Dec. 6, 2024

Sonny Terry retrospective with Paul Lamb, Joe Filisko and Adam Sikora

Paul Lamb, Joe Filisko and Adam Sikora join me on episode 125, for a retrospective on one of the legends of the diatonic harmonica, Sonny Terry, whose real name was Saunders Terrell.
Sonny was born in 1911 (or 1912), in Greensboro, Georgia (or it could have been North Carolina). Growing up on a farm in a rural community, Sonny was left blind by two accidents in his youth. Unable to work on the farm he turned to music, with his harmonica playing father giving him his early lessons.
Sonny first rose to prominence playing with Blind Boy Fuller, and then made a splash by performing at Carnegie Hall in 1938 as part of the ‘From Spirituals To Swing’ concert.
A few years later he formed probably the most famous blues duo ever, with Brownie McGhee. Sonny and Brownie made their name in the New York Folk scene and went on to play together for forty years, travelling the world, with many festival appearances, on Broadway, in movies and countless albums together. Sonny also played solo and with many other notable musicians besides Brownie, including an album with Johnny Winter towards the end of his life.
We look into Sonny’s style of playing and talk about how his rhythmical work is essential study in getting your own harmonica chops together.

Links:
Sonny Terry Estate items for sale:
https://bluemoonharmonicas.com/collections/sonny-terry-estate-llc

Paul Lamb: http://paullamb.com/

Joe Filisko: https://www.filiskostore.com/

Adam Sikora: https://jukejointsmokers.com/

http://www.the-archivist.co.uk/rare-early-blues-harp-recordings-by-singers-and-sidemen-introduced-by-joe-filisko/

Videos:
American Folk Blues Festival, Hootin’ The Blues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtO7cctW1uI

Sonny and Woody Guthrie postage stamps playing Lost John:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4ldxb0iGHc

Sonny and Brownie in one of their last concerts, 1980:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDNhA5irc8

Sonny and Brownie playing on The Jerk, Steve Martin movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDgOUoDTsY

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com

Support the show

01:58 - Paul Lamb, Adam Sakori and Joe Filisko join me on the 125th episode to discuss Sonny Terry

02:19 - Paul Lamb was the guest on the very first episode, in April 2020, and he met Sonny Terry and did some playing with him

03:08 - Joe Filisko was on episode six of the podcast. Joe is a specialist in early styles of harmonica

04:07 - Adam Sakori is originally from Poland, growing up in Berlin

04:49 - Adam plays with the Juke Joint Smokers

05:05 - Sonny was born on October 24th, 1911. Although there is some doubt about the date

05:27 - Sonny was probably born in Greensboro, Georgia, although there are reports that he was born in North Carolina

06:04 - What is clear is that Sonny grew up on a farm

06:19 - Was reported to be from a family of ten children

06:43 - Sonny had two separate accidents as child, losing sight in one eye age 11, and sight in the second eye age 16

07:39 - Had partial sight in one eye

09:00 - Losing his sight meant he couldn’t work on the farm so turned to music

09:17 - May have first picked up his father’s harmonica age five, although reported that he started playing properly age eight

10:13 - His harmonica playing father probably gave him his first instruction on how to play

10:23 - Sonny didn’t hear blues until he was eighteen years old and learnt folk music, reels and breakdowns on the harmonica

11:25 - Started playing harmonica on the farm, and then out with string bands and medicine shows age 18 and may have learnt some harmonica from Little John

11:55 - Probably heard first blues either on the radio or musicians busking on the street

12:31 - Early influences included Deford Bailey and Henry Whitter

13:14 - Henry Whitter was the first to record the fox chase and Sonny’s version probably drew from it heavily

14:32 - Adam thinks Sonny made have also been influenced by John Lee Williamson, who released his first recording six months before Sonny

15:29 - John Webb was another player to release early recordings

15:50 - Sonny brought a different style of playing in the 1930s, playing in a Piedmont style

16:22 - Paul thinks Sonny’s harmonica heroes were Noah Lewis, Peg Leg Sam and Deford Bailey

17:04 - Sonny started performing with Blind Boy Fuller in the early 1930s, recording their first track together in 1937

18:25 - Sonny developed his whooping and hollering to be heard when he was busking on the street

18:49 - Sonny also worked with other blind blues musicians

19:11 - Blind Boy Fuller was a big recording star at the time Sonny joined him, which helped Sonny’s career

19:23 - Sonny had a big break when he was invited to play at the ‘From Spirituals To Swing’ concert at Carnegie Hall in 1938, bringing black music to a white audience

20:13 - Blind Boy Fuller was supposed to be playing in the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert, but was (possibly) arrested and Sonny took his place

21:15 - Robert Johnson was originally lined-up for the Carnegie Hall concert, but he couldn’t make it

21:41 - Two recordings of Sonny playing the From Spirituals To Swing concert are available

22:36 - Carnegie Hall concert allowed Sonny to break into the New York folk scene and Sonny lived in New York for the rest of his life

22:54 - Sonny played in the Piedmont style and Paul was influenced by Sonny playing this style, rather than Chicago blues players

24:22 - Partnership with Brownie McGhee started when they first met in 1939 and started playing as a duo in 1940

24:57 - Brownie had polio when young and as a result walked with a limp

25:57 - Sonny replaced Jordan Webb as the harmonica player with Brownie, although both Sonny and Jordan appeared on a small number of recordings together

26:24 - Sonny and Brownie became a permanent duo from 1942 and went on to play together for almost another forty years

26:58 - Sonny and Brownie became staples on the New York folk scene

27:42 - The New York folk scene included political protest, with Larry Adler also involved

28:26 - Sonny and Brownie did some protest songs as part of the Folk movement, with Brownie a good songwriter

29:15 - Recording of Lost John with with Woody Guthrie

29:40 - The Folk scene propelled Sonny and Brownie to fame

30:19 - Sonny and Brownie used to keep it quite loose and play off each other, not too rehearsed

31:08 - Sonny performed a song in a Broadway show, Finian’s Rainbow, from 1947-48, and the story of Sonny agreeing to play it the same way every night

32:34 - Sonny and Brownie performed in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof in the 1950s

32:44 - 1952 album: Sonny Terry Harmonica and Vocal solos

33:20 - Sonny Terry and His Washboard Band is one of Adam’s favourite albums and Adam plans to create a band with himself, washboard, single string bass and bones

34:18 - Toured around the world with Brownie

34:45 - 1958 album Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee Sing which Paul studied deeply

36:16 - Sonny and Brownie also record an album with Big Bill Broonzy

36:58 - Sonny played a concert with Pete Seeger at Carnegie Hall in 1958, further illustrating Sonny’s connection into the Folk scene

