Oct. 18, 2020

Sugar Blue interview

Sugar Blue interview
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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Blues Harmonica Chromatic Blues Jazz Diatonic

Sugar Blue has certainly pushed the boundaries of the harmonica, with his rapid fire licks, lots of high end runs and gorgeous tone. It was perhaps his early jazz influences that shaped his distinctive sound, although there is no doubt that he has paid homage to the harmonica greats, spending time with some of the classic players. 
As well as numerous solo albums, Sugar has recorded with many illustrious names, including the Rolling Stones, Willie Dixon and Frank Zappa, to name but a few. 
He has two Grammy awards and has recently released his new album, Colors.


Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Links:
Sugar Blue's website:
https://www.sugar-blue.com/

YouTube:

Pontiac from Crossroads album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo_4V2oQkJQ

From Paris to Chicago album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erR3ykdWjUs&list=PLKy7ZszBRofeRhtxfOq9AnNJJE-oEkPzR

With Louisiana Red:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNJvfPF_S1w

Willie Dixon Hidden Charms album: Blues You Can’t Lose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_PudHiZWnI&list=PLvxWibFr0wiK2EYwsSfV3C2bg_i5GDNvL

Sugar Blue Unplugged:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtNgTBZx2HY


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:45 - Where the Sugar Blue stage name came from

02:26 - Raised in Harlem, New York

02:49 - Wanted to be a singer when young

03:02 - Started playing various instruments including saxophone and violin

03:29 - Godmother gave Sugar his first harmonica

03:35 - What started Sugar out singing

05:06 - Billie Holiday held Sugar when he was a baby

06:17 - Sugar was a fan of jazz when young

07:22 - Worked on emulating saxophone & violin players early on

08:05 - Early harmonica influences included Stevie Wonder and Bob Dylan

08:36 - Little Walter, Sonny Boy II and Big Walter were big influences

09:26 - Spent some time with Big Walter, Junior Wells and James Cotton

11:26 - First recording was with Victoria Spivey

12:05 - Recorded with Brownie McGhee

13:31 - Sugar didn’t try to play like Sonny Terry

14:15 - Toured with Louisiana Red

14:58 - Moved to Paris, busking in the Metro

16:53 - Met and started playing with the Rolling Stones

18:24 - Playing with Rolling Stones helped raised Sugar’s profile

18:42 - Played some harp with Mick Jagger

20:18 - Debut solo album: Crossroads

21:27 - From Paris to Chicago album

21:37 - Moved back to Chicago and sat in with Junior Wells

22:14 - Won Grammy for track on Blues Explosion album recorded at Montreux Blues Festival

23:26 - Played with Willie Dixon Chicago All Stars band, winning another Grammy

24:41 - Blue Blazes album, including own version of Miss You song

26:19 - In Your Eyes album

27:17 - Sugar has released various live albums

28:16 - Code Blue album and tribute to the great Chicago players

30:15 - Chromatic harmonica

31:57 - Ramblin’ song on Threshold album where Sugar plays two harps

32:31 - Interview on Threshold album

33:21 - Raw Sugar live album, and holding note for a long time

34:26 - Colors album, and effects on the And The Devil Too song

36:13 - Day Tripper song on Colors album

37:25 - Some of the great musicians Sugar has played with, including Frank Zappa

38:21 - Three Chicago Music Awards

38:39 - Played at Robert Johnson’s 100th birthday concert at Apollo Theatre

39:21 - UK concerts with Giles Robson

40:02 - Recorded on Angel Heart soundtrack starring Robert De Niro

40:31 - Played with Fats Domino, Ray Charles and Jerry Lewis

41:15 - Recorded with Bob Dylan

41:48 - Sugar’s playing style

44:33 - The amazing acoustic tone of Big Walter

45:43 - Listening to jazz players to learn the blues

46:27 - 10 minute question

46:59 - Sugar’s iconic harmonica belt

47:54 - Sugar’s harmonica’s of choice

50:02 - Favourite key of diatonic

50:23 - Different tunings

50:42 - What positions does Sugar play

51:00 - Overblows

51:21 - Embouchre

51:36 - Amplifiers

52:05 - Mics

52:32 - Effects pedals

53:33 - Future plans

WEBVTT

00:00:00.002 --> 00:00:01.864
Sugar Blue joins me on episode 25.

00:00:02.263 --> 00:00:08.028
First off, please excuse the background noise on Sugar's side, but it's a great interview nonetheless.

00:00:08.650 --> 00:00:15.054
Sugar Blue has pushed the boundaries of the harmonica, with his rapid-fire licks, lots of high-end runs and gorgeous tone.

00:00:15.515 --> 00:00:25.004
It was perhaps his early jazz influences that shaped his distinctive sound, although he has certainly paid homage to the harmonica greats, spending time with some of the classic players.

00:00:25.783 --> 00:00:33.996
As well as numerous solo albums, Sugar has recorded with many illustrious names, including the Rolling Stones, Willie Dixon and Frank Zappa.

00:00:34.377 --> 00:00:38.326
He has two Grammy Awards and has recently released his new album, Colors.

00:00:39.387 --> 00:00:46.061
A word to my sponsor again, thanks to the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more, designed for harmonica.

00:00:46.503 --> 00:00:49.670
Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf.

00:01:31.585 --> 00:01:33.691
Hello, Sugar Blue, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:34.311 --> 00:01:35.093
Oh, hello, Neil.

00:01:35.114 --> 00:01:35.495
How are you?

00:01:35.534 --> 00:01:36.597
I'm great, thank you.

00:01:36.617 --> 00:01:38.542
Thanks so much for joining me today and taking the time.

00:01:38.561 --> 00:01:39.263
Appreciate it.

00:01:39.343 --> 00:01:44.676
We can start off with your name, Sugar Blue, your real name, James or Jimmy Whitting.

00:01:45.076 --> 00:01:46.941
Where did the name Sugar Blue come from?

00:01:47.298 --> 00:01:49.683
Well, there was an old track.

00:01:50.525 --> 00:01:54.373
Somebody threw a box of 78 records out of a window.

00:01:54.414 --> 00:01:56.879
And in it, there was a box.

00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:03.293
There was a record by Sidney Bechet with a tune called the Sugar Blues on it.

00:02:04.075 --> 00:02:06.680
And all of the records broke except that one.

00:02:07.457 --> 00:02:08.840
And I said, okay.

00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:15.450
I had been looking for a name for a while, you know, like there was Sonny Boy Williamson, Muddy Waters, Junior Wells.

00:02:15.991 --> 00:02:18.936
And I had been looking for a name and I said, well, this is it.

00:02:20.177 --> 00:02:21.038
Serendipity.

00:02:22.602 --> 00:02:23.323
Yeah, that's a good name.

00:02:23.383 --> 00:02:24.264
Works well, as you say.

00:02:24.344 --> 00:02:26.007
Sugar Blue works very well.

00:02:26.067 --> 00:02:31.575
So you were raised in Harlem in New York and your mother was a singer and dancer at the Apollo Theater.

00:02:31.616 --> 00:02:35.162
So you definitely had that sort of background in the entertainment industry.

00:02:35.490 --> 00:02:42.211
Yeah, man, you know, I grew up around musicians and music from the time that I can remember.

00:02:42.492 --> 00:02:42.693
Yeah.

00:02:42.753 --> 00:02:45.102
And so did you start performing at an early age?

00:02:45.181 --> 00:02:48.712
And, you know, what sort of involvement did you have, you know, the sort of entertainers back then?

00:02:49.026 --> 00:02:52.549
No, well, I wanted to be a singer from the time that I could remember.

00:02:52.669 --> 00:02:56.051
But my mother said I sounded like a horse.

00:02:57.212 --> 00:02:58.854
She said, no, you'll never sing.

00:02:58.875 --> 00:03:01.276
And so I believed her for a while.

00:03:01.317 --> 00:03:06.881
I didn't really start trying to play music until I was about 12 or 13 years old.

00:03:07.322 --> 00:03:12.445
I got a saxophone when I was in grade school and I started trying to play that.

00:03:12.866 --> 00:03:15.449
Then there was a violin and a flute.

00:03:15.848 --> 00:03:18.991
I played the sax for a while and I really got into it.

00:03:18.991 --> 00:03:32.586
it but my mom was like oh no you can't practice that thing in the house so that was the end of the saxophone and I was heartbroken and my godmother bought me a harmonica

00:03:33.147 --> 00:03:43.156
and we've been friends ever since course you are a singer now and have been for quite some time so did you carry on singing then or did you return back to that when you got a bit older

00:03:43.856 --> 00:04:09.723
I got into the harmonica and I played I played the harmonica I didn't sing I didn't sing for years actually I didn't sing until I got into a band I had a gig for General Electric and we had an after work band and nobody would sing and so everybody said well you're I was like, okay, well, why not?

