May 23, 2025

John Sebastian interview

John Sebastian joins me on episode 135.

John had considerable chart success in the 1960s as part of the folk rock band, The Lovin' Spoonful, who were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the year 2000. John was also inducted into the songwriters Hall Of Fame. Probably better known as a singer songwriter and guitar player, harmonica was John’s first instrument, inspired by his father, also called John Sebastian, who was a renowned classical harmonica player. And we discuss some of his father’s music and how this inspired his son to take up the harmonica.

John started out playing harmonica in a jug band before his success with The Lovin' Spoonful, before he then enjoyed a solo career and some notable recording sessions, not least as the harmonica player on The Doors song, Roadhouse Blues.

Links:

John's website: https://www.johnbsebastian.com/

John’s children’s book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jbs-Harmonica-John-Sebastian/dp/0152400915

Review of Jug Band DVD by Todd Kwait: Chasin' Gus' Ghost: https://driftwoodmagazine.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/dvd-review-chasin’-gus’-ghost/

Videos:

John Sebastian senior live performance of Villas Lobos Harmonica Concerto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2EO0SUraGQ

Playing ‘Thedy’ on chromatic with the New Rhythm Blues Quartet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f9IGhcGiQQ

Harmonica duet with Annie Raines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmPOnRUDZAE

John’s Homespun Blues Harmonica course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIVWaVSOoLE

John’s appearance at Woodstock in 1969: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBXL7FaPod4

Liam Ward interview with John and a lesson from Liam on how to play Roadhouse Blues: https://www.learntheharmonica.com/post/roadhouse-blues-harmonica-john-sebastian

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com

Support the show

01:45 - John was a bona fide pop star with his chart success with the Loving Spoonful in the 1960s

02:20 - Lives in Woodstock and originally from New York, Greenwich village

02:40 - Was born in 1944

02:58 - Very well known for being a singer songwriter, guitarist, autoharp player, but harmonica was what he started out on

03:38 - Lived right next to Washington Square, which gave John lots of access to the music scene in Greenwich Village

04:11 - John’s father was the famous classical and popular music harmonica player, also called John Sebastian

04:49 - John Sebastian senior was fearless and played in many places, including Africa

05:23 - John Sebastian senior was playing since before John junior was born and played in several harmonica orchestras

06:32 - John Sebastian senior spent some years in Italy, where he met the illustrator Garth Williams

07:45 - John Sebastian senior played popular music as well as classical and played at Cafe Society in New York, one of the first clubs offering both black and white artists on the bill

08:31 - Villa Lobos wrote pieces for the chromatic harmonica for John Sebastian senior

09:14 - John Sebastian senior was keen to avoid being a pop harmonica player, due to prevalence of popular harmonica bands at the time, which incorporated humour into their performance

10:36 - John Sebastian senior played into his later years, just having an issue with his mouth following a car accident

11:53 - John Sebastian senior moved to southern France to remarry in later life

12:49 - How his father influenced John to take up the harmonica, including bringing back lots of Hohner Marine Bands and Little Ladies after visiting Trossingen

14:01 - John Sebastian senior was a friend of Sonny Terry and brought John junior a Sonny Terry record, which got him interested in playing blues

14:32 - John junior was never planned to follow his father’s footsteps and pursue a career playing classical chromatic

14:50 - Met Sonny Terry on several occasions and including at the Gas Light cafe in New York

15:34 - John’s parents created a song for him called JB’s Happy Harmonica, with his mother writing the words and his father narrating them and playing some harmonica

16:52 - His father never pressured him to play harmonica, but John junior heard some of his father’s tuition material

19:09 - Plays a little chromatic harmonica, including the song Thedy with the New Rhythm Blues Quartet

20:06 - Authored a children’s book called JB’s Happy Harmonica, based on the story his parents had created in his youth

22:32 - Played harmonica in his first band, the Even Dozen Jug Band, which included notable musicians David Grisman and Stefan Grossman

23:45 - Only played harmonica in the Even Dozen Jug Band

24:10 - Released a jug band album in the 1990s, with his J-Band

24:40 - Interest in jug band music came from seeing the musicians from the original jug bands in his youth, including the harmonica players in those bands

25:25 - Annie Raines recorded on John’s J-Band album, and John has performed with Annie on other occasions

27:17 - Joined The Loving Spoonful who were inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, and John into the Songwriters Hall of Fame

27:43 - Singer, songwriter, guitarist and harmonica player with The Loving Spoonful

27:54 - John credits Zalman Yanovsky for a lot of success of The Loving Spoonful

28:37 - John made an album with Arlen Roth during the Covid pandemic

29:04 - Played quite a lot of harmonica with The Loving Spoonful

29:27 - Left The Loving Spoonful in 1968 to start his solo career and worked with producer, Paul Rothchild

30:11 - Released first solo album in 1970, John B. Sebastian

30:48 - Has focused on the harmonica most in the last ten years as he is requested to play it more with people recently

31:05 - More on the album made with Arlen Roth

33:11 - Had a big hit when his song ‘Welcome Back’ was used as the theme tune to the US sitcom Welcome Back, Kotter

34:05 - John played the harmonica on The Doors Roadhouse Blues song

34:38 - Paul Rothchild wanted John to record with The Doors to help keep Jim Morrison in check in the studio

36:05 - John watched The Doors keyboard player Ray Manzarek for his cues while recording Roadhouse Blues

36:51 - The credit for the harmonica playing is G. Puglese, John’s father’s family name. John used a pseudonym at the request of Paul Rothchild

38:15 - John only received a one-off session fee for recording Roadhouse Blues, and not royalties for life

38:32 - Played with The Doors at a live concert in New York

39:38 - Made other session recordings with musicians, such as with folk musician Gordon Lightfoot

40:03 - Recorded guitar on a Timothy Leary album, with Jimi Hendrix playing bass

40:50 - Recorded with Crosby, Stills and Nash on their Deja Vu album

42:01 - After leaving The Loving Spoonful, wrote a play called Jimmy Shine, starring Dustin Hoffman, which appeared on Broadway

