April 25, 2020

Kim Wilson interview

Kim Wilson interview

Kim Wilson is without doubt one of the great harmonica players around today. He grew up within the vibrant music scene in California, learning his chops on the bandstand, which he hasn't got off since, touring extensively all his life. Kim's long term band, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, has brought him commercial success, and he has also maintained his own dedicated blues band for many years. He leads from the front, and absolutely knows what it takes to deliver the blues to an audience. Selec...

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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Blues Harmonica Chromatic Blues

Kim Wilson is without doubt one of the great harmonica players around today.
He grew up within the vibrant music scene in California, learning his chops on the bandstand, which he hasn't got off since, touring extensively all his life.
Kim's long term band, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, has brought him commercial success, and he has also maintained his own dedicated blues band for many years.
He leads from the front, and absolutely knows what it takes to deliver the blues to an audience.

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

http://fabulousthunderbirds.com/

Some of the YouTube clips mentioned:
Tuff Enough video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcXT1clXc04
Solo piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLgiQNpeblY
Nine Below Zero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85WhJxUpt_g

Chromatic player Mike Turk's website:
http://www.tinsandwichmusic.com/

Dennis Gruenling microphones:
https://badassharmonica.com/

Clinch FX Burnish Boost pedal:
https://www.clinchfx.com/clinchfx-burnish-boost/


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:35 - Kim's beginnings

03:21 - Playing with George 'Harmonica' Smith

06:44 - Musical parents

07:32 - Other instruments learnt when young

08:51 - Singing

09:48 - What got Kim started playing the harmonica

10:55 - Early influential albums

13:07 - Moved to Austin, Texas

13:34 - Fabulous Thunderbirds formed

14:21 - Muddy Waters

17:14 - Album with Mud Morganfield

18:10 - Fabulous Thunderbird first album

22:17 - Fabulous Thunderbirds commercial success

25:35 - Released solo albums

28:59 - Singing the Blues

30:05 - New Thunderbirds project in the pipeline

30:32 - Pandemic situation

31:42 - Kim's solo piece

33:12 - Joe Filisko custom harmonicas

35:18 - How Kim learnt to play

38:50 - Advice for upcoming bands

41:15 - Kim's playing style

42:26 - Being frontman in band

43:23 - Playing as a sideman

43:52 - Blues Chromatic

45:26 - 10 minute question

45:59 - Puckering and tongue blocking

47:51 - Harmonica of choice

49:59 - Favourite key of diatonic

51:31 - Overblows

53:19 - Amplifiers

54:11 - Owns one of Little Walter's amps

56:15 - Microphones

57:46 - Effects pedals

58:28 - Future tours

WEBVTT

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Hi Neil Warren here again and welcome to another episode of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast with more interviews with some of the finest harmonica players around today.

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Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and also check out the Spotify playlist where some of the tracks discussed during the interviews can be heard.

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Quick word from my sponsor now, the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more, designed for harmonica.

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Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf.

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Kim Wilson is without doubt one of the great harmonica players around today.

00:00:37.609 --> 00:00:46.661
He grew up within the vibrant music scene in California, learning his chops on the bandstand, which he hasn't got off since, touring extensively all his life.

00:00:47.713 --> 00:00:56.426
Kim's long-term band The Fabulous Thunderbirds has brought him commercial success and he has also maintained his own dedicated blues band for many years.

00:00:57.048 --> 00:01:04.859
He leads from the front and absolutely knows what it takes to deliver the blues to an audience with his tough harmonica playing style.

00:01:23.105 --> 00:01:24.168
Hello, Kim Wilson.

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Thank you very much for joining the podcast.

00:01:26.450 --> 00:01:26.992
My pleasure.

00:01:27.471 --> 00:01:29.055
It's a real thrill to have you join me.

00:01:29.094 --> 00:01:34.582
I'm a big fan of yours and have been for many years, as I'm sure lots of other harmonica players listening are.

00:01:35.043 --> 00:01:39.349
You moved around quite a bit when you were young, so you were born in Detroit, in Michigan, yeah?

00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:40.271
Yes.

00:01:40.751 --> 00:01:41.492
I moved to...

00:01:42.370 --> 00:01:44.834
California, my dad worked for General Motors.

00:01:44.873 --> 00:01:50.121
He moved us out to the Santa Barbara area, California in 1960.

00:01:50.643 --> 00:01:54.509
You know, I was in school until about 1974.

00:01:54.649 --> 00:02:02.299
I had started playing music in 68 when I was still in high school, end of my senior year.

00:02:03.061 --> 00:02:04.082
It was fantastic.

00:02:04.102 --> 00:02:09.867
Well, you know, at the beginning for me, because I was able to get up on stage with people, so many different people.

00:02:10.288 --> 00:02:24.266
I mean, literally, I'd only been playing a year and I was playing with Eddie Taylor and people like that, you know, Luther Tucker, Hightide Harris, Albert Collins, Lowell Fulson, Pee Wee Creighton, George Harmonica Smith, Johnny Shaw.

00:02:24.326 --> 00:02:28.573
I played with all those guys during my first three or four years of playing.

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You know, when we were in high school before I started playing, I had a bunch of friends who really loved blues music and they took me to a lot of shows down in L.A., That was a real eye-opener for me.

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Plus, I saw George Smith back then playing out in a park somewhere.

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That blew my mind, too.

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Immediately, I wanted to do it.

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There was another kid playing harmonica in high school.

00:02:51.903 --> 00:02:53.847
He was kind of my competition.

00:02:54.967 --> 00:03:03.318
He wasn't very nice to me at first, so it became my mission to kind of unseat this guy.

00:03:05.361 --> 00:03:08.066
That's why I got good in a short period of time.

00:03:08.514 --> 00:03:10.676
I'll tell you one quick story, okay?

00:03:11.437 --> 00:03:11.878
Yeah, go on.

00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.965
And this is kind of the story of how I've met all these guys.

00:03:16.465 --> 00:03:20.090
I had a band pretty much the whole time, from the very, very beginning.

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And I never was without a band.

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And then I'd have a weekend off.

00:03:24.195 --> 00:03:29.002
Well, it just so happens that George Harmonica Smith was playing at this club.

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I was too young to get in, but I had a fake ID, and I got in the place.

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And my buddy, who got me on a lot of stages...

00:03:37.442 --> 00:03:40.664
He saw me in the audience and so he comes up to me.

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He was playing three songs and then he'd get down and George would get up on stage and his band would back him.

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He comes up to me on the break.

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He sees me in the audience and said, look, I want you to get up there instead of me on the next set.

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I said, well, I don't know.

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You know, I was kind of checking it out.

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And he said, no, you're doing it.

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So I got up there.

00:04:04.128 --> 00:04:05.009
I was pretty nervous.

00:04:05.633 --> 00:04:07.616
I'd already played with a couple people, but...

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So I get up there and I play two songs, get into about halfway through the third song, and here comes George just hopping up on the stage with me.

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He gets up there and I'm doing everything that he's doing.

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He was kind of a vaudevillian kind of guy.

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He would lay on his back and do crazy stuff.

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So I was kind of following all of his moves.

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He was making me do that.

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That was the beginning of my friendship with George.

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When George would take a break, he'd have each band member, I remember he did You Don't Love Me.

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And he would let each band member down one at a time.

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So eventually it was just he and I up there.

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It was a great moment for me, you know.

00:05:08.403 --> 00:05:10.466
And he was a very, very sweet guy.

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What did

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he say

00:05:11.949 --> 00:05:13.089
about your first performance

00:05:13.170 --> 00:05:14.512
on stage then when he got you up?

00:05:15.033 --> 00:05:18.398
You know, I asked him questions after I knew him for a little while.

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I came back because what he said was, I want you to finish out the week with me.

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And the next time he came back, I was playing with him as well.

00:05:26.750 --> 00:05:27.793
So I guess he liked it.

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I mean, I was...

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Asking him questions, I didn't really get any kind of training from him or anything, but he was my hero back then.

00:05:37.045 --> 00:05:42.254
I knew about George before I knew about Little Walter, and I knew James Cotton also.

00:05:42.355 --> 00:05:48.122
I didn't meet him back then, but I knew George really before anybody, so it was a big, big thrill for me.

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I would ask him questions.

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Am I doing this right?

00:05:51.528 --> 00:05:52.790
Yeah, you're doing that right.

00:05:52.810 --> 00:05:56.596
He was more into finding a good nickname for me.

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And that didn't really work out very well.

00:06:02.857 --> 00:06:04.600
I'm not going to tell you what he called me.

00:06:05.060 --> 00:06:07.324
But I said, no, I think I'll stick to what I've got.

00:06:09.206 --> 00:06:12.353
So he was very influential with the West Coast players, wasn't he?

00:06:12.413 --> 00:06:17.081
I think Rob Piazza also was heavily influenced by him as

00:06:17.221 --> 00:06:17.420
well.

00:06:18.283 --> 00:06:19.464
Yeah, and Bill Clark.

00:06:20.305 --> 00:06:21.148
Yeah, he was.

00:06:21.327 --> 00:06:23.572
You can still hear his influence in my playing.

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I mean...

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I don't really play too much like him anymore, but I used to play very much like him.

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I still like to use octaves

00:06:31.242 --> 00:06:31.584
a lot.

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I think he's one of those slightly underrated players, isn't he?

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A lot of guys like yourself are heavily influenced by him, and a lot of people tend to little Walter and Sonny Boy, but George Smith, you know, a great player.

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You have musical parents, is that correct?

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Yeah, my dad was a singer.

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He sang on the radio.

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And my mother was a pretty good singer as well.

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She sang in Baptist Church, you know, she...

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Both my grandfather and my uncle were deacons in the church.

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And she had a piano in there that she'd fool around with.

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They would sing at the house.

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My dad had talent.

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He was a good singer.

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Were they into blues music?

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They were into old music.

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You know, like, let's say Bing Crosby or Sinatra.

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My dad was kind of a crooner like that.

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He was very influential in music.

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me involving myself in the fine arts.

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I was an art major in college.

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I won a lot of awards at fine arts.

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When you were young as well, you played trombone and guitar initially.