00:04:10.484 --> 00:04:13.348
Well, now, darling, please come home

00:04:15.532 --> 00:04:24.968
I'm all alone and I don't know why I know she cried

00:04:25.870 --> 00:04:30.237
And I felt so bad inside And I know I lied

00:04:36.449 --> 00:04:37.802
We wrote two songs.

00:04:38.367 --> 00:04:39.254
I'm so glad.

00:04:39.810 --> 00:04:49.177
And we did those two songs for about a half an hour before the club owner tossed us out on our ears.

00:04:49.658 --> 00:04:51.319
But that was the beginning of my singing.

00:04:52.141 --> 00:04:52.581
Yeah, and great.

00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:53.641
And it's very effective too.

00:04:53.661 --> 00:04:55.362
You know, you've got quite a high voice, hasn't it?

00:04:55.384 --> 00:04:58.266
It really complements the harmonica playing really well, I think.

00:04:58.305 --> 00:05:00.648
So yeah, a good move for you to do the singing.

00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:06.353
So again, as you started out in your early life, you're around your mother and all the performers.

00:05:06.552 --> 00:05:08.894
I believe you met Billie Holiday during this time.

00:05:09.154 --> 00:05:11.076
Billie was a good friend of my mom's.

00:05:11.557 --> 00:05:16.863
When I was born, Billy had a gig at the Apollo Theater, and she stopped by the house.

00:05:17.363 --> 00:05:19.867
According to my mother, okay, see, I was a baby.

00:05:19.906 --> 00:05:21.728
I was an infant at this time.

00:05:23.189 --> 00:05:34.002
She told me that Billy was wearing her beautiful silk dress that she was going to perform in, and she wanted to hold the baby.

00:05:34.482 --> 00:05:36.785
And I had just finished having my pablum.

00:05:37.545 --> 00:05:49.807
And so she held me, and she patted me on the back and of course I deposited my pablum on her dress and she normally wore her gardenias, corsage, in her hair.

00:05:49.848 --> 00:05:52.392
There's a photo of her with it.

00:05:53.233 --> 00:05:59.326
She's wearing it above her left breast and that's where I deposited the pablum.

00:05:59.425 --> 00:05:59.846
Brilliant.

00:06:00.007 --> 00:06:04.382
Well, you must have been destined for great things after doing that to Billie Holiday.

00:06:04.403 --> 00:06:08.375
Hey, man, you know, I have no memory of it.

00:06:08.476 --> 00:06:10.122
I only know what my mom told me.

00:06:11.298 --> 00:06:14.761
So obviously Billie Holiday is a very famous female jazz singer.

00:06:14.781 --> 00:06:17.002
So you were interested in jazz early on, weren't you?

00:06:17.023 --> 00:06:20.245
I believe Lester Young was one of your early favorites.

00:06:20.565 --> 00:06:21.466
Oh, yeah, man.

00:06:21.487 --> 00:06:21.947
Are you kidding?

00:06:22.507 --> 00:06:31.875
I remember the first time that I really remember being in love with the music was a song called PC Blues.

00:06:32.336 --> 00:06:33.197
I bugged my mom.

00:06:33.297 --> 00:06:34.077
Mom, what is that?

00:06:34.137 --> 00:06:34.637
What is that?

00:06:34.697 --> 00:06:35.439
What is she saying?

00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:36.500
It's the blues, boy.

00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:37.500
Now leave me alone.

00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:38.482
She was trying to cook.

00:06:39.983 --> 00:06:41.264
And I fell in love with the blues.

00:06:41.264 --> 00:06:44.887
You know, the big band kind of jazzy kind of blues.

00:06:44.908 --> 00:06:51.576
You know, I didn't get into Chicago, Chicago blues and Delta blues for years.

00:06:51.675 --> 00:06:53.298
You know, I didn't know about that stuff.

00:06:53.999 --> 00:06:55.821
I just knew about the big band stuff.

00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:57.944
You know, Duke Ellington, Count Basie.

00:07:17.122 --> 00:07:21.959
So does that mean when you were starting out in harmonica, you were trying to emulate saxophone players?

00:07:22.521 --> 00:07:25.732
Oh, I was trying to emulate saxophone players.

00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:29.853
I was also trying to emulate violin players.

00:07:31.153 --> 00:07:41.442
And we used to watch the cowboy shows on television, and I would play along with those because there was a lot of harmonica in that stuff.

00:07:41.742 --> 00:07:48.288
I had an ear for jazz since I was little because there was so much of it being played around me.

00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:57.262
When I did get into Chicago blues and Delta blues, I just took what I had been hearing with me into that music.

00:07:57.665 --> 00:08:04.992
And, you know, probably influenced your style, as we'll get on to shortly, because you probably got quite a unique sound as a harmonica player.

00:08:05.072 --> 00:08:08.755
As you said, though, you did get into, you know, obviously playing along with the blues greats.

00:08:09.435 --> 00:08:15.721
But first of all, I think you were interested in Stevie Wonder and even Bob Dylan you were playing along to as your sort of first harmonica influence.

00:08:15.901 --> 00:08:16.622
Oh, yeah, man.

00:08:16.862 --> 00:08:24.069
You know, Steve, I mean, well, you know, it's like, that's the kind of stuff that you heard on the radio, you know.

00:08:24.329 --> 00:08:29.216
And I was very much into practically anybody that was playing the harmonica.

00:08:30.321 --> 00:08:35.476
There's no place to learn it except on records and on the radio.

00:08:36.033 --> 00:08:40.599
And of course, then you got into the blues greats Little Walter and Sonny Boy Williams in the second.

00:08:40.619 --> 00:08:46.265
So any particular songs you remember from back then that really grabbed you about playing the Chicago blues styles?

00:08:46.927 --> 00:08:53.894
Oh, well, I mean, Juke, of course, and Help Me, and Big Walter, Hard-Hearted Woman.

00:08:54.875 --> 00:08:56.317
I still love that tune.

00:08:59.922 --> 00:09:00.062
Oh, yeah.

00:09:11.265 --> 00:09:25.888
I like the fluid guys, you know, the cats that play with a very fluid kind of sound, you know what I'm saying?

00:09:26.388 --> 00:09:32.658
And then I think you spent some time, didn't you, with some of the greats, you know, with Big Walter, Junior Wells and James Cotton.

00:09:32.937 --> 00:09:35.361
Did you study with those guys or you hung out with them and played with them?

00:09:35.714 --> 00:09:39.356
I went to the gigs, and I hung out with them.

00:09:39.758 --> 00:09:41.438
I listened to them play.

00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:42.759
I listened to them talk.

00:09:43.260 --> 00:09:44.922
I ate and drank with them.

00:09:44.942 --> 00:09:49.285
I mean, you know, for me, that was Boone's University, man.

00:09:49.905 --> 00:09:50.206
You know?

00:09:50.427 --> 00:09:50.626
Yeah.

00:09:51.006 --> 00:09:59.073
I remember early in my musical life, I was playing with a guy named Larry Johnson.

00:09:59.475 --> 00:10:10.946
And Larry Johnson, he was a great blues guitar player and vocalist in Piedmont style He told me, you know, listening to the records is great, man, but you've got to live this music.

00:10:10.985 --> 00:10:12.889
You've got to know the people that played it.

00:10:13.288 --> 00:10:19.417
You've got to try and sit down, talk and commiserate with these people or otherwise you'll never really get it.

00:10:19.596 --> 00:10:27.886
You know, it's like you can listen to the records, but there's something that you're going to miss if you don't have the association with the people that it came from.

00:10:28.408 --> 00:10:30.210
And I think he was very right about that.

00:10:30.594 --> 00:10:35.658
Yeah, so were those guys, you know, some of the guys we mentioned there, Junior Wells, were they very welcoming then?

00:10:35.677 --> 00:10:36.339
You were quite happy.

00:10:36.359 --> 00:10:39.160
I presume you were quite a young guy then, you know, hanging out with them.

00:10:39.542 --> 00:10:40.722
Was there a few people doing that?

00:10:41.462 --> 00:10:45.927
Well, I was always right up front under their eyes, you know.

00:10:45.947 --> 00:10:56.616
It was like at some point it was, you know, and I would introduce myself and hang out and listen and be very studious about the whole thing.

00:10:56.976 --> 00:11:13.474
And the old-timers, man, they noticed that kind of And they appreciate it because there were very few young cats that were really trying to take lessons, trying to understand, trying to appreciate and celebrate their music.

00:11:13.754 --> 00:11:15.296
And so they appreciated that.

00:11:15.456 --> 00:11:15.895
Fantastic.

00:11:15.916 --> 00:11:17.238
Yeah, so a great place to learn.