43:52 - No harmonica in Jimmy Shine play, mainly because John wasn’t in the band

44:05 - Created a Homespun tutorial recording: John Sebastian Teaches Blues Harmonica

45:38 - John is strongly associated with the Woodstock festival, especially after a famous appearance there

46:36 - Ten minute question

48:32 - Originally played Hohner Marine Bands but then moved across to Seydel harmonicas

49:19 - Doesn’t play any overblows and thinks there is somewhat of a sacrifice in tone when they’re used

49:47 - Embouchre: picked up using some tongue blocking from his father, but mainly uses puckering

51:16 - Amps: mainly used a PA as didn’t want to emulate Paul Butterfield’s sound, who John was friends with

52:32 - Did get some distortion via using the mics at the time

53:03 - Effects: didn’t use any

53:30 - Has had to take a break from playing harmonica due to dental work but will be getting back to it

54:35 - John Sebastian senior was still able to play harmonica after the car accident which injured his mouth

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.383
John Sebastian joins me on episode 135.

00:00:04.365 --> 00:00:14.480
John had considerable church success in the 1960s as part of the folk rock band The Loving Springfull, who were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the year 2000.

00:00:14.961 --> 00:00:18.007
John was also inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

00:00:19.068 --> 00:00:28.021
Probably better known as a singer-songwriter and guitar player, harmonica was John's first instrument, inspired by his father, also called John Sebastian.

00:00:28.513 --> 00:00:36.750
who was a renowned classical harmonica player, and we discussed some of his father's music and how this helped to inspire his son to take up the harmonica.

00:00:37.591 --> 00:00:51.158
John started out playing harmonica in a jug band before his success with A Loving Spoonful, before he then enjoyed a solo career and some notable recording sessions, not least as a harmonica player on the Doors song, Roadhouse Blues.

00:00:51.521 --> 00:00:54.067
This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas.

00:00:54.487 --> 00:01:03.826
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

00:01:35.650 --> 00:01:37.751
Hello, John Sebastian, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:38.612 --> 00:01:45.159
Well, thank you, and wonderful to be talking with you about the harmonica.

00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:46.120
Thanks, John.

00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:47.602
So it's great to have you on board.

00:01:47.682 --> 00:01:52.626
So you were a proper bona fide pop star, so it's great to have you on.

00:01:52.667 --> 00:01:55.689
I don't think we've had too many of those on as harmonica players.

00:01:55.709 --> 00:01:59.194
So you were in the Loving Spoonful in the 60s, yeah?

00:01:59.373 --> 00:02:01.896
And you had some notable success, yeah?

00:02:01.915 --> 00:02:02.977
Some real chart hits, yeah?

00:02:03.597 --> 00:02:03.677
Yeah.

00:02:03.873 --> 00:02:15.288
Yes, that was really a wonderful surprise to begin with, but then it became a job for three years or so.

00:02:15.628 --> 00:02:20.455
Yeah, so we'll get on to that shortly, but we'll talk a little bit about your background.

00:02:20.475 --> 00:02:21.957
So you live in Woodstock.

00:02:22.117 --> 00:02:24.981
You were born there as well, were you, or were you born in New York?

00:02:25.002 --> 00:02:31.229
It was New York City that I was born in, Greenwich Village, yeah.

00:02:31.457 --> 00:02:42.611
Yeah, absolutely.

00:02:44.737 --> 00:02:47.140
Yeah, so you're a grand old age now.

00:02:47.181 --> 00:02:49.203
You're still doing well, John.

00:02:50.444 --> 00:02:50.944
Medium well.

00:02:51.466 --> 00:02:52.086
Medium well.

00:02:52.627 --> 00:02:53.709
That's good, that's good.

00:02:53.748 --> 00:03:08.126
And so, as we mentioned, you were a bona fide pop star, but you're very well known for being a singer, a songwriter, guitar player, and also harmonica is an important part of your instrumentation, yeah?

00:03:08.897 --> 00:03:18.751
Well, Auto Harp, don't forget, really was the key to the Love and Spoonful's first couple of successful records.

00:03:19.772 --> 00:03:35.152
But the harmonica had been my bread and butter for several years because growing up in Greenwich Village and, you know, coming home, I was actually going to prep school right up until I was 18.

00:03:36.455 --> 00:03:42.837
But there'd be summers, you know, and Washington Square was in front of my door.

00:03:43.760 --> 00:03:58.788
So that meant that on Sundays I had access to just about every good musical, You know, not just musicians, but people interested in it.

00:03:59.788 --> 00:04:09.960
I had this wonderful access, and it really was a serious starting point.

00:04:11.062 --> 00:04:13.664
Yeah, and a big part of that access was your father.

00:04:13.685 --> 00:04:14.906
So let's talk about your father.

00:04:14.925 --> 00:04:16.728
So John Sebastian Sr.

00:04:16.747 --> 00:04:17.988
did you refer him to?

00:04:18.230 --> 00:04:21.853
So he was a very successful classical chromatic player, yeah?

00:04:22.093 --> 00:04:22.173
Yeah.

00:04:23.137 --> 00:04:30.187
Absolutely, no, there is no greater harmonicist in the world.

00:04:44.086 --> 00:05:19.798
Not only in how well he could play, but the fearlessness with which he went place you know the State Department I didn't realize that during my prep school years he did 20 dates in Africa and I mean some of these shows were like on dirt you know padded down by feet I mean miss this was not beautiful little concert halls And to me, that was some of the most interesting.

00:05:19.858 --> 00:05:22.264
I had to find out later, unfortunately.

00:05:23.567 --> 00:05:25.350
So let's talk some more about his career then.

00:05:25.370 --> 00:05:27.415
So when was he active from?

00:05:27.456 --> 00:05:29.600
You know, what sort of years he was playing?

00:05:31.362 --> 00:05:39.331
So, I mean, he was certainly already visible when I was born in 44.

00:05:39.692 --> 00:05:54.449
He had had this entire career as, let's see, Albert Hoxie is a famous name in Philadelphia for harmonicists.

