Sonny Boy Williamson II retrospective with Giles Robson and Jim Basinger

01:57 - Giles Robson returns to the podcast from his first appearance way back on episode 3 and has been busy as ever

02:38 - Giles released a duo album with John Primer in 2024: Ten Chicago Blues Classics, where John plays rhythm guitar

04:12 - When Neil first saw Giles perform he played the Sonny Boy song: My One Room Cabin

04:52 - The influence Sonny Boy has had on Giles’ career and comparisons with Little Walter

05:10 - Sonny Boy prompted Giles to play purely acoustic harmonica

06:42 - Sonny Boy was highly admired during his time and the positive write-up he received in the UK press at the time

07:31 - Sonny Boy dominated the European American Folk Blues tours

07:39 - Sonny Boy was received virtually no press coverage about him in the US

09:09 - Jim asks Giles aout a comparison between Walter Horton and Sonny Boy, and Big Walter may have taught Sonny Boy some harmonica

10:53 - Jim Basinger is a singer, guitar player and bandleader, who doesn’t play harmonica

11:48 - Jim is writing a biography on Sonny Boy, who Jim sees as a complete artist, not just a harmonica player

12:56 - It will be a comprehensive 500 page biography on Sonny Boy

13:53 - The biography is likely to be released either late 2025 or in 2026

14:27 - Jim is also looking at making a documentary film on Sonny Boy after the book is published

15:14 - There has previously been a biography released on Sonny Boy, by William (Bill) E Donoghue: Fessor Mojo's Don't Start Me To Talkin’

15:33 - The Bill Donoghue biography is reasonably short. Jim was involved with this and Jim’s book will be more in-depth

16:15 - Bill Donoghue had wanted to produce a documentary film on Sonny Boy

16:56 - Lillian McMurry, of Trumpet Records, had a headstone placed on Sonny Boy’s grave in 1980, which probably doesn’t show an accurate year of birth

17:08 - Gravestone correctly shows Sonny Boy died in 1965

17:59 - Sonny Boy was the youngest of 21 children, likely born in late 1912 or early 1913

18:58 - Brother was the one who named Sonny Boy ‘Rice’ due to Sonny Boy’s love of rice

19:55 - Sonny Boy probably lived until the age of 52

20:06 - Sonny Boy’s real name was Alex Miller (not Aleck, as written on his gravestone)

20:17 - Born in Glendora, Mississippi

20:25 - Sonny Boy ‘mis-represented’ facts about his life to the journalists who interviewed him and there isn’t reliable documentation showing the truth

21:16 - Family later moved to Money, Mississippi where Sonny Boy worked on a plantation until age 17, where conditions were very tough and 12 out of 18 people didn’t make it past age 18

22:50 - Sonny Boy looked older than he was due to his rough life and lifestyle, including alcohol abuse

23:59 - Didn’t have a strong concept of time or dates

24:27 - Jim tells of how Sonny Boy’s early life made him an habitual liar as he had to evade the law and other sources of trouble

24:55 - Started the life as a wandering musician after leaving the plantation at age 17, which made him an outlaw at that time in the US

27:27 - Travelled up to Memphis where met other musicians, including Howling Wolf, marrying his sister

27:59 - Sonny Boy has various recorded marriages and likely a child

28:27 - Travelled from town to town, centred around the town of Greenwood

30:08 - Teamed-up with Robert Lockwood, which led to Sonny Boy working on the King Biscuit Time radio show

30:47 - Sonny Boy reportedly stabbed a white man who was “trying to kill him” and he had to flee the Greenwood area

32:44 - Moved around until arriving at Helena, Arkansas, where the radio station KFFA was located, which ran the King Biscuit Time show

34:27 - Sonny Boy was on the King Biscuit Time show for about two years, and Pinetop Perkins played with him on that

35:01 - Sonny Boy played amplified harmonica on the King Biscuit Time show, and so was one of the earliest to play amplified harp

35:50 - Only recordings of Sonny Boy playing through a mic are his recordings on Chess records

36:23 - Sonny Boy probably recorded his amplified tracks with Chess using a Shure Slim X mic, which Giles doesn’t rate as a good harp mic

36:41 - Difference with Sonny Boy and Little Walter playing amplified is that Little Walter ‘played the amp’ whereas Sonny Boy just used the mic for amplification

37:40 - The early photo of Sonny boy holding a mic is from 1939 when he had a radio show in Illinois

38:10 - Jim thinks the Storyville recordings capture the best sound of Sonny Boy

39:44 - There are no known recordings of his playing of the King Biscuit Time radio show

40:27 - Sonny Boy falsely claimed to have recorded a Jimmy McCracklin in 1927 during the Wiesbaden concert in Germany

41:06 - On whether Sonny Boy ‘stole’ the name Sonny Boy Williamson from John Lee Williamson

41:35 - Giles talks about how the world was different and the circles Sonny Boy moved in weren’t always the most honest

42:39 - Jim emphasises the point that the alleged Sonny Boy stabbing had a profound effect upon Sonny Boy wanting to remain anonymous

43:30 - Sonny Boy reputedly knew John Lee Williamson from a young age

43:53 - John Lee Williamson released records first so was known through those and Rice Miller used the name Sonny Boy Williamson to market himself

44:55 - Memphis Slim told a story where another performer used his name, and also someone who used Little Walter’s name

45:36 - Sonny Boy also used various other names to perform under

46:21 - John Lee Williamson visited the KFFA radio station after he found out his name was being used and was given a radio show on there himself for a short time

47:43 - Made his first recordings in 1951 on the Trumpet label, when he was 38 years old

48:28 - First recording Sonny Boy made with Trumpet was destroyed in a fire but some of the original records were distributed and Jim has been searching for them to no avail