00:11:17.278 --> 00:11:21.802
So if we move on a bit to your recording career now, so a great long recording career you've had.

00:11:21.923 --> 00:11:25.826
So I think you made your first recording, is it right, with Brownie McGee in 1975?

00:11:26.508 --> 00:11:30.511
Actually, the first recording I ever did was with Victoria Smith.

00:11:30.511 --> 00:11:35.417
And that was, oh, 1970, I don't know, 73, 74.

00:11:35.557 --> 00:11:44.726
Yeah, because Victoria heard us busking on the street in the West Village in New York City, and she said, hey, I want to record you.

00:11:45.187 --> 00:11:46.828
And I was like, okay, why not?

00:11:48.071 --> 00:11:48.812
And she was great.

00:11:48.892 --> 00:11:52.475
She actually became our blues fairy godmother.

00:11:52.495 --> 00:11:55.177
And do you know what recording that was with Victoria Spivey?

00:11:55.658 --> 00:11:57.000
Well, it's a track

00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:58.562
that's on the label.

00:11:59.001 --> 00:12:02.525
It's called Sugar Really Has the blues on Spivy Records.

00:12:03.006 --> 00:12:07.130
Brilliant yeah so so yeah so you recorded with Victoria but then you did record with Brownie McGee in 1975.

00:12:07.150 --> 00:12:07.932
Yeah I

00:12:08.552 --> 00:12:10.995
recorded with Brownie I recorded with

00:12:11.095 --> 00:12:13.577
Louisiana Red, Johnny Shines.

00:12:14.278 --> 00:12:18.403
Yeah so when you recorded with Brownie were you standing in for Sonny Terry at that point?

00:12:18.964 --> 00:12:35.260
Uh yes actually Sonny Terry had passed away and I was always at the concerts to see Sonny Terry and Brownie and I was always there you know studying the music and I Brownie let me sit in at some point, and he liked the way I played.

00:12:35.961 --> 00:12:44.090
And so when Sonny passed and he was in the studio, he got in touch with me, and the rest is music history, you know.

00:12:44.370 --> 00:12:52.538
We recorded a song called On a Rainy Day, which is one of Brownie's, for me, one of Brownie's most beautiful songs.

00:12:52.558 --> 00:12:57.644
¶¶¶¶

00:13:00.354 --> 00:13:06.126
I had one small, one small cup of tea.

00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:08.051
You know,

00:13:08.071 --> 00:13:10.657
she just walked out of my life.

00:13:13.101 --> 00:13:14.645
Left those old old town dirty.

00:13:16.001 --> 00:13:31.136
I mean, you know, your style is quite different than Sonny Terry's, certainly later, but listening to some of your earlier recordings, you mentioned playing with Johnny Shines, you know, you did have, you know, more, you know, acoustic-y, is that a style you developed earlier on, do you think, listening to and playing along with Sonny Terry?

00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:35.397
Well, I really didn't have much of a Sonny Terry sound.

00:13:35.657 --> 00:13:41.908
I mean, I loved what he did, but I didn't think that anybody could really do that stuff like Sonny could.

00:13:41.927 --> 00:13:45.453
And so I didn't really try and do that.

00:13:45.534 --> 00:13:49.701
I was looking for a more lyrical way of playing the harmonica than that.

00:13:49.985 --> 00:13:55.250
Yeah, and certainly, you know, listening to some of your early recordings, your style is in there early on, isn't it?

00:13:55.530 --> 00:14:00.335
We'll talk about your style a little bit more later, but that is in quite early, isn't it?

00:14:00.355 --> 00:14:03.697
So is that a style you developed quite early on and stuck with?

00:14:04.018 --> 00:14:04.719
Oh yeah, man.

00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:08.241
I used to sit around and listen to B.B.

00:14:08.282 --> 00:14:09.001
King, right?

00:14:09.243 --> 00:14:11.404
And try to imitate what he was doing.

00:14:11.544 --> 00:14:15.207
He's such a lyrical and melodic player, you

00:14:15.227 --> 00:14:15.628
know?

00:14:15.648 --> 00:14:26.899
And you mentioned Louisiana Red there, so you toured with Louisiana Red for a few years in the late 70s uh you know you toured around i know you came to london and played in the in the hundred club in london so you toured around with him for a few years

00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:45.597
oh yeah that was we had some wild times back then yes indeedy the 1970s were the were were really great they were really great i miss i miss old red he was he was great so

00:14:55.874 --> 00:14:56.381
Thank you.

00:14:58.754 --> 00:15:05.320
And then I think in 1977, you moved to Paris, sort of after talking to Memphis Slim, who was based over in Europe as well.

00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.140
So you came over to Europe.

00:15:07.442 --> 00:15:14.888
Yeah, I had met Slim at a place called Art Deliverance Village Gate in the West Village.

00:15:15.248 --> 00:15:16.929
I came in, I sat in with him.

00:15:17.409 --> 00:15:18.591
He liked the way I played.

00:15:18.630 --> 00:15:23.315
And I said, wow, you know, what do you think if I went to Paris and played?

00:15:23.335 --> 00:15:24.917
Do you think I could make it over there?

00:15:24.976 --> 00:15:27.239
He said, well, son, you have to come and see.

00:15:27.538 --> 00:15:28.720
You have to find out for yourself.

00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.426
yourself and so about i don't know about two or three months later i was on a plane man

00:15:35.466 --> 00:15:39.150
excellent and so what was the blues scene like in the in paris around that time

00:15:39.511 --> 00:16:02.996
oh well around that time there was memphis slim that was pretty much it i mean there was there was slim there were a few there were a few uh french guys around playing the blues but when it came down to the true tradition there was memphis slim and i remember uh Champion Jack Dupree came through, and I met and hung out with him.

00:16:03.017 --> 00:16:03.777
I loved it.

00:16:03.797 --> 00:16:05.339
I loved the way he played the blues.

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:06.539
Loved his attitude.

00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:08.341
He was a magic guy, this guy.

00:16:08.582 --> 00:16:11.164
But that was really just about it, you know?

00:16:11.205 --> 00:16:15.710
Now and then, I remember George Harmonica Smith came through.

00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:18.352
He passed through on tour.

00:16:18.373 --> 00:16:22.376
As far as local in Paris, it was Slim.

00:16:22.456 --> 00:16:22.998
That was it.

00:16:23.238 --> 00:16:24.600
Were you playing with Memphis Slim then?

00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:26.020
Is that when you first went to Europe?

00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:28.364
Yeah, well, I played with Slim.

00:16:28.624 --> 00:16:53.149
he didn't really give me any play at all for about a year so i was busking in the subways and on the streets of paris with uh with a girlfriend of mine at the time who played bass and a friend of mine that came over from new york who was playing guitar so we had our little three piece and we were playing through pig nose amplifiers in the metro and uh on the streets of paris

00:16:53.451 --> 00:16:58.216
this is it right this is where mick jagger saw you playing and that's where he first discovered you

00:16:58.495 --> 00:16:59.616
he Yeah, indeed.

00:17:00.918 --> 00:17:04.883
I think Keith had heard me on a record with Louisiana Red.

00:17:05.202 --> 00:17:08.707
And they came by a club that we were playing in called La Vieux Gris.

00:17:08.967 --> 00:17:12.451
That's sort of where I became aware that they knew who I was.

00:17:12.711 --> 00:17:13.092
I don't know.

00:17:13.172 --> 00:17:16.996
They may have seen me somewhere else, but that was when I became aware that they

00:17:17.036 --> 00:17:17.817
knew who I was.

00:17:18.076 --> 00:17:18.958
Well, so fantastic.

00:17:18.998 --> 00:17:24.002
And then you became Rolling Stone's harmonica player for, well, you recorded on three other albums.

00:17:24.063 --> 00:17:28.327
And of course, very famously, the song Miss You, which you play the very...

00:17:28.528 --> 00:17:29.328
Yeah,

00:17:29.689 --> 00:17:34.273
there were a couple of other nice tunes that I really liked.

00:17:34.493 --> 00:17:36.797
Well, the monster hit was Moose You.

00:17:37.217 --> 00:17:41.981
I think I did something, played on Send It To Me or something like that.

00:17:42.383 --> 00:17:58.480
And a blues tune that we sort of came up with together because I was practicing in one of the studios, just doing some chords, and it ended up on the record under the name of Dive In The Hole, which I really liked.

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.824
I really like that tune because there's some really wicked harp playing on there.

00:18:03.184 --> 00:18:04.686
So what was it like then?

00:18:04.727 --> 00:18:06.489
You were touring with Rolling Stones.

00:18:06.628 --> 00:18:09.131
I did a couple of sit-ins with them.

00:18:09.491 --> 00:18:13.936
I guess just blowing some stuff with them.