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I did.

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My folks taught me lessons.

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I was in the band.

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We had mandatory music class twice a week in Michigan.

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And one day the music teacher comes in and he says, brings in a couple of horns.

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He picks me and this other kid out of the class and he hands me a baritone horn and said, play it.

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So I played it.

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And I wasn't really that fond of, I never really liked a lot of rules.

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I didn't really get into reading music very much.

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I just fought it.

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But I had a good sound and I was first chair immediately.

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And then I played guitar.

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I didn't really like strumming to whatever the tabs and reading music, doing that either.

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I remember going up on stage and faking it.

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My mom was in the audience.

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She didn't even know I was faking it.

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But I didn't know what the hell I was doing up there.

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And I got away with that one.

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Now, I enjoy fooling around with a guitar a little bit, but I always thought I wasn't always an improvisational guy.

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I never really liked playing set pieces.

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It just, for some reason, even back then, it didn't thrill me.

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Were you singing back then?

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I was not singing.

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I started singing when I first started playing in bands when I was 17, or a little before that, because I could sing before I could play bass.

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And that's really why I was able to get in bands, even though people say I could play back then.

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I really couldn't.

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You can't.

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No one wants just a harmonica player.

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So I was a singer.

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I knew that from I was also a songwriter back then.

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I wrote songs.

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You know, the whole thing was the whole experience for me was just absolutely incredible.

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I got to tell you, I mean, being around these guys, them taking me under their wing.

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And they didn't have to be harmonica players.

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I was just thrilled.

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I mean, Eddie Taylor, that was incredible.

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And then I would meet all these guys later on when I moved to Minnesota for a year.

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And then I would, that was like in 1975 when I did that, about a year and a half.

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And then I moved to Texas.

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But I met Albert Collins up in Minnesota and I met him down in Austin again, you know.

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And

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all these guys, I would kind of rekindle my friendships with them during these times.

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So you started playing in a blues band at high school, a senior school.

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You say you're about 17.

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Do you remember what first got you started playing the harmonica?

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You know, I just wanted to do it.

00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:14.791
I can't really tell you what got me going.

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I mean, I'm listening to people like George Smith and Big Walter back then.

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That was a pretty big inspiration.

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People were going to clubs all over the place and seeing unbelievable people playing in that area.

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I was going out there.

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I had my fake ID, like I said, and I was watching all these guys play going, I got to do that.

00:10:45.945 --> 00:10:48.606
So you probably saw live harmonica first, did you?

00:10:48.647 --> 00:10:49.587
No.

00:10:49.989 --> 00:10:52.730
Well, kind of both at the same time, really.

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You know, I was listening to, I had that World Pacific record by George.

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Yeah.

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Which

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was a big, big, big influence on me.

00:11:11.714 --> 00:11:14.096
And then I had that first James Cotton record on

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Verge.

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Well, one down the road.

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Stop at Fanny Mae's.

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Child found out I heard her.

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Boyfriend said.

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That James Cotton record became the Bible for me because all these different types of material that he was doing, I said, well, hell, if it's good enough for him, it's certainly good enough for me.

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And it gave me an opportunity to go out.

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You know, back then, just like now, really, you had to get people dancing before you could throw a low down blues on them, you know.

00:11:54.850 --> 00:12:04.706
But, you know, that kind of changed when we started playing in Austin and people were dancing to, like, Jimmy Reed and that kind of stuff.

00:12:05.347 --> 00:12:09.575
I got to tell you also that Taj Mahal was a huge influence on me back then.

00:12:09.914 --> 00:12:13.280
And that kind of got me into the more contemporary side of things as well.

00:12:13.642 --> 00:12:16.567
Because Taj, he's, you know, I'm still a big Taj fan.

00:12:18.549 --> 00:12:18.590
Oh!

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He's

00:12:31.674 --> 00:12:34.422
an incredible soul, and he's got an incredible soul.

00:12:34.785 --> 00:12:42.837
All those things mixed together, and then you got people like Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band coming around, and you listen to all these things.

00:12:42.898 --> 00:12:52.232
I had a 16-year-old guitarist who just passed away a couple years ago who could play exactly like Buddy Guy on It's My Life, the live stuff.

00:12:52.552 --> 00:13:00.725
The whole experience, about the first three or five years of my life, it was just gangbusters, and I learned really quickly.

00:13:01.186 --> 00:13:02.028
Yeah, great time.

00:13:02.087 --> 00:13:04.673
And it sounds like you're in a really creative environment.

00:13:04.774 --> 00:13:08.283
So you moved from California to Austin, Texas.

00:13:08.543 --> 00:13:10.326
I actually moved to Minnesota first.

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I lived in Minneapolis for about a year and a half.

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And then about 75, I moved on to Texas.

00:13:17.985 --> 00:13:20.029
I had been down to visit California.

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Jimmy had been up to visit me in Minneapolis, and we were talking, and I was ready to get out of the cold, you know.

00:13:26.543 --> 00:13:28.225
Plus, I'd run out of people to play with.

00:13:28.505 --> 00:13:32.250
So I went down to, I ended up flying down to Austin.

00:13:32.532 --> 00:13:33.712
That was the start of that.

00:13:34.134 --> 00:13:34.533
Yeah,

00:13:34.553 --> 00:13:34.995
so you

00:13:35.034 --> 00:13:39.841
met Jimmy Vaughn, and that sort of led on to forming the Fabulous Thunderbirds in 1974.

00:13:39.861 --> 00:13:40.383
Yeah,

00:13:41.825 --> 00:13:43.326
then we went through our guys, you know.

00:13:43.366 --> 00:13:44.448
We had a lot of different people.

00:13:44.489 --> 00:13:47.812
And then you got a regular spot playing at Anton's

00:13:47.873 --> 00:13:48.134
Club.

00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:48.791
We would

00:13:48.831 --> 00:13:49.971
do Monday nights down there.

00:13:49.991 --> 00:13:50.032
So

00:13:50.472 --> 00:13:52.255
that was the start of the Fabulous Thunderbirds.

00:13:52.316 --> 00:13:55.860
Is that the start really playing harmonica and singing as your career?

00:13:55.900 --> 00:13:56.662
Oh, no, no.

00:13:57.243 --> 00:13:58.644
It was my career from the beginning.

00:13:59.025 --> 00:14:02.850
I tried to work a day job.

00:14:03.491 --> 00:14:07.278
I had dropped out of school, and I had these kind of menial jobs.

00:14:07.697 --> 00:14:14.288
And finally, I tried to do it, and I said, well, I'm either going to be a musician or a wino.

00:14:14.609 --> 00:14:15.370
That's going to be it.

00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:18.033
And luckily, I ended up being a musician.

00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:18.671
And

00:14:18.711 --> 00:14:19.812
a wino for a while.

00:14:21.596 --> 00:14:24.100
Muddy Waters was influential on you in the early days.

00:14:24.561 --> 00:14:27.886
Did he see you playing with the Fabulous Thunderbirds at Anton's club?

00:14:28.268 --> 00:14:28.609
Yeah.

00:14:29.509 --> 00:14:32.274
What happened was we were opening up for Muddy.

00:14:32.316 --> 00:14:35.081
We would always open up for Muddy if we were in town.

00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.803
And we were in town at the beginning.

00:14:36.844 --> 00:14:37.885
We were in town all the time.

00:14:38.210 --> 00:14:43.554
Everybody kind of walked in like, oh, these guys, you know, like, oh, really?

00:14:43.634 --> 00:14:45.576
I mean, another bunch of guys like this.

00:14:46.077 --> 00:14:50.422
So it was kind of shocking for them to hear us on the first note.

00:14:50.741 --> 00:14:51.802
It kind of blew their minds.

00:14:52.004 --> 00:14:58.649
I mean, there was a dressing room up above the stage at the old Antones and had a curtain on it.

00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:06.518
And we went into this first instrumental we would always do and the curtain flew open and there they were all just gawking at us.

00:15:07.265 --> 00:15:11.432
And, you know, Muddy was a very, very great man to me.

00:15:11.793 --> 00:15:13.816
He was just a great man, period.

00:15:14.456 --> 00:15:15.278
He was royalty.

00:15:15.859 --> 00:15:17.903
You know, he still is royalty.

00:15:18.644 --> 00:15:19.946
He said some very great

00:15:20.025 --> 00:15:20.927
things about me.

00:15:21.528 --> 00:15:25.114
Yeah, he said you were the greatest harmonica player to come along since little Walter.

00:15:25.815 --> 00:15:26.777
That's quite a compliment.

00:15:27.498 --> 00:15:28.700
That's quite a compliment.

00:15:29.921 --> 00:15:30.763
That's really...

00:15:30.903 --> 00:15:35.230
And, of course, it wasn't true, but...

00:15:35.649 --> 00:15:39.134
It made me want it to be true, and I've worked my whole life.

00:15:39.615 --> 00:15:40.476
Did you play with Luddy?

00:15:40.517 --> 00:15:43.301
Did he get you up to do a guest spot when he was playing in the club?

00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:44.022
Oh, yeah.

00:15:44.642 --> 00:15:46.845
You know, we had some incredible times.

00:15:47.586 --> 00:16:03.908
We had some incredible times, you know, just when I met Jerry, of course, and Jerry was one of my dear friends, and people like Bob Margolin and Willie and Fuzz and Pine Cop and Guitar Junior, you know, they were...

00:16:04.961 --> 00:16:07.745
I mentioned Bob Margolin and Bob Margolin, but

00:16:08.386 --> 00:16:08.607
it was

00:16:08.807 --> 00:16:09.809
just a big party.

00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:16.279
I mean, it was incredible, and they came around a lot, and they'd stay for a week every time they'd come.

00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:22.288
We just had a ball, and I'd sit down with Muddy, just me and him, and we'd talk.

00:16:23.009 --> 00:16:31.985
He was an incredible man and an incredibly generous and giving

00:16:32.384 --> 00:16:32.706
man.

00:16:33.057 --> 00:16:36.981
So I'm a massive fan of Muddy Walter, and of course he had all the greatest harmonica players with him.

