Oct. 5, 2023

Michael Rubin interview

Michael Rubin joins me on episode 95.
Michael moved to Austin as a young man, initially as a blues player. He found that by diversifying the genres he played on harmonica he became much more in demand in the vibrant music scene in Austin. He added to t his versatility by playing different types of harmonica, including plenty of chromatic in addition to the diatonic being his main axe. Michael has also recorded on bass harmonica and the harmonetta.
Michael has gigged and recorded with numerous outfits, with styles ranging from blues to pop, African music, reggae and old time country gospel. Michael released his first solo album in 2022, I’ll Worry If I Wanna. On here he demonstrates his full range of harmonica mastery, including a solo playing in all twelve positions.

Links:
Michael’s website:
https://michaelrubinharmonica.com/

I’ll Worry If I Wanna album:
https://michaelrubin.hearnow.com/

SPAH tribute to Bob Herndon (great Harmonetta player):
https://www.spah.org/content.asp?contentid=62

Mike Caldwell:
https://www.countrythangdaily.com/mike-caldwell-unleashed/

Album with Christopher Cody Meacham:
https://christophercodymeacham.bandcamp.com/album/ol-time-waddies-blues-2019-lp

Videos:

YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@michaelrubinharmonic

List of YouTube harmonica lessons:
https://michaelrubinharmonica.com/pageVideoArchive.html

Peg O My Heart on Harmonetta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xfqJNhLoTA

Sophisticated Lady on DM48:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaSKBZqijnU

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram

Support the show

01:27 - Born in New Jersey, now living in Austin, Texas

01:42 - Was conceived in Memphis, as parents lived there before he was born

02:09 - Michael moved to Austin for the music scene there

02:19 - Spent a year in New Orleans but the famous musicians from Austin drew him there

03:11 - Has mainly been able to support himself through music, just having a few standard jobs

03:33 - Did some singing and played some other instruments in early part of his career, but mainly survived as a harmonica player

03:53 - Texas blues is the main form of blues in Austin

04:50 - Texas shuffle is a common rhythm played in Texas

05:27 - Some of the great harmonica players to come out of Austin

06:08 - Focused on being a blues harmonica player when first moved to Texas, but when he branched out he became more in demand

07:35 - When Michael was a blues player only he took on some of the business side of the music to ensure he was regularly gigging

08:01 - Went to Kerrville Folk festival, not too far from Austin, where people saw Michael’s versatility on harmonica and he got hired all time time from then

08:43 - Diatonic is main instrument, but plays plenty of chromatic

10:02 - Michael advocates finding one musical partner, and then a band will follow

10:48 - Doing the business side of a band makes you very appreciated

11:27 - Selection of songs in the band, and the importance of ordering the setlist

12:57 - Has learnt different harmonica styles so he can be versatile in what harmonica he can offer

14:03 - Also works hard to develop own style

14:35 - Versatility of styles helped Michael get plenty of session work

15:21 - Plays bass harmonica, and has recorded bass on an album with the Susquehanna Hat Company band

17:20 - Bass harmonica playing improved significantly when started playing with the band

18:28 - Had a mic designed for the bass harmonica by Richard Smith, but now uses a Suzuki mic

19:13 - Michael’s bass harmonica had the low notes in the centre, making it easier to amplify

19:56 - Played the bass harmonica through a bass amp

20:06 - Previously playing electric bass helped with playing bass harmonica, but knowing some chord theory is all you really need

20:35 - Playing simpler lines on bass harmonica is probably advisable due to it’s lack of responsiveness

21:02 - Doesn’t play much bass harmonica now

21:10 - Also plays some harmonetta, which is great for chords

21:35 - Bob Herndon helped Michael on how to play harmonetta

22:27 - Harmonetta is visually impressive to an audience, but more useful in a studio setting

23:21 - Early bands were Scarecrow and Foscoe Jones

24:59 - Played with a renowned blues singer: Ruthie Foster

26:11 - Worked with Dr Sick, playing punk edged music on harmonica

28:11 - Played five years with Kalu James, a real Nigerian Prince

29:31 - Also played in a reggae band for a number of years

29:48 - Has been part of an old time country gospel band called the McMercy Family

31:36 - Plays one song in equal third tuning on one of the gospel albums

32:43 - Also plays with Dylan Blackthorn

33:39 - Recordings with singer songwriter Christopher Cody Meacham

34:22 - Stylistic comparisons to Argentinian chromatic player Hugo Diaz

35:10 - Types of harmonicas used by Michael with different recording projects

35:35 - Debut solo album, I’ll Worry If I Wanna

36:16 - Lyrics on album are written by Michael (inspired by Rick Estrin and others) and are mostly humorous with serious undertones

38:45 - Kama Sutra Girl has a harmonica solo played in twelve positions

41:51 - Impersonating barnyard animals on harmonica

42:28 - How Michael developed his unique sound

43:13 - The three strengths of the harmonica: power, beauty and do weird stuff

43:32 - Album cover from I’ll Worry If I Wanna was created by a well known album artist

44:28 - Sings all songs on album, and worked hard at developing his singing

46:34 - Played on a Broadway show: The Civil War, and how it helped develop his music reading skills

48:20 - Doing The Civil War showed he could rise to the professional challenge and the importance of understanding music theory better

49:59 - Has a YouTube channel with many instructional videos detailing different aspects of playing the harmonica, including music theory

50:50 - Teaches online and at various harmonica camps

51:06 - Ten minute question

52:04 - Has played the DM48, but doesn’t use it much now

52:58 - Favourite diatonic is the Special 20, with any overblow set-up done by Joe Spiers

53:07 - Favourite chromatic is the Suzuki Sirius, mostly using a bebop tuned chromatic

53:27 - Has created a tuning: Git Pickin’ Harp

54:07 - Spent seven years working hard on overblows, now uses them sparingly

54:57 - Embouchre: uses pucker, tongue block and U-block

55:52 - Amps and mics: Dennis Gruenling mic with Japanese crystal and Gibson GA40 amp

56:25 - Future plans include making more albums, plans to run own band and upcoming gigs

WEBVTT

00:00:00.289 --> 00:00:02.533
Michael Rubin joins me on episode 95.