00:18:14.196 --> 00:18:18.121
Once we did something at Wembley Stadium.

00:18:18.361 --> 00:18:22.986
And then I did some stuff with them in the States in Chicago and around there.

00:18:23.006 --> 00:18:23.946
It was fun.

00:18:24.228 --> 00:18:28.311
And what was really fantastic about it, after I had done that...

00:18:28.432 --> 00:18:37.442
I got the opportunity to do my own record because up until that time, I had been trying to get somebody to record me and nobody would.

00:18:37.682 --> 00:18:41.326
And after I did that, all of a sudden, I was a hot commodity.

00:18:42.186 --> 00:18:46.892
So obviously Mick Jagger is known to play some harmonica, not to your standard, of course.

00:18:46.951 --> 00:18:53.157
So did you ever have a sort of harmonica duet with Mick Jagger on stage or any recordings at all of that?

00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:54.700
No, in the studio.

00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:57.262
We traded back and forth.

00:18:57.442 --> 00:19:19.787
We traded some licks back and forth you know he was he was big time into little walter you know like hey do you know this song by little walter do you know this one do you know that one and you know i was like oh yeah i know that one yeah we play some riffs from that from one of his tunes or and so forth yeah so i mean but we never recorded together no no

00:19:20.307 --> 00:19:31.920
so well brilliant though i mean obviously great that he's a fan of the harmonica and you know got you on and i mean it must be great playing you know with one of the most successful rock bands you know in all time Oh man, you know, it was

00:19:34.241 --> 00:19:45.614
like, I don't know, it was, it was magical, you know, it was like, okay, you know, it's like one day I'm, one day I'm playing on the streets of Paris and the next day I'm in the studio with the Rolling Stones.

00:19:45.714 --> 00:19:47.817
It was like, wow, check me out, mom.

00:19:49.398 --> 00:19:49.759
So great.

00:19:49.778 --> 00:19:50.380
Well, fantastic.

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:51.401
A brilliant thing to do.

00:19:51.721 --> 00:19:52.521
Congrats on that.

00:19:52.561 --> 00:20:04.153
So, so as you say, then that led on to you, you know, you decided, I think they still wanted you to, to play with them, but you, decided to return to the State Centre and to cut your own album and sort of pursue your own solo career then, yeah?

00:20:04.173 --> 00:20:08.138
Oh man, hey, it was like, hey, I wasn't going to be no Rolling Stone, okay?

00:20:08.298 --> 00:20:09.940
So I had to do it on my own.

00:20:11.082 --> 00:20:11.321
Brilliant.

00:20:11.342 --> 00:20:17.407
Well, so quite a brave decision though, you know, having a gig like that and sort of deciding you weren't going to go off on your own.

00:20:17.528 --> 00:20:21.792
So your debut solo album was in 1979, the Crossroads album.

00:20:22.093 --> 00:20:37.092
Yeah, that was my first solo album, yeah, where I got an opportunity to to write songs and record some of the tunes that I really loved by some of the traditional cats.

00:20:37.172 --> 00:20:41.278
Like I covered Sonny Boy Williamson's Pontiac

00:20:41.317 --> 00:20:43.942
Blues.

00:21:02.561 --> 00:21:06.032
And I covered Howlin' Wolves, Who's Been Talkin',

00:21:27.809 --> 00:21:35.016
you and then you did another album a few years later called From Paris to Chicago which obviously had that transition from you moving back to the States.

00:21:35.477 --> 00:21:36.958
You were back in Chicago then.

00:21:37.057 --> 00:21:44.364
Is that when you went back and you started, you performed a little bit with Big Walter and Carrie Bell and James Cotton, some of the guys we talked with earlier on.

00:21:44.483 --> 00:21:46.746
Did you get back and meet with those guys and start playing with them?

00:21:46.987 --> 00:21:50.609
I did more listening to those cats than I did playing with them.

00:21:50.829 --> 00:21:53.752
I remember playing with Junior one night.

00:21:54.192 --> 00:22:07.506
He played a regular Seahawk and I used a three 1965 14 hole and it was really it was really something kind of special i remember that i wish i wish somebody had recorded it it was beautiful

00:22:07.807 --> 00:22:47.576
yeah well it's a shame uh everyone has smartphones now it's a shame it would have been caught wouldn't it but yeah unfortunately back then it was not the same in 1984 you recorded a track which was on the uh i think the the montreux jazz festival festival in switzerland is a another man done gone which is playing a low harp And that album won a Grammy for the best traditional blues.

00:22:47.655 --> 00:22:49.117
So remember that album?

00:22:49.357 --> 00:22:49.857
Oh, yeah, I

00:22:49.958 --> 00:22:50.618
remember that.

00:22:50.638 --> 00:22:53.561
Coco Taylor was on that record.

00:22:53.721 --> 00:22:56.923
Quite a few other Chicago players.

00:22:57.045 --> 00:22:59.686
It was really a special time for me.

00:22:59.906 --> 00:23:01.949
I met Nina Simone there.

00:23:02.348 --> 00:23:04.250
It was just fantastic, man.

00:23:04.611 --> 00:23:06.952
Some of the great jazz players were there.

00:23:07.012 --> 00:23:11.656
I got to hang out and play with them and sit in with Doobie King.

00:23:11.998 --> 00:23:15.441
That was a very special time Yeah,

00:23:16.481 --> 00:23:18.605
and did you receive a Grammy Award?

00:23:18.625 --> 00:23:20.067
Have you still got the Grammy Award for that?

00:23:20.727 --> 00:23:26.714
And

00:23:26.755 --> 00:23:32.501
then in 1988, you played on another Grammy-winning awarded record with Willie Dixon playing on the Hidden Charms album.

00:23:32.762 --> 00:23:36.686
So you toured with the Chicago Blues All-Stars, Willie Dixon's band, for a few years, didn't you?

00:23:36.768 --> 00:23:38.249
And that's an album which came out of that.

00:24:03.938 --> 00:24:04.939
Oh, yeah, man.

00:24:05.098 --> 00:24:11.423
I mean, working with Willie Dixon was maybe one of the greatest, one of the greatest things that ever happened to me.

00:24:11.625 --> 00:24:12.865
Dixon taught me so much.

00:24:13.165 --> 00:24:15.988
He helped me to learn how to write songs.

00:24:16.249 --> 00:24:19.711
I mean, he was a teacher, a mentor, and a friend.

00:24:20.011 --> 00:24:23.214
It was really a great experience getting to work with him.

00:24:23.375 --> 00:24:36.165
Getting to work with him, heck, just getting to sit down and talk to him and listen to him, you know, his experience over more than 40 years or 40 or 50 years in the It was really a very special time.

00:24:36.386 --> 00:24:37.248
Yeah, real legend.

00:24:37.288 --> 00:24:39.769
And of course, wrote a lot of great blues songs, didn't he?

00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:41.231
So yeah, fantastic to play with him.

00:24:41.451 --> 00:24:48.038
In 1994, you released the Blue Blazes album, which is your first album on the famous Alligator blues label,

00:24:48.058 --> 00:24:48.740
yeah?

00:24:48.819 --> 00:24:49.339
Yeah, yeah.

00:24:49.661 --> 00:24:56.627
Actually, it was for a Japanese record company that was distributed by Alligator Records.

00:24:56.949 --> 00:25:05.661
I remember Rico McFarlane, my partner in crime for many, many years, one of the greatest guitar players in the blues music period.

00:25:06.182 --> 00:25:08.528
Talk me into covering Miss You.

00:25:08.548 --> 00:25:09.730
I said, man, come on.

00:25:09.750 --> 00:25:10.954
I don't want to do that.

00:25:10.994 --> 00:25:12.839
He said, yeah, yeah, you got to do that.

00:25:14.262 --> 00:25:16.087
And so we came up with a version of it.

00:25:35.425 --> 00:25:36.487
I had a ball doing that.

00:25:36.507 --> 00:25:37.788
I had a ball doing that.

00:25:38.147 --> 00:25:41.730
So presumably you had to get permission from the Rolling Stones management to do that.

00:25:41.771 --> 00:25:42.412
Was that all good?

00:25:42.531 --> 00:25:43.512
Were they happy to give you that?

00:25:43.833 --> 00:25:45.114
Yeah, there was no problem.

00:25:45.134 --> 00:25:51.259
I mean, come on, you know, every time somebody covers that tune, they get paid, okay?

00:25:52.621 --> 00:25:54.942
You made that song with your riff, let's face it.

00:25:55.103 --> 00:25:57.744
Hey man, I gave it my heart and soul.

00:25:58.125 --> 00:26:00.708
You know, working with them was really quite an experience.

00:26:00.788 --> 00:26:01.848
I had a ball.

