Oct. 10, 2025

Shane Sager interview

Shane Sager joins me on episode 144. Shane is from Boston. In his early teens, a hand injury forced him to give up drumming, so he turned to the harmonica and never looked back. At Berklee College of Music he studied drums, as harmonica wasn’t offered, but left after two years to focus fully on the harmonica, studying with top teachers — especially Mike Turk, who helped him shape his chromatic playing. In his early twenties Shane performed with Sting, later joining his touring band in 2019 an...

Shane Sager joins me on episode 144.

Shane is from Boston. In his early teens, a hand injury forced him to give up drumming, so he turned to the harmonica and never looked back. At Berklee College of Music he studied drums, as harmonica wasn’t offered, but left after two years to focus fully on the harmonica, studying with top teachers — especially Mike Turk, who helped him shape his chromatic playing.

In his early twenties Shane performed with Sting, later joining his touring band in 2019 and going on to travel the world with him for six years.

He now continues to perform and record with various acts and has a couple of albums of his own coming out soon. An avid writer, he publishes on Substack and released his first harmonica book, Beyond Breath, in 2025, with two more in the pipeline.

Links:

Shane’s Substack: https://shanesager.substack.com/

Shane's book 'Beyond Breath': https://tinyurl.com/5heaf9tw

North Carolina Harp Fest: https://www.ncharmonica.com/

Videos:

Shane’s YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0_bbSLOzrEFkvFCWiPvWahu0O_PQpoOx&si=XPeZ_DtDCvHdjf1n

Shape of My Heart with Sting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jPFdg4CNss&list=PL0_bbSLOzrEFkvFCWiPvWahu0O_PQpoOx

Playing with Sting at Carnegie Hall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AW8uIFxeAk&list=PL0_bbSLOzrEFkvFCWiPvWahu0O_PQpoOx

Playing with Sting at Time’s Square: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se1HT8F2c2k

Sting and Stevie Wonder playing ‘Fragile’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPjj8edvjgM

Shane playing at SPAH 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldhIDlz5TeA

Bill Barrett playing Sunny Side of the Street: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_EW85IYO3w

Liam Ward interview with Shane: https://www.learntheharmonica.com/post/sting-harmonica-player-shane-sager-interview

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com

Support the show

01:30 - Shane is from Boston and still living there now at age 31 with lots going on musically there

01:59 - Always dreamed of going to the Berkless College of Music and fulfilled that dream

02:34 - First instrument was drums, which Shane studied at Berklee as harmonica was not permitted

02:46 - Was into music from a young age and had a wide range of musical taste with input from family

03:14 - Started playing harmonica age 14 after breaking hand badly and having to give up the drums

03:36 - A teacher (Mr Rose) at school was into blues and put Shane onto the harmonica

04:17 - Blues music was first time Shane became aware of the structure of the music

04:55 - Playing the drums first influenced Shane to play the harmonica rhythmically

05:15 - The impact of the first instrument that people play

05:44 - Drums was fun to practise, something which Shane tries to bring into his harmonica teaching

06:25 - Shane’s early learnings of the harmonica was from YouTube, with Adam Gussow and Ronnie Shellist

06:51 - Getting a face-to-face teacher was critical in Shane’s harmonica development, with Mike Turk his first teacher

08:18 - Also had lessons with Annie Raines, with Annie and Mike Turk both based in Boston

08:39 - Shane started playing diatonic age 14 and chromatic age 16, with Mike turning him on to the chromatic

08:44 - James Cotton was a big influence and that led Shane to seek Annie Raines out as a teacher

09:25 - The contrast of learning blues harmonica with Annie Raines and jazz chromatic with Mike Turk

09:50 - Shane has worked hard to bridge the gap between the diatonic and chromatic harmonicas, with people saying he plays the “chromatic very diatonically”

10:16 - Chromatic playing heavily influenced by Stevie Wonder, and also Mike Turk’s bluesy use of the chromatic (not in third position)

10:47 - Influence of James Cotton and Paul Delay on Shane’s diatonic playing

11:26 - Shane conducted an academic thesis on James Cotton when he was in high school, studying his style deeply

12:10 - Paul DeLay is Shane’s favourite diatonic blues player with his unique and unpredictable style

13:48 - Decided to curtail his Berklee studies to pursue his harmonica career, which was in more demand than his drumming

14:42 - Asked if he could study harmonica at Berklee and they refused, saying the harmonica was ‘not a real instrument’

15:40 - Also had lessons with Rob Paparozzi

15:46 - Started life as a pro harmonica player around age 20, playing with different artists, teaching and appearing at festivals

16:51 - Attended numerous harmonica workshops at this time, which were an important part of his learning

17:18 - Spent some time living in Los Angeles and Austin

18:14 - Shane first played with Sting in 2015 at a charity gig using Berklee students with other performances following before becoming a member of his touring band in 2019

19:12 - Sting is one of the mainstream artists who likes to use harmonica in his music

19:34 - Was asked to play with Sting again in 2016, this time at the iconic Carnegie Hall

20:13 - In 2018 played a new year’s eve Time’s Square gig with Sting with a TV audience of 30 million, playing Brand New Day

20:43 - In 2019 was asked to be a part of Sting’s touring band, which lasted until 2025

21:06 - What is felt like to be part of Sting’s band and the massive amount of preparation Shane undertook before starting the tour

21:52 - Shane’s role in the band was the the top line instrument dancing around Sting’s voice

22:40 - Sting has used various harmonica players as guest appearances, including Brendan Power, William Galison, Larry Adler and Toots Thielemans

23:02 - Shane was the first harmonica player to hold a full time role in Sting’s band

23:26 - Sting has been a fan of harmonica since he heard Paul Butterfield’s East West album

23:47 - Shane learnt several saxophone parts from Sting’s songs on harmonica

24:15 - Had to work hard to adapt the harmonica to the songs where it didn’t naturally fit, such as Russians

25:03 - Toured ten months out of the year with Sting, which didn’t leave Shane a lot of time to prepare songs to perform