00:16:37.022 --> 00:16:43.307
So it's great to hear you say that about him, because I've read a couple of biographies, but yeah, it's great to hear that.

00:16:43.447 --> 00:16:50.335
He was a very, very dear person to me, and he was really like my musical father.

00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:01.566
Well, goody, lay it over me when I feel like it.

00:17:02.946 --> 00:17:13.896
You got

00:17:13.936 --> 00:17:22.384
to play with his son, Mud Morganfield, on the album Pops a few years ago, which won an award for a blues music award.

00:17:22.684 --> 00:17:26.229
So that must have been quite a thrill, being so close to Muddy and playing with his son.

00:17:26.308 --> 00:17:26.769
How was that?

00:17:27.450 --> 00:17:27.910
Wonderful.

00:17:28.451 --> 00:17:30.153
You know, the band was great.

00:17:30.432 --> 00:17:31.433
The music was great.

00:17:31.874 --> 00:17:32.795
I was thrilled.

00:17:33.576 --> 00:17:34.037
I was thrilled.

00:17:34.356 --> 00:17:38.702
You know, I think Muddy's got a couple of kids out there that are doing pretty good.

00:17:38.722 --> 00:17:41.145
And I'm happy to see that.

00:17:41.346 --> 00:17:45.392
I'm happy to see that, you know, his name is still there.

00:17:46.594 --> 00:17:49.577
Yeah, Mud comes over to the UK quite regularly.

00:17:49.597 --> 00:17:55.065
So I've seen him play quite a few times and it's great that he's, you know, carrying that music on and obviously doing a lot of his father's songs.

00:17:55.105 --> 00:17:55.945
So it's great to see.

00:18:01.614 --> 00:18:01.693
Yeah.

00:18:02.945 --> 00:18:09.953
Back

00:18:10.013 --> 00:18:11.756
to the Fabulous Thunderbirds then.

00:18:11.895 --> 00:18:16.381
So you released your first album with them in 1979, I think.

00:18:16.560 --> 00:18:21.165
So the title, the Fabulous Thunderbirds, which was a fantastic album.

00:18:21.266 --> 00:18:24.009
And I've got some great harmonica classic songs on there.

00:18:24.068 --> 00:18:32.157
You know, Scratch My Back is long-time being one of my favorite harmonica songs.

00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:44.550
That was a fantastic album.

00:18:45.231 --> 00:18:46.813
Maybe talk about that album a little bit.

00:18:47.294 --> 00:18:55.741
Well, you know, we went in, we went to Summit Burnett Studios in Dallas, and Bob Sullivan was the engineer.

00:18:55.781 --> 00:19:01.287
The first thing he did was come in and play Write Em On Down by Eddie Taylor.

00:19:01.788 --> 00:19:04.349
And we went, okay, we're going to like this guy.

00:19:04.810 --> 00:19:10.415
He started talking about James Burton, and that was the first time he'd ever seen a Fender solid body guitar.

00:19:10.736 --> 00:19:11.757
It was a long time ago.

00:19:13.473 --> 00:19:14.694
That's when they first came out.

00:19:15.516 --> 00:19:21.521
So Bob was a great guy, and everything was done to analog at that time.

00:19:22.222 --> 00:19:25.046
It was done to multitrack, but everything was cut live.

00:19:25.086 --> 00:19:26.807
There wasn't much mixing to be done.

00:19:27.307 --> 00:19:28.209
And we cut everything.

00:19:28.249 --> 00:19:30.090
We cut 40 songs in two days.

00:19:31.451 --> 00:19:34.115
We just kept at least 40 tracks anyway.

00:19:34.474 --> 00:19:35.616
We just kept the good stuff.

00:19:36.237 --> 00:19:37.178
That was pretty much it.

00:19:37.679 --> 00:19:40.862
It was five years, though, since you formed the band until you released the album.

00:19:41.506 --> 00:19:43.749
Yeah, I mean, we were looking for a deal.

00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:56.666
There were lots of times, you know, when even after that record and the subsequent Chrysalis, Tacoma records, there were lots of times when I was going, what the hell am I going to do here?

00:19:57.107 --> 00:20:02.855
I mean, I'm not sure if I can keep doing this, although I wasn't really ever going to quit.

00:20:03.817 --> 00:20:05.900
The work was sketchy, you know,

00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:06.661
it was sketchy.

00:20:07.422 --> 00:20:10.526
So were you still mainly around Austin playing music?

00:20:10.690 --> 00:20:12.051
you know, live gigs at that point?

00:20:12.112 --> 00:20:13.854
Or were you touring before you released the album?

00:20:14.454 --> 00:20:22.546
Well, after we met Muddy, which was 70, that might have been 75, maybe 76.

00:20:22.946 --> 00:20:24.828
After we met Muddy, Muddy put the word out.

00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:27.492
So immediately we were on the road.

00:20:27.893 --> 00:20:30.757
We were going to Maine, a lot to New England at that time.

00:20:30.777 --> 00:20:39.829
I remember in 1978, we played the San Francisco Blues Festival and we made a pretty big splash there.

00:20:40.193 --> 00:20:42.817
We had been working our way up.

00:20:42.997 --> 00:20:49.903
I think the reason why we had a hit record is because really all these people had been coming out to see us for years.

00:20:49.984 --> 00:20:53.848
And they finally, we all got on the same page and just bought the record.

00:20:53.868 --> 00:20:55.289
But we'd been playing and playing.

00:20:55.309 --> 00:21:00.296
I mean, we were doing 250, 300 days a year on the road.

00:21:00.976 --> 00:21:02.438
And when we were home, we'd be playing.

00:21:02.458 --> 00:21:05.902
We'd be playing behind Eddie Taylor over at Antone's or, you know.

00:21:06.433 --> 00:21:07.154
Wherever.

00:21:07.194 --> 00:21:11.240
Our Monday night gig changed to the Rome Inn.

00:21:12.060 --> 00:21:13.383
That was an incredible gig.

00:21:13.542 --> 00:21:13.743
So

00:21:14.625 --> 00:21:25.278
I think that five years before, that's why that's such a great first album then because you guys must have been so tight and you had some great material after all that touring.

00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:27.821
Yeah, we played everything we knew, basically.

00:21:28.363 --> 00:21:33.589
That's why it was so difficult to come up with material later on because we'd already done all of it.

00:21:34.241 --> 00:21:36.105
And so we had to work on...

00:21:36.325 --> 00:21:38.869
I was writing a lot of blues back then.

00:21:38.910 --> 00:21:39.510
That was cool.

00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:41.634
And I got a lot of songs on those records.

00:21:42.375 --> 00:21:43.616
I'm very proud of those songs.

00:21:44.278 --> 00:21:48.484
You had some commercial success with Tough Enough and Wrap It Up.

00:21:48.505 --> 00:21:52.992
So you had some sort of top 40 hits with the Fabulous Thunderbirds with those songs.

00:21:53.493 --> 00:21:55.777
Actually, Tough Enough was top 10.

00:21:56.458 --> 00:22:00.484
I think Wrap It Up was 40 and there were other ones that were in the top 100.

00:22:01.698 --> 00:22:08.633
Back then, you had AOR Radio here in the States, so we had several top tens in the AOR.

00:22:09.394 --> 00:22:16.690
In the UK, we had a pretty big kind of thing with You Ain't Nothing But Fine.

00:22:17.026 --> 00:22:20.951
So the Fabulous Thunderbirds style was quite a mixture, wasn't it?

00:22:20.971 --> 00:22:24.336
It was rock and roll-y, blues, bits of Cajun music.

00:22:24.656 --> 00:22:28.501
So it was a bit more mainstream than just pure blues, wasn't it?

00:22:28.682 --> 00:22:37.756
Was that partly to become more commercial and looking for that sort of success, or was that just the way the band was naturally going and what sort of music it

00:22:38.036 --> 00:22:38.256
was playing?

00:22:38.276 --> 00:22:42.583
Well, you know, that first Cotton record was the Bible to me.

00:22:42.702 --> 00:22:44.685
I played in every band...

00:22:45.185 --> 00:22:47.448
using that variation of material.

00:22:47.508 --> 00:22:49.750
Then we added a little rock and roll later on.

00:22:50.471 --> 00:22:54.755
I mean, at first, it was pretty much just all shuffles.

00:22:55.455 --> 00:22:56.596
But it didn't take too long.

00:22:56.636 --> 00:23:08.929
We started learning Scratch My Back and things like that, and stuff by Rockin' Sidney, stuff by Lonnie Brooks, who was Guitar Junior, on the records we learned from, like The Crawl and those kind of things.

00:23:08.949 --> 00:23:10.530
That kind of built up.

00:23:10.590 --> 00:23:17.638
And then we had a couple of British producers come We had Nick Lowe on our last Chrysalis record.

00:23:17.679 --> 00:23:21.304
And that kind of pushed things, that kind of moved things up a little bit.

00:23:21.683 --> 00:23:23.226
And then Dave Edmonds called.

00:23:23.707 --> 00:23:27.392
We went over to the UK, to London to record.

00:23:27.432 --> 00:23:32.878
That really was something special as far as just watching it.

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.384
I think the band was maturing at that time.

00:23:37.005 --> 00:23:42.511
And especially me, I think that maybe my singing was getting a little better.

00:23:42.531 --> 00:24:02.085
Maybe, you know, What people don't realize is that that record sat from about 1983 to about 1985, and we were looking for someone because the original label that we recorded that for went bankrupt.

00:24:02.565 --> 00:24:04.768
And so those tapes sat there.

00:24:04.807 --> 00:24:16.343
So finally, you know, after going around and around, We went back to CBS Records and Tony Martell said, I want to tell you guys, I think I can sell this.

00:24:16.762 --> 00:24:17.064
So which

00:24:17.084 --> 00:24:17.744
album?

00:24:17.765 --> 00:24:18.546
That's Tough Enough.

00:24:19.186 --> 00:24:20.147
Yeah, that's Tough Enough.

00:24:20.208 --> 00:24:22.050
So Dave Edmonds recorded that in England.

00:24:33.246 --> 00:24:34.606
But it sat there for quite a while.