00:26:02.169 --> 00:26:07.718
And one of my favorite guys in that band, Gary and now is running with.

00:26:08.057 --> 00:26:09.201
I love that guy.

00:26:09.221 --> 00:26:13.672
I absolutely love that guy.

00:26:13.711 --> 00:26:15.336
What a fiery spirit.

00:26:15.435 --> 00:26:19.244
What a gregarious and fun guy to be around.

00:26:19.586 --> 00:26:28.894
you know getting into the into the 90s you know you had blue blazers and then you did the album in your eyes also on this on the alligator label which you know is a bit of a departure from a strict blues album

00:26:29.034 --> 00:26:56.086
you know i had been writing i had been writing some songs and i really wanted to i wanted to stretch you know because for me the blues the blues has spawned practically all of the great music that we listen to now rock pop punk funk country jazz you name it so i just wanted to dabble into some of that kind of into some of the musics that were spawned by the blues.

00:27:17.346 --> 00:27:19.887
There's quite a few live albums of you available.

00:27:19.968 --> 00:27:26.294
So, you know, if you're playing live concerts, which, you know, captures a nice live sound and, you know, nice long solos from you.

00:27:26.413 --> 00:27:29.195
So, I mean, what about that, releasing the live albums?

00:27:29.256 --> 00:27:32.578
Is that something you've been really encouraged to do to get that different sound out?

00:27:32.898 --> 00:27:33.819
I'll tell you what, man.

00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:36.021
I really didn't want to do live albums.

00:27:36.762 --> 00:27:40.405
I really liked the control that's possible in the studio.

00:27:40.786 --> 00:27:44.368
But the band had been bugging me for years.

00:27:45.109 --> 00:28:11.938
It was like, at some point, I was like, okay all right enough let's do it you know and I did it because I did it because because I wanted him to stop wearing my brain out about doing it and the drummer finally he just he just said okay that's it I quit if you don't do a live album I quit I was like okay all right all right all right we'll do it and I'm actually I'm really glad we did

00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:29.576
yeah no some great ones and some great songs on there and then back to the studio in 2007, the Code Blue album, you do a song called Chicago Blues, which is, you know, very much about, you know, the sort of decline of the popularity of the blues and that it's your responsibility and other people to try and keep the blues alive.

00:28:29.615 --> 00:28:30.517
Ain't

00:28:30.537 --> 00:28:44.029
nobody waters in Chicago And the wolf don't howl no more Junior Wells and the Bad Axe Have left the

00:28:52.097 --> 00:28:53.818
Did you write the lyrics to that song yourself?

00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:54.539
Yes, I did.

00:28:54.859 --> 00:28:58.983
My bass player and I came up with the music and the melody for it.

00:28:59.344 --> 00:29:02.767
Actually, she came up with a bass line that was kind of outrageous.

00:29:02.886 --> 00:29:04.509
I was like, ooh, that's nasty.

00:29:04.709 --> 00:29:15.417
And so we started working at it and Junior Rose had passed not too long ago and it just made me realize that, man, all of the great old timers were leaving us.

00:29:15.739 --> 00:29:22.545
And so as a result, Chicago Blues is the song that resulted from that feeling of Ross.

00:29:23.204 --> 00:29:29.112
I feel that I was so very blessed to have been able to know and work with these guys.

00:29:29.352 --> 00:29:40.523
And I will never be able to thank Memphis Slim enough because he said, son, playing over here and, you know, cutting and working with the stones and all of that, that's all that's good.

00:29:40.963 --> 00:29:57.663
He said, but what you really need to do is go to Chicago and sit down and listen and learn from some of those great blues harmonica players to And that was some of the best advice that I ever got.

00:29:58.183 --> 00:29:59.986
But you're back in living in Europe now.

00:30:00.006 --> 00:30:01.028
You're living in Italy now.

00:30:01.048 --> 00:30:01.548
Is that right?

00:30:01.909 --> 00:30:02.288
Yeah.

00:30:02.849 --> 00:30:04.352
Yes, we're in Italy now.

00:30:04.612 --> 00:30:04.791
Yes.

00:30:05.692 --> 00:30:06.034
Okay.

00:30:06.114 --> 00:30:13.262
So on the Cold Blue album, sorry, and also on the In Your Eyes album as well, you play some chromatic harmonica here.

00:30:13.303 --> 00:30:18.148
So the Average Guy song on the In Your Eyes albums plays some pretty tasty chromatic.

00:30:23.746 --> 00:30:24.317
Thank you.

00:30:38.498 --> 00:30:42.362
So chromatic's something you use quite a lot of, yeah, not just in a blues context.

00:30:42.962 --> 00:30:43.463
Oh, yeah.

00:30:43.564 --> 00:30:51.752
I mean, you know, it's like I was listening to Stevie and cats like Toots Tillman.

00:30:52.012 --> 00:30:56.778
Not that I can equal these people, but I was definitely influenced by them.

00:30:57.199 --> 00:31:06.569
And the chromatic harmonica lends itself to a very melodic and very beautiful and warm sound, which is why I used it.

00:31:06.913 --> 00:31:09.336
Yeah, and a very effective on-the-average-guy song, yeah.

00:31:09.696 --> 00:31:16.365
Yeah, actually, I used it in a tune called Lip Service and Lies, too, and in Chicago Blues.

00:31:16.885 --> 00:31:30.262
Actually, I mixed the chromatic harmonica for the hook, and the chromatic harmonica and diatonic harmonica recorded one over the other, and it really was a special kind of sound.

00:31:30.282 --> 00:31:32.766
¶¶

00:31:56.738 --> 00:31:59.941
On the Threshold album, you do this song, Ramblin'.

00:32:00.221 --> 00:32:01.301
What two harmonicas are they?

00:32:01.321 --> 00:32:03.784
It sounds like there's maybe a bass harmonica on

00:32:03.804 --> 00:32:04.525
there.

00:32:04.644 --> 00:32:07.567
Yeah, one is called a chromonica.

00:32:07.928 --> 00:32:10.809
It's a chromatic instrument, and it's all blow.

00:32:11.109 --> 00:32:15.074
And it's in the bass, and it's in the bass clef.

00:32:15.413 --> 00:32:23.260
And then there's a 365-14 home harmonic marine band in the key of C, which they stopped making, and it broke my heart.

00:32:24.721 --> 00:32:26.703
So is it you playing both the harmonicas?

00:32:26.703 --> 00:32:42.300
yeah that's me playing both hearts yeah I know it sounds great really effective that one there's an interview with you on the last song on that Threshold album which is really interesting and a really good interview so well worth a listen if people want to hear more from you on that on the last track on that Threshold album

00:32:42.760 --> 00:32:48.267
oh yeah right yeah I was yeah I was chatterboxing my brains out on that one

00:32:49.508 --> 00:32:58.419
well you say this really beautiful thing about what music means to you towards the end of that interview which is really beautiful to hear so yeah I recommend people checking that out.

00:32:59.421 --> 00:33:02.266
Really stumbling up what the music means to you.

00:33:02.886 --> 00:33:08.957
Music is the intermediary between the spiritual and sensual life.

00:33:09.458 --> 00:33:11.381
You know what I mean?

00:33:11.441 --> 00:33:14.767
It is the medium between the spiritual and the sensual life.

00:33:15.387 --> 00:33:20.676
It touches everything we do and every aspect of our lives.

00:33:21.281 --> 00:33:24.785
Another live album from you, Raw Sugar, in 2012.

00:33:24.805 --> 00:33:29.930
And a song which you're quite well associated with is Muddy Waters' One More Mile.

00:33:30.210 --> 00:33:33.873
And you do this effect where you hold a single note for like a really long time.

00:33:33.932 --> 00:33:37.276
So that's a little harmonica trick you like to do, isn't it?

00:33:37.635 --> 00:33:41.940
Every now and then, you know, it was like, I felt like it was effective at the time.

00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:43.661
So I did it.

00:33:44.402 --> 00:33:45.222
Yeah, I think it is.

00:33:45.262 --> 00:33:48.806
I think people are like, wow, how does he not need to breathe?

00:33:48.846 --> 00:33:50.267
So it's worth it from that point of view.

00:33:50.346 --> 00:33:51.953
If nothing else, it's It's impressive.

00:34:26.914 --> 00:34:31.251
Getting on to your most recent album, which is called Colors, released in 2019.

00:34:32.416 --> 00:34:35.188
So what about that album and why the name Colors?

00:34:35.585 --> 00:34:47.115
Well, I mean, just the various colors of the music, you know, because we did, we did, we touched on quite a few different genres in that.

00:34:47.396 --> 00:34:51.360
And I thought, oh, there's many different colors in that, in that album.

00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:52.981
So I was like, okay, colors.