00:05:55.970 --> 00:06:00.817
I believe started several different harmonica orchestras.

00:06:00.857 --> 00:06:06.685
Then he was part of the Great American March guy.

00:06:06.704 --> 00:06:15.377
So dad was already a soloist in several harmonica orchestras.

00:06:15.937 --> 00:06:28.033
One run by Albert Hoxie, a very famous guy who was promoting the harmonica and the harmonica band idea.

00:06:28.072 --> 00:06:30.437
That was very big.

00:06:31.779 --> 00:06:38.973
Then Dad had a few years where he was in Italy.

00:06:39.052 --> 00:06:47.514
In fact, that was one of the places that he began a friendship with Garth Williams, illustrator.

00:06:47.555 --> 00:06:49.838
He was like an uncle to me.

00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:53.845
So they spent a couple of years in Italy.

00:06:53.925 --> 00:06:57.129
Dad was going to the Università di Roma.

00:06:58.052 --> 00:07:03.139
And then I guess on some trip back, I just learned some of these details.

00:07:04.380 --> 00:07:15.317
On one ocean crossing, Dad met a pair of songwriters who actually helped him to make the decision.

00:07:15.396 --> 00:07:24.809
He was already accredited by the State Department and was gonna become whatever that led to.

00:07:24.829 --> 00:07:38.966
And these songwriters suggested to him that if he was truly a musician, that he'd have no other choice, that he'd be unhappy for the rest of his life if he didn't do it.

00:07:39.937 --> 00:07:45.365
And I think that was convincing to Dad.

00:07:45.846 --> 00:07:49.730
Was he just a classical player or did he play other genres?

00:07:50.713 --> 00:07:57.461
For several years was, I guess you'd call it, doing club work.

00:07:58.043 --> 00:08:00.446
Popular entertainment type music, yeah.

00:08:01.954 --> 00:08:15.653
If you're interested, look up Cafe Society, the first New York venue that had multi-culti people on both sides of the spotlights.

00:08:16.656 --> 00:08:22.184
Dad was playing with Josh White and I was playing with Josh White Jr.

00:08:22.605 --> 00:08:23.545
in the green room.

00:08:24.427 --> 00:08:26.831
I guess we were like six or something.

00:08:27.552 --> 00:08:41.025
So he had, at that point, So I think there were a few things that he said, you know, I just want to get past playing ritual fire dance in Malagaña.

00:08:41.886 --> 00:08:42.587
And he did.

00:08:42.607 --> 00:08:50.619
And he began to get people like Villa Lobos to write for the harmonica.

00:09:07.361 --> 00:09:12.275
So he went from playing the kind of popular music to playing classical more, did he?

00:09:13.057 --> 00:09:39.135
Yes, I mean he really managed to skirt being the pop harmonica player I think that part of it was that that was a real curse at that time in America, because we had bands like the Harmonicats and Borominovich and the Harmonica Rascals.

00:09:39.898 --> 00:09:44.125
And those people were all vaudevillians.

00:09:44.865 --> 00:09:48.029
So it was performance and being funny.

00:09:48.750 --> 00:10:00.384
So the harmonica became associated heavily with Johnny Puleo, a wonderful player, but he had to bite ankles on stage

00:10:00.484 --> 00:10:00.663
to get

00:10:00.884 --> 00:10:01.664
the attention.

00:10:02.405 --> 00:10:04.688
There's a recording of Autumn Leaves.

00:10:05.490 --> 00:10:14.158
I don't know how many real pop items Yeah, fantastic.

00:10:14.198 --> 00:10:18.985
He had a long career, did he?

00:10:19.065 --> 00:10:29.097
Was he playing right up until, you

00:10:30.539 --> 00:10:35.525
know, in his later years,

00:10:35.605 --> 00:10:35.645
or...?

00:10:36.162 --> 00:10:39.524
Well, yes, he played right into his later years.

00:10:39.565 --> 00:10:48.413
The only real problem in his middle life was he was in a car accident.

00:10:48.452 --> 00:10:56.399
He was actually sleeping in the backseat, I think, when another guy driving also fell asleep.

00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:06.128
And he and Dorothy Jarnack, oh my God, I don't know why I was able to think of this name.

00:11:06.128 --> 00:11:06.690
He was

00:11:14.860 --> 00:11:16.384
injured in this car accident, was he?

00:11:17.857 --> 00:11:20.279
Yes, it was very unfortunate.

00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:29.268
The pianist hurt his hands, the dancer hurt her legs, and dad smashed forward and hit his mouth.

00:11:29.628 --> 00:11:36.514
So in later years, would try to repair it with dentists and so on.

00:11:37.254 --> 00:11:40.658
There just wasn't, it wasn't a good combination.

00:11:40.677 --> 00:11:52.346
He also has a kind of natural fear of doctors and dentists from some childhood stuff, which which I don't even know about, and that did slow him down.

00:11:52.385 --> 00:11:58.222
There was a point when he moved southern France.

00:11:59.024 --> 00:12:00.666
He moved to the Dordogne.

00:12:01.046 --> 00:12:14.301
A really great translator lady that he fell in love with in later life began a life in a beautiful little stone French farmhouse.

00:12:14.341 --> 00:12:36.019
He would write me and say how glad he was that he suddenly had a daughter because apparently this woman's daughter was very angry at her existing father and was really glad to see dad come along because my father was a guy of great character.

00:12:47.009 --> 00:12:53.585
Well, the interesting part then about how he influenced you about taking up the harmonica.

00:12:53.644 --> 00:12:58.095
So I think he exposed you to other musicians because he was around musicians.

00:12:58.255 --> 00:13:02.384
And he introduced you what to play in the harmonica first, did he?

00:13:03.265 --> 00:13:26.480
Well, what was happening was that he would go to Tussingen to get refinements on his harmonicas, and as he left, they would always pile him on with, like, marine bands, like lots of them, and the little small four-hole guys, you know?

00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:27.562
Yeah, the little lady.

00:13:27.822 --> 00:13:27.902
Yeah.