25:23 - How parts the harmonica parts were assigned in the band

26:10 - Sting would let Shane know if the part he was playing wasn’t what he wanted

27:03 - The Carnegie Hall gig was a duo with Sting, when Shane was only 21 or 22 years old, was an overwhelming moment for Shane

27:54 - Was in Sting’s touring band for six years, playing 500 shows in 50 countries

28:23 - Sting is currently working on a trio gig, but Shane would welcome playing with Sting in the future, but after six years he is grateful for the time he had

29:16 - Delinquent Dedication is an article Shane wrote about his time on the road

29:47 - Still does one-off shows with Sting as part of the ‘Sting-alumni’

30:16 - Made a good living touring with Sting

30:43 - Playing with Sting has also given Shane a great reputation as a harmonica player and how he’s built on that

31:06 - Appeared on some soul albums (not released as yet) playing chromatic, including PJ Morton and Gene Noble

31:37 - Shane is also doing a lot of teaching, which is something he’s always wanted to do

32:06 - Teaching at the North Carolina Harp Fest in October 2025

32:59 - Feels there is a gap in teaching the chromatic in a more accessible way in order to attract more diatonic players to it

33:31 - Still teaches diatonic and still loves to play diatonic

34:12 - Approach to chromatic is using pentatonic scales to sound bluesy with a gritty Stevie Wonder sound

34:45 - Doesn’t teach a Toots Thielemans approach to playing chromatic as that can intimidate students and emphasises making learning the chromatic fun

36:06 - Mike Turk and Bill Barrett were big influences on Shane’s chromatic playing

36:47 - Draws inspiration from outside the harmonica from players who aren’t blues or jazz players, especially microtonal (such as slide guitar)

37:56 - Shane is a keen writer, has a Substack site of his articles and released a harmonica related book this year: Beyond Breath

38:55 - Took a suitcase full of books on his tour with Sting

39:34 - When returned from touring with Sting started his Substack which many people know more about than Shane’s Sting gig

40:18 - Publisher approached Shane about writing a book after seeing his Substack articles

40:49 - Beyond Breath is more of a holistic approach to playing the harmonica rather than an instructional book

41:15 - Shane is working on his second book at the moment

41:25 - Shane advocates a rounded life and drawing inspiration from many sources and feeding that into your harmonica playing

41:54 - Recommends a book called Daily Rituals by Mason Curry

42:51 - Thinks of improvising music as a written paragraph

43:30 - Believes that consistency is much more important than motivation in regular music practise

44:30 - Shane believes that just five minutes a day can turn you in a good harmonica player, and that everyone has time if you have realistic goals

46:21 - Ten minute question

48:50 - Hohner endorser: plays mainly Golden Melody diatonic, which was his first harmonica. Usually has these tuned to compromise tuning

49:24 - Also plays Marine Bands Special 20s

49:48 - Hohner 280C is chromatic of choice, which Boaz Kim set-up to make the reeds more bendable

51:07 - Amps: When played with Sting mainly played through the PA using a little reverb

51:15 - Mainly uses a Greg Huemann Ultimate 58 mic

51:35 - For amplified blues harmonica uses a Memphis Mini amp using a Greg Huemann Ultimate 57 mic

52:01 - Uses a Lone Wolf Harp Break pedal for a blues sound

52:11 - Some of diatonics provided by Blue Moon, as well as Kinya Pollard (who has just released the overblow booster)

52:48 - Has used overblows for sometime, and admires the modern players who use overblows so effectively

53:45 - Advantage of being both a diatonic overblow player and a chromatic player

54:36 - Shane is working on releasing his own album, an instrumental of old soul music

55:47 - Also developing another album at this time: jazz with amplified harmonica

56:04 - And working on two more books: one of which is 365 days of practise for a harmonica player

57:05 - Has playing a little drums again recently and is giving a workshop at the North Carolina Harp Fest on how to play rhythm on the harmonica

57:39 - Does still play some drums but prioritises playing harmonica over drums

WEBVTT

00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.439
Shane Sager joins me on episode one hundred and forty four.

00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:05.120
Shane is from Boston.

00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:11.199
In his early teens a hand injury forced him to give up drumming so he turned to the harmonica and never looked back.

00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:24.800
At Berkeley College of Music he studied drums as harmonica wasn't offered, but left after two years to focus fully on the harmonica, studying with top teachers, especially Mike Turk, who helped him shape his chromatic playing.

00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:35.600
In his early twenties, Shane performed with Sting, later joining his touring band in 2019 and going on to travel the world with him for six years.

00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:42.880
He now continues to perform and record with various acts and has a couple of albums of his own coming out soon.

00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:52.079
An avid writer he publishes on Substack and released his first harmonica book, Beyond Breath, in 2025, with two more in the pipeline.

00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.039
This podcast is sponsored by Zidalharmonicas.

00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:04.879
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.zidal1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidalharmonicas.

00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.239
Hello, Shane Sager, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:27.599
Thank you so much for having me, Neil.

00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:28.400
Appreciate it.

00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:30.480
Pleasure and great to speak to you, Shane.

00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.599
So you're speaking to us, I think, from Boston, where you grew up?

00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:35.599
Yep, Boston, born and raised.

00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:39.599
My parents are originally from a town outside of uh Boston called Malden.

00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.879
They came into downtown when my sister and I were born.

00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.560
And yeah, I'm 31 now.

00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.000
So I've uh this has just been home for as long as I can remember.

00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:49.439
Yep, it's a good place.

00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:50.640
So quite close to New York.

00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:55.200
So, and of course, a good music scene, the the the Berkeley uh School of Music, right?

00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:56.719
Which you which you went to as well.

00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.799
So uh lots going on around there musically.

00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:06.799
Yeah, Berkeley was uh it was funny because when I was in high school, I would take the train uh every day, and the train always went by Berkeley.

00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:14.879
And I've been playing music since I was since I was nine, and I always had this, even from a very young age, I was like, I'm probably gonna end up going to Berkeley.

00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:23.360
Um and when I was applying to colleges, I was yeah, I applied to a couple, I would apply to Manhattan School Music in Belmont and a couple other places in in the States.