00:00:02.573 --> 00:00:06.261
Michael moved to Austin as a young man, initially as a blues player.

00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:13.352
He found that by diversifying the genres he played on harmonica, he became much more in demand in the vibrant music scene in Austin.

00:00:14.335 --> 00:00:21.106
He added to this versatility by playing different types of harmonica, including plenty of chromatic in addition to the diatonic being his main acts.

00:00:21.989 --> 00:00:24.993
Michael has also recorded on bass harmonica and the harmonetta.

00:00:26.018 --> 00:00:33.207
Michael has gigged and recorded with numerous outfits, with styles ranging from blues to pop, African music, reggae, and old-time country gospel.

00:00:33.889 --> 00:00:38.274
Michael released his first solo album in 2022, I'll Worry If I Wanna.

00:00:38.935 --> 00:00:44.984
On here, he demonstrates his full range of harmonica mastery, including a solo playing in all 12 positions.

00:00:46.606 --> 00:00:49.090
This podcast is sponsored by Zeidel Harmonicas.

00:00:49.490 --> 00:00:58.844
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world, at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidel Harmonicas.

00:01:24.066 --> 00:01:26.090
Hello, Michael Rubin, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:26.572 --> 00:01:27.114
Thanks, Neil.

00:01:27.474 --> 00:01:32.167
You were born in New Jersey, but now you're living in Austin, Texas.

00:01:32.769 --> 00:01:34.653
Yeah, I got here in 93.

00:01:35.073 --> 00:01:39.617
And then I left in 98 and I came back early 2000.

00:01:39.638 --> 00:01:39.737
A

00:01:40.338 --> 00:01:41.680
great blues town, I'm sure.

00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:46.504
But before that, I noticed reading your biography that you like to say that you're conceived in Memphis.

00:01:46.584 --> 00:01:46.823
Right.

00:01:47.103 --> 00:01:48.665
Infused with the spirit of the blues then.

00:01:48.805 --> 00:01:54.650
Yeah, it's my little joke, but my parents did live in Memphis at least six months before I was born.

00:01:54.990 --> 00:01:56.572
I'm guessing I was conceived there.

00:01:56.852 --> 00:01:59.715
You might have heard some of the Memphis blues in the womb, eh?

00:01:59.975 --> 00:02:00.376
That's right.

00:02:00.536 --> 00:02:02.378
And they took me to Woodstock, actually.

00:02:02.418 --> 00:02:05.019
My parents went to Woodstock when I was in the womb.

00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:07.664
I have an idea that I saw Butterfield, but who knows?

00:02:08.064 --> 00:02:08.264
Great.

00:02:08.284 --> 00:02:09.287
So you moved around a lot.

00:02:09.326 --> 00:02:15.456
And obviously, like you said, you ended up in Austin, Texas, which is a many fine harmonica player base there.

00:02:15.538 --> 00:02:16.939
So what took you there ultimately?

00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:18.703
I definitely came here for music.

00:02:18.983 --> 00:02:21.146
I had done a year in New Orleans.

00:02:21.548 --> 00:02:23.591
You know, it wasn't that New Orleans was bad.

00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:26.175
I was just 21 years old and looking for more adventure.

00:02:26.575 --> 00:02:28.378
So I had looked around.

00:02:28.399 --> 00:02:29.942
I had met Clifford Antones.

00:02:30.241 --> 00:02:34.677
for Lantone, brought like 30 famous blues players to California when I was in college.

00:02:35.058 --> 00:02:38.330
So I shook his hand and said, I'll play your club one day.

00:02:38.371 --> 00:02:43.115
And then there was this guy named called Stubbs.

00:02:43.596 --> 00:02:45.578
He ran a barbecue joint in Texas.

00:02:46.018 --> 00:02:49.721
And one day I was at a food convention in California and I met Stubbs.

00:02:50.100 --> 00:02:52.424
And then I had seen Austin City Limits.

00:02:52.524 --> 00:02:53.685
I saw a W.C.

00:02:53.764 --> 00:02:56.366
Clark show and I thought that guy was really soulful.

00:02:56.766 --> 00:03:00.129
And then I knew about Steve Ray Vaughan and the Fabulous Thunderbirds.

00:03:00.510 --> 00:03:01.912
So it sounded good enough for me.

00:03:01.931 --> 00:03:07.817
And luckily, when I moved to Austin, it was a very inexpensive place to live.

00:03:07.937 --> 00:03:17.224
So I was able to get an efficiency apartment and not have a real job and no health insurance and top ramen and was able to make it.

00:03:17.604 --> 00:03:19.127
I did have various jobs throughout.

00:03:19.206 --> 00:03:25.372
I'm not saying I never worked real jobs, but pretty much I was able to make it as a musician really early on.

00:03:25.752 --> 00:03:27.693
And that was my point of being here.

00:03:27.854 --> 00:03:28.455
Fantastic.

00:03:28.655 --> 00:03:28.754
Yeah.

00:03:28.775 --> 00:03:33.098
And that was entirely as a harmonica player and singing as well?

00:03:33.639 --> 00:03:33.960
Yeah.

00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.903
If you can call it singing, my joke is as a singer, I'm a real good harmonica player.

00:03:39.424 --> 00:03:41.165
I played electric bass for a while.