00:34:53.061 --> 00:34:54.001
That's the name of the album.

00:34:54.943 --> 00:34:56.443
Yeah, no, it's a great album as well.

00:34:56.483 --> 00:34:59.166
So yeah, I say your most recent album and getting out there now.

00:34:59.246 --> 00:35:00.286
And so a couple of the songs.

00:35:00.306 --> 00:35:02.309
So on the song, I'm the devil too.

00:35:02.548 --> 00:35:07.418
You got this great sound effect with a, with a harmonica, which kind of summons the devil, yeah?

00:35:07.478 --> 00:35:10.608
So it's really effective, that sort of effect you've got on the harmonic on that one.

00:35:31.458 --> 00:35:35.242
I just hooked up to my amplifier.

00:35:35.382 --> 00:35:40.967
Actually, it was an amplifier, a boogie that Keith Richards gave me.

00:35:41.489 --> 00:35:48.476
And I just maxed it out and used lots of middle.

00:35:49.036 --> 00:35:53.882
And I just overdrove it to a max.

00:35:54.202 --> 00:35:58.047
And the sound worked really well for me.

00:35:58.067 --> 00:36:00.510
I mean, I thought it was great for that particular tune.

00:36:00.961 --> 00:36:19.166
yeah no it's great yeah really shows that range of sounds coming out the harmonica yeah and then you know you say you've got a few different styles on there you've got some nice acoustic playing on there we've got bass reeves which is a you know some nice acoustic sounds you do day tripper by the beatles so uh

00:36:26.498 --> 00:36:27.239
I love that

00:36:27.298 --> 00:36:27.518
tune.

00:36:27.938 --> 00:36:30.561
And you do the Day Tripper riff on the harmonica.

00:36:31.061 --> 00:36:35.385
So, you know, how do you approach a song that's so sort of well-known as Day Tripper?

00:36:36.347 --> 00:36:47.675
Well, I mean, we had one of the great bass players in the Ice Kickers, and I said, hey, man, I want to funk this up.

00:36:48.317 --> 00:36:49.757
And he said, well, how about this?

00:36:50.478 --> 00:36:53.681
And he came up with this bass line that was really rocking.

00:36:54.501 --> 00:36:57.144
And so the rest of but it was easy.

00:36:57.806 --> 00:36:58.867
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

00:36:58.887 --> 00:37:01.530
Yeah, and I really like the song Man Like Me as well.

00:37:01.570 --> 00:37:02.650
That's a great one.

00:37:02.690 --> 00:37:03.371
Something interesting.

00:37:03.431 --> 00:37:04.733
Did you write the lyrics for that one?

00:37:05.054 --> 00:37:05.655
Yes, I did.

00:37:05.695 --> 00:37:08.318
That was a breakup song.

00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:11.621
Yeah, so a great album.

00:37:11.782 --> 00:37:13.983
So you're still promoting the album Colors now.

00:37:14.065 --> 00:37:16.067
I think it's come out reasonably recently, hasn't it?

00:37:16.106 --> 00:37:18.809
Obviously, during this time, that's something you're still trying to promote.

00:37:19.451 --> 00:37:20.052
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:20.592 --> 00:37:21.713
And

00:37:21.954 --> 00:37:25.237
actually, you know, very shortly, we're going to start working on a new one.

00:37:25.762 --> 00:37:27.923
We'll move on from your recording career, though.

00:37:27.983 --> 00:37:29.304
You played with lots of great people.

00:37:29.684 --> 00:37:32.327
You played with Muddy Waters, I believe, as well, B.B.

00:37:32.367 --> 00:37:35.911
King, Art Blakey, Stan Getz you played with as well, is that right?

00:37:36.911 --> 00:37:39.074
Yeah, actually I got to record with him, yes.

00:37:40.215 --> 00:37:42.617
Did you record or you played with Frank Zappa even?

00:37:42.876 --> 00:37:52.344
I worked with Zappa and it was a live thing that we did in the Terry Mutualité, a huge theater in Paris.

00:37:52.905 --> 00:37:55.228
And he said, hey man, I want to play some blues.

00:37:55.288 --> 00:37:59.057
Will you play some blues with me, I was like, hell yeah, are you kidding?

00:37:59.139 --> 00:38:05.639
You know, because, I mean, Zappa was a guitar god, you know, and somebody that I really loved for a long time.

00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.849
And so it was really a great pleasure to work with him.

00:38:09.505 --> 00:38:10.947
Yeah, no, fantastic.

00:38:11.126 --> 00:38:15.030
Legendary Frank Zappa and the very interesting things he's done through the years.

00:38:15.710 --> 00:38:20.434
Yeah, and talking to you on the awards, you know, you've got two Grammys under your belt for the recordings you played on.

00:38:20.456 --> 00:38:26.159
You've also won the Chicago Music Best Performer in 2012, 13 and 14 as well.

00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:30.003
So you're still, you know, very active there in the Chicago thing and winning those three awards.

00:38:30.563 --> 00:38:30.864
That was

00:38:31.045 --> 00:38:38.891
really special, you know, I mean, to win those kind of awards in Chicago for a New Yorker is really kind of special.

00:38:39.351 --> 00:38:45.396
And and you played at Robert Johnson's The 100th Birthday concert at the Apollo Theatre, which is where your mother started out as well.

00:38:45.436 --> 00:38:47.039
You had a special time for you there.

00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:48.380
Oh, yeah, man.

00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.101
I was like, okay, hey, I'm here.

00:38:51.282 --> 00:38:59.009
I did it, you know, because, you know, it's like I hung around that theatre from the time I was a kid.

00:38:59.409 --> 00:39:02.932
I never thought I would get an opportunity to play there.

00:39:03.052 --> 00:39:08.958
It meant more to me than playing at Carnegie Hall, okay, because I played at Carnegie Hall with Willie Dixon.

00:39:09.346 --> 00:39:10.289
And that was nice.

00:39:10.409 --> 00:39:13.579
But playing at the Apollo Theater, that was the top.

00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.347
It's like your mother wasn't at the concert.

00:39:16.989 --> 00:39:20.601
No, my mom had passed away quite a few years before.

00:39:21.217 --> 00:39:31.567
And so I'm in the UK and you've come over here a few times with Giles Robson and the blues concerts that he's put on and he's brought you over and he's played with his band and Billy Branch.

00:39:31.606 --> 00:39:34.650
So how about those gigs with Giles Robson?

00:39:35.110 --> 00:39:36.731
Oh, yeah, man.

00:39:37.092 --> 00:39:38.233
We had a ball, you know.

00:39:38.432 --> 00:39:40.414
Billy played there, Giles.

00:39:40.815 --> 00:39:42.356
Yeah, you played with Charlie Musselwhite.

00:39:42.597 --> 00:39:46.039
Yeah, Charlie Musselwhite was there, yeah.

00:39:46.059 --> 00:39:47.621
It was fun.

00:39:47.681 --> 00:39:49.222
We had fun there, you know.

00:39:49.623 --> 00:39:52.989
Hanging out, talking harmonica It was great.

00:39:53.269 --> 00:39:57.402
And we played some great music together.

00:39:57.742 --> 00:39:59.427
Yeah, I saw one of those concerts.

00:39:59.507 --> 00:40:01.393
I was there when you played in Burnley.

00:40:01.793 --> 00:40:04.356
You've recorded on some film tracks.

00:40:04.376 --> 00:40:07.858
You recorded on a Robert De Niro film, Angel Heart, in 1987, yeah?

00:40:08.099 --> 00:40:08.480
Yeah,

00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:13.083
and Brandon McGee brought me in on that.

00:40:13.523 --> 00:40:15.106
Brandon McGee brought me in on that.

00:40:15.306 --> 00:40:19.228
I remember I got a call and he said, hey, you want to do a movie with me?

00:40:19.268 --> 00:40:24.494
And I was like, I mean, when Brandon McGee calls and says, do you want to?

00:40:24.934 --> 00:40:27.956
It doesn't matter what you want you to do, you do it.

00:40:28.817 --> 00:40:29.958
Yeah, fantastic, yeah.

00:40:29.978 --> 00:40:31.239
So it's great to be on that.