00:13:28.033 --> 00:13:31.197
That's right, the little lady, that's exactly it.

00:13:31.557 --> 00:13:34.160
So he didn't play diatonic at all, did he not?

00:13:34.881 --> 00:13:36.283
Well, he could kill it.

00:13:36.903 --> 00:13:39.668
He could absolutely put you away with it.

00:13:40.509 --> 00:13:40.668
Right.

00:13:40.849 --> 00:13:42.551
But no, he didn't.

00:13:42.831 --> 00:13:54.625
It was just a thing he could do, but he just, at a certain point when he had embraced the 64 chromatic, I think that he was no longer...

00:13:55.265 --> 00:14:19.486
interested and also I think that he was enjoying remember Sonny Terry was a pal of his they did several things together you know where one of those kind of shows where it's well here's the classical guy here's the blues guy and then here's the harmonica rascals or something like that

00:14:20.508 --> 00:14:28.034
he introduced you to the music of Sonny Terry didn't he I think he brought you a record of Sonny Terry's and that's when you first heard and fell in love with blues harmonica.

00:14:28.956 --> 00:14:29.576
That's right.

00:14:29.836 --> 00:14:30.798
Yes, that's right.

00:14:30.857 --> 00:14:32.440
That's exactly what happened.

00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:40.448
So you never wanted to play classical harmonica yourself, or you didn't play the chromatic either, did you not?

00:14:41.710 --> 00:14:42.691
I was a kid.

00:14:43.471 --> 00:14:45.614
I was not that interested.

00:14:46.375 --> 00:14:50.559
Yeah, so then you turned to play blues harmonica, thanks to your father's influence.

00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.461
And did you get to meet Sonny Terry yourself?

00:14:53.474 --> 00:14:55.917
Oh, yeah, several times.

00:14:56.717 --> 00:15:17.145
And by the second time, one of the great compliments that I got or just made me feel so good were when the second time that I knew Sonny was playing with Brownie in the Gaslight Cafe.

00:15:17.166 --> 00:15:20.190
And so I went down there.

00:15:20.210 --> 00:15:22.373
I waited my turn.

00:15:23.298 --> 00:15:27.192
go in the back room and say, is Sonny Terry back here?

00:15:27.231 --> 00:15:30.865
And he goes, is that Johnny Sebastian's little kid?

00:15:30.884 --> 00:15:34.115
It was the best.

00:15:34.721 --> 00:15:35.682
Great stuff, yeah.

00:15:36.024 --> 00:15:41.250
And also your father, he wrote a song for you called JB's Happy Harmonica.

00:15:41.831 --> 00:15:49.659
And so it's like a story about how you play, you know, you love the harmonica and, you know, it's like your happy harmonica is like a little character in there, isn't it?

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.346
So this is a great story, which, you know, your father wrote for you and recorded.

00:15:54.365 --> 00:15:55.647
He didn't want candy just then.

00:15:56.227 --> 00:15:58.671
He saw something bright and twinkling in the store window.

00:15:59.091 --> 00:16:00.413
What's that shiny thing, Mr.

00:16:00.472 --> 00:16:01.033
Humperdinkel?

00:16:01.442 --> 00:16:03.104
Boy, that's a harmonica.

00:16:03.703 --> 00:16:07.067
On it you could play maybe Turkey in the Straw or Little Brown Joke.

00:16:08.068 --> 00:16:11.493
Oh, boy, the harmonica was clean and sparkly and...

00:16:12.734 --> 00:16:14.956
Why, it said hello and smiled at him.

00:16:16.118 --> 00:16:16.698
Yes, it did.

00:16:17.158 --> 00:16:18.421
Oh, what a happy harmonica.

00:16:18.900 --> 00:16:20.001
Listen, J.B.

00:16:20.042 --> 00:16:26.428
could hear the gay little tune it played for him, a dancing tune that made him happy and made his toes tingle.

00:16:36.193 --> 00:16:39.916
My mother wrote it, my dad narrated it.

00:16:41.186 --> 00:16:52.081
You know, I had begun to play the instruments, the little instruments that, you know, were coming from Hohner and were just lying around anyway.

00:16:52.120 --> 00:17:01.974
So, and it was to Dad's credit, he never, ever pressured me or said, oh, you should do this for a living.

00:17:02.615 --> 00:17:11.165
Because he'd seen all of his buddies that were in law school who then were pressuring their children to be lawyers and lawyers.

00:17:11.266 --> 00:17:17.221
He just wanted everybody to have their own time to fly.

00:17:17.383 --> 00:17:22.718
Yeah, but he didn't teach you directly the harmonica, I understand.

00:17:22.758 --> 00:17:25.265
Right, but here's the thing.

00:17:25.285 --> 00:17:26.868
One of the things...

00:17:27.362 --> 00:17:37.954
that was in our house, among other places, was a John Sebastian harmonica instruction set of 78.

00:17:38.855 --> 00:17:49.268
You know, they'd get played along with everything else, and I was real interested, as my dad and so on.

00:17:51.362 --> 00:18:00.696
I heard those instructional records that were very good for me to get a sense of.

00:18:01.077 --> 00:18:01.858
Yeah, it's great.

00:18:01.898 --> 00:18:05.424
So you got instruction from your father through his instructional records.

00:18:05.525 --> 00:18:06.205
Great.

00:18:07.047 --> 00:18:09.330
You do play some chromatic harmonica, don't you?

00:18:09.590 --> 00:18:13.617
I have a recording of you playing the song Lonely, and that is played on chromatic, isn't it?

00:18:14.817 --> 00:18:26.519
Lonely, actually, on the recording with the orchestra is absolutely a marine band toner.

00:18:27.201 --> 00:18:28.603
Oh, it's a diatonic.

00:18:28.864 --> 00:18:29.625
Oh, is it?

00:18:29.644 --> 00:18:30.046
Okay.

00:18:50.882 --> 00:19:03.684
And it reveals itself in that it has a very flat major third which gets in the way in the melody of Lonely.