00:03:41.794 --> 00:03:45.599
and I played some piano and melodica.

00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.705
Got real serious about mandolin for around 10 years.

00:03:49.246 --> 00:03:51.430
It's always been harmonica has been my main thing.

00:03:51.710 --> 00:03:52.592
No question about it.

00:03:53.173 --> 00:03:56.197
So Austin obviously is known for Texas blues.

00:03:56.258 --> 00:04:01.526
Is that the brand of blues you're getting mainly in Texas or is it much broader than that?

00:04:01.766 --> 00:04:07.455
Well, I think that when you really look at Austin music, it's very much Texas blues.

00:04:07.716 --> 00:04:41.430
It's really about guitars bass and drums and vocals harmonica is kind of far down the road but still included but you're not going to hear a lot of saxophone you're not going to hear a lot of piano that doesn't mean that horns and piano aren't played in texas i could list a bunch of great players but in terms of the overall sound it's very guitar bass and drum it's not as much variety as as like New Orleans, you know, where they really, you know, they focus on the piano and the horns and the drummer.

00:04:41.511 --> 00:04:44.134
You know, the drummer is very important in New Orleans music.

00:04:44.675 --> 00:04:49.322
And I'm not saying the drummer isn't important in Austin, but it's not the same thing.

00:04:49.362 --> 00:04:52.367
You know, we have this thing here called the Texas Shuffle.

00:04:52.668 --> 00:04:56.134
If you listen to a lot of early T-Birds, you'll know what I'm talking about.

00:04:56.194 --> 00:05:00.000
And on my album, the song Beer Belly Baby is a Texas Shuffle.

00:05:00.339 --> 00:05:02.023
It's the main thing you're going to hear here.

00:05:19.233 --> 00:05:22.278
I mean, how does that fit with the harmonica in general, that scene?

00:05:22.358 --> 00:05:26.766
As you say, it's trio bass, but there's that space for the harmonica as well, is there?

00:05:27.005 --> 00:05:27.346
Sure.

00:05:27.367 --> 00:05:31.392
I mean, if you look at the history of Austin, we've had some great harmonica players.

00:05:31.733 --> 00:05:38.343
Kim Wilson, Gary Primage, James Gotten lived here for a long time, Paul Osher lived here, Jimmy Lee.

00:05:38.384 --> 00:05:41.168
There's definitely been some people come through Austin.

00:05:41.269 --> 00:05:45.615
Oh, there's a guy, not a lot of people know about this guy, I highly recommend, Lewis Cowdery.

00:06:00.322 --> 00:06:05.028
And I think Louis is in Kansas City now, but excellent, excellent harmonica player.

00:06:05.550 --> 00:06:15.283
So there's definitely harmonica players, but when I first moved here, my first decade, I was really focused on being a blues harmonica player.

00:06:15.303 --> 00:06:31.708
And although I got work and had some bands with some people you might have heard of, I found that a lot of bands were like, well, we could have three pieces in the band, and each split$100 for the night, and we'd each make$33.

00:06:32.088 --> 00:06:36.555
Or we could have four pieces with a harmonica, and we'd each make$25.

00:06:36.755 --> 00:06:40.380
I think we're going to go for three pieces.

00:06:40.461 --> 00:06:42.144
We need that$8 each.

00:06:42.845 --> 00:06:57.550
And I think what they were missing, what they didn't You know, in my opinion, if you have a good sound, an artistic sound, tip jar is going to be bigger, the percentage of the bar is going to be bigger, and the harmonica player could rock the tip jar during a song.

00:06:57.850 --> 00:07:04.964
So I actually think it was kind of short-sighted of them, but it was harder to really become a part of the working scene.

00:07:05.045 --> 00:07:09.874
Everybody loved me to sit in, but to really become part of the working scene, it was harder.

00:07:10.146 --> 00:07:16.858
When I finally opened up to playing other styles of music, that's when I really started making a lot more money as a performer.

00:07:17.218 --> 00:07:18.440
Yeah, no, it's an interesting point.

00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.064
I mean, first of all, obviously every band needs a harmonica player.

00:07:21.084 --> 00:07:22.767
We know that on this podcast for sure.

00:07:22.988 --> 00:07:27.437
But it's a really interesting point you make there about, you know, a harmonica player often seen as sitting in, right?

00:07:27.456 --> 00:07:29.620
You might play, they might want you for three or four songs, right?

00:07:29.660 --> 00:07:34.168
But so yeah, talk about more about that transition to, you know, becoming a fully pledged member of the band.

00:07:34.668 --> 00:07:35.069
Yeah.

00:07:35.170 --> 00:07:43.208
Before I gave up on being a blues player only, I did have some blues bands where I became more of the leader.

00:07:43.629 --> 00:07:50.644
I might not have been the singer, but I was what I called the push, the guy who was making things happen, right?

00:07:51.225 --> 00:07:54.473
I was a part of a few blues bands that were working like every night.

00:07:54.978 --> 00:07:57.240
for a month to many, many years.

00:07:57.682 --> 00:07:59.904
But it was really my doing.

00:08:00.285 --> 00:08:02.928
And then I went to New York for a gig.

00:08:03.108 --> 00:08:11.341
And when I came back, somebody introduced me to the Curville Folk Festival, which is around two hours west of Austin.

00:08:11.701 --> 00:08:15.826
And it's an 18-day long festival where people camp out in tents.

00:08:16.307 --> 00:08:18.329
And yes, there's music on the stage.

00:08:18.891 --> 00:08:23.877
But what's really going on is people are playing music in the campgrounds 24 hours a day.

00:08:24.194 --> 00:08:27.997
And that's really where things broke for me.