38:04 - In 1958 Sonny and Brownie toured the UK with the Chris Barber Jazz band, which exposed them to a British audience laying the bedrock for the British Blues boom of the 1960s

39:09 - Sonny and Brownie were popular with audiences because they were entertaining

39:48 - Sonny and Brownie took part in the American Folk and Blues festivals in Europe

41:21 - Sonny and Brownie were regulars on the festival circuit, including playing at the first Newport Folk Festival in 1959

41:58 - Sonny had the ability to play unaccompanied, which not many other harmonica players can

42:51 - Sonny and Brownie performed in the Broadway production of Cat On A Hot Tin Roof and they were at their pinnacle through the 1950s and 60s

44:14 - Some great albums released through the 1960s, including Sonny’s Story

44:47 - Recorded an album with Lightning Hopkins

45:05 - Sonny Is King is another great album from the 1960s, where he does his ‘I Want My Mama’ talking harmonica ‘trick’ and earlier recordings of this from other players

47:05 - Sonny and Brownie sometimes played as part of a full band together, which they may have done at the request of the record company

48:16 - Drinkin’ In The Blues is an example of the tension that could exist on stage between Sonny and Brownie

50:51 - Paul tells of times he saw tension between Sonny and Brownie

51:17 - Paul addresses the accusation that Sonny played the same licks a lot of the time as that was his style, and all the early players were the same, and it brought them success

52:28 - Little Walter broke the mould by not playing the same stock licks

53:16 - The breakdown in the relationship between Sonny and Brownie led to them playing less together in the mid-1970s and their last concert together may have been in 1981

55:00 - Guitarist Johnny Winter recorded an album with Sonny in 1984, with Johnny wanting to bring some exposure back on Sonny

55:50 - Paul says Johnny Winter wanted to put a Chicago style backing behind Sonny, something which Brownie never did

57:22 - Sonny Terry died on March 11, 1986, age 74, in Queens, New York

57:39 - Sonny recorded in the film Crossroads, performing with Ry Cooder, and Paul has a picture of Sonny playing with Ry Cooder shortly before Sonny died

58:22 - Sonny was inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame in 1986 (the year he died)

58:27 - In 1998 Sonny was featured on a US postage stamp, meaning he had more licks than any other harmonica player!

59:18 - Sonny’s vocals, and how the whooping, hollering and falsetto probably came from his street performing when young

01:01:41 - Although many people think Brownie had the better voice, Paul thinks Sonny had a beautiful, honest sounding voice

01:02:39 - Sonny and Brownie released a huge amount of albums, and Chris Smith published a complete discography in 1999 entitled “That’s The Stuff - The recordings of Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee, Sticks McGhee and JC Burris”

01:03:46 - Sonny’s style of harmonica is based on a wide array of rhythmical playing and his ability to play unaccompanied

01:05:33 - Adam’s admires Sonny’s rhythm, tone, including the tone of his chords

01:06:00 - Joe challenges every harmonica player to learn a chordal groove in Sonny’s style

01:07:08 - Various movie appearances with Sonny playing harmonica, include: The Jerk with Steve Martin, The Colour Purple, The Book of Numbers, and more

01:07:38 - In 1982 Sonny and Brownie both received a National Heritage Fellowship awarded by National Endowment for the Arts

01:08:01 - Adam’s favourite song is Sonny’s Squall from the Midnight Special album

01:08:40 - Joe picks out three of his favourite Sonny songs, including Lost John with Woody Guthrie

01:11:28 - Some of Paul’s favourite songs are Down By The Riverside and Blowin’ The Fuses

01:12:24 - Sonny mainly played Hohner Marine Bands and Golden Melodies

01:12:57 - Unlikely Sonny had his harmonicas customised but his bottom octave chord sounded in tune on the Golden Melodies, which may suggest otherwise

01:14:22 - Sonny could just make a stock harmonica work to how he wanted it to sound

01:15:11 - Sonny liked the low range of standard diatonic harmonicas, mainly playing on keys A, Bb, B and C

01:16:34 - The lower range of harmonicas used was probably because they work well for rhythmical playing, and also for his falsetto singing range

01:17:04 - Didn’t play any chromatic harmonica, although was photographed with one in a photoshoot, probably because you can see them in photos

01:17:23 - Sonny played some songs in straight harp with Brownie

01:18:01 - Embouchre, thought to be a pucker player but Joe hears a lot of tongue blocking, played in a unique way

01:18:21 - Paul demonstrates some embouchre techniques he used

01:18:53 - Joe talks about Sonny’s use of ‘tongue shakes’

01:19:46 - Mainly used tongue blocking as part of his rhythm playing

01:20:20 - Mainly played through a vocal mic, but started cupping the mic later in career as Brownie started using an amp

01:20:42 - Did some recordings through an amp but he played the same as his acoustic style, so didn’t sound much different

01:21:31 - Sonny did play through an amplifier on a few tracks

01:22:45 - Sonny didn’t use effects pedals but Joe thinks he was the best player at summoning his own effects straight out of the harmonica

01:23:18 - Made great use of hand effects

01:24:36 - Sonny’s influence on Adam

01:25:04 - Paul Lamb was also an inspiration to Adam (and me!)

01:25:47 - Sonny’s influence on Paul and he considers Sonny to be the greatest

01:26:45 - Joe pays credit to Adam and Paul’s harmonica contributions

01:27:05 - Joe’s final words on Sonny and his influence and Joe also thinks Sonny was the greatest diatonic player ever

01:27:44 - Joe advocates putting the time in to work on Sonny’s rhythm playing

01:30:03 - Paul says working on Sonny's groove will open the door in your playing

WEBVTT

00:00:00.130 --> 00:00:13.098
Paul Lamb, Joe Felisco and Adam Sikori join me on episode 125 for a retrospective on one of the legends of the diatonic harmonica, Sonny Terry, whose real name was Saunders Terrell.

00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:20.393
Sonny was born in 1911 or 1912 in Greensboro, Georgia, or it could have been North Carolina.

00:00:21.025 --> 00:00:26.152
Growing up in a farm in a rural community, Sonny was left blind by two accidents in his youth.

00:00:26.713 --> 00:00:32.161
Unable to work on the farm, he turned to music, with his harmonica-playing father giving him his early lessons.

00:00:32.883 --> 00:00:43.357
Sonny first rose to prominence playing with Blind Boy Fuller, and then made a splash by performing at Carnegie Hall in 1938 as part of the From Spirituals to Swing concert.

00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:48.706
A few years later, he formed probably the most famous blues duo ever with Brownie McGee.

