Nov. 2, 2023

Vitor Lopes interview

Vitor Lopes joins me on episode 97. He is a Brazilian chromatic player who specialises in Choro music. Vitor tells us about the history of the harmonica in Brazil, starting out when Hohner opened a factory there in 1923, which later became the Hering factory. The availability of harmonicas in Brazil made the instrument very popular and spawned some tremendous players. In 2008 Vitor was awarded the APCA prize for the best Brazilian musician of the year. He has recorded several Choro albums wit...

Vitor Lopes joins me on episode 97.
He is a Brazilian chromatic player who specialises in Choro music.

Vitor tells us about the history of the harmonica in Brazil, starting out when Hohner opened a factory there in 1923, which later became the Hering factory. The availability of harmonicas in Brazil made the instrument very popular and spawned some tremendous players.

In 2008 Vitor was awarded the APCA prize for the best Brazilian musician of the year. He has recorded several Choro albums with his bands, has toured in Europe several times and appears on numerous albums with other musicians.

If you want to learn some Choro, Vitor has an online course available so you can play some of this wonderful music on the chromatic harmonica.

Links:
Chorando as Pitangas band website:
https://chorandoaspitangas.com

Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vitor-lopes-harm/tracks

Vitor’s Choro harmonica course:
https://hotmart.com/en/marketplace/products/choro-harmonica-with-vitor-lopes/U51984467A?sck=HOTMART_SITE

Videos:

History of harmonica in Brazil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIF4-7Em_aw

Edu da Gaita playing Paganini’s Moto Perpetuo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w8j_gfIEiU

Vitor’s series of videos on Brazilian Choro music on harmonica:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb7Pnj0vhWE3TcArNwNkjO4P9IQVCAbxA&si=Ai7wIhxP7LTXzrV-

Concert with Chorando as Pitangas:
https://youtu.be/Wbe2Dr0oi9s?si=IyiLCCHoiwHevJ2f

With Ana Fridman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuxUvAEIPCM

Duo with Pablo Fagundes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s87mSjNEGJ8

Vitor playing diatonic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-RtOdozKdw

Suzuki condenser mic overview from Joe Powers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQKs3yFRInc

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram

Support the show

01:30 - Vitor is a Brazilian chromatic player

01:57 - The history of the harmonica in Brazil, started by the opening of the Hering factory in 1923, originally opened by Hohner

02:46 - Hohner sold the factory to some Brazilians, and they changed the name to Hering

03:07 - Hering probably moved off using Hohner components as a result of World War II

04:00 - Vitor has a Japanese mother, so he is aware of the difficult time Japanese, Italians and Germans had in Brazil during WWII

04:09 - How Hering evolved to become the most important manufacturer of harmonicas in South America

05:13 - The Hering factory was instrumental in the harmonica becoming so popular in Brazil

05:29 - Edu da Gaita was an early pioneer of the harmonica in Brazil, with him winning some championships set-up by Hering

06:25 - Edu da Gaita started his career busking on the streets of Sao Paulo

07:15 - Edu da Gaita went on to record the first wind instrument version of Paganini’s Moto Perpetuo

10:04 - Lots of players in Brazil started out on diatonic harmonica, including Vitor’s teacher Omar Izar, who went on to play chromatic

10:49 - In the beginning lots of different types of harmonicas were played in Brazil but over time the chromatic is the most popular now

11:23 - The history of music in Brazil means there is a lot of regional Brazilian music played on the harmonica

12:09 - Use of diatonic for blues in Brazil started in the late 1980s, led by Flávio Guimarães

12:55 - Vitor specialises in Choro music

13:24 - History of Choro music has it’s origins in classical Portuguese music, with the Brazilians adding their own accent to that

15:07 - Two centuries since it’s beginnings Choro became the foundation of all Brazilian music

15:27 - Brazilian music is very rhythmical and percussive, due to mix of cultures that migrated to Brazil

16:31 - Rhythmic playing on chromatic can be a challenge

16:48 - Vitor has produced some great YouTube videos about Choro music and playing it on the chromatic

17:08 - Initially learnt Choro by ear but then added reading music scores

18:14 - Can play acoustic guitar and piano to a reasonably good level

18:24 - Harmonica was first instrument, taking it seriously from age 14 and performing professionally a year later

19:25 - Has a set of videos about how different instruments have influenced his sound on chromatic

20:49 - The bandolim is a plucked instrument with a very precision staccato attack of the note, which is the opposite of the chromatic

22:15 - What Vitor adapted to harmonica from the flute was legato and using the doubled notes on the chromatic to achieve this

23:12 - Uses an open, soft mouth to get closer to the timbre of the clarinet and drawing inspiration from the great players of those instruments

24:22 - Emulates the sound of the accordion by mixing chords and melody on the chromatic, and uses chords to accompany other instruments

25:39 - Now uses Suzuki Sirius 14 hole chromatic

25:53 - What chords he uses considering the limited chordal possibilities of the chromatic and selecting tunes where it works

26:26 - Likes to play solo harmonica solos with the chords and melody at the same time

27:08 - Um Trio Viralata is Vitor’s first Choro band

28:09 - Toured ten times in Europe with the trio

29:38 - Popularity of Brazilian music around the world

30:09 - Toots Thielemans released The Brazil Project album, with Vitor seeing him perform live in Brazil at this time

31:12 - Chiquinha em Revista album album with Ana Fridman

32:39 - The Choro music scene for harmonica players in Brazil

33:13 - Other Choro harmonica players in Brazil, including Pablo Fagundes, although Vitor was the first to play Choro seriously

34:35 - Harmonica players are becoming more common with Choro groups in Brazil

35:35 - Albums with current group: Chorando as Pitangas, who have played together for more than twenty years