00:08:28.459 --> 00:08:32.403
People really became aware that I could do a wide variety of music.

00:08:32.884 --> 00:08:35.907
And that's when I started getting hired all the time.

00:08:36.288 --> 00:08:39.091
And were you playing this on mainly diatonic?

00:08:39.110 --> 00:08:42.774
I know you talk about you playing other harmonicas, but was it was your focus diatonic then?

00:08:43.015 --> 00:08:45.498
I've always been real serious about chromatic.

00:08:46.058 --> 00:08:48.601
I think chromatic is appropriate.

00:08:48.833 --> 00:08:54.360
for certain styles of music that the diatonic harmonica doesn't quite reach.

00:08:54.921 --> 00:08:58.764
I would probably play like 70% diatonic and 30% chromatic.

00:08:59.105 --> 00:09:05.893
You know, a lot of people, they play chromatic in the key of D and they stick to the basic little Walter George Smith stuff.

00:09:06.153 --> 00:09:09.437
But I really took to it as a fully chromatic instrument.

00:09:09.878 --> 00:09:13.280
I like to play a lot of different styles of music on it.

00:09:13.881 --> 00:09:15.663
You know, I love the diatonic, don't get me wrong.

00:09:15.724 --> 00:09:22.216
I mean, there's a sound, you know, You can't get that sound on the chromatic.

00:09:22.277 --> 00:09:25.500
Now, you can get some ugly sounds on the chromatic, and I really like that.

00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:32.889
But that particular sound on the diatonic, you know, I think if I was on a desert island, I would choose that sound.

00:09:33.328 --> 00:09:44.861
But what I think about, the chromatic really is able to achieve what I think about without a lot of histrionics, if that makes sense.

00:09:46.946 --> 00:10:01.808
so yeah no really interesting the point you made about how you managed to become a sort of band leader or at least the push as you called it

00:10:01.908 --> 00:10:16.912
yeah one thing i like to say is that you don't need to create a whole band right away you need to find a musical partner i have this saying that says people don't follow leaders People follow followers.

00:10:17.673 --> 00:10:29.929
And so if you find one other person to play music with you, and then you go around town, and you're always showing up the two of you, after a while, the other musicians are going to say, what does that guy know about Michael Rubin?

00:10:29.990 --> 00:10:31.371
Why does he like Michael Rubin?

00:10:31.773 --> 00:10:34.557
And the other instruments just start falling into place.

00:10:34.596 --> 00:10:44.049
So once you get a band together, then there comes the question of, is this band about playing once a month?

00:10:44.385 --> 00:10:47.529
Or is this band about working all the time?

00:10:48.130 --> 00:10:52.277
And if this band is about working all the time, then somebody's got to do the work.

00:10:52.738 --> 00:10:59.206
And so a lot of band members really appreciate when somebody decides to do the work.

00:10:59.346 --> 00:11:02.110
And so to me, yes, it's great if you can be a singer.

00:11:02.130 --> 00:11:03.673
And I love singing.

00:11:03.712 --> 00:11:12.826
But the fact that I was willing to get on the phone and try and get us some gigs and that I was...

00:11:13.186 --> 00:11:19.215
doing the money at the end of the night and that I was putting up the posters and all the grunt work.

00:11:19.816 --> 00:11:24.442
I wasn't the only guy doing it, but I was grunting pretty hard.

00:11:24.884 --> 00:11:26.947
That was appreciated and it got me a lot of work.

00:11:27.567 --> 00:11:32.816
And what about your approach to selecting the songs and the place of the harmonica in the band as well?

00:11:33.957 --> 00:11:37.383
So everybody in a band has a position.

00:11:37.462 --> 00:11:38.945
It's kind of like a baseball team.

00:11:40.047 --> 00:11:46.482
So quite often, the lead singer would be writing the set list.

00:11:47.303 --> 00:11:53.871
This could be problematic because to me, the set list has to have a wave, right?

00:11:53.912 --> 00:12:02.241
It has to maybe start off strong and then slow down and then get strong again and kind of take the audience on a little journey.

00:12:02.562 --> 00:12:04.403
But it also has to have variety.

00:12:04.945 --> 00:12:12.374
I think a lot of the band leaders that I've worked with over the years struggle with the variety element of it.

00:12:12.898 --> 00:12:16.903
So, for example, let's say I play some Stevie Wonder's Chromatic.

00:12:21.027 --> 00:12:22.749
I do that on three songs in a night.

00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:25.351
Those three songs should be separated.

00:12:25.852 --> 00:12:32.360
But to a lot of band leaders, they're writing down the songs and they remember one of the Stevie Wonder songs.

00:12:33.081 --> 00:12:37.525
And they say, oh, well, I remember this other song and I remember this other song.

00:12:37.926 --> 00:12:41.210
And so they put those three Stevie Wonder songs right in a row.

00:12:41.761 --> 00:12:48.874
And so sometimes I would have to get involved and say, hey, these songs are really similar.

00:12:49.455 --> 00:12:50.937
We have to separate them.

00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:57.307
But other than that, I generally would let band leaders take care of that on their own.

00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:05.067
And then you also mentioned, you know, the versatility, you know, you became very versatile and that's something I Definitely, you know, I'm right on board with that.

00:13:05.107 --> 00:13:09.212
And obviously lots of different styles of harmonica players on here, but I love that myself, right?

00:13:09.253 --> 00:13:11.434
Playing, you know, harmonica is known for blues.

00:13:11.495 --> 00:13:12.576
It's very impressive.

00:13:12.596 --> 00:13:15.058
It's very loud and brash, but there's so much more it can do.

00:13:15.099 --> 00:13:18.102
So, you know, what about that versatility and playing different styles?