00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:30.319
But Berkeley was always the one that I was infatuated with, and uh and I ended up getting in, which was which was really cool.

00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.319
You got in uh as a drummer, didn't you?

00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:37.599
So we'll get on to Berkeley short uh shortly, but yeah, you started as a drummer as your uh your first instrument, yeah.

00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:44.400
Yeah, so I started uh I started playing drums uh at the age of nine uh because I saw the movie School of Rock.

00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.639
I was also at that time, I was I I was into music from a very young age.

00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:54.319
None of my family are musicians, but they were all very musical people, so they all had they had good taste.

00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.840
My sister was big into Motown and things like that, so I was listening to that stuff when I was seven or eight.

00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:06.319
And then my uncles brought me a lot of like heavy metal and you know, Sabbath and Megadeth and people like that.

00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:14.000
So it was cool as a drummer to like when I started playing, I had this wide berth of things that I really wanted was curious about exploring.

00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:18.319
And then I got into playing harmonica when I was about 14.

00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:29.199
And reason for it is that I busted my hand really badly playing soccer, and I was playing in jazz band at the time and I had to fill the credit, and I only had one hand to work with.

00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:33.520
And the beauty of the diatonic harmonica is that it just needs one hand.

00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:49.759
And so I started on that uh when I was that age, and you know, as kind of a stroke of luck, I had a teacher at my high school who was very into blues music and gave me a huge stack of you know, Big Walter Horton and James Cotton and Little Walter, of course, um, Sunny Boy.

00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.039
So I already knew all the the blues guys right from the get-go.

00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.360
So that was a huge advantage that I already had.

00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:56.319
And this was Mr.

00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:58.960
Rose, we got to thank for your harmonica playing.

00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:00.000
Oh man, Mr.

00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:01.680
Yeah, Landon Rose, man.

00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:14.479
He's um and we had a lot of great musicians in the band too, but none of them would have would have actually been as good as they were without his encouragement and his uh patience because we were all a bunch of hyperactive ADD kids for sure.

00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.240
But he was another example, man.

00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:26.639
He taught us, you know, it's interesting when I was first learning about music as a drummer, you don't really learn, you learn a little bit, I guess, in the way of arrangements and uh chord progressions and things like that.

00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:34.879
But blues was the first music that I came across, and I was aware of the fact that there was a structure to it, that there was a 12-bar, eight-bar structure.

00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:42.319
And that was fascinating to me as a drummer, is I just thought people I didn't know how songs were were created or how forms were created.

00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:49.519
But when I started playing the harmonica, that was my first entrance into actually learning how to play melodically, harmonically.

00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.759
Um so as a drummer, it was just a it was like it was like going in the moon.

00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:55.279
It was a very different feeling.

00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:55.839
Yeah.

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.839
I mean I thought to, you know, lots of people who started out on different instruments.

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.079
You know, a few drummers, quite a few people who play piano, obviously guitar and on other instruments.

00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:11.920
And you know, it's always interesting how that initial instrument influenced you and you'd have thought obviously uh being drums, it would it would influence you rhythmically.

00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:13.920
Uh, you know, you're playing on harmonica, yeah.

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.279
Do you think that that has done that?

00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.319
Yeah, for sure.

00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:26.399
I I think that it was you know, uh people's first instrument is always a wild card because sometimes it's an instrument that's forced on the kid from their parents.

00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:34.800
So the classic example is people who are told to, you know, learn piano when they're six and then they do it for a year and then they never want to do it again.

00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.319
And drums was an interesting first first instrument.

00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.000
I think it's the second best first instrument.

00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.839
I think piano is first and then drums are second, and usually they go hand in hand.

00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:53.920
But drums was interesting because it was fun to practice, and that was the biggest thing that I took from my time drumming, is that music doesn't have to be this kind of slog.

00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.040
It can be a fun, wondrous experience.

00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:12.639
And when I started playing harmonica, it was difficult at the beginning, but I still had that I was conditioned to it being fun, to like this is supposed to be fun, it's not supposed to be superior, like academic or trying to fit some kind of mold.

00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:14.800
It was just, I'm just doing it because it's fun.

00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:19.600
There's something my dad said to me a long time ago is that like whatever you do in life, just make sure that it's fun.

00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:22.000
And drums was just that.

00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:23.519
It was the it was the spark.

00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.399
You then started learning like probably quite a lot of people, your generation from YouTube, right?

00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.959
And there's lots of YouTube teachers and Ronnie Sherlius.

00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.680
I know you spent some time with an Adam Gusso's YouTube channel.

00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:37.360
And so you you started learning that way initially with harmonica, yeah.

00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:48.160
Yeah, so when I first came to harmonica was when YouTube was was just starting to get populated with things like Adam Gusso and and Ronnie Shellis and Jason uh Ricci.

00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.120
And all of those were great.

00:06:51.360 --> 00:07:06.240
The thing that really uh made me stick with the harmonica is that when I was learning drums, uh I had a long stretch of time where I didn't have a teacher, and that was kind of a detriment to me, is that I've I've it was too much lenient to the self-reliance of it.

00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:10.720
And I still to this day preach about the importance of having a teacher.

00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:16.319
No, when I was uh when I was first learning, the man who taught me how to play the harmonica was uh Mike Turk.

00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:19.439
Mike Turk was a huge, huge influence on me.

00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:28.240
And as most like 15 or 16-year-old kids think, like, you know, you think you're you know, God's gift to the world, you think you're the greatest harmonica player ever.

00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:32.480
And Mike just immediately cut me down to size, and it was exactly what I needed.

00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:38.639
So that when I met people, I went Ronnie went on to be a great friend of mine, and Jason went on to be a great friend of mine.

00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:46.959
When I met those guys, I was able to absorb more of what they were trying to teach me from a less ego-driven place.

00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.720
And I think that was very valuable.

00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:57.439
Those in-person sessions that I had with Mike were irreplaceable in terms of becoming a harmonica player, both chromatic and diatonic.

00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.879
Yeah, very great player.