00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:39.047
And then you did a sort of you played also with Fats Domino and Ray Charles on a sort of Fats Domino's and Friends music documentary

00:40:40.268 --> 00:41:05.195
yeah that was really great man I mean that was that was a dream come true for me man to work with Ray Charles and Fats Domino and Jerry Lewis man that was really the bomb it was really the bomb I mean but standing next to for me one of the greatest one of the greatest voices of all time Ray Charles it was I had no roots for that

00:41:06.836 --> 00:41:15.025
well again one of the great so you play with some fantastic people and that doesn't get much better than Ray Charles as well so yeah well done you've got an amazing career so

00:41:15.367 --> 00:41:22.494
yeah I recorded with Dylan too I had an opportunity to record with Dylan way back in the 70s

00:41:22.875 --> 00:41:24.255
wow do you know which track that was

00:41:24.615 --> 00:41:35.088
yeah it's called it's called nobody can throw the ball like catfish can it was about it was a blues song about a baseball player

00:41:36.349 --> 00:42:05.119
so brilliant yeah again a fantastic recording career played with some some of the biggest names in music there so if we move on to the last section now we'll talk a little about your playing style and then about some of your gear again so yeah I'll move on so your playing style you know is very quite unique in harmonica you know you play quite a lot of fast licks you play a lot of top end stuff you've got a very distinctive style there's a quote about you which you transcend the supposed limitations of the instrument so you know how do you approach that style and what do you think about that tag

00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:35.614
hey man you know people people said well that was a critic a music critic wrote that about me I really appreciated it I just do what I do man I play I mean I play from my heart and and I took in the various musical experiences and influences that I've had over the years into into the music I play it's just me it's just what I do Thank you.

00:42:50.081 --> 00:42:52.804
Well, you know, it's very effective and, you know, very distinctive sound.

00:42:52.844 --> 00:42:54.746
You know, you definitely push the harmonica.

00:42:54.766 --> 00:42:56.768
You know, you don't sound like anybody else.

00:42:56.807 --> 00:42:58.809
You know, so it's great what you've done.

00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:04.153
So obviously we talked about you listening to jazz early on and I've heard you say that you like to practice scales.

00:43:04.213 --> 00:43:14.103
So is that the way that maybe on the top end, especially where you do some runs, which, you know, kind of based on your practice of scales and, you know, and the importance of playing that, you know, playing scales and that type of stuff?

00:43:14.443 --> 00:43:17.125
I like on any instrument, man.

00:43:17.186 --> 00:43:22.030
If you want a massive facility in fluid you better practice skills

00:43:23.432 --> 00:43:47.485
but you've also you know as well as this you know you're not just a fast player but you also do get some really beautiful acoustic tone you know some some beautiful war sounds you know when people checking you out if they're not that familiar you know you get some you know some really truly fantastic tone on the harmonica as well so you know what about how you developed you know a nice tone as well so

00:44:03.969 --> 00:44:19.974
I listen to cats like Big Walter and Center Boy and try to absorb as much from them as I could, you know, because they're masterful acoustic harmonica players.

00:44:20.554 --> 00:44:33.014
You take as much as you possibly can from the masters and try and interiorize it and then do what you do your way according to the things that you've learned from them, you know.

00:44:33.378 --> 00:44:38.643
For me, one of the plays with the most incredible acoustic sound was Big Walter, man.

00:44:38.862 --> 00:44:39.864
What a...

00:44:40.003 --> 00:44:46.389
I mean, I used to sit in front of him and I'm still awed by the sound that that man could get out of a harmonic.

00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:48.710
Yeah, I've heard that from other people too, you know.

00:44:48.771 --> 00:44:49.711
What do you think it was?

00:44:49.931 --> 00:44:51.793
Because he had big hands for one thing, was that...

00:44:51.954 --> 00:44:56.018
He had big hands and he had a very large face.

00:44:56.617 --> 00:45:00.501
From his cheekbone down to his jawbone.

00:45:00.822 --> 00:45:03.083
I mean, that gave him a sound box that was...

00:45:03.344 --> 00:45:04.945
That was incredible.

00:45:06.106 --> 00:45:07.929
Yeah, so those physical attributes, yeah.

00:45:08.369 --> 00:45:22.304
And you do, there's a nice video of you doing an unplugged video on YouTube, which I'll put a link to on, and again, showing off your acoustic tone there, and you do a nice version of old blues on there as well, which, you know, showing your jazzy roots again there.

00:45:30.094 --> 00:45:30.173
Yeah.

00:45:43.170 --> 00:45:44.032
Oh, yeah, man.

00:45:44.333 --> 00:45:46.016
I mean, all blues.

00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:48.784
Miles Davis, man.

00:45:48.945 --> 00:45:52.554
I love that guy.

00:45:52.614 --> 00:45:55.221
Talk about somebody that can play the blues.

00:45:57.282 --> 00:45:58.043
Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:58.083 --> 00:45:58.824
I mean, I think you're right.

00:45:58.844 --> 00:46:05.213
You know, listening to those sax players, those horn players, you know, who thought it was jazz, but they play blues a lot of the time, don't they?

00:46:05.233 --> 00:46:12.302
So a lot of harmonica players will do well to go and listen to some of those guys and get the blues lines out of the jazz guys as well.

00:46:13.023 --> 00:46:14.344
Oh, yeah.

00:46:14.364 --> 00:46:22.016
I mean, you know, you've got to expand your musical input, you know what I'm saying?

00:46:22.836 --> 00:46:24.920
And so that you can

00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:26.322
paint with a broad brush.

00:46:27.458 --> 00:46:33.884
So a question I ask each time is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

00:46:34.284 --> 00:46:47.114
I would practice my scales, take time to listen to and play a song that I like, you know, work on a melody of a song that I like.

00:46:48.416 --> 00:46:50.737
And that would pretty much cover it.

00:46:51.139 --> 00:46:53.199
Yeah, that'd take 10 minutes.

00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:54.882
So we'll move on to the last section now.

00:46:55.021 --> 00:46:57.304
So, yeah, so talking about gear now.

00:46:57.423 --> 00:47:05.733
So first of all, an iconic picture of you is wearing that great harmonica belt that you have, the sort of gunslinger sort of belt with all your harmonicas in.

00:47:05.793 --> 00:47:07.275
So where did you get that one from?

00:47:07.635 --> 00:47:27.376
Well, I used to keep my harmonicas in a box on top of my amp, and one night I reached back there and I went to grab a harp and knocked the entire box over behind the stage, and that was like, okay, I've got to find another way to keep my harps where I can get my hands on them.

00:47:27.376 --> 00:47:30.338
And that was where the harmonica belt was born.

00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.802
Yeah, so did you have that purpose built for you?

00:47:32.842 --> 00:47:33.862
Yeah, I did.

00:47:34.143 --> 00:47:35.485
A friend of mine built it for me.

00:47:35.905 --> 00:47:38.467
Yeah, because they're quite tricky in a way, aren't they?

00:47:38.507 --> 00:47:41.731
Because you find it works, but it doesn't get in the way and it holds your harps well.

00:47:42.132 --> 00:47:49.900
Yeah, and then you've got all your harps right there on your chest.

00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:50.820
I mean, it

00:47:51.001 --> 00:47:51.201
works.

00:47:51.822 --> 00:47:53.463
And it's, again, certainly a great look.

00:47:53.603 --> 00:47:56.967
I'm talking about the harmonicas that you play, your harmonica of choice.

00:47:56.987 --> 00:47:58.969
I know you play the Special 20 for a long time.

00:47:59.309 --> 00:48:00.652
Was that your favorite harmonica?

00:48:00.972 --> 00:48:10.882
When they first made the Special 20, I started playing it because I had been using, of course, my own band because that's all there is before.

00:48:11.083 --> 00:48:13.284
That's all there was from Homer before that.

00:48:13.726 --> 00:48:22.255
And I practiced so much that the space divided between the reeds would swell up and cut my tongue and cut my lips.

00:48:22.815 --> 00:48:27.079
And when they put out the plastic one, I said, yeah, man, finally, great.

00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:30.143
No more cut up lips, no more bleeding tongue.

00:48:31.423 --> 00:48:36.190
Yeah, of course, back then they didn't treat the wood in the marine bands, but they've got the crossovers now.

00:48:36.269 --> 00:48:39.253
So are you playing the crossovers or are you still using the Special 20s?

00:48:39.873 --> 00:48:41.474
I still use the Special 20s.

00:48:41.775 --> 00:48:50.224
I mean, I've used the crossovers, especially the low tone ones on a track that I caught, but I prefer the Special 20.

00:48:50.585 --> 00:48:53.608
I mean, you know, that's my hop of choice.

00:48:54.128 --> 00:48:55.750
Yeah, have you tried the Rockets?

00:48:55.769 --> 00:48:58.313
Because the Rockets is a sort of new version of the Special 20.

00:48:58.333 --> 00:48:59.173
They're very nice.

00:48:59.775 --> 00:49:06.802
Yeah, actually, I was talking with my guy at Horner, and he was telling me, yeah, you've got to try this.

00:49:06.842 --> 00:49:07.643
You've got to try this.

00:49:07.663 --> 00:49:08.684
You're going to really like it.

00:49:08.764 --> 00:49:11.507
I said, okay, send me some.

00:49:11.547 --> 00:49:12.347
We'll see how it goes.