00:13:18.984 --> 00:13:28.214
It's always been important to me to be able to play pretty much everything that has come before me on the harmonica at a professional level.

00:13:28.815 --> 00:13:36.416
So I'm not the best country musician, Charlie McCoy style player in the world, but I'm professional at it.

00:13:37.258 --> 00:13:41.725
I'm not the best blues player in the world, but I'm professional at it.

00:13:41.945 --> 00:13:45.890
I'm not the best Toots Thielman guy, but I can do it, right?

00:13:46.572 --> 00:13:58.809
So every style, that harmonica that has come before me, I want to be able to do it because if I'm in the studio and the guy says, can you do that Stevie Wonder stuff?

00:13:59.291 --> 00:14:00.812
I don't want to be the guy that says no.

00:14:01.857 --> 00:14:02.980
I want to say, yes, sir.

00:14:03.760 --> 00:14:06.605
So this doesn't mean that I'm not working on my own style.

00:14:07.245 --> 00:14:13.755
I'm very interested in coming up with something unique that I'm doing that other people are not doing.

00:14:14.616 --> 00:14:19.163
But I also want to be able to help other people achieve their vision.

00:14:19.845 --> 00:14:22.509
Music is not always about what I want.

00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:25.514
It's sometimes about what they want.

00:14:25.953 --> 00:14:27.076
Yeah, no, I agree with you.

00:14:27.096 --> 00:14:28.158
You definitely got a unique style.

00:14:28.177 --> 00:14:30.140
We'll get onto that when we talk about your album later.

00:14:30.181 --> 00:14:33.225
But so you were doing this, obviously you were getting session work then.

00:14:33.265 --> 00:14:37.974
And this was a part of the, you know, you wanted to be able to play a range of different styles to get the session work.

00:14:38.533 --> 00:14:38.955
That's right.

00:14:39.316 --> 00:14:43.562
I think my ability to play different styles really helped me get session work.

00:14:43.582 --> 00:14:49.832
And, you know, and when they found out I could read music, you know, there was a time when I was doing sessions all the time.

00:14:50.394 --> 00:14:52.878
Everything took a big slowdown when I had children.

00:14:53.153 --> 00:14:54.176
I'm not going to kid there.

00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:57.344
That really changed everything.

00:14:57.384 --> 00:15:00.571
I really had to shift from a performer to a teacher.

00:15:00.591 --> 00:15:03.879
I still do about four to six gigs a month.

00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.244
I used to do a gig a day.

00:15:21.153 --> 00:15:24.719
On top of this versatility, I mean, we touched on obviously playing diatonic and chromatic.

00:15:24.739 --> 00:15:30.047
You also play bass harmonica and record bass harmonica and also play the harmonetta as well.

00:15:30.128 --> 00:15:32.291
So, you know, you like to play the different harmonicas.

00:15:32.311 --> 00:15:35.115
You used all these in sessions and recordings.

00:15:35.375 --> 00:15:35.755
Yeah.

00:15:35.956 --> 00:15:44.730
And if you want to hear my bass work, there is an album by a band that I was in for a while called the Susquehanna Hat Company.

00:15:45.049 --> 00:15:47.072
The album is called For the Love of the River.

00:15:47.092 --> 00:15:50.077
And it's very creepy music.

00:15:50.466 --> 00:15:59.398
all your favorite instruments, a banjo, accordion, violin, and bass harmonica, and a man and a woman who both sing.

00:16:00.099 --> 00:16:01.900
And it's all original music.

00:16:02.481 --> 00:16:04.825
It's the kind of music you might want to hear on Halloween.

00:16:05.725 --> 00:16:12.234
And, you know, you get a sense for what would the bass harmonica do if it were the bass player in a band.

00:16:17.380 --> 00:16:17.981
Oh,

00:16:19.970 --> 00:16:27.898
So

00:16:27.957 --> 00:16:30.159
what made that band want a bass harmonica?

00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.542
You know, I was friends with those guys.

00:16:32.581 --> 00:16:41.951
It was almost like the universe wanted that band to happen because one day I was in my house and I'm very domesticated, right?

00:16:42.010 --> 00:16:44.673
Like, you know, I'm just here all the time because of my kids.

00:16:45.293 --> 00:16:47.976
And one day I turned to my wife and I said, I can't stand it.

00:16:48.017 --> 00:16:49.138
I got to go out tonight.

00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:55.918
And I went to a club and outside of the club were my two friends who were just sitting there talking.

00:16:56.337 --> 00:17:00.302
And I sat down and it turned out that they were forming a band.

00:17:00.844 --> 00:17:08.692
And I said, well, you know, if you'd ever consider, you know, me joining, you know, I play bass harmonica.

00:17:08.732 --> 00:17:15.441
You know, I thought it was just a joke and that, you know, I was going to wind up maybe playing regular harmonica for them.

00:17:16.102 --> 00:17:17.983
And they said, oh, that sounds real good.

00:17:18.003 --> 00:17:19.425
And that's how that started.

00:17:19.713 --> 00:17:19.973
So

00:17:20.015 --> 00:17:25.865
you'd already, you know, you'd already were very proficient on the bass harmonic before this, or did you have to, you know, get down to it?

00:17:26.445 --> 00:17:37.625
I had been working on it for around two or three years, but I will say the speed at which I improved by joining a band, it really helped me improve.

00:17:38.406 --> 00:17:42.513
Like before then, I kind of would say that I was fooling with the bass harmonica.

00:17:42.978 --> 00:17:46.222
And as soon as I got in the band, I learned real fast.

00:18:03.190 --> 00:18:03.230
So

00:18:07.746 --> 00:18:19.435
I have a bass harmonica, and I spent a few years ago, I spent some time learning it, and I played in a sort of orchestral-type trio for a little while.