00:19:04.907 --> 00:19:08.273
It's like I regret one note.

00:19:09.856 --> 00:19:12.701
So you don't play any chromatic harmonica then, do you not?

00:19:13.057 --> 00:19:25.262
Well, you know, like if Terry Adams needs me to do it or something, that's a really great pianist, bandleader for NRBQ, New Rhythm and Blues Quartet.

00:19:25.743 --> 00:19:52.349
And over the years, I've been able to talk my way into their sessions to play like six string banjo or up my little harmonica and that there is one thing i believe it's called cd that was a tune that i learned on the chromatic because it's just what's needed

00:20:06.753 --> 00:20:10.218
I'm just going back briefly to the JB's Happy Harmonica.

00:20:10.318 --> 00:20:18.048
So I believe some years later, you mentioned Gareth Williams, who was a friend of your father's and is like an uncle to you.

00:20:18.669 --> 00:20:22.513
You offered a children's book called JB's Harmonica, yeah?

00:20:22.775 --> 00:20:27.500
So you sort of recreated it later on and then Gareth Williams illustrated it.

00:20:27.560 --> 00:20:28.301
Is that right?

00:20:28.461 --> 00:20:28.541
Yeah.

00:20:29.698 --> 00:20:56.073
yes that's right that's right it was an incredible privilege and i was catching him oh so late in his life and he made such an effort to uh to stay on uh target with me uh it was an incredible experience and uh really, really value it.

00:20:56.673 --> 00:21:02.622
So was it the same story that your mother wrote and you sort of turned it into a book, or did you do something different with it?

00:21:03.423 --> 00:21:20.346
Well, you see, I started as telling the story, but I quickly was reminded that in Garth's later life, still one of the things that he could draw better than anybody was furry bears.

00:21:20.987 --> 00:21:22.609
So I said, okay, wait.

00:21:23.233 --> 00:21:27.005
JB is James Bear.

00:21:27.666 --> 00:21:28.750
Let's go with that.

00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:33.724
So in the illustrations, that's what Garth did.

00:21:34.402 --> 00:21:41.508
We have a little more Weasley appearance, but that was like a part of the game.

00:21:41.647 --> 00:21:46.291
You just had to go with it because you had Garth as your illustrator.

00:21:46.573 --> 00:21:50.976
When he heard about the project, he said, oh, well, nobody else can do this but me.

00:21:51.297 --> 00:21:52.557
I was so delighted.

00:21:53.578 --> 00:22:13.136
Garth has drawn, among other things, engagement and marriage cards for my mother and father and for years was imitating a particular image that I think that he photographed of them.

00:22:13.176 --> 00:22:14.701
Very interesting.

00:22:15.201 --> 00:22:21.349
Yeah, great that you were able to bring your parents' story to life with the JB harmonica, so fantastic.

00:22:21.549 --> 00:22:26.777
So let's go now back to your music career, which, as we touched on, was very successful.

00:22:26.836 --> 00:22:31.643
So you played in a few bands before you got into the Loving Spoonful.

00:22:31.702 --> 00:22:37.089
So I think I've got in here that in 1963 you played with an even dozen jug bands.

00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:39.553
So I think you were playing jug band music initially, were you?

00:22:39.614 --> 00:22:41.015
Is that what you were first playing?

00:22:41.075 --> 00:22:42.877
And then you were playing some harmonica with that.

00:22:43.362 --> 00:22:44.424
Yes, indeed.

00:22:56.897 --> 00:23:03.306
there were wonderful instrumentalists in that band i mean david grinsman for god's sake

00:23:03.365 --> 00:23:04.847
yeah fantastic mandolin player

00:23:05.127 --> 00:23:22.483
yes indeed and of course uh maria moldor who was at that time maria damato would really get her own career and this goes on i mean everybody in that band was a really serious instrumentalist.

00:23:22.523 --> 00:23:26.907
Stefan Grossman as well, of course, who's a very famous guitar tuition.

00:23:27.008 --> 00:23:27.929
He's done lots of that, hasn't he?

00:23:27.949 --> 00:23:28.108
Yeah.

00:23:28.490 --> 00:23:30.411
He keeps going with that band.

00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:31.211
Yeah.

00:23:31.412 --> 00:23:32.752
Just about everybody.

00:23:32.853 --> 00:23:40.779
Josh Rivkin, who later becomes the origin of the entertainer.

00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.823
Yeah,

00:23:43.923 --> 00:23:45.104
lots of famous names, yeah.

00:23:45.964 --> 00:23:49.448
And so were you playing harmonica in this band?

00:23:49.468 --> 00:23:50.829
I mean, Were you playing anything else?

00:23:50.849 --> 00:23:53.375
You were playing some harmonica, but were you playing anything else?

00:23:54.076 --> 00:24:04.556
So I really wasn't in that because that band, we would get together, we'd have rehearsals and everything because it was big.

00:24:04.655 --> 00:24:08.021
So, I mean, it really was 13 people.

00:24:08.584 --> 00:24:09.885
Wow.

00:24:10.241 --> 00:24:39.605
so you so jug band music was how you first started playing it and later in the 90s you released a well you had a jug band called j-band didn't you which you created you know you made an album with yeah so yeah so you went back to your jug band roots there

00:24:40.097 --> 00:24:41.508
Indeed, indeed.

00:24:41.528 --> 00:24:55.567
And really, you know, all of this was in part just trying to understand some of these great blues men that I was meeting and hearing and seeing.

00:24:56.067 --> 00:25:00.832
There were guys that were, you know, they were there.

00:25:01.573 --> 00:25:05.336
Gus Cannon was sweeping the streets of Memphis.

00:25:05.876 --> 00:25:09.540
Didn't know it back then, but that was what was going on.

00:25:17.826 --> 00:25:25.799
I

00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:37.221
also should have mentioned in your J-Band album, this Jug Band album from the 90s, you had Annie Rains playing with you, and you've done some playing with Annie Rains, haven't you, including some concerts later on?

00:25:37.260 --> 00:25:37.981
Yeah.

