:02.980
yeah i think that is unique i don't think there's any band i've heard with a chromatic and a diatonic regularly playing together

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:13.530
right and and randy has beautiful tone because he studied chicago playing first before he became a jazz player so he can really get a great sound.

00:27:14.031 --> 00:27:18.036
And then after Randy left, he was in the band about 10 years.

00:27:18.096 --> 00:27:22.480
We had Bill Barrett, who's also an extraordinarily talented chromatic player.

00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:25.144
And he was in the band, I think, five or six years.

00:27:25.564 --> 00:27:27.705
So are you the only harmonica player now?

00:27:28.086 --> 00:27:28.386
I am.

00:27:28.446 --> 00:27:32.692
You know, after Bill left, I just didn't feel it was necessary to have both.

00:27:33.152 --> 00:27:47.768
It's honestly very hard to find someone who plays, generally speaking, diatonic players play blues or rock, chromatic players play jazz or classical and we don't play any of those really.

00:27:47.788 --> 00:27:55.435
The kind of music I play is not really jazz but it's definitely not really blues or rock.

00:27:55.655 --> 00:28:05.906
So finding people who are interested in doing it and also have the ability to play fluidly in that musical context is just not that common.

00:28:06.468 --> 00:28:12.294
We'll talk through some of the albums that the band's had now just to get a flavour of all the different styles of music you play.

00:28:12.334 --> 00:28:23.625
So, you know, reading through the list, you sort of played African music, Asian music, Caribbean, Klezmer, Gypsy, you know, all we kind of blues as its core and a kind of American roots band, I think you describe it as, yeah.

00:28:23.945 --> 00:28:28.971
I would say we're influenced by all those musics, but I don't purport to play any of that.

00:28:29.211 --> 00:28:31.554
I've never studied Romanian music.

00:28:31.855 --> 00:28:35.258
I've never studied Central Asian music.

00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.563
I'm just influenced by it kind of tonally and conceptually.

00:28:39.583 --> 00:28:43.847
I've never been interested in being a kind of repertoire.

00:28:43.928 --> 00:28:50.013
You know, like people play Irish music and they learn Irish music and they learn all the ornaments and stuff.

00:28:50.315 --> 00:28:54.338
That's beautiful, but that's not the kind of musician I am.

00:28:54.358 --> 00:29:00.585
I think people hear that a lot of our songs are in minor and they jump to assumptions, you know.

00:29:01.066 --> 00:29:10.415
And I also would say that so many people in the band come from different musical languages that the end result is the influence, but not the literal truth.

00:29:10.415 --> 00:29:11.257
So

00:29:11.557 --> 00:29:16.402
talking about your first album, which was released in 2006, I think, Bahamut.

00:29:16.682 --> 00:29:17.644
A fantastic album.

00:29:17.683 --> 00:29:20.185
If anyone hasn't heard it, I highly recommend you check it out.

00:29:20.205 --> 00:29:22.808
So I think this took you sort of five years to get out there.

00:29:23.410 --> 00:29:25.231
Were you putting it together for five years?

00:29:25.251 --> 00:29:25.893
I think it

00:29:25.932 --> 00:29:27.034
took seven years.

00:29:27.294 --> 00:29:27.653
I mean,

00:29:28.955 --> 00:29:32.960
I would say my strength musically is taste.

00:29:33.421 --> 00:29:38.405
That is, I have a very clear idea of what I'm trying to do.

00:29:38.445 --> 00:29:40.167
And it comes from...

00:29:40.367 --> 00:30:10.800
very deep impulses and sensibilities i wanted it to be exactly what i wanted it to be somebody once said to me you know the difference between now is in the old days musicians played all the time and toured but they hardly ever recorded and if they did record it was very expensive and they didn't have control now everybody can record anything at any time very easily but nobody plays all the time and and performs all the time like in the old days and i think that's very true.

00:30:10.861 --> 00:30:21.050
And I think a lot of contemporary production is not very creative and not very sophisticated in terms of the concept of what an album is.

00:30:21.211 --> 00:30:31.823
And I am profoundly in love with the old-fashioned idea of an assortment of related musical ideas that create a kind of overall aesthetic effect.

00:30:31.982 --> 00:30:34.746
I didn't just want a record of the band.

00:30:35.146 --> 00:30:38.769
I wanted to create a piece of art that existed in and of itself.

00:30:38.931 --> 00:30:40.271
You know, say like how Sgt.

00:30:40.271 --> 00:30:46.358
And so Bahama took me a long time because I just didn't like so many things.

00:30:46.699 --> 00:30:50.163
And I've also always been interested in field recordings.

00:30:50.542 --> 00:30:54.547
I did a lot of recordings of sounds and brought things together.

00:30:54.586 --> 00:31:03.957
That first album is really made of many different musicians who maybe came in the band or left the band, were placed by other musicians.

00:31:04.518 --> 00:31:05.558
It was hard won.

00:31:05.578 --> 00:31:10.223
I probably spent$70,000, at least, making that album.

00:31:10.223 --> 00:31:14.430
making that album over those years, which was a lot of money.

00:31:33.698 --> 00:31:36.299
Yeah, but it was really well received when it came out.

00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:38.041
And again, it is a fantastic album.

00:31:38.102 --> 00:31:43.145
I think, you know, what a mixture of fantastic songs on there and lots of great harmonica on there too.

00:31:43.226 --> 00:31:44.688
So it did well.

00:31:44.748 --> 00:31:47.410
Did you recoup much of that$70,000?

00:31:47.609 --> 00:31:50.092
Yeah, I mean, back in those days, people bought music.

00:31:50.311 --> 00:31:55.497
So this was kind of at the very end of a certain time.

00:31:55.517 --> 00:32:00.721
You know, we were doing something that was a little bit cutting edge and that there was interest at that time.

00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:10.554
The wall had come down and East Eastern European music was influencing, brass music was influencing kind of a certain scene in New York.

00:32:11.035 --> 00:32:15.760
And we were kind of associated with a certain kind of scene at that time.

00:32:16.122 --> 00:32:19.507
And there was still record stores and airplay.

00:32:19.727 --> 00:32:23.592
The title track, Bahama, was kind of a hit and still is a hit.

00:32:23.612 --> 00:32:35.778
¶¶ Bye.

00:32:41.122 --> 00:32:43.384
I still sell that album all the time.

00:32:43.684 --> 00:32:45.647
Now, of course, nobody really buys music.

00:32:45.728 --> 00:32:46.689
Everybody streams.

00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:48.191
So that's a whole nother thing.

00:32:48.271 --> 00:32:53.117
But we're living through the death of the music industry as we knew it.

00:32:53.417 --> 00:32:56.663
And the repercussions are just beginning to be understood.

00:32:56.982 --> 00:33:00.928
On that point there, that's like you say, the death of recorded albums.

00:33:00.968 --> 00:33:04.593
I mean, you know, would you go and spend$70,000 on making an album now?

00:33:04.633 --> 00:33:04.753
Right.

00:33:04.773 --> 00:33:05.374
You probably wouldn't.

00:33:05.413 --> 00:33:05.575
Right.

00:33:05.595 --> 00:33:07.196
Because, you know, you'd never get that money back.

00:33:07.396 --> 00:33:09.420
We're about to record a new album.

00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:13.101
We have enough for, I guess, couple albums of new songs.

00:33:13.826 --> 00:33:21.332

Wade Schuman interview

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