00:18:19.936 --> 00:18:22.778
But yeah, I've kind of dropped it since then, just because of the practical use of it.

00:18:22.798 --> 00:18:23.420
But I do love it.

00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:25.922
I think it's got a great position in the kind of acoustic setup.

00:18:25.981 --> 00:18:31.686
I'd love to play some, but you had like a mic sort of designed for it and things, didn't you, to get it working?

00:18:31.826 --> 00:18:32.146
Yes.

00:18:32.528 --> 00:18:37.711
Nowadays, I would probably use the Suzuki mic, which, even though I have a Hohner, it fits a lot.

00:18:37.711 --> 00:18:39.935
Yeah.

00:18:59.617 --> 00:18:59.938
Yeah.

00:19:00.318 --> 00:19:05.163
I mean, cause I mean the problem with the bass harmonica I always found is it's just hard to amplify cause it's so low in the mix, isn't it?

00:19:05.203 --> 00:19:10.789
But did you find that, you know, in an album that was fine cause you'd probably sort the mix out, but I think live it's quite difficult.

00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:11.711
Yeah.

00:19:11.971 --> 00:19:33.083
Well, one thing I did first off, I got lucky in that the bass harmonica that I had put the low reeds in the center on both of the harmonicas, you know, it's two harmonicas attached by a hinge and on a lot of the honers, it'll be high on the top and low on the bottom.

00:19:33.624 --> 00:19:43.759
And that puts, it kind of screws things up for amplification because you're not getting the same frequency going into the mic.

00:19:43.778 --> 00:19:52.913
I'm not sure if I'm being clear, but in any case, my harmonica lucked out and the low pitches were in the center on both harmonicas.

00:19:53.377 --> 00:19:56.261
And so it was much easier to amplify.

00:19:56.281 --> 00:20:00.587
And then I put it into a Galleon Kruger bass amplifier.

00:20:01.548 --> 00:20:06.214
And that amplifier could be plugged into a PA system.

00:20:06.655 --> 00:20:08.298
So you played electric bass as well, you said.

00:20:08.317 --> 00:20:08.939
Did that help?

00:20:09.038 --> 00:20:14.686
I did play electric bass, and it helped me understand the bass harmonica for sure.

00:20:14.727 --> 00:20:22.738
But if you know a little bit about chord theory, you could figure out the bass harmonica fairly easy.

00:20:23.170 --> 00:20:24.651
It's not rocket science.

00:20:25.251 --> 00:20:34.601
If you have a C major chord and the notes are C, E, and G, if you find that C and you find that G and just go back and forth between them, you're halfway there.

00:20:35.701 --> 00:20:42.949
I mean, I found that when I played it, I played simpler lines than a bass guitar would play just because the kind of responsiveness of the bass harmonica isn't brilliant.

00:20:42.969 --> 00:20:43.690
At least my one isn't.

00:20:44.049 --> 00:20:48.714
So did you find that you played reasonably simple bass lines on it or did you get more sophisticated?

00:20:48.755 --> 00:20:50.916
It depended on the song.

00:20:50.936 --> 00:20:52.018
I definitely...

00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:54.071
could get more sophisticated.

00:20:54.093 --> 00:20:57.096
I think you're right.

00:20:57.156 --> 00:21:00.021
I think it's the simpler, the better.

00:21:00.643 --> 00:21:00.762
Sure,

00:21:00.903 --> 00:21:01.564
sure, yeah.

00:21:01.844 --> 00:21:02.244
So that's great.

00:21:02.265 --> 00:21:03.686
And do you still play the bass harmonica now?

00:21:04.127 --> 00:21:04.808
Not very much.

00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:08.013
It sits on my desk and I bring it out to show students.

00:21:10.037 --> 00:21:10.678
Yeah.

00:21:10.698 --> 00:21:10.877
Great.

00:21:10.897 --> 00:21:12.259
Well, we'll throw in the different harmonicas.

00:21:12.339 --> 00:21:14.022
We might as well pick up on the harmonetta.

00:21:14.042 --> 00:21:15.905
So I talked about harmonica quite recently.

00:21:15.925 --> 00:21:18.670
So this is basically a good way to play chords, right?

00:21:18.750 --> 00:21:19.270
That's right.

00:21:19.290 --> 00:21:21.153
You can play any chord on a harmonetta.

00:21:21.442 --> 00:21:22.364
It's really amazing.

00:21:35.265 --> 00:21:42.597
So there was this guy, Bob Herndon, who was like the best harmon and a player that ever lived.

00:21:43.425 --> 00:21:45.827
And he would be at spa playing the harmonetta.

00:21:46.028 --> 00:21:50.313
And so spa is a harmonica convention in the United States.

00:21:50.593 --> 00:21:53.296
It's probably the biggest convention of the year.

00:21:53.915 --> 00:21:58.721
So I would go to spa and I would see this, you know, I mean, it's fantastic.

00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:00.803
It looks like a typewriter that you're blowing into.

00:22:01.743 --> 00:22:05.507
And I would ask this guy all kinds of questions.

00:22:05.646 --> 00:22:14.567
And finally, you know, the next year I showed up with a harmonetta and he gave me like, Three hours worth of free lessons.

00:22:14.827 --> 00:22:16.069
He was a very nice guy.

00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:19.814
He passed away, but super genius.

00:22:20.634 --> 00:22:23.637
So I took a lot of his ideas and I went from there.

00:22:24.778 --> 00:22:28.202
So you've got some YouTube videos of you playing harmonica.

00:22:28.242 --> 00:22:31.826
Does it have much more practical use in a band setting or recording?

00:22:32.488 --> 00:22:37.413
All of these orchestral harmonicas, they look really cool.