00:00:49.473 --> 00:01:01.368
Sonny and Brownie made their name in the New York folk scene and went on to play together for 40 years, travelling the world with many festival appearances, on Broadway, in movies and countless albums together.

00:01:01.408 --> 00:01:10.218
Sonny also played solo and with many other notable musicians besides Brownie, including an album with Johnny Winter towards the end of his life.

00:01:11.561 --> 00:01:18.530
We look into Sonny's style of playing and talk about how his rhythmical work is essential study in getting your own harmonica chops together.

00:01:19.522 --> 00:01:22.066
This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas.

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Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

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Woo! Woo! Woo! Told you, sun is coming.

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Woo!

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Woo!

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Hello,

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Joe Felisco, Paul Lamb and Adam Sikori and welcome to the 125th podcast episode which is a retrospective about Sonny Terry.

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I'm

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delighted

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to be here.

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Hello, I'm Paul Lamb.

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Hello,

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I'm Adam Sikora.

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And of course, when we talked about it in the interview I did with you, you did meet Sonny, didn't you?

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And did you do some playing with him?

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Yes, that was, I would say, in the 70s.

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I met up with Sonny.

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The whole thing goes on after that.

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The legend lives on.

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So Joe Felisco is also with us.

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So Joe was on, I think, the sixth episode.

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So again, a very early one.

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I think the second player from the US I had on.

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Joe's also been a great friend to the podcast and has helped me in times hooking up with people and providing information.

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So thanks so much for that, Joe.

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So Joe, you're definitely renowned as a scholar of early harmonica styles.

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And so Sonny Terry would fit into that as we'll get into, yeah?

00:03:32.890 --> 00:03:51.171
Yes, I am very fascinated with early styles techniques, players, approaches to playing, and have committed a lot of time to the study of it, and fortunately I've not yet had to commit myself.

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.

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.

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.

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We also have Adam Sikori, who's the first time on the podcast.

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So Adam, you're originally from Poland and you're now based in Berlin, in Germany,

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yep?

00:04:13.689 --> 00:04:14.631
Yes, yes.

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I actually grew up in Germany, in Berlin.

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So you're someone who also plays some Sonny Terry style harmonica?

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Yeah.

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Watch your connection with Sonny Terry.

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Actually, Sonny was the first guy which I heard on harmonica, and he inspired me a lot.

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I always wanted to play like Sonny.

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I was practicing a lot of Sonny Terry stuff.

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So you play with an outfit called the Duke Joint Smokers.

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They're in Berlin, yeah, and lots of acoustic style.

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With Gigi De Chico, he's from Italy.

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Great to have you on, Adam.

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Thanks for joining and adding your expertise.

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Thank you.

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We'll start off talking about Sonny Terry's early life.

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So Sonny Terry was born on October the 24th, 1911, we think.

00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:23.714
I mean there's a little bit of dispute about that but it does seem to be pretty clear that that was his birthday I've seen that he was potentially born in 1912 so any takers on it not being October the 24th 1911 I think that's when he was

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born 1911 in North Carolina I

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think the location he was actually born in Greensboro Georgia but there has been talk about it being North Carolina but I do understand that from things I've researched that it is Greensboro Georgia I think Joe that's something that you're pretty confident as well as well yet

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I believe I've heard both places

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so yeah so so there's some you know differing reports about where he is born you know we've heard North Carolina we've heard Greensboro Georgia I think the census record from what I've seen does show the place in Greensboro Georgia but I guess that was that's what it was like back then right the records weren't what they are these days

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I think most importantly it's agreed that he grew up on a farm and

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So yeah, exactly.

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He grew up on a farm.

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So let's get into that early life because it had a really big impact on his career.

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So he grew up on a farm, as you're saying, in a small farming community, apparently around one of 10 children, I think.

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So did he have nine brothers and sisters do we know of?

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I'm not sure if he had a big family.

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I mean, I knew his father was called Ruben and Sonny just had the mishaps, which he did have.

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You know, he got blind when he was a young boy, you

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know, and so...

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He actually had two accidents, didn't he?

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So he actually lost sight in one eye and then a second accident to lose the sight in the second eye.

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I think the first accident was when he was age 11 and then the second accident when he was age 16.

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some pretty bad luck there.

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So apparently

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the first one I've read that he lost the sight in his first eye when he was beating out the rhythm with a stick which broke and hit him in the eye so he was playing music to Losing the first one and then the second one is he was just playing with a friend and he got hit in the eye with a sort of piece of iron and that's how he lost the second eye and he was registered blind right so he was you know officially blind I think he had very very partial sight in one eye

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There, I met Sonny, and he told me about different things.

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They're all stories about how he lost his sight and how it happened, or whatever it was, you know.

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He could see a little bit.

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There was a little bit of partial thing in the eye that he could not see.

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And he never said, to me, he said he was handicapped, but he said he could get on with life, you know, and

00:08:09.846 --> 00:08:11.166
that was nice.

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Did he sort of have to always have an escort with him to you know to help him around especially when he was going out on tour and everything obviously no

00:08:18.213 --> 00:08:57.259
not really i mean sonny did did his things you know i mean when he was in harlem and when he was with brownie the two of them looked after each other i think sonny um in the early days he had to work for the blind people he worked for some of these um places where he would work for the blind people and do this i'm talking about the 30s or late 20s or 30s or something like that and he would work for them and then when he couldn't find any work music took his thing you know so after that he just went out and did his thing you know

00:08:59.778 --> 00:09:29.945
so yeah so as you're saying he was blind so I think he grew up on a farm as you as you said Joe earlier on so it meant he couldn't work on the farm so that meant he sort of turned to music and then you know music became his outlet right so that was a obviously a critical thing and I think he was starting reputed again different stories about the age he started playing from what I've read he he sort of picked up his father his father played harmonica right Ruben as you say Paul so he picked up his harmonica age five and started messing around around.

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But then there's other stories that he maybe started playing at age eight.

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Have we got any more reliable information about what age he started?

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I think I got the information that I gathered from that Oak Publications instruction book.

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I think there was a bio in there that I got that stuff from, and that seems like it's probably more reliable because it came directly from Sonny himself and his own recollections, although it's also easy to imagine that he could have confused some things, too.

00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:12.705
But it's clear that he started playing at a young age.

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So his father did teach him initially.

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I mean, do we know how central was that?

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Did his father teach him a lot or was it just a few pointers?

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I

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just recall a very strong statement that Sonny said that he basically didn't even hear blues until he was about 18 years old.