00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.680
Well, I've had him on the podcast, so yeah, he's a very knowledgeable guy, yeah, so a great teacher, I'm sure.

00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:24.959
So both him and Annie Raines, I think they uh were based in Boston, yeah, so you saw those face-to-face because they were they were nearby as well, yeah.

00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.600
Yeah, harmonica mom and harmonica dad.

00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:30.720
Um yeah, they were both uh Annie.

00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:38.399
It was interesting too because Mike is, as you know, Mike is much more jazz-driven than he is, than he is blues driven.

00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.759
And I was I started playing harmonica diatonic when I was 14.

00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.919
I started playing chromatic when I was 16.

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:54.000
And from the get-go, the things that I was interested in was I just wanted to sound like James Cotton, and that Chicago the Blues Today album was one of the most important albums of my life.

00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:21.759
And that was what kind of led me to Annie, is I had heard her name around the Boston music scene for a long time and started taking lessons with Annie, and it was all about just like I had never tongue-blocked before.

00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.120
I had never all of that stuff was very alien to me.

00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:35.440
And it was interesting to get that side of the coin with learning how to play blues harmonica and also trying to learn how to play Autumn Leaves or something like that from Mike.

00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:41.759
So the two of them going hand in hand was a very interesting time of my life.

00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:49.600
And to this day, balancing those two sides has always been difficult, but I think also very rewarding as a as a player.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:55.279
Yeah, I mean, there's lots of talk around the differences and the similarities between the diatonic and chromatic.

00:09:55.360 --> 00:10:04.960
And I mean you're playing jazz and blues there, so you know, the stylistically not too far apart, but yeah, obviously the the instruments themselves are quite different, yeah, to play.

00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:10.720
Yeah, and I think that my style as it has evolved over the years has been trying to bridge the two.

00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:16.559
I've been told by people that I play chromatic very diatonically, and don't always know how to take that.

00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:30.320
But I think I I think I understand what they mean is that I I bring a lot more of that those double stops and those those kind of accentuated bends into my chromatic playing, which is a direct result of my Stevie Wonder influence, which is paramount.

00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:35.919
But yeah, I think that the the blues stuff has been and and Mike is like this too.

00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:47.200
Like when Mike first started recording albums uh on the chromatic, he was doing all the amplified chromatic stuff, and and it was much more bluesy than things that I had heard before, and that definitely had a profound impact too.

00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:50.720
And so you mentioned a couple of instances there over to James Cotton.

00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:51.840
I know you like Paul Delay.

00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.120
So I've got a nice clip of you.

00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.039
Um you're playing uh Mojo working.

00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:56.960
I can definitely hear some pole delay.

00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:01.919
You play that high, that high nine blow he lets put in there, and then you go into some big hand barrotto, James Cotton.

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:07.519
So he could I could hear both those players in that solo, so that was interesting when I was checking out your uh your recordings, yeah.

00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:25.840
Yeah, Cotton was one of those guys.

00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:26.320
It's funny.

00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:33.759
So when I was in high school, I uh was a part of a program, it was an academic program that was part of my uh it was called the Creative Arts Diploma Program.

00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.960
So when you graduate high school, you usually get one diploma.

00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:46.399
This was a second diploma that was just in uh any creative art that you were you had to supply a certain amount of hours every week towards whatever it was.

00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.559
And then when you graduated, you got two diplomas.

00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:58.720
So I got my second diploma in instrumental music, specifically in harmonica, and I did my, for lack of a better term, thesis in my senior year on James Cotton.

00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:09.919
So I dove very, very, very deep into into all of his recording, and that playing style, yes, has definitely had a very big impact on my um on my diatonic playing.

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:17.120
And you know, as for Paul Delay, man, he's he is my go-to favorite harmonica player of all time.

00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:36.960
I just think the ability to to move between genres, between chromatic and and diatonic, to be able to be so unpredictable, um, and so melodic, and so play into like Jason talked about this a little bit, playing to the strengths and the weaknesses of the instrument.

00:12:37.200 --> 00:13:03.519
A lot of times people will just play to the strength, and what I always found was very interesting about Paul, like from a technical perspective, and I think I talked to Liam Ward a little bit about this, was he exited each note in such a unique, almost funny way, which is really endearing and and you know it's kind of endemic to to Paul as a musician and as a as a performer, but I had just never heard anything like it.

00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.080
It was like listening to like alien music.

00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.440
And yeah, to this day, he's a big uh he's a big influence.

00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:15.919
And a lot of the guys that I like nowadays, modern players, are come from the same thing, very influenced by by Paul Delay.

00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:17.600
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:23.200
I think he's a lot of players' favorite players, and uh, like you say, completely unique in his approach.

00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.720
Yeah, so um definitely interesting hearing what he comes out with.

00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:48.080
I've done a retrospective on James Cotton and Paul Dillet, so yeah, people can check that out if they want to hear more about those guys, if they don't know about them already.

00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:54.080
So yeah, because so going back to Berkeley then, you um you went uh I'd spent I think two years there.

00:13:54.159 --> 00:14:04.080
Uh you were initially studying drums, yeah, but then you sort of decided you could you wanted to follow harmonica, and then so you you sort of left Berkeley of your own accord, did you uh to sort of pursue your harmonica dreams?

00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:04.879
Yeah.

00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:11.440
Um essentially what happened is that I was playing drums and I was also gigging a lot via harmonica.

00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:20.480
The thing about playing drums at Berkeley is that you fade a little bit into the background because everyone is it's it's so oversaturated with incredible drummers.

00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.240
So I definitely felt a little, a little out of place and I was kind of looking for my my avenue.

00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:40.879
And what ended up happening is that I had one day I remember like I was playing harmonica and I was like, maybe I should, maybe I should pursue this because I'd had enough people that had hired me for singer-songwriter gigs or blues gigs, or uh I was playing everything.

00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.240
And I talked to my roommate a little bit about it at the time.

00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:50.399
I was like, what do you think you know the board would say at Berkeley about like if I wanted to just study harmonica?

00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.600
And I remember he said to me, he's like, Well, but they don't have that instrument there.

00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:55.600
I was like, But like let me try.