00:22:37.432 --> 00:22:41.738
And so if you ever want to get the audience excited...

00:22:42.721 --> 00:23:09.154
know bring out a chord harp and everybody goes crazy right but in terms of actually playing them to me it's more about studio work i'll show up at a studio to do some basic diatonic work and i'll try and say to them hey you want to learn something about harmonica you know and i'll bring out these other harmonicas and Oh, bass harp.

00:23:09.214 --> 00:23:11.017
We got to get a song with bass harp.

00:23:11.397 --> 00:23:12.118
Well, that's great.

00:23:12.138 --> 00:23:13.140
That'll be another$100.

00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:15.221
Okay.

00:23:15.402 --> 00:23:17.704
And so it's kind of like McDonald's.

00:23:17.984 --> 00:23:19.386
Would you like some fries with that?

00:23:21.828 --> 00:23:22.089
Great.

00:23:22.109 --> 00:23:25.973
So let's get on to your recording career now.

00:23:27.816 --> 00:23:32.441
I think one of the first bands you let me know about was Fosco Jones.

00:23:33.122 --> 00:23:33.182
Yes.

00:23:33.377 --> 00:23:36.242
Yes, so this was not the first album I did.

00:23:36.363 --> 00:23:44.174
Probably the first album where I was in the band was a band called Scarecrow, which is an acoustic duo like 30s and 40s blues.

00:23:44.255 --> 00:23:45.637
It's very hard to find that.

00:23:46.097 --> 00:23:52.248
But Fosco Jones, I think I sent it to you by email, and I'll be happy to send anybody by email because you can't find that.

00:23:52.689 --> 00:23:57.696
So just send me a message, michaelrubinharmonica at gmail.com, and I'll send it on over to you.

00:23:58.258 --> 00:24:00.721
Yeah, Fosco was a great singer-songwriter.

00:24:01.026 --> 00:24:03.028
and a fantastic showman.

00:24:03.729 --> 00:24:08.394
And we met, and he was already ready to make an album.

00:24:08.654 --> 00:24:17.527
So we practiced all day for a month, and then we made this live album, and then proceeded to have a pretty successful band for a couple of years.

00:24:18.106 --> 00:24:19.107
I really love the album.

00:24:19.209 --> 00:24:21.731
You know, I don't have the technique that I do today.

00:24:21.771 --> 00:24:23.594
That was back when I was in my early 30s.

00:24:23.673 --> 00:24:24.976
I'm 53 now.

00:24:25.836 --> 00:24:29.821
But it definitely had a spirit, a vibe that I really like.

00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:31.531
So I recommend that album.

00:24:32.413 --> 00:24:35.317
Yeah, always good to get that raw playing when you're younger.

00:24:35.356 --> 00:24:37.159
There's certainly some energy in that, isn't there?

00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:38.200
Oh yeah, for sure.

00:24:40.182 --> 00:24:54.622
Michael Rubin on the harmonica, y'all!

00:24:56.450 --> 00:25:02.678
And then, so yeah, moving through your career, you played with a well-known blues singer called Ruthie Foster.

00:25:03.238 --> 00:25:06.541
Ruthie and I worked together for around a year and a half.

00:25:07.423 --> 00:25:08.865
Got to do some real big gigs with her.

00:25:08.964 --> 00:25:10.426
You know, she's famous.

00:25:11.228 --> 00:25:14.172
And recently she put out her latest album.

00:25:14.893 --> 00:25:17.976
On the album, she called me to do one song.

00:25:18.336 --> 00:25:20.239
It's called Love is the Answer.

00:25:20.318 --> 00:25:25.404
So if you go to YouTube or any streaming service, you should be able to find it.

00:25:26.082 --> 00:25:32.087
And it's got some, you know, real nice basic Stevie Wonder chromatic, but it's well done and that's what they wanted.

00:25:32.127 --> 00:25:34.431
So happy about that

00:25:34.471 --> 00:25:48.405
one.

00:25:48.925 --> 00:25:52.309
And Ruthie, you know, is a fantastic singer.

00:25:52.369 --> 00:26:02.778
And one thing, you know, that I really think, you know, I love singing, but there are people who, you know, singing is, is their main thing in life.

00:26:03.538 --> 00:26:07.002
And, uh, it's real nice to be able to work with amazing singers.

00:26:07.943 --> 00:26:08.545
Oh, absolutely.

00:26:08.565 --> 00:26:10.046
They live some music so much, doesn't it?

00:26:11.228 --> 00:26:11.288
Yep.

00:26:11.307 --> 00:26:15.132
And then you did an interesting, uh, work with an interesting band called Dr.

00:26:15.152 --> 00:26:17.194
Sick of the Squirrel Nut Zippers.

00:26:17.734 --> 00:26:18.036
Yes.

00:26:18.316 --> 00:26:22.760
So the album was called Six Pack and there's another band named Six Pack.

00:26:22.820 --> 00:26:27.838
So, uh, If you look us up on YouTube, you may see, you may wonder where I am.

00:26:27.878 --> 00:26:31.063
And if I'm not there, it's probably not my six pack.

00:26:31.463 --> 00:26:36.990
Yeah, so Squirrel Net Zippers is a famous band that he is now playing violin, guitar, and singing for.

00:26:38.051 --> 00:26:41.896
But before he joined the Zippers, we had a band for around six years.

00:26:42.678 --> 00:26:46.863
There is an album out, but it would be very hard to find.

00:26:46.903 --> 00:26:49.425
It's called Thrash Folk.

00:26:50.241 --> 00:26:53.326
Everything we did had kind of a punk rock edge to it.

00:26:53.925 --> 00:26:55.728
It was a very entertaining band.