00:24:35.008 --> 00:24:37.171
We didn't know if it was ever going to get released even.

00:24:37.991 --> 00:24:45.184
And finally, you know, The beautiful thing about Tony Martell was he started his own label in the CBS Epic family.

00:24:45.204 --> 00:24:56.419
So we were able to access all of the people, all of the promotional people, everybody, and get kind of a taste of what the real business was like at that time.

00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:02.467
And to watch it climb the charts, that was also an incredible experience.

00:25:02.807 --> 00:25:04.148
We really almost kind of did it.

00:25:05.070 --> 00:25:07.614
And Nick Lowe and Dave Edmonds had a huge play in this.

00:25:08.097 --> 00:25:12.963
They had a huge play in our contemporary success.

00:25:13.744 --> 00:25:23.376
And they were very, very cool because they were real musicians who loved real music, and they attacked both those records with that attitude.

00:25:23.797 --> 00:25:34.049
And we really didn't have to do anything too much different than our own kind of metamorphosis, our own natural metamorphosis.

00:25:34.594 --> 00:25:37.198
You formed your own band in the 90s for the first time.

00:25:37.218 --> 00:25:37.838
Was that right?

00:25:37.959 --> 00:25:40.241
Yeah, I think it was 1990.

00:25:40.402 --> 00:25:45.250
I had a manager at that time who was telling me, you know, harmonica really doesn't sell.

00:25:45.269 --> 00:25:48.153
I don't think you should be playing as much of it.

00:25:48.654 --> 00:25:50.978
And I went, okay, well, guess what?

00:25:51.499 --> 00:25:52.901
I'm going to go over here and do this.

00:25:52.980 --> 00:26:00.090
I'll keep doing this, but I'm going to go over here with Anton and do that also because I have to satisfy that part of myself.

00:26:00.652 --> 00:26:01.894
So you went across...

00:26:02.273 --> 00:26:07.820
particularly to go and cut more pure blues records and to make them more heavily harmonica-based.

00:26:08.402 --> 00:26:11.286
Talking about Tiger Man, I think that was your first solo album.

00:26:11.626 --> 00:26:14.550
Again, some classic harmonica cuts on there.

00:26:15.230 --> 00:26:20.397
The song I really love on there is Come Back Baby, but you also do Trust My Baby by Sonny Boy.

00:26:20.438 --> 00:26:30.050
That's quite a brave song to take on, isn't it?

00:26:30.070 --> 00:26:36.742
Come Back Baby You

00:26:39.665 --> 00:26:42.409
know, what about that song, and taking that one on?

00:26:43.089 --> 00:26:46.213
Well, really the problem with that song for me is the singing.

00:26:46.394 --> 00:26:47.555
The harmonic is not bad.

00:26:48.316 --> 00:26:52.380
And you don't really want to go in there trying to sound like Sonny Boy anyway.

00:26:53.201 --> 00:26:54.823
You know, you want to be sounding like yourself.

00:26:54.982 --> 00:26:55.624
That's how you do it.

00:26:55.844 --> 00:26:58.267
We do quite a few covers on that whole record.

00:26:59.167 --> 00:27:03.712
I will say that there's some pretty good chromatic harmonic on that record, and...

00:27:04.993 --> 00:27:08.060
When the Lights Go Out, that Jimmy Witherspoon song.

00:27:08.762 --> 00:27:11.128
That's a really good performance.

00:27:13.895 --> 00:27:19.869
When the lights go out.

00:27:29.377 --> 00:27:31.981
And also the instrumentals are pretty good.

00:27:32.001 --> 00:27:36.549
You know, I was able, you know, in 1988, I stopped drinking.

00:27:36.990 --> 00:27:44.362
What's wild is that's when that, that's when we recorded that live Jimmy Rogers and actually the new Della for Antones.

00:27:44.923 --> 00:27:47.586
I don't know when exactly that came out, but we recorded it.

00:27:48.208 --> 00:27:51.053
Actually, we had recorded part of that in 87, I think.

00:27:51.854 --> 00:27:53.938
We didn't have quite enough studio stuff.

00:27:54.273 --> 00:27:57.137
And I was wondering what we were going to do with that.

00:27:57.199 --> 00:27:59.461
And then I was driving around California.

00:27:59.481 --> 00:28:01.125
I remember it was raining.

00:28:01.204 --> 00:28:04.730
And I was playing all these Antone's Anniversary tapes.

00:28:04.789 --> 00:28:05.731
And this thing came on.

00:28:05.771 --> 00:28:06.553
And I went, wow.

00:28:07.273 --> 00:28:08.135
Well, that's pretty good.

00:28:08.195 --> 00:28:09.857
And then I said, you know, we can use that.

00:28:09.897 --> 00:28:11.259
And that will fill it out great.

00:28:11.320 --> 00:28:12.221
And it worked pretty well.

00:28:12.923 --> 00:28:16.127
You know, I think that's right when I got sober.

00:28:16.147 --> 00:28:17.028
1988.

00:28:17.430 --> 00:28:21.375
After that, things really progressed in a major way for me.

00:28:21.797 --> 00:28:22.438
You know, I think...

00:28:23.041 --> 00:28:30.771
The only reason I was any good at all is because I had the harmonica in my mouth so much up until that time that I didn't lose too many chops.

00:28:30.832 --> 00:28:45.029
But after that, it became more real music to me, and I could take it more seriously, and I felt better about my own playing, and that gradually went on.

00:28:45.871 --> 00:28:51.397
I'm not totally convinced about everything on that record, but it's not bad.

00:28:51.713 --> 00:28:59.305
When I hear stuff like when the lights go out and the instrumentals, I say, okay, that'll work.

00:29:00.486 --> 00:29:02.209
The whole thing is you've got to realize something.

00:29:02.829 --> 00:29:04.291
Blues is a vocal music.

00:29:04.853 --> 00:29:07.977
It's not about the harmonica or the guitar or anything else.

00:29:08.438 --> 00:29:10.540
You've got to be able to deliver a song.

00:29:11.321 --> 00:29:14.145
For a white guy, that's not easy to do.

00:29:14.185 --> 00:29:23.549
So I think that over the years, I've really come a long way to be able to sing this music.

00:29:24.029 --> 00:29:25.932
That was the beginning of it right there in 1988.

00:29:26.011 --> 00:29:29.817
I'd already been playing, what, 15 years, 14 years.

00:29:30.416 --> 00:29:34.121
I still wasn't quite there yet in my mind, but some of that stuff works.

00:29:34.902 --> 00:29:38.526
And that was a big, big boost of confidence for me.

00:29:39.366 --> 00:29:43.991
So you had your own project, but the Thunderbirds kept going through all this time.

00:29:44.011 --> 00:29:48.477
You've always kept that going all the time, and it's still going strong now, the Thunderbirds,

00:29:48.497 --> 00:29:49.057
yeah?

00:29:49.077 --> 00:29:49.438
Oh, yeah.

00:29:49.730 --> 00:29:52.532
Lots of different incarnations, lots of different band members.

00:29:52.692 --> 00:29:54.634
You mentioned earlier on you've done lots of touring.

00:29:54.654 --> 00:29:56.837
You've always toured a lot throughout your career.

00:29:57.038 --> 00:29:57.939
That's been a big part.

00:29:57.979 --> 00:29:59.740
That's something you've been really passionate to do.

00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:01.782
You like to get out there on the road and play live.

00:30:02.223 --> 00:30:02.544
Of course.

00:30:04.365 --> 00:30:08.190
What I'm doing now is I've got a big project for the T-Bridge coming up.

00:30:08.851 --> 00:30:12.654
I think we're going to have a lot of really high-profile guest artists.

00:30:13.096 --> 00:30:14.477
That's something I can let out now.

00:30:15.298 --> 00:30:17.039
What we need to do is get the material together.

00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:22.314
My bass player, Steve Gomes, this guy's a hell of a songwriter.

00:30:22.714 --> 00:30:25.238
So we put our heads together on a trip.

00:30:25.638 --> 00:30:29.503
About three or four days, he came out to the house and we came up with some pretty good stuff.

00:30:29.584 --> 00:30:31.487
And I've been writing a little bit since then as well.

00:30:31.527 --> 00:30:37.275
So, I mean, it's really kind of frustrating going through what we're going through right now because I'd be on the road.

00:30:38.096 --> 00:30:44.526
Luckily, I was able to do that blues band routine at the end of February through mid-March.

00:30:45.057 --> 00:30:48.362
I was very satisfying, and I'm glad we did that.

00:30:48.501 --> 00:30:51.125
Then we had the blues cruise before that, then everything shut down.

00:30:51.806 --> 00:30:55.410
I feel for all these musicians who can't go out.

00:30:55.891 --> 00:30:59.134
It's really not, you could say it's about making a living, but that's not it.

00:30:59.555 --> 00:31:02.259
It's about, it tears a hole out of you.

00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:08.026
Not to be able to perform in front of people or in the studio.

00:31:08.486 --> 00:31:10.929
You know, you sit at home and play, blah, blah, blah.

00:31:11.349 --> 00:31:14.713
That's okay, but it's very, very distressing.

00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:15.951
not to

00:31:16.010 --> 00:31:17.773
be able to go play.

00:31:18.253 --> 00:31:22.720
Let's hope it doesn't go on for too long and we see you back on the road hopefully later this year.

00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:28.969
I've got gigs booked in August right now, but I don't know if that's going to happen.

00:31:29.169 --> 00:31:34.416
Going back to your playing live, I wanted to ask you about your solo piece.

00:31:34.777 --> 00:31:43.087
You generally do this solo piece where you start off with a band and then you go to do the chord tapping thing and then you do this solo piece.

00:31:45.922 --> 00:32:05.546
Could

00:32:05.566 --> 00:32:08.849
you talk about that a little while and how you devised this solo piece of yours?

00:32:08.890 --> 00:32:11.232
Well, I didn't really devise it.

00:32:11.834 --> 00:32:12.734
I mean, it just happened.

00:32:13.375 --> 00:32:15.198
It happened one night and...

00:32:15.682 --> 00:32:17.904
I didn't really do it for a while after that.