00:14:55.840 --> 00:15:06.320
I remember going to go talk to the people at at Berkeley and uh their their answer, you know, not to sugarcoat it was essentially we don't we don't believe it's a real instrument.

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:23.120
And it's a tough thing to hear, especially when you put hours and hours and hours of craft into into trying to do something, and then the institution that claims to be this very progressive institution it won't even hear you out, was a little disheartening.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:30.399
So yeah, um the end of my second year I decided I can pursue what I want to pursue on the harmonica.

00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.519
The information that I want is all online, or I'll go find it for myself from all these teachers.

00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:42.399
And I was getting a lot of education from Mike and from Annie, Ronnie, and uh another big teacher of mine was Rob Paparosi.

00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:47.600
So having all of that as my curriculum, I kind of struck out of my own.

00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:58.720
So this would have been when I was about twenty, and I started playing professionally when I was twenty and just gigging, really touring, just teaching as much as I could.

00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:00.320
And I started doing that when I was twenty.

00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:09.360
So it was a five-year stretch there between leaving Berkeley and getting the gig with Sting that I was really kind of nomadic and on my own.

00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:16.879
Yeah, but at that stage, like you said before you got with Sting, you were uh you were working professionally, you were making a living as a harmonica player?

00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.960
Yeah, I was I was teaching quite a bit.

00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.960
That was also where I first got into teaching.

00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:31.279
Uh during the pandemic, I I I had more of a systemization to it, but during those five years, uh I toured with a lot of different blues people, Gabe Stillman.

00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.960
Um, a lot of people, and got to go to a lot of festivals.

00:16:51.120 --> 00:17:01.440
And I was also treating these workshops that they have around uh the United States, things like SPA, things like these like big harmonica gatherings, as my school.

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:11.519
So I would get these handouts, I would get any little bit of like, you know, back-of-the-bar advice from any of these these players, and that would become my curriculum.

00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.960
And I I treated it like a like my job.

00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:26.799
So over those five years, and you know, there was a period of time I wasn't living in Boston, I was living in LA for a long time, I was living in I was living in Austin, uh, I was all over the place.

00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:39.039
And eventually I, you know, I settled into a nice groove when I was about 24 where I was giggy enough, I was teaching enough, and everything looked like it was gonna be good.

00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.000
Well, of course, you so you mentioned Sting there, of course.

00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.880
We can't talk about you, Shang, without talking about Sting.

00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:45.599
Sure.

00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.759
You played with Sting, I think, for six years.

00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.279
Uh you say though starting in 2015, wasn't it?

00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.599
So what was the gap, sorry, between leaving Berkeley and and then starting to play with Sting?

00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.759
I know I know there was a bit of a transition, wasn't it, before you started playing with him more full-time?

00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:20.880
The way that it began was in 2015, Sting was doing a charity gig in Boston for this charity called Lenny Zacom Fund.

00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:25.200
Lenny Zacomb was a big civil rights guy in the um in the Boston area.

00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:26.720
So it was a fundraiser.

00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.440
And Sting came to play at the Lenny Fund thing.

00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:31.839
My parents had been a part of the Lenny Fund forever.

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.759
Lenny was a really good friend of theirs.

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.640
And Sting was using an all-Berkeley band.

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.799
It was it was like an acoustic session, basically.

00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:51.519
So there was a Cajon player, there was my friend Jabari who was playing upright bass, Sting was playing acoustic guitar, and then for the song selection, they were all pretty harmonica-centric songs.

00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:53.200
So Fields of Gold was one.

00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:59.599
I know it's originally done on accordion, um, but you know, for that acoustic setting, the the harmonica worked better.

00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:10.000
So I was kind of tapped to to do this gig, and I played Fields of Gold, I played Every Breath You Take, and I played Roxanne.

00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.559
Those were the those were the three songs.

00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:23.519
And what ended up happening from that is, you know, the cool thing about his music, man, is that there is just not a lot of popular artists out there that use harmonica as much as he does.

00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:30.480
And just getting that opportunity, and I thought that was the the only time I was ever gonna play with him.

00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.400
This was my shining moment in the sun, and I'm I'm gonna make the most of it.

00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:41.279
Almost exactly a year later, I get a call from their management saying, Hey, uh, he wants you for another gig.

00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:43.039
And I was like, Cool, where's the gig?

00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.720
Carnegie Hall.

00:19:45.200 --> 00:20:13.119
And uh I fell over, but um but yeah, so th those five years between uh whatever it was, um I played uh one or two gigs a year, and they would be these one-off, sometimes private, sometimes acoustic uh shows.

00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:25.680
And then in 2018, going into 2019, I was offered to play a New Year's gig in Times Square, playing the song Brand New Day, which famously has Stevie Wonder playing the harmonica.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:36.400
I had about four weeks to get ready for that, to learn it front to back, and I did, and the televised audience for that gig was 30 million people.

00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:49.200
So after that, like that's how I always refer to it as that was like my audition gig.

00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:57.680
Three months later, I was working in uh Pennsylvania, I was working with my friend's blues band, and I got an email from them saying, Hey, he wants you to go on tour.

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:05.519
That was right before the summer of 2019, and I toured from the summer of 2019 to the beginning of um 2025.

00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:06.160
Wow.

00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.839
You must have felt like the uh the luckiest homelaka player on the world getting that gig.

00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:10.960
I mean, how did that feel?

00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.079
It was like that.

00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:18.000
It was definitely feeling uh an incredible amount of gratitude and an incredible amount of uh imposter syndrome.

00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:27.920
Like there's so many other great harmonica players, and I don't claim to be um William Gallison or a Stevie Wonder or someone like that.

00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.880
So it's almost a question of kind of like why me.

00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.400
But you know, my job was to was to be the harmonica player.

00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:35.759
So I took it on.

00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.920
I had a massive amount of prep that I did for a couple of months leading into the gig.

00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.960
There was a lot of music that I that didn't have harmonica on it that I was required to learn.

00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:55.440
All of the stuff from the Dream of the Blue Turtles album, all of the police stuff, all of the the brand for Marsalis saxophone stuff, and then that became what I was used for.