36:23 - Um Passeio na Benedito Calixto album was a tribute to a market in Sao Paulo where Vitor played four hours a day for seven years

37:32 - Cheguei has five different harmonicas, all played by Vitor

38:59 - Choro music is challenging on the chromatic, and Vitor’s dedicated practise routine

39:58 - Writes some new Choro songs, and last album is completely new compositions from the band

40:30 - As well as fast Choro songs, there are also slow ballads

41:00 - Vitor plays some Samba, Tango and other types of Latin music too

41:29 - Recorded a chromatic duo with Pablo Fagundes

42:57 - Vitor has a video tutorial available for anyone who wants to learn some Choro

43:58 - 10 minute question

45:04 - Choro chord structures are quite complex, derived from the different waves of Brazilian colonisation

47:25 - Suzuki Sirius is chromatic of choice. Did play 16 hole, then 12, now 14

47:48 - Vitor plays the 14 hole partly because it has the same range as the bandolim

49:18 - Embouchre: moved over to tongue blocking during pandemic and how learning the tongue switch technique has transformed his playing

51:03 - Using tongue switching lots in latest album: O Tempo E a Arvore

52:30 - Does play some diatonic, and has recorded some

53:36 - Plays acoustically a lot of the time, but does use a condenser mic from Suzuki

55:27 - Two albums released in last year, and plans to release a compilation of this solo harmonica recordings

56:44 - The Bagdad Cafe soundtrack from William Galison

WEBVTT

00:00:00.002 --> 00:00:02.164
Vita Lopes joins me on episode 97.

00:00:02.384 --> 00:00:06.788
Vita is a Brazilian chromatic player who specializes in choral music.

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Vita tells us about the history of the harmonica in Brazil, starting out when Hohner opened a factory there in 1923, which later became the Herring Factory.

00:00:16.579 --> 00:00:21.806
The availability of harmonicas in Brazil made the instrument very popular and spawned some tremendous players.

00:00:23.146 --> 00:00:29.193
In 2008, Vita was awarded the APCA Prize for the Best Brazilian Musician of the Year.

00:00:29.666 --> 00:00:37.578
He has recorded several Choró albums with his bands, has toured in Europe several times and appears on numerous albums with other musicians.

00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:45.168
If you want to learn some Choró, Vito has an online course available so you can play some of this wonderful music on the Chromatic Harmonica.

00:00:45.869 --> 00:00:48.314
This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas.

00:00:48.795 --> 00:00:58.060
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world, at www.zeidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zeidel Harmonicas.

00:01:21.730 --> 00:01:22.237
Thank you.

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Hello, Victor Lopez, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:26.828 --> 00:01:27.769
Hello, Neo.

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I'm very glad to be here.

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Great to have you on from Brazil.

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You live in Sao Paulo in Brazil, yeah?

00:01:34.594 --> 00:01:35.036
Exactly.

00:01:35.316 --> 00:01:38.679
So you're a Brazilian player and you're a chromatic player, yeah?

00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:39.299
Exactly.

00:01:39.338 --> 00:01:47.126
Most of all, I really rather to play the chromatic in all my artistic work are related with

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the use of the chromatic.

00:01:48.727 --> 00:01:52.691
Yeah, and very fine use you make of it as well, which we'll get into.

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But before that, you watching the material you've got out and some great YouTube videos you have.

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You've got a really interesting few videos on the history of the harmonica in Brazil.

00:02:01.980 --> 00:02:03.102
So let's start with that.

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And I think maybe the beginning of it was the opening of the Herring Harmonica Factory in 1923.

00:02:08.026 --> 00:02:10.870
Is this what started off the harmonica craze in Brazil?

00:02:11.310 --> 00:02:11.811
Exactly.

00:02:12.170 --> 00:02:13.012
It was part

00:02:13.312 --> 00:02:39.980
of an Easter tragedy from Horner in Germany to spread the use of the harmonica in the world that took place one century ago, so one of the factories, Horner, started to open several different industries, fabrics for harmonica all over the world, and they chose Blumenau here in the south of Brazil to build one of them.

00:02:40.481 --> 00:02:55.700
So, at the beginning, we had a Horner factory here in Brazil, but with the passage of time, they eventually sell it to a Brazilian group, so they changed the name from Horner to Eding.

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So now we have, until today, they are still on the business.

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Nowadays, they call themselves only the Herring, the Fabric of Harmonica.

00:03:06.978 --> 00:03:07.658
That's interesting.

00:03:07.679 --> 00:03:11.901
I didn't realize that Hohner was the original factory there.

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So did you know what changed from Hohner?

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Did it become completely different when Hohner left and Hering took over?

00:03:18.587 --> 00:03:20.169
I am not sure, but I

00:03:20.810 --> 00:03:21.370
suppose.

00:03:21.790 --> 00:03:22.270
I suppose.

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I never heard anybody talking about this precise point, but I believe that is something related to the Second World War.

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Because after that, basically all the investments made by Germans, Japanese, and Italians here in Brazil were controlled by the government in Brazil, you see, because of the war.

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Brazil took the place of the allies along the war, so the Japanese, the Italians, and the Germans, all of them were treated as enemies, even those who were here in Brazil.

00:03:56.485 --> 00:04:07.929
It was a tough time for them here, and I can say that because my mother is Japanese, so my Japanese family suffered a little bit in the in this period.

00:04:08.322 --> 00:04:08.902
Right.

00:04:09.122 --> 00:04:15.367
So assume then that Herring then started using different materials, you know, to make the harmonicas different re-material.

00:04:15.388 --> 00:04:16.869
They weren't using the whole new material.