49:01 - Elmore James played on the first (lost) version of Eyesight To The Blind

49:48 - Other famous artists on Trumpet included Elmore James, with whom Sonny Boy recorded Dust My Broom

50:37 - The Sonny Boy Trumpet records sold quite well and the record label treated black artists fairly

51:05 - The owner of Trumpet records, Lillian McMurry, sold Sonny Boy’s contract to Chess records

51:34 - Giles likes that the Trumpet recordings and talks of how Sonny Boy was able to adapt himself to different audiences and scenarios

53:22 - Really leads the band on Trumpet records releases, whereas with Chess recordings he fits in perfectly with the accomplished city musicians

53:59 - Started recording with Checker Records (subsidiary of Chess) in 1955

54:19 - Sonny Boy was a big star from his Trumpet recordings, with hits including Nine Below Zero, Mighty Long Time and Dust My Broom

55:03 - Recorded several hits with the superstar band on the Chess Recordings, including Willie Dixon, Otis Spann, Muddy Waters

55:30 - The expansion of Black radio coincided with the success of Chess Records

56:16 - Adapted the song Good Evening Everybody, the theme tune to King Biscuit Time, on the first Chess recording session

56:49 - Don’t Start Me Talkin’ on the first Chess recording session is a very well constructed song

57:16 - Sonny Boy as a genius songwriter and he was able to read and write (not typical for people with his upbringing)

58:42 - Sonny Boy was very smart and determined to learn how to read, and the need to hide this due to the racism in society at that time

01:00:39 - Due to his success Sonny Boy had to act in ways where he would draw attention away from himself

01:00:55 - Sonny Boy’s music was heard by some white audiences, including Elvis

01:03:43 - Went over to Europe in 1963 and 1964 and had a huge influence on the British Blues boom

01:04:31 - Sonny Boy created a new style to play to the European audiences, who listened in silence like they did to highbrow music such as opera, classical and jazz music

01:06:16 - Memphis Slim really capitalised on the European blues scene and put on a classical pianist poise, while playing blues music, but Sonny Boy managed to overshadow him in the European American Folk Blues Festivals

01:07:56 - The recordings with the Yardbirds and Animals weren’t good, mainly because those bands were so young at that time

01:08:30 - The recording with the Chris Barber band was the only one of note with a British band during his stay there

01:09:19 - Despite the famous quote of: "those British boys want to play the blues real bad, and they do”, Sonny Boy still appreciated his time in England

01:09:40 - Jim backs-up the comment from Giles on how adaptable Sonny Boy was, with an ability to play in virtually any setting

01:10:43 - Sonny Boy made some recordings in the home of German photographer Stephanie Wiesand which show off his ability to play solo

01:11:59 - Wrote a lot of lyrics, but some were in collaboration with others, such as Elmore James, and who wrote them all is unclear

01:12:45 - Favourite Sonny Boy songs from the panel: Jim selects Help Me, which he played without overdubs

01:13:43 - Jim’s second choice is So Sad To Be Lonesome

01:14:45 - Neil’s favourites are You Killing Me and Don’t Lose Your Eye

01:15:17 - Giles favourites are Nine Below Zero and She’s My Baby

01:16:52 - The Sky Is Crying song on the Storyville label

01:18:32 - His characteristic style of bowler hat, case and umbrella

01:18:51 - The black blues musicians were given a level of respect in Europe that they didn’t receive in their homeland

01:19:19 - Sonny Boy was on British TV a lot in the 1960s

01:19:34 - Dressed with the bowler hat from way before visited England

01:20:12 - Well known for playing the Hohner 364 diatonic with the extra low octave and played with a harp in his mouth

01:20:32 - Giles demonstrates Bye Bye Bird and the fact that it’s a riff and not just a rhythm

01:21:11 - The extended range diatonic was Sonny Boy’s USP, and Hohner made some for him in different keys

01:21:26 - The difference in the harmonica techniques of Sonny Boy and Little Walter included Sonny Boy being rhythmical and Little Walter more melodic

01:22:14 - Giles demonstrates a riff from Don’t Start Me Talking

01:22:43 - Giles thinks Sonny Boy still sounds fresh today, whereas Little Walter has a 1950s sound

01:23:20 - How Sonny Boy influenced The Beatles to use the harmonica on their recordings via the harmonica playing of Delbert McClinton

01:25:04 - Sonny Boy played with lots of big acts in his time in England, including Rod Stewart, Joe Cocker and The Moody Blues

01:25:42 - Van Morrison’s third most performed live songs is Help Me

01:26:02 - After successful time in England he returned to the US after his visa had expired, but he also knew he was approaching the end of his life

01:27:00 - Initially went back to Chicago and then to Helena and then travelled to Alabama where he possibly took part in the civil rights movement there

01:28:08 - Returned to Helena to say his goodbyes

01:28:15 - Played his last gig at a house party in Greenwood

01:29:16 - Robbie Robertson from the band met Sonny Boy a few weeks before he died and recounts the story on a video available on YouTube and who this might have impacted Bob Dylan’s harmonica playing if Sonny Boy had joined The Band

01:31:11 - Cause of death was put down as heart attack, but that isn’t confirmed

01:31:32 - Lillian McMurry had headstone placed on his grave in 1980

01:31:40 - There was some celebration of his life after he passed away

01:32:55 - Sonny Boy is buried in Tutwiler, Mississippi, at the Whitfield Baptist Church Cemetery

01:33:22 - When Jim visited the gravestone had been knocked over and was broken and Jim had it put back in place

01:33:50 - Sonny Boy was well loved

01:34:04 - His wife Maddy stuck with Sonny Boy despite his shortcomings

01:34:26 - Was elected to the Blues Hall of Fame in the first year of balloting in 1980