00:32:17.964 --> 00:32:20.729
And then I decided, you know, that went over pretty well.

00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:28.862
Most people have grandparents, grandfathers who probably played the harmonica at some point.

00:32:29.501 --> 00:32:30.763
It's a very portable instrument.

00:32:30.804 --> 00:32:32.247
You could play it in the trenches.

00:32:33.107 --> 00:32:36.333
The harmonica was really made for pocus.

00:32:37.034 --> 00:32:38.816
That's why the Germans developed it.

00:32:38.915 --> 00:32:46.907
They didn't even realize they had made something as crazy as this blues instrument that gone insane.

00:32:47.468 --> 00:32:48.489
So many people play it now.

00:32:48.970 --> 00:32:56.877
That beginning piece of the instrumental is just kind of a polka type thing except to a shuffle.

00:32:57.618 --> 00:32:58.941
And it's played to an amplifier.

00:32:59.421 --> 00:33:01.323
You can hear me doing it in other things.

00:33:01.383 --> 00:33:12.955
I also have this other thing I do by myself on the encore where I'll do a Sonny Boy Williams song with a low F with welded together reed plates.

00:33:13.096 --> 00:33:14.657
I don't know if you've seen those Feliscos.

00:33:15.170 --> 00:33:16.811
Felisco does all my harmonicas.

00:33:17.211 --> 00:33:17.893
He does all of them.

00:33:18.953 --> 00:33:19.654
He's a genius.

00:33:20.214 --> 00:33:25.560
So he devised this thing, this low F welded together two reed plates.

00:33:25.881 --> 00:33:25.941
A

00:33:25.961 --> 00:33:27.422
double reed plate, as they call it.

00:33:27.442 --> 00:33:28.063
Is it one of those?

00:33:28.363 --> 00:33:31.967
I guess you could call it a double reed plate, but it's not a double reed.

00:33:32.027 --> 00:33:32.607
It's not like a...

00:33:33.288 --> 00:33:36.551
No, just two reed plates, but with one reed going between them.

00:33:37.011 --> 00:33:37.613
Exactly.

00:33:38.053 --> 00:33:38.554
I know about them.

00:33:38.594 --> 00:33:41.056
I've never actually tried one, but I keep meaning to try one of those.

00:33:41.676 --> 00:33:42.116
They're very

00:33:42.196 --> 00:33:42.478
loud.

00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:44.452
They're great for acoustically.

00:33:44.492 --> 00:33:51.107
You can't bend them too much because they go flat so easily because the reed has much farther to travel through if you do bend it.

00:33:51.147 --> 00:33:53.613
So you've got to watch that.

00:33:53.733 --> 00:33:56.179
That song has a lot of chords by me.

00:33:56.199 --> 00:33:59.145
I play Nine Below Zero.

00:33:59.554 --> 00:33:59.953
on that.

00:34:00.375 --> 00:34:02.777
It's on YouTube all over the place.

00:34:02.836 --> 00:34:03.377
You can hear it.

00:34:23.197 --> 00:34:28.501
You know, the instrumental, the fast instrumental is a very, very difficult thing to play right.

00:34:28.961 --> 00:34:30.143
You have to relax.

00:34:30.364 --> 00:34:32.246
You can't be just flying around.

00:34:32.266 --> 00:34:37.175
Nothing worse than a hummingbird on methadrine.

00:34:37.556 --> 00:34:39.518
And that's what a lot of people sound like to me.

00:34:39.918 --> 00:34:40.740
You've got to relax.

00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:41.963
You've got to tell a story.

00:34:42.003 --> 00:34:43.505
You've got to have a sound.

00:34:44.005 --> 00:34:45.849
First and foremost, you have to have a sound.

00:34:46.329 --> 00:34:49.990
I think that is the thing about that solo piece is that It is that.

00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:50.992
It is quite relaxed.

00:34:51.353 --> 00:34:54.498
You know, you don't, like you said, go too crazy on it.

00:34:54.577 --> 00:34:58.885
It keeps a very strong rhythm and it maintains interest because it's like 10 minutes, isn't it?

00:34:58.925 --> 00:35:01.509
So I think that's what's so strong about that solo piece that you do.

00:35:01.628 --> 00:35:04.853
Do you generally play, is it more or less the same every time?

00:35:05.195 --> 00:35:05.876
It's never the same.

00:35:06.135 --> 00:35:07.197
No, it's never the same.

00:35:07.277 --> 00:35:10.021
I mean, there are little pieces of it that might work out to be the same.

00:35:10.443 --> 00:35:11.324
It's all improvised.

00:35:12.106 --> 00:35:14.929
There's a couple of little melodic things I might do in there.

00:35:14.969 --> 00:35:17.293
The whole thing about it is...

00:35:17.889 --> 00:35:19.552
And this is how I learned how to play.

00:35:19.592 --> 00:35:23.137
Of course, I learned how to play from Will Walter.

00:35:23.177 --> 00:35:26.059
I learned how to play from George Smith, James Cotton, all the guys.

00:35:26.721 --> 00:35:28.023
And I would copy the solos.

00:35:29.043 --> 00:35:32.188
I wouldn't copy the solos and play them on the bandstand ever.

00:35:32.507 --> 00:35:40.338
But what I would do, because I realized this is going to be a very frustrating life if I don't make it my own.

00:35:40.929 --> 00:35:46.195
I would add little bits and pieces onto the solos that I copied and little parts in the middle.

00:35:46.675 --> 00:35:48.797
I would, you know, tweak them a little bit.

00:35:48.818 --> 00:35:52.762
And then finally, they all just kind of ran together.

00:35:52.963 --> 00:35:55.125
And of course, here's another thing, too.

00:35:55.425 --> 00:35:59.989
You really have to have a lot of different influences, not just Walter.

00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:04.856
Walter, of course, was the greatest of all time and always will be.

00:36:16.994 --> 00:36:17.253
I

00:36:17.373 --> 00:36:22.561
don't

00:36:22.621 --> 00:36:23.762
see anybody going to beat him.

00:36:24.163 --> 00:36:29.769
If you're going to know people like James Cotton and George Smith and both the Sonny boys, I'm a big Rice Miller guy.

00:36:30.409 --> 00:36:33.554
That would really disturb Billy Bernardo because he hated Rice Miller.

00:36:34.094 --> 00:36:37.559
Slim Harpo, Lazy Lester, Big Walter, of course.

00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:43.766
You know, the whole thing is too really, I mean, you can go in and you can knock off licks and that's fine.

00:36:44.807 --> 00:36:46.510
If you don't have a sound, forget the licks.

00:36:46.818 --> 00:36:50.605
You better work on a sound before you even try and learn a lick.

00:36:51.786 --> 00:36:57.617
But what you do is, after a certain point, you surround yourself with the music.

00:36:58.298 --> 00:36:59.320
That's what I do every day.

00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:08.938
I listen to it not just for enjoyment, but for it to totally soak in the attack.

00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:11.222
I got news for you people.

00:37:11.617 --> 00:37:13.159
Don't listen to one modern thing.

00:37:13.460 --> 00:37:23.793
I mean, there might be a couple things that I've done and a couple other things that other people have done, but if you want to get deep into this music, you've got to go to the people who invented it.

00:37:23.893 --> 00:37:34.088
That's why I have a little more of an advantage, along with a few other players, because I've been able to work with those guys in person, and I loved them.

00:37:34.288 --> 00:37:43.766
So, you know, whether it be jazz, whether it be blues, jazz, Good old rock and roll, you know, Chuck Berry, Little Richard.

00:37:44.387 --> 00:37:45.748
Surround yourself with it.

00:37:46.228 --> 00:37:48.030
You don't need to sit there and study it.

00:37:48.650 --> 00:37:56.057
Usually the studying is done pretty much by the time you get to the point where you just listen to it for enjoyment.

00:37:56.759 --> 00:37:58.521
Actually, the studying is really never done.

00:37:59.041 --> 00:38:04.226
But to surround yourself with the music, get the vibe, get how they attack it.

00:38:04.947 --> 00:38:07.028
So, so, so important to get

00:38:07.128 --> 00:38:07.268
how

00:38:07.329 --> 00:38:07.889
they attack

00:38:07.969 --> 00:38:08.030
it.

00:38:08.449 --> 00:38:11.594
As you say, you listened to lots of different sorts of music.

00:38:11.614 --> 00:38:14.557
You mentioned lots of the classic harmonica players there.

00:38:15.099 --> 00:38:17.842
But do you think you learned on the bandstand as much as anything?

00:38:17.862 --> 00:38:21.586
It sounds like you were outperforming a lot from quite a young age.

00:38:22.168 --> 00:38:23.389
I learned on the bandstand.

00:38:23.409 --> 00:38:26.152
It was a funny thing with me.

00:38:26.213 --> 00:38:28.155
It was like going to the trombone.

00:38:29.077 --> 00:38:33.342
Literally, I was in a band three months after I started playing because I could sing.

00:38:33.561 --> 00:38:35.684
So harmonica was kind of on-the-job training.

00:38:35.724 --> 00:38:36.005
And then...

00:38:36.514 --> 00:38:40.418
I was on the job for like thousands of shows.

00:38:41.659 --> 00:38:46.505
Being highly self-medicated back then, I mean, it's a good thing I had that harmonically in my face.

00:38:46.605 --> 00:38:48.847
Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing much right now.

00:38:49.469 --> 00:38:53.253
Back then, when you started out in the 70s playing, it sounds like it was a great scene.

00:38:53.293 --> 00:38:57.898
Have you any advice for bands now about how to get going and how to make it?

00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.240
Well, don't think about making it.

00:39:00.621 --> 00:39:01.521
Do it for enjoyment.

00:39:02.063 --> 00:39:02.744
Get out there.

00:39:03.445 --> 00:39:04.425
I would suggest this.

00:39:05.121 --> 00:39:13.614
Don't go to the jams unless you've got your own band and you can get up there with your own band and play the jam and play for, you know, three, five songs and get out of there.

00:39:14.476 --> 00:39:21.085
So unless the guys on the bandstand are high, high, high caliber, otherwise you're not going to get good.