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So he was probably hearing folk music music and reels and breakdowns old-timey stuff that his father was playing I seem to recall that that was what he was playing initially when he picked it up

00:10:52.216 --> 00:11:04.080
yeah and I think that's again a critical thing because as we'll get on to the early part of his career he very much got into the folk scene so he did start really as a folk harmonica player as you're saying there Joe he didn't hear blues until he was age 18.

00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:11.605
So, you know, that kind of, you know, the folk side of things was really crucial and must have obviously influenced his playing

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a lot.

00:11:23.535 --> 00:12:07.090
Okay, so he started, you know, he was playing around the farm, I think, you know, maybe, you know, doing barnyard animals, sort of a which was quite common back then in that sort of 1920s era right music and then imitating trains and you know that side of the harmonica playing and then he started going out playing with sort of string bands and a medicine show I believe and he started playing age 18 out in public and then learning from someone called Little John as well so when you're saying you heard blues for the first time was this with Deford Bailey Joe because he'd heard obviously Deford Bailey was on the radio regularly playing at the Grand Ole Opry so do you think that was the first time he'd heard blues?

00:12:08.129 --> 00:12:15.576
Well, either by the radio or some wind-up Victrola, that's possible.

00:12:15.596 --> 00:12:29.568
Or if he went to the local town and he heard musicians busking on the street, I would say those are the most likely possibilities, but I'm not aware of a specific incident.

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And of course, you know, he doesn't play like Defa Bailey too much apart from, you know, the Fox Chases and the Trains and Lost John type style playing.

00:12:38.096 --> 00:12:39.980
but he doesn't generally play like Deepford Bailey.

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But something else you'd mentioned to me, Joe, is that he probably heard Henry Whitter, who was one of the early harmonica players, right?

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And the Raincrawl Blues is a song that, for example, he recorded with

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Woody Guthrie.

00:12:52.967 --> 00:12:53.789
How do you sound?

00:12:53.809 --> 00:12:55.614
I'm not sure we are playing now.

00:13:09.826 --> 00:13:13.412
That was probably another early influence from the blues side of things as well.

00:13:13.873 --> 00:13:15.014
Henry Witter was the

00:13:15.095 --> 00:13:20.864
first to record the Fox Chase Lost John train imitation.

00:13:20.903 --> 00:13:26.092
And I believe if you listen to Henry Witter's Fox Chase...

00:13:42.241 --> 00:14:11.631
you can hear a lot of similarities between that and the way that sunny played it And Henry Witter's Foxchase, the record, it was widely sold and he recorded it two or three times.

00:14:11.932 --> 00:14:21.181
So it's easy to imagine that he heard it on a record, on a 78 record, if not at home, then somebody who had the record player.

00:14:21.201 --> 00:14:26.765
So Adam, do you know any more about Sonny's early developments in these years?

00:14:27.361 --> 00:14:36.230
Actually, I don't know so much about Sonny's life, but I think he stole a lot or took a lot from the first Sonny Boy Williamson.

00:14:36.770 --> 00:14:39.953
What Sonny plays is sometimes very similar to the first Sonny Boy Williamson.

00:14:40.533 --> 00:14:57.309
Yeah, so it's interesting from a recording point of view because we'll get into Sonny's starting his recording career shortly, but when Sonny made his first recording in 1937, I understand that was six months after John Lee Williamson had made his first recording.

00:14:57.570 --> 00:15:03.422
Thank you.

00:15:14.881 --> 00:15:18.528
Those two were real pioneers of getting harmonica recordings out.

00:15:18.548 --> 00:15:20.530
Henry Witter was before that, George, you mentioned.

00:15:20.772 --> 00:15:28.443
But starting to think about some of the real giants of the harmonica, those two were pretty close from releasing their first recordings.

00:15:29.024 --> 00:15:34.494
And also Jordan Webb, the first harmonica player from Brownie McGee.

00:15:46.498 --> 00:15:48.419
was very similar to Sonny Terry, actually.

00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:49.360
That's right.

00:15:50.441 --> 00:15:52.302
I mean, Sonny was different to everybody.

00:15:52.743 --> 00:16:04.533
He was from the pediment area, and all the players wanted to play like John Lee, but Sonny Terry was completely different to all those cats, you know?

00:16:04.573 --> 00:16:07.076
It was a sound that was different.

00:16:07.775 --> 00:16:20.349
All the cats today want to play like Little Walter, Big Walter, but Sonny, he was playing the country blues, and the country blues came into the blues, the real blues, you know, the Chicago blues.

00:16:20.649 --> 00:16:22.110
Sonny was completely different.

00:16:22.471 --> 00:16:28.599
His model heroes, I would say, would be Noah Lewis, Peg Leg Sam.

00:16:33.784 --> 00:16:43.998
I ain't gonna make you look...

00:16:44.833 --> 00:16:48.261
And that's where Sonny got his style from.

00:16:48.643 --> 00:16:53.354
But he came in with an individual style to be his own.

00:16:53.374 --> 00:16:56.299
And that, to me, was fantastic.

00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:03.902
So let's get on to Sonny then starting to, you know, make a name for himself and get around playing.

00:17:03.942 --> 00:17:09.994
So the first person he started playing with, you know, that we're aware of in more serious ways, is Blind Boy Fuller.

00:17:10.496 --> 00:17:14.765
So Sonny's father and brother died both in, I think, in 1932.

00:17:15.425 --> 00:17:47.817
and then this sort of prompted Sonny then to move in with his brother in Waynesboro North Carolina and that's where he met Blind Boy Fuller and he started busking on the street with him and then Blind Boy Fuller and Sonny Terry then went to they moved to Durham where there was quite a good blues scene as I understand it and here you know there's other blues musicians such as Reverend Davis and so he was playing with you know with Blind Boy Fuller and they made their first recording in 1937 together they traveled up to New York the clip of the recording I'll put in at this point is what I have is reputes the first recording of Sonny Terry.

00:17:48.298 --> 00:17:50.904
I don't know if definitely it is, but I've got that from somewhere else.

00:18:01.986 --> 00:18:03.106
So

00:18:05.548 --> 00:18:10.032
yeah, so he started playing with Blind Boy Fuller and that's really what he's got his career started.

00:18:10.232 --> 00:18:13.736
Anyone can add anything about Blind Boy Fuller and his partnership with him?

00:18:14.237 --> 00:18:22.103
As Adam said, it was Jordan Webb that was playing with some of these cats that were playing out there at that time.

00:18:22.463 --> 00:18:27.768
But Terry had this unique sound with a whooping hollering it got on the gig.

00:18:28.388 --> 00:18:37.258
And that was because they were all playing on the street And when they were playing on the street, the loudest sound made the most perfect sound.