00:26:56.890 --> 00:26:59.051
It's interesting you should say punk rocker.

00:26:59.192 --> 00:27:00.534
So can Jason Ritchie.

00:27:00.554 --> 00:27:02.516
Last time he played in a punk rocker band.

00:27:03.436 --> 00:27:06.540
Yeah, he didn't think the harmonica fit so well in that sort of music.

00:27:06.580 --> 00:27:07.362
How did you deal with it?

00:27:07.882 --> 00:27:11.987
Well, one thing I did, everybody in the band was jumping around like a monkey.

00:27:12.007 --> 00:27:14.529
And what I would do is I would dress up in a suit.

00:27:15.137 --> 00:27:24.388
And I would stand on the side and look as bored as humanly possible until it was my turn to play, at which point I would jump around like a monkey.

00:27:24.729 --> 00:27:27.913
And then I would go around back to looking as bored as I could.

00:27:27.952 --> 00:27:29.855
So that was my shtick.

00:27:30.315 --> 00:27:32.857
And some audience members didn't understand it.

00:27:33.598 --> 00:27:38.904
They would come up to Sick afterwards and say, hey, you know, that guy's not very professional.

00:27:39.650 --> 00:27:59.134
you know and but those who got it loved it i think uh punk harmonica works real well and uh give a shout out to a local punk harmonica player in austin texas walter daniels who is a hell of a nice guy and always supporting me so here's a shout out to the to walter so

00:28:11.362 --> 00:28:15.766
And then you're playing a sort of pop rock band, Kalou James, five years with him.

00:28:16.166 --> 00:28:17.887
That was very radio friendly.

00:28:19.349 --> 00:28:27.817
Kalou is actually, for real, a Nigerian prince who moved over to Austin to become a singer.

00:28:28.157 --> 00:28:29.980
He's a fantastic singer-songwriter.

00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:33.423
And he's still out there and they're actually doing very well.

00:28:33.482 --> 00:28:35.525
We worked together for around five or six years.

00:28:36.065 --> 00:28:37.306
I'm on three of his albums.

00:28:37.946 --> 00:28:39.628
It was a great showcase for me.

00:28:39.949 --> 00:28:40.910
It was almost like...

00:28:41.698 --> 00:29:14.244
situation like war or something where you had a pop band but it really featured the harmonica it wasn't like i was just kind of there i was really featured so that was that was a lot of fun Don't do any Nigerian music.

00:29:14.685 --> 00:29:18.991
We definitely had some songs that were based on African ideas.

00:29:19.231 --> 00:29:27.983
For me to say that it was actually authentic sounding, I'm not sure because Kalou was the only Nigerian in the band.

00:29:28.003 --> 00:29:33.392
And so I wonder, like I was in a reggae band for a long time called Mr.

00:29:33.471 --> 00:29:33.792
Brown.

00:29:33.833 --> 00:29:37.518
We actually had like a saxophone player from Burning Spear.

00:29:37.538 --> 00:29:42.493
It was a great band, but you know, How authentic is that stuff?

00:29:42.734 --> 00:29:43.500
I don't know.

00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:45.634
All I know is that the audience loved it.

00:29:46.241 --> 00:29:53.268
Another band you've been in for a long time, I think 17 years, is with the McMercy family.

00:29:53.508 --> 00:30:03.557
Yep, so that's an old-time country gospel band, five-part harmony singing, and we've got a couple albums out, and I kind of do my Charlie McCoy imitation.

00:30:03.997 --> 00:30:09.021
So that's another band where authenticity comes into question, you know.

00:30:09.362 --> 00:30:12.444
I'm not religious, and most of the band is not religious.

00:30:12.464 --> 00:30:34.395
I don't want to speak for everybody, but we love gospel music, so, you know, To me, just the question of what is religion and who has the right to sing these songs and do the themes of Christianity, forgiveness, loving one another, personal resurrection, where you decide to make a U-turn in your life and live a more morally correct life for the rest of your life.

00:30:35.176 --> 00:30:41.446
Can somebody who is not religious approach these themes and do it from a nice place?

00:30:41.527 --> 00:30:43.108
And I think the answer is yes.

00:30:44.097 --> 00:30:44.900
Yeah, definitely.

00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.906
I mean, I had a few, well, a couple of gospel harmonica players on recently.

00:30:48.967 --> 00:30:52.053
And yeah, harmonica works great in that sort of music, I think.

00:30:52.394 --> 00:30:52.775
I love it.

00:30:52.934 --> 00:30:53.275
I love it.

00:30:53.316 --> 00:31:00.489
And I think some of the strongest players, you know, we've got Charlie McCoy, Todd Parrott, recently passed away, Mike Caldwell.

00:31:05.038 --> 00:31:05.117
Yeah.

00:31:16.801 --> 00:31:18.865
Mike and I traded lessons for a long time.

00:31:19.567 --> 00:31:22.330
Just before the end of his life, he was taking chromatic lessons from me.

00:31:22.771 --> 00:31:24.494
He was a fantastic chromatic player.

00:31:24.555 --> 00:31:26.076
I wish his stuff had gotten out there.

00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:29.983
Buddy Green and I are great friends.

00:31:30.965 --> 00:31:36.094
It's just a wonderful world of gospel harmonica that I wish more people would get involved in.

00:31:36.934 --> 00:31:40.721
Are you playing a certain tuning to play gospel harmonica?

00:31:41.057 --> 00:31:51.761
Actually, I only use unusual tunings on one song on those albums, and there's a minor song where I decided to use a double low F.

00:31:52.383 --> 00:31:58.857
But as you may know, it's very difficult to bend the lower pitches on a double low harmonica.

00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:00.361
And so...

00:32:00.961 --> 00:32:04.786

Michael Rubin interview

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