00:39:21.646 --> 00:39:25.371
But as far as making it, I wouldn't even think about making it.

00:39:25.711 --> 00:39:27.655
Just think about doing the best that you can do.

00:39:28.516 --> 00:39:31.039
Just think about really saying something.

00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:34.626
So many people, you know, for one thing, you've got to realize something.

00:39:35.041 --> 00:39:37.025
A lot of people don't get it.

00:39:37.565 --> 00:39:43.014
A lot of people think that this stuff out here that they're hearing is what they're supposed to be listening to.

00:39:43.074 --> 00:39:46.320
And if you're talking about blues, that ain't it.

00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:48.563
Compare yourself to the old guys.

00:39:49.083 --> 00:39:50.867
Don't compare yourself to anyone modern.

00:39:51.507 --> 00:39:55.434
If you can stack up to that, even remotely, you're doing something.

00:39:55.635 --> 00:39:57.336
Concentrate on a sound.

00:39:57.818 --> 00:40:00.021
Always on a sound first.

00:40:00.481 --> 00:40:05.510
You put a lot of store by that, you know, really having an identity, developing yourself, not going to jams.

00:40:05.550 --> 00:40:10.639
I think a lot of people do go to jams, don't they, thinking they might meet people, get a little bit of exposure.

00:40:11.139 --> 00:40:14.865
But for you, it's about developing your own sound and your own personality up there.

00:40:15.327 --> 00:40:19.534
I mean, you really have to play with people that are on the same page as you.

00:40:20.235 --> 00:40:21.717
That's pretty difficult to find.

00:40:22.358 --> 00:40:28.320
But if you find somebody that's on the same page, it might not be that great, but They're still on the same page.

00:40:28.659 --> 00:40:31.563
They still have the same love for the same type of stuff that you do.

00:40:32.304 --> 00:40:41.213
You know, you can develop some great camaraderies and really learn a lot between each other, bouncing things back and forth.

00:40:41.313 --> 00:40:46.920
If you get, you know, one to four to five guys that all see it the same way.

00:40:47.181 --> 00:40:48.802
It's not easy to do, like I say.

00:40:49.182 --> 00:40:52.726
And, you know, lots of times these people happen early, early, early on.

00:40:53.568 --> 00:40:55.230
Don't listen to compliments, right?

00:40:55.393 --> 00:40:55.875
Ever.

00:40:56.235 --> 00:40:57.416
Compliments are very nice.

00:40:57.536 --> 00:40:58.277
I thrive on them.

00:40:58.918 --> 00:41:01.521
And what Muddy Waters said about me was incredible.

00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:06.385
If I would have rested my laurels on that, it wouldn't ever happen for me.

00:41:06.827 --> 00:41:07.827
Play for enjoyment.

00:41:08.327 --> 00:41:11.251
Play to be a badass.

00:41:11.692 --> 00:41:13.914
To be the top of the food chain.

00:41:14.494 --> 00:41:18.199
So talking about your actual playing style, you know, it's got a very full sound.

00:41:18.518 --> 00:41:19.460
You know, play octaves.

00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:20.641
It's got a big sound.

00:41:20.994 --> 00:41:27.722
great tone did you develop your style deliberately did it just come through from you know playing from all the guys that you love listening to

00:41:28.184 --> 00:41:51.130
yeah it was trial and error you know listening to all the great people playing along with all the great people listening to the different kinds of sounds they got you know that's very very important also that flat distorted attack that's okay for maybe a song or two on a record maybe a song or two during a night and That's not all of it.

00:41:51.271 --> 00:41:57.981
There's a richness to the harmonica that if you have too much distortion, you don't hear it.

00:41:58.382 --> 00:42:00.405
Little Walter is a prime example of that.

00:42:00.764 --> 00:42:03.469
Little Walter had so many different kinds of sounds.

00:42:03.489 --> 00:42:08.737
Of course, I know that he played through whatever was in the studio at the time.

00:42:09.117 --> 00:42:11.179
Whatever it was, he owned it.

00:42:11.780 --> 00:42:14.786
If he was getting a certain kind of sound that day, he owned it.

00:42:15.362 --> 00:42:21.088
It's one thing, you know, when someone gives you, let's say you've got a rental gear somewhere and you're playing through an amp that you don't like.

00:42:21.128 --> 00:42:24.833
Well, you have to figure out a way to richen up that

00:42:24.934 --> 00:42:25.434
sound.

00:42:26.315 --> 00:42:30.300
I was going to ask you about being the front man in the band, being the front man and being the singer.

00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:32.483
You know, how important do you think that is?

00:42:32.503 --> 00:42:34.264
It's the most important thing,

00:42:34.684 --> 00:42:35.025
period.

00:42:35.326 --> 00:42:38.289
Being a singer and a band leader is the most important thing.

00:42:38.909 --> 00:42:41.072
I take a lot of pride in not having a set list.

00:42:41.432 --> 00:42:42.715
I never use one, ever.

00:42:43.175 --> 00:42:44.998
And I know those guys know what I'm going to do.

00:42:45.601 --> 00:42:50.027
Somewhere the song before, I'll be thinking of the next song.

00:42:50.409 --> 00:42:59.021
And depending on the audience, depending on what I want to play, depending on what I like, you know, and yes, you must learn how to sing.

00:42:59.402 --> 00:43:02.126
Otherwise, there's no sense in doing it.

00:43:02.485 --> 00:43:02.686
Because

00:43:02.726 --> 00:43:02.867
like

00:43:02.907 --> 00:43:04.829
I told you before, it's a vocal music.

00:43:05.331 --> 00:43:07.673
So you did spend a lot of time developing your singing.

00:43:07.733 --> 00:43:10.157
As you said, you felt you got better further into your career.

00:43:10.518 --> 00:43:13.001
So you deliberately concentrated on your singing.

00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:15.592
Well, you know, a lot of that was on stage as well.

00:43:16.153 --> 00:43:21.420
When you can finally stand to listen to yourself on a recording, you're making some headway.

00:43:22.802 --> 00:43:25.846
You have played with lots of different people, some big names.

00:43:25.865 --> 00:43:27.367
You played with Bonnie Raitt a lot.

00:43:27.568 --> 00:43:29.550
You played with Eric Clapson, played with Buddy Guy.

00:43:29.630 --> 00:43:32.135
So have you enjoyed playing as a sideman with those guys?

00:43:32.655 --> 00:43:34.757
I've got to give a shout-out to Mark Knopfler.

00:43:35.259 --> 00:43:40.266
You know, I went over there to record with him, and that was a fantastic experience.

00:43:40.706 --> 00:43:42.148
Recording with Bonnie, of course.

00:43:42.347 --> 00:43:43.369
She's just beautiful.

00:43:43.429 --> 00:43:48.094
She's just an incredibly wonderful human being.

00:43:48.596 --> 00:43:49.717
They've all been great to me.

00:43:49.737 --> 00:43:51.480
I have fun every time I go in.

00:43:51.980 --> 00:43:53.242
You play some blues chromatic.

00:43:53.262 --> 00:43:54.322
You play a lot of blues chromatic.

00:43:54.342 --> 00:43:55.103
Some great stuff.

00:44:20.226 --> 00:44:24.918
What's your approach with blues chromatic and how maybe that differs from playing the diatonic?

00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:29.748
My approach is I kind of divide up George Smith and Little Walter.

00:44:29.789 --> 00:44:33.418
I'll use the button maybe a little more than either one of those guys.

00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:37.889
Although I used to hear George play Misty.

00:44:49.826 --> 00:44:52.409
Everybody says George is the king of the chromatic.

00:44:52.530 --> 00:44:53.431
I beg to differ.

00:44:53.851 --> 00:44:55.813
Little Walter is a genius on the chromatic.

00:44:56.313 --> 00:44:58.036
Now, George was great, fantastic.

00:44:58.577 --> 00:45:07.068
To see George really, I mean, you had to see George live to really get the full gist of George.

00:45:07.789 --> 00:45:10.273
Back then, he used to play through the PA.

00:45:10.293 --> 00:45:11.293
He didn't even have an app.

00:45:11.614 --> 00:45:14.577
He did have an app, but he didn't use it on the gigs.

00:45:14.858 --> 00:45:15.739
He used it at the studio.

00:45:16.059 --> 00:45:17.181
His sound was incredible.

00:45:17.793 --> 00:45:18.695
You can play through the PA.

00:45:18.775 --> 00:45:20.398
Of course, PAs were cheaper back then.

00:45:20.617 --> 00:45:23.903
You can get a little distortion out of them.

00:45:24.143 --> 00:45:24.985
They sounded a lot

00:45:25.025 --> 00:45:25.306
better.

00:45:26.067 --> 00:45:35.302
A question I'm asking each time is if you had 10 minutes to practice or if you were recommending somebody who only had 10 minutes to practice, what would you do in that 10 minutes?

00:45:35.521 --> 00:45:37.304
Well, it depends on what stage you're at already.

00:45:37.844 --> 00:45:51.981
If I had 10 minutes to practice and I was just a very, very beginner, I would learn how to tongue block pucker, tongue block pucker, tongue block pucker to make it sound exactly the same, depending on whatever hole you want to go in.

00:45:52.001 --> 00:45:56.166
And then I would work on trying to bend the note.

00:45:56.807 --> 00:45:58.090
And that would be it, you know.

00:45:58.594 --> 00:46:02.219
And a Felisco is going to hate me for this, but I do a lot of puckering.

00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.081
I do a lot of tongue blocking as well.

00:46:04.422 --> 00:46:08.246
I kind of added tongue blocking on the low notes later on in life.

00:46:08.887 --> 00:46:10.871
And I think that there's certain...

00:46:11.452 --> 00:46:13.855
I guarantee a little Walter did not tongue block all the time.

00:46:14.014 --> 00:46:14.416
Did not.

00:46:14.715 --> 00:46:15.277
I can hear it.

00:46:15.657 --> 00:46:18.942
And there's certain transitional notes that you can't get otherwise.

00:46:19.922 --> 00:46:23.949
And there's certain ways the harmonica sounds that you can't get otherwise.