00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:00.960
I was the in the band, there was two guitars, keyboards, two backup vocalists, Sting, and myself.

00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:07.359
So I was the auxiliary on top of the music right there, fighting with his with his voice top line instrument.

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.599
Sting is a harmonica fan, so I think he was a fan of Paul Butterfield, yeah.

00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:18.160
So he he he always loved the sound, and like you say, he had Stevie Wonder play with him, he played with him on Fragile uh as well.

00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.319
Another song he played with him famously.

00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.240
Was that it?

00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.920
Was Sting just a harmonica fan?

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.160
Is that why he wanted a harmonica player in there?

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:54.720
You know, he's he's said it uh before that he's had the odd harmonica player turn up for for a gig, Stevie Wonder being a good example, Brendan Power did the Ten Summoners Tales album with him, so did Larry Adler.

00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.000
I think William Gallison did some, maybe not recordings, but shows with him.

00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:02.240
Toots did, but again, these are all guest appearances.

00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:20.000
You know, having a harmonica player in the band had never been something that I thought he would ever do, because granted, it is a very uh it's very prevalent in his music, especially in his solo career, but it's still like, you know, you could get the greatest saxophone player, you could get the greatest violin player.

00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:25.759
I uh that was always what I asked myself is like why why the harmonica, why does he want a harmonica?

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.240
Yeah.

00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.920
And I think that it's it does stem to your point from his his genuine love of of the instrument.

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.480
And yeah, that album, um, East West was a very influential album on him.

00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:45.279
And um that song uh In My Own Dream uh and the saxophone solo and the David Sanborn solo was very influential on him too.

00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.519
So it's pretty outspoken about Paul Butterfield.

00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.240
So as you say though, you learned songs on harmonica that were saxophone parts a lot.

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.920
So I mean, so he made a decision to have a harmonica instead of a saxophone, right?

00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:03.359
Which is again is a pretty incredible decision uh in that sort of pop setting where generally you'd expect, you know, a nice powerful saxophone solo.

00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.240
So again, uh incredible uh decision from him, yeah, from a harmonica point of view.

00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:15.519
Yeah, and I think that that was the that was the real thing I was struggling with is that the harmonica parts were were hard in their own way.

00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:22.160
What was harder was was making the harmonica fit in the songs that it it wasn't necessarily a part of.

00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.000
So the orchestral songs, like the one that I always think of is the song Russians.

00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:33.599
Russians is a very orchestral, like uh Stravinsky almost part that's played usually on a cello.

00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:38.079
So I was playing a 16-hole chromatic and I was just playing on the lowest possible octave.

00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:51.920
I thought it sounded really cool, but it was just getting over that hump of like, you know, I know it's a harmonica, I know that I'm mimicking a cello, and I know that this is just playing the part I'm not supposed to put any of my own spin on it.

00:24:52.079 --> 00:25:00.079
For like Brand New Day and Shape My Heart, I could, but for those songs that I was more like a person in an orchestra, that was challenging.

00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.200
But it also forced me to be very adaptable.

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.640
Throughout the course of the year, we would tour about 10 months a year.

00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:15.119
So it's not like you had time to, you know, if he wanted something, you had to have it ready either right then or the next gig.

00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:23.200
So there was no time to go in a woodshed, or if he assigned you something, you don't sleep, you put your nose to the grindstone and you work.

00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:30.319
So on that, did he assign you parts to play, or did you play like the parts of other instruments or come up with your own thing or a mixture of all the above?

00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.720
Or I always operated under the it's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.359
And I think as a blues player, that's something that I've come to internalize.

00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:46.640
Uh and you know, something I tell my students is you should essentially play from a very passionate place and then critique it afterwards.

00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:57.440
So there were songs, and and as a musician, like there are certain things that you don't want to overplay, and especially as a vocalist, you he's the last toes that you want to step on.

00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:04.319
But there were songs that he had very specific melodies in mind that he wanted me to play.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.839
So for those instances, I would listen exactly to what he said.

00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:15.359
But if it was a song that didn't have anything and I wanted to try a little something, he would let you know if if that didn't work or if it did work.

00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:22.079
And that was really refreshing because you know, some band leaders that I've worked with in the past have been kind of oblivious to that kind of thing.

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.960
But the cool thing about Sting is how observant he is.

00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:41.680
That was the one of the biggest things I took away from my time with him is that it's kind of like what they talk about with old school uh boxers fighting like newer kids, is that the old school boxers are able to see these, you know, kind of young guns and they're able to see everything without allowing their emotions to get in the way.

00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.359
Like you're just seeing it from a purely uh objective point of view.

00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.119
And that was the cool thing about Sting is that he is a musician first.

00:26:49.440 --> 00:27:03.200
He's also was a high school English teacher, and it definitely he can definitely give that vibe, but he's a musician and he knows he knows what he wants, and if you play something that's not in line with his direction, then you will be told otherwise.

00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:08.400
On the gig you did with him at Carnegie Hall in 2016, that was just a duo between you and him, wasn't it?

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:08.640
Yeah.

00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:09.599
Or at least partly.

00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.000
Yeah, that was uh he was playing an acoustic.

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.720
He had just written a song for a documentary that was about Jim Foley, who was a journalist who was beheaded by ISIS.

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:30.160
The song was called The Empty Chair, and it's a very deep, very emotionally overwhelming song, let alone in that circumstance of just being in an acoustic guitar and a harmonica on the stage at Carnegie Hall.

00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:35.039
And I was 21 or 22, something like that, when I got that gig.

00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:45.119
You know, playing in Times Square is one thing, and 30 million people, it sounds very flashy, but as a musician, getting to play at Carnegie Hall was overwhelming.

00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:50.079
Like I remember I finished that gig and then I like went back stage and I just like cried.

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.519
It was just such a powerful moment.

00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:54.799
A highlight, yeah.

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.799
But I mean you stood with him for six years, yeah.

00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.680
You like did like 500 shows with him in 50 countries.

00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:01.200
I mean, incredible, right?