00:04:17.069 --> 00:04:21.192
No, yes, but it happens because they are so different now, isn't it?

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But I really cannot say with precision when everything changed, you see.

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But little by little, what I can say is that at the beginning, Herring, it was a group that was manufacturing not only harmonica, but also clothes and toys for kids.

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So little by little, the business with the harmonica grows.

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So little by little, they become the most important factory of harmonicas in South America.

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That's what I know for sure.

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And nowadays, the group is divided.

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So the factory of harmonica in Brazil belongs to someone else than the family.

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The family, Hering, doesn't belong to the factory anymore.

00:05:05.656 --> 00:05:07.598
And Hering made some great harmonicas.

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I definitely own some herring chromatics in the past and they were fine instruments so I have definitely played some herrings but this led to I think the popularity of the harmonica in Brazil right so the fact that you had a you know the factory producing them made them available and I guess quite cheap and yeah so and there's a really interesting story you tell about one a famous player in Brazil which please correct me if I pronounce his name wrong so Edu da Gaita Edu da Gaita was

00:05:37.911 --> 00:05:55.677
his name I may say that once that we had a factory in Brazil, that factory, they were called Hering in that time already, they started to promote a lot of championships to give prizes to the best harmonica players.

00:05:56.559 --> 00:06:01.286
And they started to make this kind of championships all over the country.

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So that was something that really, really impulsioned the use of the harmonica in Brazil.

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And, of course, the fact that it is a ship instrument, isn't it?

00:06:14.077 --> 00:06:21.766
So that, for obvious reasons, makes it easier for us to purchase the instrument, isn't it?

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So it became really very, very popular here in Brazil.

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Pedro da Gaita, who was born in the south of Brazil, And he started to play in the South Hill.

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So when he become a little bit older, around his 20s, he came to Sao Paulo.

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And he started to perform in the front of the stores exactly to make the advertisement of the instrument for the customers who was just passing by the street.

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And he was making concerts and performances in the street in front of the stores.

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So that's how he started his career.

00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:09.766
But he eventually became a professional and he started to record with several artists of Brazil.

00:07:10.608 --> 00:07:14.702
And he started to record his own long plays.

00:07:15.105 --> 00:07:28.538
Yeah, and he did a recording of Paganini's Molto Perpetuo, which is a very challenging violin piece, as probably most of Paganini's pieces were, which, you know, are very challenging to play on the chromatic harmonica.

00:07:28.577 --> 00:07:29.999
Yeah, so tell us about that one.

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In that time, all the harmonica players here in Brazil used to play lots of different styles, different genres, isn't it?

00:07:40.108 --> 00:07:55.903
So Edu da Gaeta himself used to play some Brazilian popular music He used to play some standards of jazz, and he could also play some classical pieces, such as the Moto Perpetuo from Paganini.

00:07:56.684 --> 00:08:08.375
And this recording was really, really famous because we recorded in the studio in Rio de Janeiro with Leo Peracchi at the piano, if I'm not mistaken.

00:08:08.716 --> 00:08:17.237
People say that they went into the recording studio And they rehearsed a lot to play, of course.

00:08:17.817 --> 00:08:24.204
And then when they started the recording, the first run was just perfect, was the best one.

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But in the last seconds of the recording sessions, someone inside the studio made a huge noise.

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This guy screwed all the recording.

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So they were obliged to repeat.

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And he made almost 40...

00:08:41.953 --> 00:09:10.110
repetitions recordings of the same track so and after that he eventually picked one of them so

00:09:12.097 --> 00:09:16.504
I understand this is the first recording by a wind instrument of this piece by Paganini.

00:09:16.725 --> 00:09:17.186
Exactly.

00:09:17.225 --> 00:09:18.087
It is mentioned

00:09:18.187 --> 00:09:21.614
even in the Guinness Books of Records.

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He's written there that.

00:09:24.618 --> 00:09:24.839
Yeah.

00:09:25.119 --> 00:09:26.280
So yeah, an incredible piece.

00:09:26.301 --> 00:09:28.784
And apparently he was learning it for like 11 years, this piece.

00:09:28.845 --> 00:09:29.947
And yeah, very challenging.

00:09:30.126 --> 00:09:30.889
Very challenging.

00:09:31.129 --> 00:09:31.389
So...

00:09:31.809 --> 00:09:36.573
This was back in the early days of Brazilian harmonica music.

00:09:36.833 --> 00:09:38.034
He was born in 1916.

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So is he one of the forerunners of the Brazilian players?

00:09:41.557 --> 00:09:43.840
He was the first one who

00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:45.422
became a real star.

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Because of him, I know lots of harmonica players that started to play the harmonica.

00:09:52.488 --> 00:09:54.889
And so in those early days, he played the chromatic.

00:09:54.950 --> 00:09:57.172
So was it the chromatic that was popular in Brazil?

00:09:57.231 --> 00:10:00.554
And obviously, I know there's lots of different players in Brazil now, which we'll get on to shortly.

00:10:00.575 --> 00:10:01.775
But was it the chromatic?

00:10:01.775 --> 00:10:04.802
Actually, here in Brazil,

00:10:05.142 --> 00:10:09.870
most of the harmonica players started playing the diatonic models.

00:10:10.552 --> 00:10:22.696
For example, Omar Izar, who was my master, my particular master of harmonica, Omar Izar started playing in a sonhadora model, which is a diatonic model.

00:10:23.437 --> 00:10:32.501
But He only played by ears, so eventually he noticed that there are some notes that were lacking in his instrument.

00:10:33.003 --> 00:10:38.270
So one day he discovered the chromatic one and he changed it for the chromatica.