00:25:51.682 --> 00:25:52.962
Absolutely.

00:25:53.443 --> 00:26:03.452
And Paul Rochelle as well, who is a uniquely qualified guy to be playing this style.

00:26:03.874 --> 00:26:06.776
He's just one of the most amazing instrumentalists.

00:26:07.777 --> 00:26:13.502
I can't speak highly enough about Annie Raines.

00:26:16.346 --> 00:26:17.727
That's your sign,

00:26:17.767 --> 00:26:19.969
honey, there's bullfrogs on your mind.

00:26:22.337 --> 00:26:37.897
because she has that silvery jug band tone of some of the great Noah Lewis and some of the great harmonica players of that era, who were usually blues players.

00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:58.105
A whole jug band thing happened as a kind of way for who usually just played on street corners to get together and create something that might be of interest, you know, on the kerosene farm or the tobacco farm.

00:26:58.205 --> 00:27:06.653
And that was where they were finding their audiences, lunch in some of those big factory-like environments.

00:27:06.673 --> 00:27:07.233
Yeah.

00:27:07.253 --> 00:27:09.215
Yeah, so I have had Annie on the podcast before.

00:27:09.276 --> 00:27:10.576
Yeah, so it was great to speak to her.

00:27:10.636 --> 00:27:12.057
So yeah, great player, as you say.

00:27:12.178 --> 00:27:29.856
So then, you know, you know I think you were in another couple of bands or did some other recordings and then you got into the Loving Springfold and as we mentioned this became very successful and in fact the band was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the year 2000 and you were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as well

00:27:37.585 --> 00:27:40.587
so

00:27:41.048 --> 00:27:54.010
great success there yeah so you play guitar and were the singer and the songwriter for the band and and so you know a lot of their hits were uh thanks to your songwriting skills right so you know a lot of success as we mentioned so

00:27:54.030 --> 00:28:17.804
it's an easy mistake to run over the importance of solomon yanovsky just because he didn't write any of the material i would posit that his contribution to that band was immeasurable because he was the stage act, and that's what we were at that time.

00:28:18.265 --> 00:28:35.819
We weren't a recording act for the first year that we existed, and his playing was a departure from a lot of styles, and he really is almost uncredited.

00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:58.653
I think I recently did a project with Arlen Roth, and Arlen was one of the first people I met that understood that Zalman had been this odd melding of country guitar styles with bluesy guitar styles.

00:28:59.394 --> 00:29:03.608
So as I say, Living Springfall, you know, did very well from the sort of 1965 to 1968, 69.

00:29:04.451 --> 00:29:07.762
You did play, you know, quite a lot of harmonica with this band, didn't you?

00:29:07.942 --> 00:29:12.157
You were certainly using it on quite a few of their songs, yeah?

00:29:27.137 --> 00:29:35.753
So you had a great time with these, and then you left in 1968, the Loving Spoonful Band, and then you started on your solo career, yeah?

00:29:36.575 --> 00:29:37.196
That's right.

00:29:37.517 --> 00:29:48.457
And that became an opportunity to work with Paul Rothschild, who I had done the Even Doesn't Judd Band album with.

00:29:49.346 --> 00:29:51.750
That's where our friendship began.

00:29:51.769 --> 00:30:09.117
And so it was a really interesting thing because Eric Jacobson and I really had a great relationship as not quite co-producing, but we were both having an effect on this project.

00:30:09.442 --> 00:30:11.285
love and spoonful idea.

00:30:11.766 --> 00:30:17.315
Yes, and so you had your first solo album in 1970, which was John B.

00:30:17.355 --> 00:30:23.826
Sebastian, your middle name, so this is Benson, and that did well in the Billboard charts as well, didn't it?

00:30:23.846 --> 00:30:32.339
And you got a song on there called Red Eye Express, which had some harmonica on, so you were still playing that harmonica there on that solo album you did.

00:30:35.345 --> 00:30:35.645
I'm flying away

00:30:45.794 --> 00:30:56.739
Yes, you know, it's funny, but I have not really focused on the instrument nearly as much as I got focused on it in the last 10 years.

00:30:57.038 --> 00:31:03.153
You know, it's really been the instrument that people...

00:31:03.874 --> 00:31:23.237
asked me for, and one of the reasons it was so great to make this album with Arlen Roth was that I could play the guitar and just what I do, which is sort of foundational guitar.

00:31:23.970 --> 00:31:28.376
So this album you made with Olin Roth that you're mentioning, this was made during the pandemic here.

00:31:28.416 --> 00:31:32.864
And then so you did some recording with him and then you created an album.

00:31:33.125 --> 00:31:36.430
And there's some harmonica on there on a song called Loving You.

00:31:46.967 --> 00:31:50.773
So yeah, this is an album you did recently, you know, just a few years ago now.

00:31:51.809 --> 00:31:54.214
Yes, indeed, just a few years now.

00:31:54.935 --> 00:32:14.032
Yes, and unfortunately, let your audience know, if anybody wants to save that album, it needs to be done because BMG had a sub-label that we were on.

00:32:15.009 --> 00:32:20.077
and it died two weeks after we finished the project.

00:32:20.097 --> 00:32:20.798
Oh dear.

00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:26.686
We've been doing all this, you know, trying to talk to guitar magazines and things.

00:32:27.268 --> 00:32:33.738
So anyway, that album is sort of a floating thing right now.

00:32:34.179 --> 00:32:34.459
Yeah.

00:32:34.479 --> 00:32:36.561
I've kind of got overcopied.

00:32:36.742 --> 00:32:38.164
But you're proud of it, yeah?

00:32:38.224 --> 00:32:39.205
So good stuff, yeah?

00:32:44.334 --> 00:32:44.413
Yeah.

00:32:44.673 --> 00:32:47.916
Hey,

00:32:47.936 --> 00:32:55.184
everybody, you're listening to Neil Warren's Harmonica Happy Hour podcast, proudly sponsored by Tom Halcheck and Blue Moon Harmonicas.