00:18:37.958 --> 00:18:44.345
And Sonny was shouting and hooping and hollering with Blind Boy Fuller with that big guitar.

00:18:44.786 --> 00:18:46.126
And that's what made the sound.

00:18:46.426 --> 00:18:48.229
So he got the gig with that.

00:18:48.869 --> 00:18:51.873
And he also worked with all the blind guys.

00:18:52.453 --> 00:18:56.478
Most of them cats on the east side were blind.

00:18:57.098 --> 00:19:01.903
Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Blake, Blind Gary Davis, Blind Willie McLean.

00:19:01.903 --> 00:19:07.190
tell you know we're talking about them guys you know they were they were killers you know anything to

00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:07.509
add about

00:19:07.569 --> 00:19:07.930
blind boy

00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:35.627
fuller i don't have anything to add about blind boy fuller other than trying to make clear that he was a big recording star at the time so it was definitely a boost for sunny terry but i do want to step back and mention that sunny terry had that great honor and privilege of playing as part of john hammond's spiritual to swing concert in 1938 in New York City.

00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:39.340
That was a really big career boost for Sonny.

00:19:39.874 --> 00:19:40.835
Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:40.875 --> 00:19:41.996
So let's get on to that now.

00:19:42.056 --> 00:19:48.060
As you say, you played at Carnegie Hall in 1938 in part of the Spirituals to Swing concert.

00:19:48.201 --> 00:19:53.385
So this was one of those, you know, showing the black artists in this setting.

00:19:53.445 --> 00:19:53.945
Correct.

00:19:54.666 --> 00:19:54.826
And

00:19:54.866 --> 00:20:01.952
the majority of the musicians that took part in this were city musicians.

00:20:02.133 --> 00:20:13.365
So it was pretty cool that Sonny Terry, who probably was the most rural, most country of the whole So from

00:20:13.405 --> 00:20:17.311
what I read, I understand it was supposed to be Blind Boy Fuller who was playing in that show.

00:20:17.873 --> 00:20:23.821
But then Blind Boy Fuller shot his wife and therefore was arrested and then he couldn't do the gig.

00:20:23.862 --> 00:20:26.125
So then Sonny Terry was asked to do it in his place.

00:20:26.498 --> 00:20:27.239
You heard the same?

00:20:27.739 --> 00:20:27.979
I have

00:20:28.038 --> 00:20:39.669
not heard that, but I think they were very wise to pick Sonny Terry because he definitely had the groove happening and the pyrotechnics happening.

00:20:39.689 --> 00:20:52.820
I think anybody who seen him at the Spirituals to Swing concert thought of the harmonica very differently before they heard him and seen him and after they heard him and seen him.

00:20:53.441 --> 00:20:55.123
Yeah, and so there was big names there.

00:20:55.163 --> 00:21:04.873
Count Basie was there and the idea was to you know introduce black music to a white audience so this is predominantly a white audience which in 1938 was probably very early for that right I think

00:21:04.972 --> 00:21:37.115
there was two stories I think yeah Blind Boy Fuller he took sick or he died or whatever and there was another story from John Hammond and he had said that they originally wanted the whole thing for the spiritual to swing was Robert Johnson and then the second guy I was Blind Boy Fuller, and then Blind Boy Fuller took sick, and I think he died, and then Sonny came in and did the spiritual swing, you know?

00:21:37.537 --> 00:21:40.682
And I have them recordings, and they're fantastic, you know?

00:21:40.722 --> 00:21:45.771
Those recordings are available, and there's two recordings on there on the early recordings for Sonny.

00:21:45.852 --> 00:21:48.277
One of them's called Mountain Blues, where he plays solo.

00:22:04.577 --> 00:22:09.442
And there's another recording called The New John Henry, where he's playing with a washboard player.

00:22:24.865 --> 00:22:29.050
believe this washboard play was sort of you know accompanied there and helped him on stage yep

00:22:29.411 --> 00:22:32.914
an albino guy called bull city red yeah bull

00:22:32.994 --> 00:23:06.924
city red that's him that's him did you mention this was a big break for sonny and it allowed him to then get on the new york folk scene right and that established him in new york and i think at some point shortly after he moved to new york and he never moved away from there is that right i believe so great so so you mentioned the the the piedmont style paul so tell us about that um you know it's an east coast guitar blues style syncopated i understand it a bit ragtime and and so so what about the the piedmont style um you know and sunny playing that style of harmonica and blues

00:23:06.984 --> 00:23:20.876
well that was it i started off i don't want to tell my story quickly but i got i heard a harmonica player called john mayall and then backtracked and got i heard some stuff by sunny terry and And that was it.

00:23:21.317 --> 00:23:23.220
My whole life changed after that.

00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:27.483
I didn't go to the Chicago Players, funnily enough.

00:23:28.164 --> 00:23:33.250
I went right across to the Pediment on the East Coast and I started listening to Sonny.

00:23:33.590 --> 00:23:43.000
And not just only Sonny, I listened to the Pediment Players, the Ragtime Players, Piano Players, Guitar Players, Violin Players.

00:23:43.421 --> 00:23:44.843
That's where I got my style.

00:23:45.462 --> 00:23:54.355
And I think that's where Sonny got that skippy beat, that rhythm, That beautiful rhythm that he had and it was a different sound.

00:23:54.395 --> 00:23:59.003
It was, for me personally, he could play it on his own.

00:23:59.023 --> 00:24:01.127
He didn't need accompaniment.

00:24:14.145 --> 00:24:18.609
And I didn't call it blues music, I called it hillbilly music.

00:24:19.109 --> 00:24:21.551
And that's where it came from, for me, personally.

00:24:22.212 --> 00:24:23.554
Let's go on to Brown and McGee now.

00:24:23.614 --> 00:24:28.659
So he's a long-time partner and probably the most famous blues duo partner that has been.

00:24:28.699 --> 00:24:40.288
He first met Brown in 1939, performed with him in 1940 for the first time, and then Blind Boy Fuller died in 1941, and then Brown and McGee wrote a song.

00:24:40.328 --> 00:24:42.109
He was sort of a fan of Blind Boy Fuller.

00:24:42.130 --> 00:24:44.692
He was labelled Blind Boy Fuller No.

00:24:44.712 --> 00:24:49.156
2 and that's when Brownie came in to replace Blind Boy Fuller as Sonny's partner.

00:24:49.397 --> 00:24:50.117
He hated that

00:24:50.178 --> 00:24:50.419
name.

00:24:50.638 --> 00:24:51.599
Blind Boy Fuller 2?

00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:53.402
Yeah, he hated that name.

00:24:53.682 --> 00:24:54.803
Brownie hated that name.