00:10:49.366 --> 00:10:58.076
So in the beginning, We were playing here in Brazil all kinds, all types of harmonica, not only the chromatic.

00:10:58.498 --> 00:11:05.437
So, for example, in the northeast of Brazil, we had a lot of great musicians playing.

00:11:06.049 --> 00:11:15.971
playing the diatonic models, which is a very good instrument to play some regional music, some folklorical music from the northeast of Brazil, you see?

00:11:16.312 --> 00:11:22.706
But with the passage of time, the chromatic become the most used here in Brazil.

00:11:23.629 --> 00:11:25.773
So yeah, it's interesting that you say about playing...

00:11:26.145 --> 00:11:28.090
Brazilian music on the harmonica.

00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:30.232
Is that what it's used a lot for?

00:11:30.875 --> 00:11:36.565
Obviously, there are blues players and what we'd expect to hear on the diatonic harmonica and other harmonicas.

00:11:36.946 --> 00:11:41.673
But is there a lot of Brazilian regional music played on the harmonica as well?

00:11:42.475 --> 00:11:42.716
Yeah.

00:11:42.855 --> 00:11:45.520
Here in Brazil, the history is a little bit like this.

00:11:46.182 --> 00:11:48.005
At the beginning, we had a Duda Gaita.

00:11:48.385 --> 00:11:51.068
He was the former harmonica player.

00:11:51.149 --> 00:11:54.673
He was a big inspiration for all the next generations.

00:11:55.073 --> 00:12:09.032
So after him, we had lots of great harmonica players who were dedicated to play the chromatic, such as Omar Izar, Maurice Schweinhorn, Rio Duora, Fred Williams.

00:12:09.591 --> 00:12:21.946
But using the diatonic harmonica in Brazil, we started in the in the end of the 80s when Flavio Guimarães, a great blues player from Rio de Janeiro...

00:12:35.298 --> 00:12:40.965
started to play the diatonic professionally with his band, which is called Blues Etílicos.

00:12:41.926 --> 00:12:47.292
And he is the guy who brought the harmonica blues to Brazil.

00:12:47.711 --> 00:12:54.600
So he is the inspiration for the next generation of blues players here in Brazil.

00:12:55.601 --> 00:12:59.405
You yourself specialize in choral music.

00:12:59.682 --> 00:13:03.048
So this is a type of Brazilian sort of swing music.

00:13:03.148 --> 00:13:04.691
It's fast and it's challenging.

00:13:06.715 --> 00:13:17.975
So, you know, how would you describe

00:13:18.195 --> 00:13:19.017
Choro music to us?

00:13:19.417 --> 00:13:41.471
Well, the history of Choro Neo, it's pretty interesting because the history of Choro began in the beginning of the 19th century when the Portuguese royal family moved to Brazil because they were afraid of the invasion of the French army led by Napoleon Bonaparte.

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Napoleon Bonaparte, he invaded Spain and Portugal in the beginning of the 19th century.

00:13:48.557 --> 00:13:54.543
So, the royal Portuguese family, they moved from Lisbon to Rio de Janeiro.

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So, from the night to the day, Rio de Janeiro became the capital of European royal music.

00:14:03.014 --> 00:14:09.522
And when they came here, the royal family brought along with them great musicians from Europe.

00:14:10.163 --> 00:14:13.187
And those musicians started to play in Rio de Janeiro, of course.

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And that just...

00:14:15.714 --> 00:14:18.724
thrilled the Brazilian musicians of that period.

00:14:19.144 --> 00:14:24.783
So the Brazilian musicians, they were just fascinated for that music, for that European music.

00:14:25.104 --> 00:14:28.173
So they were trying to repeat it here in Brazil.

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But when he was trying to do this, they started to play the European music of that time with a certain Brazilian accent.

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It's from that that the choro will be born.

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After some decades, we will finally have something new here in Brazil.

00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:51.581
And this was the choro.

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That's why the choro is an instrumental music.

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And it was a virtuosity.

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It demands the virtuosity of the players.

00:15:01.912 --> 00:15:07.100
So the choro, the history of the choro is pretty much connected with the classical European music.

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After two centuries, the choro have developed and become the foundation music of Brazil.

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It's from the choro that will be born later the samba, the frevo, the bossa nova, forró,

00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.721
everything comes from the choro.

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Oh, that's great.

00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:23.931
Yeah.

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And a really interesting thing, I think, to pick up on, you know, Brazilian music is, you know, it's very rhythmical.

00:15:30.475 --> 00:15:34.059
You've got really strong connections with percussion and dancing, right?

00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:42.966
You know, and rhythm is such a fundamental part of the way that you connect to music over there, which I think is different than the West, where we, you know, in the West, we tend to focus more on melody.

00:15:43.047 --> 00:15:50.754
So, you know, what about that, you know, and the fact that rhythm is such an integral part to how you play choral music, particularly on how you play it on the chromatic harmonica?

00:15:51.254 --> 00:15:52.916
Yeah, the rhythm is a very...

00:15:52.975 --> 00:15:56.799
thing to all Brazilian styles, all of them.

00:15:57.019 --> 00:16:04.327
That's because we have a mix of cultures here in Brazil, a very special mix of cultures.

00:16:04.388 --> 00:16:16.581
So we have the original people from here, the Indians, who already made a very beautiful music, and we had the slaves who came from Africa with their own cultures.

00:16:17.022 --> 00:16:26.616
So everything together here with the European culture brought by the Portuguese are the basis of all the Brazilian manifestations, isn't it?

00:16:26.758 --> 00:16:30.868
So that's why the rhythm is so important for us, you see?

00:16:30.908 --> 00:16:34.417
And that's pretty much a challenge for the harmonica, of course.