00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:02.000
Yeah.

00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.319
Are you still with him or because you were part of his touring band?

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.400
Yeah, that's what that's what happened in 2019, and that lasted till well, till issue.

00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.440
I mean, is it still ongoing?

00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:34.640
Are you hoping for another call or where is it left at the moment?

00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.359
Yeah, right now he's doing a a trio gig.

00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:46.960
Uh he's doing himself, Dominic, who's been his his longtime guitar player, and um Chris, uh this guy Chris, who used to play with Mumfred and Sons, is playing um drums.

00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:47.920
He's a great drummer.

00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:53.599
So he's kind of gone back a little bit to more the the rock and roll like police roots.

00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:03.200
One of the things that he was very outspoken about is that, and I think one of the things that gives him such longevity is how willing he is to change things up.

00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.119
You know, would it be great to have another call and another crack at a tour?

00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.000
It would be great.

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:15.119
But um, I also feel like, you know, six years and 500 shows, like I had I had my time um with him.

00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:20.480
And, you know, I wrote an article from my Substack a long time ago that was called uh Delinquent Dedication.

00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.480
It was essentially about life on the road.

00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:27.759
And life on the road has been overly romanticized in the public opinion.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:33.839
Granted, it is it is an incredible way to live, it's an incredible way to earn a living as a musician, but it is it's hard.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.920
Ten months a year away from your family is still 10 months a year away from your family.

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.319
You know, would touring again be be cool?

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:47.519
Yeah, but I also feel like there's other things I want to do with my life, and I'm very grateful to have had the time to tour with him.

00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.359
I still do one off shows with him.

00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.680
Um, I did a couple months back, I did one off show in Vegas.

00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:58.640
Uh, I'm gonna play on a one off show in Boston in a couple weeks uh that they're doing.

00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.839
So you kind of enter.

00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.839
Into we call it Sting alumni.

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:08.400
So you you basically like you graduate from touring with him and then you're just part of the universe of the Sting alumni.

00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:14.480
So like Brian from Marsalis would be in there, and Tandy Kirkland would be in there, and kind all kinds of people.

00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.000
So it's nice to be an alumni.

00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:20.640
So I mean, you know, without getting personal, I mean, you make a lot of money touring with Sting.

00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.960
Is that like you know one of the best paid gigs you can get?

00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.000
Or you know, I'm not a very materialistic person.

00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:32.079
I never have been, but I can't deny the comfortability that that you know financial security does give you.

00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:42.720
You know, as a harmonica player, those kind of things are are hard to come by, and that was something I'm very grateful for is to have had that those six years of feeling very comfortable like that.

00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:44.079
Well, I mean, absolutely.

00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:44.960
I mean it's great, yeah.

00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.480
And it also gave you uh, you know, a great name and reputation, right?

00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:53.200
And not only as a harmonica player, but as a musician, I'm sure it's it's opened many doors for you, has it?

00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.240
You're getting other things on the bay on the back of that?

00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:59.440
Yeah, I've uh done I've done a couple albums actually.

00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:06.319
Uh I've done, you know, I love I still love to play blues, but there's certain things on the chromatic that I'm very interested in nowadays.

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.200
I started working with a lot of neo-soul artists.

00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:14.319
Um I did an album coming out um with a woman named Nanena.

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:16.880
She's kind of like a Lauren Hill-esque uh woman.

00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.079
There's a lot of chromatic harmonica stuff on that.

00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.920
There's a guy named uh PJ Morton that I've done a lot of work with.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:28.640
Uh my friend Gene Noble has a new album, he was one of the singers of Stings Stings Band.

00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:30.799
He has a new album coming out that I'm on.

00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:36.799
So there's a lot of other styles of music that I'm very interested in beyond just jazz and blues.

00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:38.720
And then I'm teaching a lot too.

00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:48.079
Yeah, I love Paul Delay and I love Stevie Wonder, but the people who really inspired me a lot uh are Mike and Annie and Ronnie and people like that.

00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:52.079
And I I always saw myself as a uh wanting to be a teacher.

00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.599
Like I always I knew that I was headed in that direction from a young age.

00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.480
My mom is a teacher, and that was something that I that I always wanted to do.

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:05.599
And increasingly nowadays I've taken a lot more joy from from doing that.

00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:14.400
So, you know, this coming week I'm heading down to uh to North Carolina to the North Carolina Harmonica Festival with Todd Parrott and with a bunch of other great players.

00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:19.200
Uh Tom and Lecky is gonna be there, Hank Shreve, Jamie Garner.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:21.680
Uh it's it's a pretty stacked bill this year.

00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.200
Um, Michael Peliquin.

00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:30.160
I love those kind of things, and I love the combination of being able to teach and then play, not having to kind of choose between the two.

00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:54.240
Hey everybody, you're listening to Neil Warren's harmonica happy hour podcast, sponsored by Tom Halchek and Blue Moon Harmonicas out of Clearwater, Florida, the best in custom harmonicas, custom harmonica parts, and more.

00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.640
Check them out, www.blue moonharmonicas.com.

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:00.720
I mean talking about your teaching and also playing with Sting.

00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.359
So with Sting, you mostly played the chromatic, yeah.

00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.319
So uh you're not so much diatonic, right?

00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.640
So almost like 95% chromatic, yeah.

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.119
So you really push yourself in the chromatic.

00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.839
You think that's a, you know, is that where your interest lies in teaching?

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.880
I think I read that, you know, are you seeing there's a bit of a gap in the market there?

00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.920
There's not enough chromatic uh teachers out there, right?

00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:28.720
I think there's there's not enough teachers who will teach the chromatic in a way that is more accessible to diatonic students.

00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:30.400
That that's the best way that I can put it.

00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.039
So most, you know, I I do still teach diatonic uh and I love diatonic.

00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.519
And outside of the stuff that I was doing with Sting, I was still playing a lot of diatonic.

00:33:52.799 --> 00:34:07.200
But for teaching, most of my students find me because they hear my diatonic playing and then they also listen to my chromatic playing, and they hear the carryover of a lot of these bluesy things that I do in the diatonic to the chromatic.