00:24:55.403 --> 00:24:56.085
He told me that.

00:24:56.806 --> 00:25:11.401
So Brownie also had his health issues so he had polio when he was young which gave him a limp so they both had their health issues and they met in the Durham scene earlier than that and they started recording together for the first time in 1941.

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:19.169
So I understand this first recording with brownie he had there was two harmonicas brownie had another harmonica playing already with him

00:25:20.048 --> 00:25:44.873
this was jordan webb on the harmonica the second one i think jordan webb was older than sonny taylor Sonny Terry took a lot of licks from him.

00:25:46.318 --> 00:25:47.584
They are very similar to each other.

00:25:47.604 --> 00:25:52.221
I think Sonny, of course, Sonny was better, technically.

00:25:52.738 --> 00:26:06.578
There were a few recordings of Jordan Webb, but after Blind Boy Fuller died, Brownie came on the scene and then Sonny was the harp player of Blind Boy Fuller.

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.305
So he dropped Jordan Webb and put Sonny in.

00:26:10.345 --> 00:26:12.949
And I think Sonny was more or less...

00:26:13.761 --> 00:26:23.497
I'm not saying a better player, but he had the name as well, you know, so that got him the grade, you know, so he jumped in on that and that was it.

00:26:23.797 --> 00:26:27.221
So Sonny and Brownie became a permanent duo in 1942.

00:26:27.281 --> 00:26:27.883
Play it

00:26:28.403 --> 00:26:32.250
for Brownie and see how she's talking.

00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:35.134
Play it for Brownie.

00:26:41.890 --> 00:27:09.534
they played together for getting on for 40 years and they did loads of recording together and but they didn't just play together they also did some solo stuff as well but I mean obviously they were they were a huge thing together and a huge thing on the folk scene so you know Sonny had got into that was he playing this with Brownie you know he was playing with Pete Seeger and you know he played with Woody Guff we've already touched on and so any more about this this New York folk scene

00:27:09.874 --> 00:27:49.635
well they moved to New York like you said 40s and they hooked in with Hoodie Ledbetter and all them cats you know and that was the folk scene out there Greenwich Village that was the start of Bob Dylan and everybody there they were all coming to see these cats you know and that was the different style that East Coast style they moved it across to New York they were playing this fantastic music that created a different sound you know that was Woody Guthrie But they were all in this sort of, it was a weird sort of system they were in, the whole lot of them.

00:27:49.977 --> 00:27:52.599
They went to politics, they went into this, they went into that.

00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.142
And I knew Larry Adler.

00:27:55.782 --> 00:27:59.946
And he used to knock about with Sonny and Brownie and Leadbelly, believe it or not,

00:28:00.007 --> 00:28:00.627
in the 40s.

00:28:01.148 --> 00:28:04.893
Big thing about that folk scene is, you know, they were doing protest songs, right?

00:28:04.913 --> 00:28:06.354
So Woody Guthrie, obviously.

00:28:06.374 --> 00:28:07.095
That's right.

00:28:07.115 --> 00:28:11.440
So Woody Guthrie, a very famous folk musician who did protest songs.

00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:11.759
Oh, that's right.

00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:17.261
about fascist music, This Machine Kills Fascists as Woody Guffey had written on his guitar.

00:28:17.602 --> 00:28:18.001
That's right.

00:28:18.321 --> 00:28:20.044
Woody Guffey was a huge influence on Bob Dylan.

00:28:20.064 --> 00:28:25.929
So all those protest songs, I mean, I haven't heard too many protest songs from Sonny and Brownie.

00:28:26.169 --> 00:28:27.951
Did they do any protest songs themselves?

00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:29.051
Sure, they did

00:28:29.152 --> 00:28:29.731
some.

00:28:29.751 --> 00:28:32.054
I couldn't give you a big list.

00:28:32.394 --> 00:28:37.179
I've always thought of Brownie as being a really brilliant songwriter.

00:28:37.199 --> 00:28:49.790
I personally think Sonny wrote a few good songs, but I think Brownie was a lot more prolific and he seemed to be a lot more active in the civil rights scene

00:28:49.851 --> 00:29:06.148
yeah no interesting

00:29:06.169 --> 00:29:18.582
that side of things yeah so this was in the 40s you know we did some interesting recordings with woody guffrey as well and you sent me a great one joe of him doing a version of Lost John, where Woody Guffrey's sort of telling the story of Lost John, which is interesting.

00:29:19.823 --> 00:29:27.111
I'm going to tell you the story about old Lost John.

00:29:27.131 --> 00:29:35.159
Lost John was a boy that got loose from a chain gang down in Louisiana.

00:29:35.179 --> 00:29:37.340
About 16 butthounds took an after him.

00:29:38.817 --> 00:29:40.019
So,

00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:47.867
yeah, so this folk scene, you know, that's how Sonny and Brownie really got their name right and how they started becoming popular on a mass level.

00:29:47.968 --> 00:29:53.234
You know, not blues, but in folk, so it's quite an interesting angle that probably a lot of people are not aware of, yeah.

00:29:53.595 --> 00:30:03.006
To me, in that period, I think they were the greatest of songwriters in that period of that sort of folk era.

00:30:06.189 --> 00:30:06.750
Where the cotton was flowing

00:30:19.362 --> 00:30:21.344
They didn't push it too much.

00:30:21.384 --> 00:30:22.625
They just did their thing.

00:30:23.224 --> 00:30:33.673
What Sonny told me, I spent a bit of time with him and we were talking and he said, I only sing what I sing and play what I play and feel what I feel, you know.

00:30:34.315 --> 00:30:35.776
And it's the same as Brownie.

00:30:36.457 --> 00:30:41.800
They would just play something and Brownie would back him up and that was it.

00:30:42.281 --> 00:30:47.566
And Sonny would play something or Brownie would play something and they would just back each other up.

00:30:47.987 --> 00:30:49.327
And that was real bliss.

00:30:49.327 --> 00:30:52.415
and real feeling for me personally.

00:30:52.695 --> 00:30:54.761
That's what I got from them guys, you know.

00:30:54.801 --> 00:30:56.787
Not trying to be...

00:30:57.468 --> 00:31:00.075
Blues is not to be rehearsed, I don't think.

00:31:00.476 --> 00:31:01.920
It just has to happen.

00:31:02.340 --> 00:31:04.244
Off the cuff most of the time, you know.

00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:07.291
So some interesting things that they did as well.

00:31:07.352 --> 00:31:15.579
So Sonny Terry was in a Broadway show called Finian's Rainbow in 1947 and 48 for 725 performances.

00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:20.703
So he played a song and he played, I think, one song in the show and, you know, on Broadway, right?