00:32:55.724 --> 00:32:59.869
This is Jason Ritchie here telling you I love Blue Moon Harmonicas.

00:32:59.950 --> 00:33:07.417
I love the combs, the covers, the custom harps, the refurbished pre-war marine bands, and nobody's easier to work with than Tom Halcheck.

00:33:07.637 --> 00:33:11.721
Check them out, www.bluemoonharmonicas.com.

00:33:11.842 --> 00:33:27.201
So another big hit you had in the 70s is, I'm not so sure it's so familiar here in Europe, but in the US, there was a TV sitcom called Welcome Back, and you had a big hit called Welcome Back, Cotter, which became a number one hit song for you.

00:33:27.762 --> 00:33:28.904
The other way around.

00:33:29.365 --> 00:33:37.375
It was a television show called Welcome Back, Cotter, which they changed the name from Cotter to Welcome Back, Cotter.

00:33:37.916 --> 00:33:43.201
Actually, when they heard my song, They changed the title.

00:33:43.623 --> 00:33:45.554
Yeah, and that song had harmonica on too, yeah?

00:33:46.057 --> 00:33:46.902
It did, yep.

00:33:47.263 --> 00:33:48.792
It had a harmonica break.

00:34:00.546 --> 00:34:38.201
great stuff so yeah so that gave me a good hit in the 70s so the number one hit so uh so getting on now to you know something which um possibly one of the best known harmonica songs ever recorded it was uh roadhouse blues with the doors which you played the harmonica on so uh fantastic so everybody knows that song and especially us harmonica players so tell us about that song.

00:34:39.023 --> 00:34:59.025
Well that was a terrific opportunity to get back with Paul Rothschild who actually at a certain point and said, listen, I really would like you to come in and play with the Doors on this particular song.

00:34:59.326 --> 00:35:01.889
I said, terrific, I'd be glad to do that.

00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:25.536
And his theory, and he told me about this, was he said, and this is kind of hard to believe for a lot of younger audiences of the Doors and so on, and there was a point where people Paul was kind of anxious to get Jim Morrison on the straight and narrow to get these recordings done.

00:35:25.556 --> 00:35:35.686
And he was feeling, I think, like Jim was sort of becoming a baby in the studio with the drink and so on.

00:35:35.706 --> 00:35:40.969
And he thought that having me around might make him behave.

00:35:42.632 --> 00:35:43.932
And it did.

00:35:44.092 --> 00:35:48.237
So I don't have any nasty stories Yeah.

00:35:48.518 --> 00:35:53.887
Well, it's amazing.

00:35:54.047 --> 00:35:55.389
I mean, it

00:35:57.994 --> 00:36:01.902
is such an iconic song, you know, especially with the harmonica.

00:36:01.922 --> 00:36:05.347
I mean, you must have a lot of pride when you hear that song.

00:36:05.387 --> 00:36:08.414
What do you think about, you know, what do you think about when you hear that song?

00:36:09.153 --> 00:36:16.360
So one of the things I quickly learned was don't watch Jim Morrison when you're playing with the Doors.

00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:23.266
You watch Ray Manzarek because he's going to be indicating everything to you.

00:36:23.746 --> 00:36:29.931
He was sort of the communicator for, I guess, any other musician.

00:36:30.052 --> 00:36:42.224
I was around frequently when they were recording, and I was around when they were playing with various bass players.

00:36:42.764 --> 00:36:44.487
That was very interesting.

00:36:44.648 --> 00:36:48.833
There were times when they didn't use that bass keyboard.

00:36:49.315 --> 00:36:51.998
Yeah, because Mandrake played that, didn't they?

00:36:52.018 --> 00:36:55.483
You were credited under the name of, what, G.

00:36:55.684 --> 00:36:57.025
Pugliese, is it?

00:36:57.065 --> 00:36:58.949
Instead of your own name for Contrast.

00:36:58.969 --> 00:37:02.494
So your name isn't actually on the credits for the album, yeah?

00:37:02.945 --> 00:37:38.088
So, yes, and that happened because Paul Rothschild asked me if I could maybe not use my name on the album because it was a moment when the doors were really beginning to happen and the spoonful was very well known, but Paul just wasn't anxious to associate me or the spoonful with the doors.

00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:42.132
And I had no problem with that.

00:37:42.733 --> 00:37:58.489
So what I used was the name that I would have been had my father not gone with the family middle name, Sebastiano, and kept Pugliese, by the way.

00:37:59.362 --> 00:38:09.119
Yeah, he was, I mean, you know, here he is, he's trying to be a classical harmonica, and the guys in college all call him Puggles.

00:38:11.362 --> 00:38:24.005
Fantastic, so yeah, but it is you, and, you know, fantastic, so it's a very successful song, I mean, did you just get like a one-off, you know, kind of session fee, or have you been getting royalties ever since you did that recording, John?

00:38:24.610 --> 00:38:26.311
No, no, no.

00:38:26.371 --> 00:38:28.793
You do the session, and that's that.

00:38:28.974 --> 00:38:30.215
Just a one-off payment, right?

00:38:30.275 --> 00:38:31.918
Yeah, but you didn't know it was going to be such a hit.

00:38:32.197 --> 00:38:34.000
And then you also played more with the Doors.

00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:43.730
There's a recording of you playing a live concert with the Doors, and you're playing Little Red Rooster, and Morrison introduces you at the top of the song.

00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:49.096
At this time, I would like to introduce a friend of ours, a very talented guy named John Sebastian.

00:38:49.315 --> 00:38:51.038
Come on, man.

00:38:52.001 --> 00:39:11.911
So you did, you

00:39:12.251 --> 00:39:16.938
know, you performed with them beyond that recording and did a little bit of touring with them.

00:39:16.980 --> 00:39:18.402
Was that a one-off or did you do more?

00:39:18.722 --> 00:39:22.045
There were, well, that was a New York show, I believe.

00:39:22.985 --> 00:39:28.771
And there might have been another, but I'm not sure.

00:39:29.291 --> 00:39:30.231
Yeah, but nice.

00:39:30.251 --> 00:39:30.952
I mean, fantastic.