00:46:23.969 --> 00:46:27.313
You have to be able to get a lot of different sounds...

00:46:27.777 --> 00:46:28.739
on the instrument.

00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:33.405
I think a lot of people listen to you, you know, you got great tone and a big sound.

00:46:33.465 --> 00:46:36.409
A lot of people would guess that you were tongue-blocking all the time.

00:46:36.469 --> 00:46:39.853
So it's interesting to hear that you do switch between them quite often.

00:46:39.954 --> 00:46:42.896
So yeah, it shows that, like you said, puckering definitely has its place.

00:46:43.277 --> 00:46:43.938
I'll tell you something.

00:46:44.018 --> 00:46:46.862
I went to Belisco's class up in Chicago.

00:46:47.744 --> 00:46:50.567
I did that to him in front of the class.

00:46:51.228 --> 00:46:53.911
Okay, which one's tongue-blocking, which one's a pucker?

00:46:54.713 --> 00:46:55.634
He couldn't tell the difference.

00:46:56.193 --> 00:47:05.867
And, you know, so that means you have this whole wide variation of sounds that you can get that you didn't have by just tongue block.

00:47:06.427 --> 00:47:09.811
There's different ways to tongue block and get different sounds as well.

00:47:10.211 --> 00:47:12.335
But most people, they don't, you know, they just stop.

00:47:12.695 --> 00:47:18.842
The variation in sound is huge in the harmonica, as it is in the guitar or any other instrument.

00:47:19.463 --> 00:47:23.449
To go up there with a Shure Hot CR...

00:47:24.577 --> 00:47:27.605
And get this kind of whatever it is.

00:47:27.625 --> 00:47:28.967
I don't even know what you call it.

00:47:29.027 --> 00:47:31.032
You know, you got a couple pedals up there.

00:47:31.414 --> 00:47:33.599
Hey, if you absolutely need a pedal, fine.

00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:35.722
I wouldn't have a pedal rack.

00:47:36.525 --> 00:47:37.827
Every now and then I use a pedal.

00:47:38.228 --> 00:47:40.253
I have to because it's the kind of stuff that I rent.

00:47:40.610 --> 00:47:43.072
I can't fly with my gear.

00:47:43.152 --> 00:47:44.054
I have to rent things.

00:47:44.175 --> 00:47:46.577
It's a real struggle sometimes.

00:47:46.597 --> 00:47:50.443
So that's why I'm so well-versed in this rental gear and getting a sound out of

00:47:50.523 --> 00:47:50.804
it.

00:47:51.184 --> 00:47:52.326
You're a harmonica of choice.

00:47:52.405 --> 00:47:53.987
I think you're a Horner and Dorsey.

00:47:54.108 --> 00:47:54.628
Is that right?

00:47:55.148 --> 00:47:56.411
I am a Horner and Dorsey, yes.

00:47:57.893 --> 00:48:00.777
Joe Flisco's custom harmonicas exclusively, do you?

00:48:01.157 --> 00:48:01.398
Yes.

00:48:02.210 --> 00:48:27.891
and uh the marine bands i we we've experimented with the type of wood i like the pair of wood for me i like them uh with just intonation because you know i play in a traditional fashion a lot of chords you don't want to have a lot of chord dissonance you want to want to have something rich you know but he still i use the pair of wood like i say he he puts uh He does his thing to them.

00:48:27.911 --> 00:48:28.632
He seals them.

00:48:29.452 --> 00:48:31.094
I'll send them back to him when they wear out.

00:48:31.376 --> 00:48:34.639
So you play the older style marine band thing.

00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:36.922
You don't play the deluxe or the crossovers.

00:48:36.942 --> 00:48:37.963
It's the old style ones.

00:48:38.003 --> 00:48:40.326
And Joe customizes those for you.

00:48:40.827 --> 00:48:44.271
Yeah, he starts out with actually pre-war sometimes, it looks like to me.

00:48:45.072 --> 00:48:47.514
But for me, which is fantastic.

00:48:48.295 --> 00:48:53.141
The new harmonicas, I like the action on the crossover.

00:48:53.538 --> 00:48:56.722
To me, that's the best action out of all the new ones.

00:48:57.824 --> 00:49:01.510
Play the Holness 64 as your chromatic of choice.

00:49:02.271 --> 00:49:03.273
That's mainly.

00:49:03.293 --> 00:49:07.360
I've been trying to go to the smaller ones.

00:49:08.081 --> 00:49:14.793
The one I got that I like the action of better than any of them, but I'm not as crazy about the sound, is the CX-12.

00:49:15.233 --> 00:49:19.902
The problem with that harmonica is you can't tell where the end of the damn harmonica is.

00:49:20.610 --> 00:49:22.952
But, you know, you've just got to work on it, find it.

00:49:23.233 --> 00:49:31.059
I'm noticing that the chords on the CX-12 are not as rich as on the metal harmonica, but the octaves are nice.

00:49:31.940 --> 00:49:35.063
I was just playing one of those, and they sound good.

00:49:35.704 --> 00:49:42.411
But obviously, that's a 12-hole, so a lot of when you're playing the blues chromatic, obviously, you play the 64, the 16-hole.

00:49:42.451 --> 00:49:43.952
You get those big octaves.

00:49:43.992 --> 00:49:48.436
Those octaves are the lower octave as well with that richer sound, but you're playing the 12-hole as well now.

00:49:48.898 --> 00:49:49.277
Yeah.

00:49:49.697 --> 00:49:51.179
That's the beautiful thing about those.

00:49:52.481 --> 00:49:54.846
Luckily, Felisco had made me a couple of old ones.

00:49:55.606 --> 00:49:57.550
So that's what I use.

00:49:57.630 --> 00:49:58.871
I don't use the new ones.

00:49:58.911 --> 00:50:02.358
Do you have a favorite key of diatonic harmonica?

00:50:02.797 --> 00:50:07.085
You know, I like everything from A-flat to C.

00:50:07.666 --> 00:50:08.507
I like those keys.

00:50:08.527 --> 00:50:12.634
I use a D harmonica sometimes.

00:50:13.538 --> 00:50:16.822
I usually use that on, well, on certain things.

00:50:17.684 --> 00:50:23.353
Then it starts getting good on the acoustic end of it, on D and up, you know.

00:50:23.432 --> 00:50:25.576
I don't use a high F anymore.

00:50:25.655 --> 00:50:26.538
I just don't see any.

00:50:26.838 --> 00:50:27.739
I know Sonny Boy used

00:50:29.161 --> 00:50:29.501
them

00:50:30.103 --> 00:50:30.123
a

00:50:30.143 --> 00:50:30.583
lot.

00:50:31.125 --> 00:50:31.965
Help me, please.

00:50:50.914 --> 00:50:53.119
I just don't find the need for it in what I do.

00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.628
When I used to go to the gig with the Thunderbirds, I'd bring one harmonica.

00:50:58.070 --> 00:50:59.112
And hey, that was it.

00:50:59.713 --> 00:51:01.436
And I could play an E, A, and B with that.

00:51:01.476 --> 00:51:02.960
That was fine.

00:51:03.782 --> 00:51:07.230
But when I go out with the blues, man, and still, I do it today.

00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:08.733
I use mainly...

00:51:09.378 --> 00:51:16.228
I use a C every now and then with the Thunderbirds, but most of the time an A, maybe a B-flat.

00:51:16.329 --> 00:51:17.349
I got them all up there.

00:51:17.389 --> 00:51:27.125
Maybe I'll go out in the audience with the Sonny Boy high note thing, so I use a G also.

00:51:27.144 --> 00:51:28.186
It depends on the room.

00:51:28.847 --> 00:51:31.251
Do you play any different tunings, or do you use overblows?

00:51:31.452 --> 00:51:31.592
No,

00:51:32.112 --> 00:51:33.994
I don't use overblows.

00:51:34.456 --> 00:51:38.041
I can do it a little bit, but I just don't see any sense in it for me.

00:51:38.722 --> 00:51:45.653
You know, if you wanted to play every note on a diatonic harmonica, well, then just get a chromatic.

00:51:47.416 --> 00:51:49.119
I don't play every note on them either.

00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:54.208
To be honest with you, and Kim Fields, I don't know if you know who that is.

00:51:54.268 --> 00:51:57.072
He's a great harmonica player, lives up in the Portland area.

00:51:57.092 --> 00:52:00.157
I don't know.

00:52:09.121 --> 00:52:10.623
Portland, Oregon.

00:52:10.844 --> 00:52:12.067
I've known him for many, many years.

00:52:12.748 --> 00:52:14.309
He turned me on to a guy named Don Les.

00:52:15.090 --> 00:52:16.914
Don Les is the guy who invented that.

00:52:17.155 --> 00:52:18.396
He invented the overblow.

00:52:18.697 --> 00:52:19.898
He could really do it.

00:52:20.059 --> 00:52:29.173
In my mind, and I might get some letters about this, but I haven't heard a great practitioner of overblow notes.

00:52:29.601 --> 00:52:33.987
Because what you have to sacrifice to get an overblow is you have to change the harmonica

00:52:34.427 --> 00:52:34.507
and

00:52:34.527 --> 00:52:37.811
seat the reeds deeper into the slot.

00:52:38.012 --> 00:52:40.235
And you sacrifice sound.

00:52:40.976 --> 00:52:42.416
I just don't see it, like I say.

00:52:42.458 --> 00:52:45.541
You know, Mike Turk is an incredible chromatic player.

00:52:45.942 --> 00:52:51.168
Hey, see if he's got online lessons or find somebody who gives online chromatic lessons.

00:52:52.429 --> 00:52:54.112
It's a wonderful instrument, you know.

00:52:54.791 --> 00:52:55.873
But I might do it myself.

00:52:56.514 --> 00:53:08.809
Yeah, like I say, I haven't heard a great practitioner of overblows, not to mention that most people who overblow, they don't play to a chord.

00:53:08.849 --> 00:53:10.652
They play to A440.

00:53:11.213 --> 00:53:14.135
So it takes the chords out of the blues music right there.