00:31:20.743 --> 00:31:24.788
So a big deal for him, I guess, and a nice steady source of income.

00:31:25.407 --> 00:31:25.688
Well,

00:31:26.128 --> 00:32:08.992
that whole story, when Sonny always talks about it on his recordings, you know, he said he's doing Hooten the Blues and they all say where did you get that Sonny and he said oh man I got this thing called Hooting the Blues from Finian's Rainbow and this guy asked me to come up and do the show and I know who the guy was and it was Pete Seeger he introduced him to that show and Finian's Rainbow and they said Sonny you've got to play the same way every night Sonny and this was the boss man Des Sonny said, oh I've got to play the same Hoop and Holland, the same notes every night.

00:32:09.532 --> 00:32:17.541
They kept on going on about it and going on about it and Sonny said I can't do that the same way every night but you've got to play it the same way every night man.

00:32:18.202 --> 00:32:22.166
And Sonny turned around and he said, how much are you paying me for this man?

00:32:22.186 --> 00:32:28.373
And he up and told him and he said, oh yes, I can play it the same way every night.

00:32:29.114 --> 00:32:30.415
Nice,

00:32:30.435 --> 00:32:30.736
yeah.

00:32:31.457 --> 00:32:43.330
So that's a great thing to him and then later on I think in the 50s both Sonny and Brownie were in another Broadway show so yes he was He had his time on the stage playing music.

00:32:43.991 --> 00:32:51.042
Getting into the 50s, you know, he was playing with Brown, who's this air from 1942, you know, as a sort of official duo.

00:32:51.383 --> 00:32:54.387
But again, he played with other people and also did some great solo stuff.

00:32:54.407 --> 00:33:00.958
So he does a great album called Sonny Terry Harmonica and Vocal Solos, where he plays, you know, solos and he's singing.

00:33:00.978 --> 00:33:02.279
And that's a great album.

00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:04.343
It's got some really beautiful songs on

00:33:04.784 --> 00:33:04.824
it.

00:33:04.844 --> 00:33:07.887
Oh, hallelujah, amen.

00:33:11.394 --> 00:33:20.238
This

00:33:20.337 --> 00:33:21.641
is one of my favorite albums.

00:33:21.701 --> 00:33:24.348
Actually, Solitaire and his Washboard Band.

00:33:24.869 --> 00:33:25.972
I think it's from the 60s.

00:33:26.978 --> 00:33:28.741
Yeah, that's fantastic stuff.

00:33:29.122 --> 00:33:31.606
That's actually my favorite album of Sonny Terry.

00:33:31.626 --> 00:33:32.188
Fantastic.

00:33:33.651 --> 00:33:34.874
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:34.894 --> 00:33:35.935
I'm tired of this song.

00:33:36.317 --> 00:33:37.239
Oh, Sonny Jump.

00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.565
My nephew on the harmonica and Sonny Terry on the harmonica.

00:33:40.885 --> 00:33:42.288
Better known, Sonny Terry.

00:33:46.817 --> 00:33:49.763
Exciting

00:33:49.824 --> 00:34:08.262
washboard band, one string bass and Bones and Bones played JC Bowers, his nephew and he also played the second harmonica on this recording and I actually want to do the same I have a washboard player and One string bass player.

00:34:08.282 --> 00:34:09.965
I only need the bones player.

00:34:10.146 --> 00:34:11.427
Then I'm going to make a recording.

00:34:11.947 --> 00:34:12.248
Nice.

00:34:12.327 --> 00:34:14.670
Are you going to do Sonny Terry style for that or your own?

00:34:15.192 --> 00:34:15.992
Not too much.

00:34:16.072 --> 00:34:17.193
Maybe more my style.

00:34:17.574 --> 00:34:21.438
So Sonny, you know, he was doing his own thing as well as obviously playing with Brownie.

00:34:21.478 --> 00:34:25.583
And, you know, he went all around with Brownie and toured all around the world.

00:34:25.643 --> 00:34:29.047
Yeah, they went obviously across to Europe, you know, played in all sorts of places.

00:34:29.068 --> 00:34:29.128
I'm

00:34:33.693 --> 00:34:34.333
a worried man, long way from home.

00:34:36.034 --> 00:34:38.333
along with a honk.

00:34:44.577 --> 00:35:00.056
released, I think, in 1958, is an album, Paul, I know that you like, and it's the first album I heard of Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, and the first album I heard of Sonny was the Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee Sing album, which is a fantastic album, really high quality, but made on the Folkways

00:35:00.516 --> 00:35:09.306
label.

00:35:09.327 --> 00:35:11.710
Well, I

00:35:17.409 --> 00:35:19.333
All those songs are real gems, aren't they, Paul?

00:35:19.353 --> 00:35:20.516
I know you're a big fan of that album.

00:35:21.498 --> 00:35:25.146
Oh, man, that's the holy grail for me.

00:35:25.166 --> 00:35:36.952
I mean, I studied that album and I really, I just put myself into it for 12 years and studied Sonny's harp for 12 years on that.

00:35:37.634 --> 00:35:46.121
And then I came out, and once I say, you study one, then you can play them all, you know, or try to play them all.

00:35:46.362 --> 00:35:48.262
But you cannot master a master.

00:35:48.302 --> 00:35:57.331
That album was just, for me, just a beautiful album where acoustic harmonica, I mean, wow.

00:35:57.931 --> 00:36:03.215
You just, if you can get close to it, it's pretty cool, man.

00:36:03.597 --> 00:36:04.237
It's pretty cool.

00:36:04.577 --> 00:36:19.402
And all them folkways things, There was a recording which was equally as good that I listened to many times was with Big Bill Brunsey, Brownie McGee and Sonny Terry with Studs Terkel.

00:36:19.762 --> 00:36:25.233
And it was a recording that they did in 1958, just shortly after that.

00:36:25.572 --> 00:36:27.436
The stuff on there is just beautiful.

00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:48.887
Just to listen

00:36:48.967 --> 00:36:53.431
to it acoustically, I mean, it's just beautiful stuff.

00:36:53.751 --> 00:36:57.655
And then also in 1958, he played with Pete Seeger live at Carnegie Hall.

00:36:57.675 --> 00:36:58.255
He was back at Carnegie Hall.

00:36:58.255 --> 00:37:03.882
So Pete Seeger again, obviously a big folk musician, and Pete Seeger's playing banjo.

00:37:17.313 --> 00:37:21.458
Well, Pete Seeger, you know, he created all that folk stuff.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:31.092
He had all them shows that he did with all the different folk artists and blues artists on his show in the 50s, you know.