00:16:34.977 --> 00:16:47.903
because we got to use a lot of staccato notes in order to produce the attack with precision that will make the characteristics of the Brazilian popular

00:16:47.964 --> 00:16:48.345
music.

00:16:48.566 --> 00:16:54.356
Yeah, and you do some great YouTube videos where you talk about choral music and you do one on the basic choral rhythm.

00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:16.280
So when you're learning the rhythms on the chromatic, are you doing that from reading music scores or do you do it from, you know, your knowledge of what the rhythm needs to be, you know, sort of playing by the rhythm by ear?

00:17:17.082 --> 00:17:17.862
Actually, I use both.

00:17:18.823 --> 00:17:18.943
As

00:17:19.624 --> 00:17:27.932
many of the Brazilian musicians, I started playing by ear, playing by heart, you know, just using my ears to understand the rhythms.

00:17:28.992 --> 00:17:33.778
And here in Brazil, we have a natural musicianship, you see, as a people.

00:17:34.498 --> 00:17:40.482
So, for example, our childhood music, there's a lot of syncopes.

00:17:41.564 --> 00:17:52.073
We have a lot of the children's songs here that are really hard to someone who is not Brazilian to understand where the accent lies, you see?

00:17:52.693 --> 00:17:56.057
So, that's really natural for all of us.

00:17:56.856 --> 00:18:07.007
So, in my case in particular, I started playing by ear and eventually I learned how to to read music, how to write music.

00:18:07.448 --> 00:18:08.990
I studied harmony.

00:18:09.069 --> 00:18:10.171
I studied improvisation.

00:18:10.230 --> 00:18:11.833
I studied arrangements.

00:18:12.394 --> 00:18:13.855
I studied counterpoint.

00:18:14.356 --> 00:18:17.760
I can manage, well, reasonably, the acoustic guitar.

00:18:17.881 --> 00:18:19.363
I can play a little bit of piano.

00:18:19.723 --> 00:18:23.808
So with all of that, I have constructed my own career.

00:18:23.868 --> 00:18:25.411
What was your first instrument?

00:18:25.651 --> 00:18:29.455
My first memory, musical memory, is with a harmonica.

00:18:29.856 --> 00:18:33.882
And I don't remember how old I was because...

00:18:34.273 --> 00:18:43.314
But I imagine that I was just a little shy because the harmonica, I remember that the harmonica seems very big to me.

00:18:44.513 --> 00:18:47.858
So I presume that I was really, really small.

00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.084
And I remember the taste of the harmonic in my mouth.

00:18:52.464 --> 00:18:55.648
I always loved the sound, the sonority of the harmonica.

00:18:56.289 --> 00:19:02.317
When I had about 12 years, I fell in love with the guitar, the acoustic guitar.

00:19:02.377 --> 00:19:06.723
So I started to play the acoustic guitar always by ear, okay?

00:19:07.184 --> 00:19:11.431
Only play some Brazilian music, some rock and roll music as well.

00:19:11.951 --> 00:19:18.919
When I was 14 years, I decided to play, to learn how to play the harmonica.

00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:24.905
And in one year, I was already performing professionally here in Sao Paulo.

00:19:25.405 --> 00:19:32.574
I mean, again, sticking on the Churro topic, you do, again, a great series of videos about what you can learn from each instrument.

00:19:32.634 --> 00:19:35.037
So, yeah, it'd be great to talk through some of that.

00:19:35.096 --> 00:19:40.623
So let's start with the bandolin, first of all, which is kind of like a plucked string instrument.

00:19:40.643 --> 00:19:43.486
It's kind of like a mandolin sounding, but with more strings, yeah?

00:19:43.938 --> 00:19:44.759
It's exactly that.

00:19:44.798 --> 00:19:46.642
The mandolin is a mandolin, actually.

00:19:47.844 --> 00:19:50.548
I don't know what is the difference between them.

00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:53.272
I think it's the same instrument, actually.

00:19:53.574 --> 00:20:04.050
Here, in the beginning, the Shoto music was an attempt to copy the European music, which was a chamber music.

00:20:04.211 --> 00:20:08.018
So they didn't have the percussion on it.

00:20:08.258 --> 00:20:24.089
So, the first choro groups here, they were trios, they were called here Trio de Pau e Corda, because they were made of a wood flute, a cavaquinho, and a six-string acoustic guitar.

00:20:24.354 --> 00:20:25.155
That was the bass.

00:20:25.195 --> 00:20:27.122
This is the first formation.

00:20:27.564 --> 00:20:33.701
Little by little, other instruments were coming to the choro, such as the clarinet, the flute, and everything else.

00:20:34.282 --> 00:20:38.936
And that's pretty important to mention because this...

00:20:39.394 --> 00:20:47.009
initial instrument will give all the sonority of all the identity of that genre.

00:20:47.371 --> 00:20:56.590
So, in the case of the bandolim, as a plucked string instrument, they have a very precision attack of the note.

00:20:57.512 --> 00:20:57.813
Okay?

00:20:58.114 --> 00:21:04.115
So, when they pick the The chord, the attack of the note is immediate.

00:21:04.214 --> 00:21:05.596
It's just right away, you know?

00:21:05.615 --> 00:21:17.690
And so what we have to learn from that in terms of harmonica is that harmonica and the bandolim have different envelopes of sound, of sonority, you see?

00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:24.617
So when you think about the bandolim, the first attack of it is pretty strong.

00:21:25.026 --> 00:21:28.230
But it decays pretty quickly as well.

00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:34.438
And the harmonica is the opposite because we have all the reeds of harmonica.

00:21:34.478 --> 00:21:40.045
They took a little time, a very small time to produce sound.