00:53:14.916 --> 00:53:16.099
Chords are everything in that.

00:53:16.278 --> 00:53:18.461
So I think for me, no.

00:53:19.010 --> 00:53:20.831
So what about your favorite amp?

00:53:21.253 --> 00:53:27.159
You've taught there that you're touring a lot, so you often just use whatever amp's available to you, a bit like Little Walter.

00:53:27.739 --> 00:53:28.920
Do you have a favorite amp?

00:53:29.481 --> 00:53:31.844
I've got a lot of really great amps.

00:53:32.585 --> 00:53:38.773
My favorite amp is my 59 Bassman that I got in 1972.

00:53:38.932 --> 00:53:41.335
I bought it in a store.

00:53:41.356 --> 00:53:46.782
I was with Luther Tucker at the time, and they must have had 25 of them just lined up.

00:53:47.137 --> 00:53:47.878
Four input.

00:53:48.139 --> 00:53:49.760
There are probably a couple two inputs in there.

00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:51.202
I don't really like the two input as much.

00:53:51.842 --> 00:53:53.824
But I've had this amp for many, many, many years.

00:53:53.905 --> 00:53:57.268
And then I got another one from Big John, so sometimes I'll use two of those.

00:53:58.148 --> 00:53:59.269
And it's a pretty big sound.

00:53:59.710 --> 00:54:05.416
But in the studio, I use my old Gibsons, a lot of old small stuff.

00:54:06.496 --> 00:54:10.260
You can't go in the studio using a super reverb or a twin or something.

00:54:10.340 --> 00:54:11.362
It just doesn't work out.

00:54:11.822 --> 00:54:12.842
I also own one.

00:54:12.882 --> 00:54:15.266
I don't have a letter of authenticity.

00:54:15.681 --> 00:54:18.184
But I own one of Little Walter's amps.

00:54:19.206 --> 00:54:19.545
Oh, really?

00:54:19.847 --> 00:54:24.952
And I own two Dan Electro Commandos.

00:54:25.773 --> 00:54:26.954
One of them was retreated.

00:54:26.994 --> 00:54:28.416
It sounds very good.

00:54:29.398 --> 00:54:31.960
The other one, I don't know how Big John did this.

00:54:32.021 --> 00:54:35.525
You all probably know who Big John Atkinson is out there.

00:54:36.726 --> 00:54:39.489
He's an incredible musician and kind of a throwback.

00:54:39.550 --> 00:54:40.731
That's why we get along so well.

00:54:40.851 --> 00:54:41.911
But he found this.

00:54:41.931 --> 00:54:43.074
He went down to Atlanta.

00:54:43.713 --> 00:54:50.000
I don't know if you ever heard of Grady Fats Jackson, sax player, but he was on the road with Little Walter, right?

00:54:50.619 --> 00:55:04.193
And he died, and Grady Fats Jackson's basement was a commando with the original cloth cover, with the original tweed, everything.

00:55:04.233 --> 00:55:06.956
Now, that's not made for a sax player to play through.

00:55:07.235 --> 00:55:08.516
That's Little Walter's amp.

00:55:09.097 --> 00:55:09.358
Yeah.

00:55:09.378 --> 00:55:10.539
That's Little Walter's amp.

00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:13.202
Yeah, and it sounds really great, too.

00:55:13.601 --> 00:55:17.887
I don't get to use it very much, you know, because I have so many studio amps that I use.

00:55:18.427 --> 00:55:18.646
Yeah.

00:55:19.188 --> 00:55:25.635
So when you play that amp, do you sound, can you get Little Walter's tone, you know, at least closer to Little Walter's tone?

00:55:26.335 --> 00:55:29.199
You can get a little more, yeah.

00:55:29.659 --> 00:55:30.619
Yeah, you can a little bit.

00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:32.583
Tone is a variable thing.

00:55:32.623 --> 00:55:33.744
Tone is a physical thing.

00:55:33.864 --> 00:55:36.646
You know, it's not really, it doesn't really matter what amp you use.

00:55:37.987 --> 00:55:43.134
But yeah, you know, I mean, Little Walter, he got a very rich tone.

00:55:43.650 --> 00:55:45.271
cleaner sound sometimes.

00:55:46.333 --> 00:55:49.597
And you would think that this Dan Electro would break up like crazy.

00:55:49.657 --> 00:55:50.478
It doesn't really.

00:55:50.518 --> 00:55:54.583
It's eight-eighths, and you have to really crank it up.

00:55:55.043 --> 00:55:56.425
They're pretty loud amplifiers.

00:55:57.407 --> 00:56:02.393
For the time, I would imagine they were one of the louder ones on the bandstands for back then.

00:56:03.474 --> 00:56:04.675
Now, I used it on a recording.

00:56:04.735 --> 00:56:11.123
I've got a new recording coming out that I don't think is going to have any of that amp on it.

00:56:11.163 --> 00:56:13.405
But in the future, there'll be some coming out with that on it.

00:56:13.985 --> 00:56:15.088
Yeah, brilliant, yeah.

00:56:15.128 --> 00:56:16.168
What about microphones?

00:56:16.550 --> 00:56:17.911
What's your microphones of choice?

00:56:18.853 --> 00:56:19.954
A T3.

00:56:20.675 --> 00:56:24.320
I use a lot of different mics, too, but usually a live, I use a T3.

00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:31.690
I was using a ceramic element in a JT30 recently.

00:56:31.750 --> 00:56:32.891
That didn't sound too bad.

00:56:32.952 --> 00:56:35.315
That was fairly clean as well, but I liked it.

00:56:36.416 --> 00:56:37.838
But I use all the static mics.

00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:39.221
I don't use any chores.

00:56:39.641 --> 00:56:42.784
I don't use any of these custom...

00:56:43.393 --> 00:56:44.514
I like stock.

00:56:46.237 --> 00:56:47.038
Crystals, then.

00:56:47.518 --> 00:56:49.621
Yeah, I've gotten used to that.

00:56:51.043 --> 00:56:53.947
I've got a magical T3 that just sounds beautiful.

00:56:54.146 --> 00:57:02.217
I'm not even sure if it's the original element in it, but it is a something 11, something 11.

00:57:02.297 --> 00:57:03.918
That's the name of the crystal.

00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:09.186
I get a lot of my mics from Dennis Grumling.

00:57:10.166 --> 00:57:12.630
In fact, over the last few years, I've been getting all my mics from him.

00:57:12.994 --> 00:57:17.822
I bought a crystal from him last year, actually, and it's a great mic.

00:57:18.702 --> 00:57:19.585
I'm really pleased with it.

00:57:19.925 --> 00:57:20.706
It's a great one.

00:57:20.806 --> 00:57:23.150
I don't know where he finds them all, but he does,

00:57:23.391 --> 00:57:26.315
doesn't he?

00:57:27.577 --> 00:57:33.067
Sometimes the crystals are worn out, and he might put new old stock in there.

00:57:33.867 --> 00:57:37.353
He's got some old brush elements that he puts in that work well.

00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:39.972
But I love this T3 that I have.

00:57:40.032 --> 00:57:40.913
I have several of them.

00:57:40.974 --> 00:57:42.916
I have a lot of microphones, a lot.

00:57:44.077 --> 00:57:45.619
Way too many microphones.

00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:49.664
FX pedals, you say you don't really favor them then, do you not?

00:57:49.844 --> 00:57:51.326
Do you use FX pedals, Saul?

00:57:52.106 --> 00:57:55.391
I use, I've got one from Australia.

00:57:55.411 --> 00:58:02.179
It's a Clinch FX, what they call a burnish boost.

00:58:03.501 --> 00:58:04.501
And I like that.

00:58:05.057 --> 00:58:12.507
And then I also use, every now and then, I'll use a Kinder anti-feedback.

00:58:13.307 --> 00:58:15.951
I'll tell you something about the Kinder thing.

00:58:15.990 --> 00:58:17.072
It's just too distorted.

00:58:17.432 --> 00:58:20.516
Even if you turn the thing all the way down, it's too distorted.

00:58:20.777 --> 00:58:22.059
I kind of favor

00:58:22.099 --> 00:58:22.458
the Clinch

00:58:22.579 --> 00:58:22.880
FX

00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:23.300
box.

00:58:24.101 --> 00:58:24.521
Thanks very much.

00:58:24.722 --> 00:58:29.027
Just to finish off then, as you say, you're hoping to be back out on the road.

00:58:29.068 --> 00:58:30.648
You've got some gigs booked for August.

00:58:30.668 --> 00:58:32.751
Hopefully you can get back out doing those.

00:58:32.831 --> 00:58:37.077
So yeah, hopefully you'll be you'll be able to do those again from then.

00:58:37.117 --> 00:58:38.659
Have you got anything else particularly lined up?

00:58:40.782 --> 00:58:46.027
Well, you know, I've got pretty much what I want as long as I'm able to do it.

00:58:47.088 --> 00:58:50.273
You know, I love going out with the blues band as well.

00:58:50.934 --> 00:58:52.195
So we'll see what happens there.

00:58:52.215 --> 00:58:57.181
And I'd love to play in the UK sometime relatively soon.

00:58:57.202 --> 00:58:59.485
Yeah, any plans to come to Europe?

00:58:59.505 --> 00:59:01.447
Have you got anything booked for Europe at the moment?

00:59:02.768 --> 00:59:03.570
At this stage, no.

00:59:04.001 --> 00:59:04.262
No.

00:59:05.083 --> 00:59:05.864
Everything's on hold.

00:59:06.266 --> 00:59:11.094
Yeah, I've seen you play in London, so yeah, hopefully see you across in London again in the not-too-distant future.

00:59:11.494 --> 00:59:12.597
So thanks very much, Kim.

00:59:12.657 --> 00:59:13.980
It's been a real pleasure speaking to you.

00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:15.001
Thanks for taking the time.

00:59:15.822 --> 00:59:16.324
My pleasure.

00:59:16.364 --> 00:59:18.487
That's it for today, folks.

00:59:18.847 --> 00:59:26.581
Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose-built for the harmonica.

00:59:26.922 --> 00:59:28.445
Be sure to check out their website.