00:37:31.132 --> 00:37:35.177
He introduced Sonny to different things.

00:37:35.396 --> 00:37:38.661
Like I say, he got Sonny to do Finian's Rainbow.

00:37:39.170 --> 00:37:46.315
You've got to remember that Sonny and Brownie, they were more into the folk music, you know.

00:37:46.356 --> 00:38:00.248
They were folk, not just blues, not that Chicago or anything like that, but they were in really that folk side of the East Coast side, you know.

00:38:00.327 --> 00:38:03.371
So, I mean, that's where they came from, you know.

00:38:03.670 --> 00:38:10.119
Another really significant thing that happened, so in 1958, Sonny and Brownie toured the UK with the Chris Chris Borba, jazz band.

00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:13.650
So Chris Borba is sort of a trad jazz player in the UK

00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:17.623
at the time.

00:38:21.697 --> 00:38:30.304
and

00:38:30.626 --> 00:38:56.012
I believe that this played quite a significant part in bringing the blues to the British white audience and then led on to the whole British blues explosion which as we know was the British took the blues back to America and then it became really popular with the Rolling Stones etc so I think that tour from what I've read with Chris Barber was quite instrumental and that Sonny Terry was you know one of the guys that those British blues those young British blues players saw to really influence them towards the blues.

00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:59.711
Yeah, I mean, that was the whole thing.

00:38:59.731 --> 00:39:05.516
I mean, that created the whole R&B, the whole show.

00:39:05.536 --> 00:39:08.440
I mean, that whole thing of what happened.

00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:14.045
Sonny and Brownie, I mean, they were popular because they were enthusiastic.

00:39:14.144 --> 00:39:15.445
They played like a...

00:39:16.206 --> 00:39:17.668
They were great when they performed.

00:39:17.728 --> 00:39:18.748
They were a live act.

00:39:19.268 --> 00:39:22.211
It's like seeing Muddy or Big Walter or...

00:39:22.851 --> 00:39:27.056
When they entertained, they entertained, and that's what got the people, you know, so...

00:39:27.056 --> 00:39:47.858
that's what they did I saw them in their later years and I met up with them and talked to them and played with them actually and when they got up even in their later days they were still killing the crowd and that's what they did you know they went out and did the thing you know

00:39:48.077 --> 00:39:58.215
so when Sonny and Brownie came over to UK in 1958 so after that we had the you know the American Folk and Blues festivals which ran from I think 1966 to 1967.

00:40:12.001 --> 00:40:15.827
And obviously lots of players, Sonny Boy came over to Europe and Muddy Waters and...

00:40:16.088 --> 00:40:16.507
That's right.

00:40:17.048 --> 00:40:18.311
But I think they were a precursor to that.

00:40:18.331 --> 00:40:32.148
I don't know if, you know, if Sonny and Brownie playing with Chris Barber was, you know, maybe led on to that a little bit because they'd come across and maybe introduced the blues before that started happening and then, you know, there's a wider set of, you know, blues players coming over to Europe to play, so...

00:40:41.282 --> 00:40:41.501
MUSIC PLAYS

00:40:47.202 --> 00:40:48.643
Hey, what's happening, y'all?

00:40:48.663 --> 00:40:50.864
Jason Ritchie from Blue Moon Harmonicas.

00:40:51.405 --> 00:40:55.469
And I'm here to tell you that Blue Moon Harmonicas are the way.

00:40:55.929 --> 00:40:58.972
You can customize them yourself or you can get Tom to do them.

00:40:59.271 --> 00:41:00.974
The website is a rabbit hole.

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We're talking about custom combs, custom cover plates, throwbacks, refurbished pre-wars, double reed plates, anything you can imagine, aluminum, ABS, plastic, phenolic resin, wood, any kind of comb you want, any kind of So getting into the

00:41:20.030 --> 00:41:26.980
1960s, Sonny and Brownie were real staples on the music festival circuit.

00:41:27.981 --> 00:41:33.226
They played at the very first Newport Folk Festival, which was one of the most famous folk festivals in 1959.

00:41:33.927 --> 00:41:38.773
And so I think they were really out there on the music festival circuit.

00:41:40.835 --> 00:41:53.760
I woke up this morning Put on I

00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:57.643
can talk about some things leading up to it, which I think are significant.

00:41:58.344 --> 00:42:04.789
One of them is revisiting the first or that Folkways record.

00:42:04.829 --> 00:42:13.177
Paul had mentioned how powerful it was that Sonny could entertain an audience all by himself.

00:42:13.916 --> 00:42:15.117
He didn't need a band.

00:42:15.177 --> 00:42:17.039
He didn't need any accompaniment.

00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:17.681
to do that.

00:42:30.177 --> 00:42:33.760
I think that's a very significant thing to keep in mind.

00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:36.043
Not a lot of players could do that.

00:42:36.804 --> 00:42:39.108
Maybe Peg Leg Sam, yes.

00:42:39.869 --> 00:42:41.110
Rice Miller, yes.

00:42:41.972 --> 00:42:43.813
Maybe a little bit of Big Walter.

00:42:43.853 --> 00:42:46.858
But Sonny Terry could just do it.

00:42:47.362 --> 00:42:48.860
the gospel player.

00:42:49.204 --> 00:42:49.608
You're right.

00:42:50.014 --> 00:42:50.195
You're

00:42:50.237 --> 00:42:50.742
right, Joe.

00:42:51.170 --> 00:42:58.836
And so shortly after that, they were involved in the play Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

00:42:59.197 --> 00:43:10.567
And I recall hearing that in that time period between the shows, Sonny and Brownie had time to rehearse and create arrangements.

00:43:11.146 --> 00:43:55.157
So I think a lot of the recordings that they did in the 1950s are so brilliant because they took the time to work out vocal harmonies and how the song was going to lay and I think that that tour in the UK is really the result of both of those guys being highly polished as a duo and then of course we do know that they were both individually highly polished as solo performers so what you were getting by the time 1959 rolled around at the Newport Folk Festival are these two giants of blues blues folk music that was happening at the time.

00:43:55.358 --> 00:43:58.686
Just really, really powerful musicians.

00:44:12.130 --> 00:44:14.253
So we're getting into the 60s here.

00:44:14.793 --> 00:44:16.717
There's some great albums released through the 60s.

00:44:16.777 --> 00:44:20.764
So there's one called Sonny's Story, which is where he's playing with J.C.

00:44:20.864 --> 00:44:21.244
Burris.

00:44:21.664 --> 00:44:23.206
He's the second harmonica player.

00:44:23.668 --> 00:44:25.931

Sonny Terry retrospective with Paul Lamb, Joe Filisko and Adam Sikora

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