00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.199
And I think that's like what I said before.

00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.920
That's what draws people to my sound.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:25.840
When I was at Spa this last um August, that was a lot of people came up to me and said, you know, I've never heard the chromatic played that bendy and that it's very like heavily major pentatonic, minor pentatonic, very stevie-like, but a little bit more gritty.

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.519
And that's the style of chromatic that I would like to teach.

00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:52.239
As much as I love jazz and and and the Toots style of playing and Larry Adler, and those guys are, you know, immortal giants.

00:34:52.480 --> 00:35:07.599
But for me, and what I've found with a lot of diatonic students is that the more of that Toots style of chromatic that you throw at them, it can kind of turn uh some people off because it seems like it seems like the mountain is a little bit too high.

00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.880
So when I start working with my students, I try to just minimize the mountain as much as possible.

00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:17.280
And going back to what I said about the drums and like the practice needs to be fun.

00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:28.079
That's a big thing with chromatic, too, is sometimes it can feel a little bit like you're just drilling scales or you're drilling arpeggios or you're drilling tongue switching or whatever it is that you're doing on the chromatic.

00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:36.559
My theory about diatonic players is just making it more accessible to them in ways, ways and language that they understand better.

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:37.760
Yeah, that's a great point.

00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:44.960
And obviously, Mike Turk was your teacher, he released one of his early albums is he played a lot a lot of uh amplified chromatic, didn't he?

00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.159
Where it was very hard-driven and uh, you know, it's almost like a diatonic style, as you're saying, the way he approached it.

00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:50.480
Yeah.

00:35:50.719 --> 00:36:02.719
And so uh as you say, you know, the chromatic can be very clean, you know, there's lots of kind of l light jazz and classical music played on it, which is great, but it doesn't have that same drive and sort of punch that uh Diatonics got right.

00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.559
So yeah, that's what you're trying to get, that sort of sound more out of the chromatic, yeah.

00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:14.639
Yeah, and and that that album that you're talking about, uh blues and around, um, that that Mike Turk did, that was a very influential album.

00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:19.840
Uh uh, you know, other huge influences that uh I probably shouldn't have mentioned before is Bill Barrett.

00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:28.800
Just his style of playing that that bending and that amplification of the chromatic was well, I saw a video of him doing Sunny Side of the Street that I thought was the coolest thing ever.

00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.280
And he was playing like amplified chromatic.

00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.159
It was like if little Walter was playing a chromatic to Sunny Side of the Street.

00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:49.119
That's where my interest lies.

00:36:49.280 --> 00:37:04.159
And especially the musicians who and the instrumentalists that inspire me outside of harmonica are not necessarily jazz cats and they're not necessarily just strict blues guys, but they're people who operate and ha very much phrase like a vocal instrument.

00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:10.960
So, like, number one influence that I have nowadays for my um for my chromatic playing is Derek Trucks.

00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:18.079
I find that his style of phrasing with the microtonal bending is very applicable to a lot of the things that I do on the chromatic.

00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:27.039
So a lot of this soulful phrasing that I that I try to concoct comes from listening to a lot of these microtonal heavy players.

00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:33.119
You know, there's other slide players too, Charlie Patton and Book of White and people like that that I'm that I'm drawn to.

00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.280
And, you know, different realms of music too.

00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:42.159
I love Indian music, I love Arabic music, and anything that's microtonal, I think, has a has a profound impact on me too.

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.800
So so as well as uh as well as your harmonica playing, you're a very balanced guy, uh Shane.

00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:48.159
You like to uh obviously read.

00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:55.840
You touched on your reading and writing already, you like to exercise so that you run the uh Boston Marathon uh in the recent years uh and teaching.

00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.599
So you and uh so writing's very important.

00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.719
You you've written uh numerous articles for Spa magazine.

00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:03.519
You also have an active substack where you release articles.

00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:10.079
I've been reading some of those articles, lots of inspirational uh words there, and the ways to approach the harmonica and and life, right?

00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.079
And and uh merging the two.

00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:20.159
And also you've released earlier this year a book called Beyond Breath, which is uh which was released at the end of March, and you you kindly sent me a copy so I could read it.

00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.320
So uh very readable, you know.

00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.280
I got through it in a in a you know sort of two or three days, which is great.

00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:30.239
I did read it quite intensely, but uh, you know, it was great, you know, really enjoyed it and definitely recommend people to read it.

00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.000
And it's your kind of philosophy on life and applying it to the harmonica, yeah.

00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:42.400
You know, it's funny, man, because my uh I'd mentioned this before that my mom was uh an English teacher, so reading has always been uh a big thing in my life, and writing too.

00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:50.559
When I was younger, uh my sister and I and my parents traveled a lot, and my dad always forced us really uh to keep journals.

00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.599
So writing, and that was from when I was as young as six.

00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.519
So uh I've been writing my whole life.

00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:01.679
What's interesting is because I'm a self-admitted college dropout, I was still very interested in getting an education.

00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:12.239
So when I was on the road with Sting, uh, I would take two suitcases with me, one of which was just clothes and harmonicas, and the other one was books.

00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.800
You know, when you're at a venue for six hours a day, you have three choices.

00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.719
You can either go to sleep, you can be on your phone, or you can do something productive.

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:33.840
So I would read all kinds of things, fiction, like all kind of classic literature, poems, and a lot of nonfiction too, a lot of spirituality-related things, a lot of stuff.

00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:40.800

Shane Sager interview

Listen On

Featured Episodes

Diatonic harmonica Episodes

Chromatic harmonica Episodes

Blues harmonica Episodes

Harmonica author Episodes

Recent Episodes

Diatonic harmonica Episodes

Chromatic harmonica Episodes

Blues harmonica Episodes

Retrospectives Episodes

Female harmonica player Episodes

Chromatic blues Episodes

Classical chromatic Episodes

Classical diatonic Episodes

Browse episodes by category

Support On

Featured episodes

Annie Raines interview

Paul deLay retrospective with Grant Dermody, Ross Garren and Pete Dam…

Mike Turk interview