00:49:12.949 --> 00:49:19.376
You talked about the 365, the extended range Horner diatonic, which Sonny Boy used to play, of course.

00:49:19.576 --> 00:49:20.717
So you still have some of those.

00:49:21.217 --> 00:49:23.260
Actually, Sonny Boy never played that.

00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:23.920
Oh, did he not?

00:49:24.021 --> 00:49:24.300
Okay.

00:49:24.641 --> 00:49:25.541
No, he didn't.

00:49:25.922 --> 00:49:28.025
What he used was the Yeah.

00:49:28.264 --> 00:49:31.007
Yeah.

00:49:57.135 --> 00:49:58.697
wasn't using the...

00:49:58.818 --> 00:50:00.860
I thought he was using the 14 move.

00:50:02.101 --> 00:50:04.903
And do you have a favourite key of a diatonic?

00:50:05.324 --> 00:50:06.706
Not particularly.

00:50:06.826 --> 00:50:08.407
The key that works for the song.

00:50:08.807 --> 00:50:10.309
That's all that matters for me.

00:50:10.771 --> 00:50:14.695
Yeah, because I notice in your songs you do play quite a wide range of harps.

00:50:14.715 --> 00:50:18.117
So you're up to quite a lot on the F harp and then down on the lower ones as well.

00:50:18.378 --> 00:50:20.940
Obviously you play the low harps like in Another Man Done Gone.

00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:22.884
So yeah, you have a big range there.

00:50:23.384 --> 00:50:25.887
And do you play any different tunings at all?

00:50:26.246 --> 00:50:26.387
No.

00:50:26.947 --> 00:50:33.795
On a regularly tuned, I remember Willie Dixon gave me a minor tuned harmonica.

00:50:33.954 --> 00:50:34.936
I didn't really like it.

00:50:35.277 --> 00:50:39.121
He was like, if I want to play in a minor, then I'll just

00:50:39.141 --> 00:50:41.563
change positions on a regular harp.

00:50:42.164 --> 00:50:44.286
So, yeah, so you're talking about positions then.

00:50:44.306 --> 00:50:46.688
I mean, you play various positions on the harp.

00:50:47.068 --> 00:50:54.697
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like, you know, first, second, third, some fourth, and that's about it for me.

00:50:54.898 --> 00:50:56.619
I go as far as fourth.

00:50:56.900 --> 00:50:59.422
I've used fifth, but I never recorded anything

00:50:59.463 --> 00:50:59.782
with it.

00:51:00.202 --> 00:51:02.206
I think you do play some overblows, don't you?

00:51:02.246 --> 00:51:13.717
No, man, I'm not a big fan of overblows, you know, which is one of the reasons that if I need overblows, if I need those notes, I'll go to a chromatic, you know.

00:51:14.318 --> 00:51:21.346
Here and there on some tracks, I've used like an overblow here or there, but I'm not an overblow guy.

00:51:21.626 --> 00:51:23.047
And what about the ombus you use?

00:51:23.148 --> 00:51:25.389
Are you a lip purser or a tone blocker?

00:51:25.630 --> 00:51:26.992
I'm a tone blocker, yeah.

00:51:26.992 --> 00:51:29.054
Yeah, man, like, old school, man.

00:51:29.233 --> 00:51:29.974
You know what I mean?

00:51:30.094 --> 00:51:30.615
Old school.

00:51:30.695 --> 00:51:35.681
Like, uh, Big Walter, um, Willie Walter, um, Silly Boy.

00:51:35.721 --> 00:51:37.963
And, uh, and amplifiers?

00:51:38.043 --> 00:51:39.666
Any particular favorite amplifier?

00:51:39.965 --> 00:51:50.677
I use, I mean, wow, from the time that Keith gave me the boogie, I used that for, I mean, I used that for about, from the time I recorded, uh, Miss You on.

00:51:50.797 --> 00:51:55.543
I mean, I used it on practically every, practically everything that I recorded.

00:51:55.623 --> 00:51:57.644
I used, I used, uh, So a

00:51:58.266 --> 00:51:58.987
mess of boogie

00:52:00.469 --> 00:52:03.815
is that?

00:52:03.976 --> 00:52:05.820
And

00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.063
microphones, any microphones particularly?

00:52:08.605 --> 00:52:14.195
Yeah.

00:52:16.289 --> 00:52:17.570
What about recording?

00:52:17.650 --> 00:52:19.932
Any microphones, particularly for recording?

00:52:20.293 --> 00:52:27.639
Yeah, the Green Bullet, and every now and then I still have an Aesthetic that I like for some things.

00:52:28.219 --> 00:52:32.184
Mostly I use the Shure Green Bullet, mostly now.

00:52:32.664 --> 00:52:33.925
And what about effects pedals?

00:52:33.945 --> 00:52:37.487
We talked about you use effects very well, so any effects you use?

00:52:37.929 --> 00:52:44.253
Actually, I used to use effects when I was living in France.

00:52:44.514 --> 00:52:52.523
I used to use a lot of pedals back then and I used pedals when I first moved over to Chicago.

00:53:23.297 --> 00:53:26.960
But at some point, I just dumped all the effects and went with the...

00:53:27.240 --> 00:53:32.565
And I was like, I wanted to get back to the natural sound of the harp and hear the amplifier.

00:53:32.985 --> 00:53:34.788
Okay, so last question then.

00:53:34.967 --> 00:53:37.811
So again, thanks for your time and I appreciate you taking the time.

00:53:37.971 --> 00:53:38.851
You're busy there.

00:53:39.271 --> 00:53:40.132
No problem, man.

00:53:40.393 --> 00:53:40.893
Thank you.

00:53:41.454 --> 00:53:42.715
Just about your future plans now.

00:53:42.775 --> 00:53:43.596
What have you got coming up?

00:53:43.635 --> 00:53:46.277
You mentioned that you're thinking about recording a new album.

00:53:46.818 --> 00:53:47.739
Yeah, man.

00:53:47.918 --> 00:53:49.561
I've written a lot of tunes, man.

00:53:50.842 --> 00:54:00.931
Since the COVID lockdown gave me a lot time to sit around and think about this that and the other so I've written a lot of material and it's time to get in the

00:54:00.952 --> 00:54:05.717
studio and record So is that going to happen maybe come out next year that album?

00:54:06.277 --> 00:54:06.657
Yeah

00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:13.746
I think it should be ready by next year Are

00:54:14.367 --> 00:54:17.929
you going to record that over in Italy or are you going back to Chicago?

00:54:18.090 --> 00:54:24.478
Well right now I'm going to probably be doing some Zoom sessions, man.

00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:26.141
Oh, yeah.

00:54:26.342 --> 00:54:32.413
I'll zoom into Chicago and hook up with Rico McFarlane.

00:54:32.652 --> 00:54:34.817
And we'll do it like that.

00:54:35.056 --> 00:54:37.481
We'll do it like that, you know.

00:54:37.782 --> 00:54:40.487
I don't want to be traveling all over the place right now, man.

00:54:40.527 --> 00:54:41.889
COVID is saying stay.

00:54:42.289 --> 00:54:43.452
Hunker down.

00:54:44.385 --> 00:54:45.126
Definitely, yeah.

00:54:45.246 --> 00:54:48.092
So thank you so much for joining me today and taking the time, Sugar Boo.

00:54:48.112 --> 00:54:49.112
It's been great to speak to you.

00:54:49.353 --> 00:54:50.715
Hey, man, my pleasure, Neil.

00:54:50.755 --> 00:54:51.797
Thank you, and

00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:53.661
take care.

00:54:53.860 --> 00:54:56.465
Y'all stay safe, and good music to you.

00:54:56.965 --> 00:54:58.467
That's another episode in the bag.

00:54:58.929 --> 00:55:00.512
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

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Apologies for the sound quality on that.

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Sugar was in a restaurant, but I'm sure you'll all agree, some fantastic stuff from him there.

00:55:07.329 --> 00:55:09.851
Word from my sponsor again, the Long Wolf Blues Company.

00:55:10.333 --> 00:55:13.054
Makers of effects pedals and microphones and amplifiers.

00:55:13.074 --> 00:55:15.197
Some great stuff they make to complement your sound.

00:55:15.317 --> 00:55:16.697
Be sure to check out their website.

00:55:17.018 --> 00:55:22.862
And also a reminder that the Spotify playlist contains most of the tracks discussed during the podcast.

00:55:23.344 --> 00:55:27.106
So search that out on Spotify and listen to some of the recordings of these great artists.

00:55:27.748 --> 00:55:30.750
And the final thing, please remember to subscribe to the podcast.

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You get updates on your favourite podcast player on your smartphone then.

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Of course you can listen through the website.

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So Sugar, play as the hoochie coochie ma.