00:21:40.605 --> 00:21:46.291
So we always have this little, little delay on the attack of the harmonica.

00:21:46.353 --> 00:21:53.842
So I have to work my staccato note in order to try to play as a plucked instrument.

00:21:54.178 --> 00:22:12.303
So that's my first challenge to play the choro, to understand where I need to use the staccato to emphasize the attack in order to make the style, the genre, the choro's genre be

00:22:12.883 --> 00:22:14.726
obvious for those who are listening.

00:22:15.041 --> 00:22:17.926
And then the flute is another commonly used instrument.

00:22:17.946 --> 00:22:22.494
So legato is what you've learned from the flute and applying that to the chromatic.

00:22:22.615 --> 00:22:24.137
Exactly.

00:22:24.317 --> 00:22:27.222
So how do you try and play your best legato on the chromatic?

00:22:27.544 --> 00:22:34.779
I like to use the C and the F on the chromatic in a way that I can't connect the notes.

00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:46.759
So for example, if I have a passage that passed through, let's say, A, B flat and C, let's say that we are in the first octave of 48 chromatic, okay?

00:22:47.038 --> 00:23:02.960
So I would use in that case to create the legato, I would use the C note in the fourth hole drop with the button so that I could connect the B flat with the C.

00:23:03.260 --> 00:23:12.259
So I use the C, I use the F in different positions so that I could have a more connected sound in our harmonica.

00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:23.182
And the clarinet, the one thing you say about the clarinet is it's got a nice soft timbre and so you try and have a nice kind of open mouth playing the chromatic to create that beautiful tone of the clarinet.

00:23:23.394 --> 00:23:33.566
Exactly, because in a matter of fact, when I say bandolim, it's not only the instrument, but I'm talking about the bandelonist in Brazil that created the choro.

00:23:33.625 --> 00:23:40.554
So when I think about bandolim, I'm thinking about Jacob do Bandolim, who was a great bandolim player, the major one.

00:23:40.954 --> 00:23:44.719
When I talk about clarinet, I'm thinking about Abel Ferreira.

00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:47.962
I am just fascinated by his sound.

00:23:59.586 --> 00:24:04.672
Abel Ferreira used to play a very soft clarinet.

00:24:04.853 --> 00:24:10.420
Timbre of the wood, the way he put the air on the notes are just beautiful.

00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:14.805
So that's what I try to emulate in the harmonica.

00:24:15.506 --> 00:24:20.211
Not only the instrument, but maybe most of all, those artists

00:24:20.471 --> 00:24:21.933
who use that instrument.

00:24:22.178 --> 00:24:25.560
And then accordion, another common instrument in choral music.

00:24:25.621 --> 00:24:30.664
So this is somewhere you try to play the chord and the melody together as an accordion does.

00:24:30.744 --> 00:24:34.709
So are you playing chords and single notes then on the chromatic to do that?

00:24:35.088 --> 00:24:42.115
Yes, because the harmonica is the only wind instrument I know that could make some chords, isn't it?

00:24:42.536 --> 00:24:45.678
That could play more than one note at the same time.

00:24:45.718 --> 00:25:16.858
So sometimes I try to emulate that from the accordion and actually because we had already some great accordionist here in Brazil, so sometimes I like to play some chords, mostly when we are playing the same tune with several solists, and there is another instrument who are playing the main melody, and I come to the basses and try to put some chords, you see, to make the accompaniment of my colleagues.

00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:20.604
So that produces a very, very interesting effect.

00:25:24.258 --> 00:25:39.325
You use a standard tune chromatic for this, do you?

00:25:39.986 --> 00:25:40.267
Yeah.

00:25:40.507 --> 00:25:47.138
Nowadays, I use 56 voices with 14 holes, isn't it?

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:48.541
I use the Sidious voice.

00:25:48.673 --> 00:25:51.856
series from suzuki and it's a

00:25:52.057 --> 00:26:01.267
wonderful instrument but there's quite a limitation on the chords you can play obviously you can play two note chords on the chromatic is that is that what you're doing mostly playing two note chords

00:26:01.748 --> 00:26:12.740
well for obvious reasons it's not possible to harmonize anything of course i got to choose some tunes where these are available these are possible

00:26:13.299 --> 00:26:13.380
yeah

00:26:13.441 --> 00:26:19.230
but when i really can find the solutions the fact is pretty good.

00:26:19.732 --> 00:26:29.356
One thing that I love to do, for example, is to create harmonica solos when I play the melody and the chords at the same time.

00:26:30.077 --> 00:26:34.528
That's something I really enjoy to do, some harmonica solos.

00:26:50.657 --> 00:26:53.221
Actually, I have a whole concert of it.

00:26:53.962 --> 00:26:57.388
I went to France one time to perform this concert.

00:26:57.788 --> 00:27:00.713
It produces a very beautiful effect as well.

00:27:01.214 --> 00:27:01.595
So great.

00:27:01.634 --> 00:27:05.141
So let's get on then to your recording career and what you've recorded on the show.

00:27:05.181 --> 00:27:07.964
Obviously, you've drawn these influences from the other instruments.

00:27:07.984 --> 00:27:09.928
Your first group was a trio, is it?

00:27:10.189 --> 00:27:12.432
We call it Um Trio Viralata.

00:27:12.972 --> 00:27:16.417
So your first album with them was a live album recorded in 2003.

00:27:16.438 --> 00:27:18.781
Um Trio Viralata

00:27:19.137 --> 00:27:22.001
We

00:27:28.653 --> 00:27:29.473
have two albums.

00:27:29.815 --> 00:27:34.060
Both of them are live concerts that eventually become CDs.

00:27:34.842 --> 00:27:37.486
And the first one was recorded here in Brazil.

00:27:37.946 --> 00:27:42.354
And the second one was recorded in France in 2006.

00:27:48.801 --> 00:27:51.998
Thank you.

00:27:58.210 --> 00:28:02.575
And it was a very important work for me.

00:28:02.835 --> 00:28:08.582
We worked on that arrangement for years until we finally recorded them.

00:28:08.882 --> 00:28:13.747
And with this group, I went 10 times to Europe to make some tours.

00:28:14.107 --> 00:28:17.351
And it was a very, very important job for me.

00:28:17.371 --> 00:28:18.772
A very, very important work.

00:28:18.833 --> 00:28:19.874
I'm very proud of it.

00:28:20.214 --> 00:28:22.136
And how did you get these tours in Europe?

00:28:22.336 --> 00:28:23.178
How did they come about?

00:28:23.617 --> 00:28:26.009
Basically, the guitar player of

00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:34.361
this group, who was on vacations in France, And he is a great acoustic guitar player.

00:28:34.402 --> 00:28:44.529
He was passing through a city, to a village in France, where a masterclass of guitar was taking place.

00:28:45.151 --> 00:28:46.912
So he eventually took part of it.

00:28:46.932 --> 00:28:57.821
And the teacher, a French guy called Roger Eon, a great, great guitar player, he was really astonished with his technique, with his talent.

00:28:58.201 --> 00:29:01.965
So he invited him to go back to France only to play with him.

00:29:03.007 --> 00:29:03.748
So he did it.

00:29:03.768 --> 00:29:09.855
And the success was so huge that he was invited to come the next year.

00:29:09.894 --> 00:29:15.701
So he decided to invite me and Marcelo Costa, the percussionist.

00:29:15.782 --> 00:29:20.028
So that's how we started to tour mostly in France.

00:29:21.169 --> 00:29:25.374
And we created the trio exactly for this project.

00:29:25.473 --> 00:29:36.953
first tour and so we started to perform every year every year we got lots of invitations to come to europe to perform and we repeated that

00:29:37.054 --> 00:29:46.711
for 10 years i mean this is partly the reason that you know brazilian music is so popular all around the world right i guess you find that with when you you know you traveled across to europe yeah

00:29:47.211 --> 00:29:56.002
yeah i may say that The Brazilian music is very communicative because we always have lots of pieces, lots of songs.

00:29:56.103 --> 00:30:01.710
They are really, really joyful, are really optimistic music, isn't it?

00:30:02.150 --> 00:30:06.895
And for you from Europe, who has a different sense of rhythm, Brazilian

00:30:06.915 --> 00:30:08.857
music could be really interesting.

00:30:09.058 --> 00:30:14.265
And of course, the great Toots Tillmans did an album called The Brazil Project, as well as, I think, another album or two.

00:30:25.377 --> 00:30:26.346
Was that an influence on you?

00:30:26.587 --> 00:30:28.382
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

00:30:28.423 --> 00:30:33.031
You see, I was already playing there when Toots appeared in my life.

00:30:33.511 --> 00:30:53.571
I was already thinking about being a professional, but I remember I went to his concert, I believe it was 1989, 1990, and I don't remember the year, but I went to the concert of when he released the first volume of the Brazil project.

00:30:53.991 --> 00:30:58.175
It was one of the best shows, the best concerts of my life.

00:30:58.576 --> 00:30:59.917
And the way he put...

00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:04.917
His harmonica into Brazilian music was so beautiful, so beautiful.

00:31:04.938 --> 00:31:06.921
I just love this project.

00:31:07.362 --> 00:31:07.962
I love both

00:31:07.982 --> 00:31:08.463
albums.

00:31:09.384 --> 00:31:09.645
Yeah.

00:31:09.746 --> 00:31:15.154
And then yourself, you played with another, well, you're playing on another album, Chiquinha em Revista.

00:31:15.635 --> 00:31:16.657
Is that with a different band?

00:31:17.218 --> 00:31:23.392
Yeah, well, of course, I'm a professional harmonica player, so I have lots of groups, lots of participations.

00:31:23.451 --> 00:31:26.298
I have more than 100 recordings.

00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:33.375
But Chiquinha in Revista was a tribute to a great piano player called Chiquinha Gonzaga.

00:31:45.153 --> 00:31:50.592
And it was produced by a great piano player called Anna Fridman.

00:31:50.632 --> 00:31:55.387
And I've been playing with her for, I don't know, 20 years now.

00:31:55.407 --> 00:31:56.732
We have released...

00:31:57.185 --> 00:32:01.028
something about six albums together with her group.

00:32:01.309 --> 00:32:02.289
I'm part of her group.

00:32:03.191 --> 00:32:11.458
And this album is a tribute to Chiquinha Gonzaga, who was a pioneer in the showroom music in Brazil.

00:32:12.259 --> 00:32:15.342
And she was a woman much ahead of her time.

00:32:15.382 --> 00:32:28.294
She was really important, not only for building the Brazilian music, but also to create the Brazilian movement for the rights of women here in Brazil.

00:32:28.713 --> 00:32:32.799
To end this slavery here in Brazil, he also took part of this fight.

00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:38.867
So she was a very, very important woman in the history of my country.

00:32:39.449 --> 00:32:41.371
And great to hear that you get lots of work.

00:32:41.392 --> 00:32:46.397
So, you know, what is the scene like for a choral harmonica player in Brazil?

00:32:46.499 --> 00:32:48.000
Are you plenty busy?

00:32:49.301 --> 00:32:49.903
Oh, yeah.

00:32:50.844 --> 00:32:54.922
I live from performing concerts, show the concert most of all.

00:32:55.402 --> 00:33:05.375
Sometimes it could be really busy, sometimes less busy, but after the pandemic, we are still warming our economy here in Brazil.

00:33:05.394 --> 00:33:13.665
So little by little, we are just going back to the place where we were before the pandemic.

00:33:14.086 --> 00:33:19.953
And are there many other choral chromatic harmonica players that you have to compete with, or are you the man in Brazil?

00:33:20.450 --> 00:33:21.912
No, no, not at

00:33:22.051 --> 00:33:22.172
all.

00:33:22.593 --> 00:33:26.538
We have lots of great harmonica players here in Brazil playing choro.

00:33:26.837 --> 00:33:37.772
The point is that until myself, until I dedicated myself to play the choro, the older harmonica players didn't want to do so.

00:33:37.813 --> 00:33:45.722
They were more concerned about playing bossa nova and playing samba and playing some different styles.

00:33:46.223 --> 00:33:51.214
So I am the first one who have dedicated his career to this genre.

00:33:51.454 --> 00:33:54.544
But we definitely have wonderful players here.

00:33:54.604 --> 00:34:00.259
For example, we have Pablo Fagundes from Brasilia, who's a great choro player.

00:34:00.318 --> 00:34:02.023
He knows everything about choro.

00:34:13.090 --> 00:34:17.153
We have Rio Duora, who's a master, a master.

00:34:17.173 --> 00:34:25.320
He recorded lots of choros from Hermeto Pascoal, for example, and who are really difficult to play.

00:34:25.561 --> 00:34:29.463
We also have Gabriel Grossi, Rodrigo Weisinger.

00:34:29.684 --> 00:34:35.268
We have lots of great harmonica players playing choro here in Brazil nowadays.

00:34:36.010 --> 00:34:41.054
If you were to see a choro group in Brazil, what were the chances of there being a harmonica player?

00:34:41.193 --> 00:34:44.657
Has it become quite a standard instrument or is it still a little unusual?

00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:47.340
No, not that far.

00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:48.461
No.

00:34:48.802 --> 00:34:52.146
Not by now, but it's pretty much common, you see.

00:34:52.166 --> 00:34:57.652
So if you are in Sao Paulo, you could hear eventually some harmonic enxodo.

00:34:57.972 --> 00:35:02.418
If you are in Rio de Janeiro, you can eventually hear some harmonic enxodo.

00:35:02.438 --> 00:35:08.976
If you are in Brasilia, you can eventually hear some harmonica and choro.

00:35:09.438 --> 00:35:13.315
So little by little, we started to occupy some spaces.

00:35:13.376 --> 00:35:15.083
You see, it's not so

00:35:15.224 --> 00:35:16.541
rare nowadays.

00:35:17.063 --> 00:35:17.422
That's great.

00:35:17.443 --> 00:35:24.009
Well, if anyone listening, if they fancy a holiday to Brazil to check out some choro music and hear some harmonica, that'd be fantastic too.

00:35:24.028 --> 00:35:24.329
Yeah.

00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:32.135
Okay, then going back through to your recordings, as you say, you play with lots of different people and you've got lots of recordings in your belt.

00:35:32.155 --> 00:35:33.016
So I've got another one here.

00:35:33.056 --> 00:35:34.617
Again, help me with the pronunciation.

00:35:34.657 --> 00:35:37.800
So, yeah,

00:35:38.521 --> 00:35:41.384
this is the second album from my group.

00:35:41.764 --> 00:35:44.987
I have a choro group which is called Chorando As Pitangas.

00:35:45.266 --> 00:35:50.596
We have a This is my main work nowadays.

00:35:50.635 --> 00:35:53.239
We have already released three albums.

00:35:53.780 --> 00:35:56.865
The last one is from the last year.

00:35:56.885 --> 00:36:00.271
It's an album that we released in 2022.

00:36:11.938 --> 00:36:15.320
We have been playing for more than 20 years now.

00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:19.804
We perform, I don't know, two, three, four times every month.

00:36:20.304 --> 00:36:31.255
And Um Passeio na Benedito Calixto was a tribute that we made for a certain place here in São Paulo called Praça Benedito Calixto, which is a street market.

00:36:31.775 --> 00:36:37.539
And in the middle of this place, we had a space dedicated for choro.

00:36:38.081 --> 00:36:46.728
So for seven years, I performed there every every Saturday from four hours of choro, straight.

00:36:47.128 --> 00:36:54.554
It was really a big school to me because we had to perform for four hours playing choro.

00:36:54.635 --> 00:36:57.878
It was exhausting and it was exciting.

00:36:57.978 --> 00:36:59.099
It was challenging.

00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:00.800
It was just great.

00:37:01.021 --> 00:37:06.324
When we recorded the second album, I proposed to the group to make a tribute for them.

00:37:06.965 --> 00:37:11.349
So I composed a tune called O Passeio na Benedita Calisto.

00:37:25.057 --> 00:37:29.123
and recorded this album, an album that I like a lot.

00:37:29.844 --> 00:37:31.907
Yeah, some beautiful playing on there.

00:37:31.967 --> 00:37:42.400
And then on the second album with this group, you do a song called, again, help me with pronunciation, called Xagai, which is where you're playing five different harmonicas all yourself.

00:37:42.501 --> 00:37:43.902
Oh yeah, this is

00:37:43.942 --> 00:37:45.184
the first album, actually.

00:37:45.264 --> 00:37:46.545
This is our first album.

00:37:46.565 --> 00:37:49.889
It's called Only Vitor Lopes and Xoranas Pitangas.

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This is the opening piece.

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This is something that I really enjoy.

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Vitor Lopes interview

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