00:39:30.972 --> 00:39:31.893
He has to play over the doors.

00:39:31.932 --> 00:39:33.695
So, obviously, a very iconic band.

00:39:34.094 --> 00:39:35.476
Well, like your own as well, of course.

00:39:35.536 --> 00:39:37.557
So, yeah, great stuff.

00:39:37.577 --> 00:39:40.681
And you did other session work as well.

00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:44.384
You played with Gordon Lightfoot, who was a folk singer.

00:39:44.463 --> 00:39:48.688
And you played some sort of Bob Dylan-style harmonica on this song.

00:39:48.688 --> 00:40:08.757
That's right!

00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:20.728
Yes, that was a session that happened at Jimmy's studio.

00:40:20.748 --> 00:40:25.262
Is that the session with me and Stephen Stills and him?

00:40:25.282 --> 00:40:25.342
I'm

00:40:26.204 --> 00:40:27.067
not sure about the other names.

00:40:27.086 --> 00:40:28.873
I just know it's a Timothy Leary album.

00:40:29.409 --> 00:40:43.931
Yes, I believe that the players on that include Jimi Hendrix and Steven Stills and maybe Harvey Brooks and

00:40:43.952 --> 00:40:44.152
me.

00:40:44.733 --> 00:40:47.418
So, yeah, I mean, you're mixing with all the big names there.

00:40:47.538 --> 00:40:49.701
So, amazing stuff, yeah.

00:40:50.362 --> 00:40:57.112
And you also play with Crosby, Stills and Nash, a famous song called Deja Vu, where you play some harmonic on that one.

00:40:58.094 --> 00:40:58.173
Yeah.

00:40:59.329 --> 00:41:01.246
Bye.

00:41:07.969 --> 00:41:08.710
Yes, indeed.

00:41:09.590 --> 00:41:09.650
Yep.

00:41:09.670 --> 00:41:19.699
And at that point, that was a kind of a great moment because when we had begun hanging out, they were still assembling.

00:41:20.081 --> 00:41:37.456
I mean, they almost, they sort of were still assembling when I talked them into coming up to my then home in Sag Harbor, New York, which is an old fishing, whaling community.

00:41:37.936 --> 00:41:42.914
to get them away from the Los Angeles blowing smoke.

00:41:43.873 --> 00:41:55.387
Everybody was telling them how marvelous they were, and it was the moment when I knew they had to be in New York and have guys go, hey, you could have done that better.

00:41:56.829 --> 00:41:58.851
Yeah, bring them back to Earth.

00:41:59.913 --> 00:42:00.753
Yeah, great.

00:42:00.773 --> 00:42:08.684
And also, when you left Living Springfield, you wrote a musical for Broadway, which Dustin Hoffman starred in.

00:42:09.284 --> 00:42:10.326
It's called Jimmy Shine.

00:42:11.362 --> 00:42:41.219
idea of refinement there i would have to say was i was told in no uncertain terms and in these words this is not a musical system this is a play with a few songs i said that k i i'm used to working my whole life has been with a four-piece band and the producer looks at me and says could you do it with three That was the atmosphere.

00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:51.610
I actually had a couple of nice songs that couldn't really be sung right because they didn't have singers.

00:42:51.771 --> 00:43:02.463
It wasn't intended to be a musical or people were not looking for singers to fill those roles.

00:43:05.378 --> 00:43:08.563
a great thing that they had dustin hoffman uh...

00:43:09.744 --> 00:43:11.606
fresh off of uh...

00:43:12.047 --> 00:43:16.835
midnight cowboy and so yes so that was uh...

00:43:17.135 --> 00:43:22.264
the real good thing something about the play uh...

00:43:22.423 --> 00:43:25.407
didn't really it was weak uh...

00:43:25.728 --> 00:43:26.329
and uh...

00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:43.489
but every night guy named eli mintz who played a fishmonger in this play would kill with a song that I wrote called There's a Future in Fish, Mr.

00:43:43.530 --> 00:43:43.951
Shine.

00:43:44.572 --> 00:43:51.260
So it was a kind of almost kind of a situation, you know?

00:43:51.521 --> 00:43:52.041
Yeah, nice.

00:43:52.322 --> 00:43:54.465
Was there any harmonica in this musical play?

00:43:55.010 --> 00:43:59.195
No, there wasn't, because I wasn't in the band, for one thing.

00:43:59.315 --> 00:44:00.637
I was, you know, now...

00:44:00.898 --> 00:44:02.360
You were writing the songs, yeah.

00:44:02.521 --> 00:44:02.740
Yeah.

00:44:03.503 --> 00:44:03.943
Oh, nice.

00:44:04.244 --> 00:44:13.277
So, another interesting thing you did is you created a homespun tuition called John Sebastian Teaches Blues Harmonica.

00:44:13.858 --> 00:44:21.849
Starting on your second hole, try inhaling, and first...

00:44:32.449 --> 00:44:36.849
I'm going to give you a little bit of a demonstration of tonguing now.

00:44:36.869 --> 00:44:36.889
I

00:44:38.695 --> 00:44:39.920
think it's still available now.

00:44:40.202 --> 00:44:41.829
Tell us about that one.

00:44:42.465 --> 00:44:59.128
Yes, well, that is part of an enormous body of instructional videos that Happy and Jane Traum have been doing right up until his quite recent death.

00:44:59.768 --> 00:45:08.521
They've been soliciting great instrumentalists of all types and asking for instruction.

00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:12.085
So yes, that was great fun to do.

00:45:12.449 --> 00:45:26.588
I did a harmonica one, I did an auto harp one, and I did a John Hurt instruction with Happy, who is also a John Hurt enthusiast.

00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:37.121
Nice, yeah, so I think that's still available for people to get hold of, because most of the homespun stuff is available, isn't it, online, so people can get hold of that?

00:45:37.262 --> 00:45:37.342
Yeah.

00:45:37.570 --> 00:45:40.675
So, I mean, we mentioned, obviously, you're living in Woodstock.

00:45:40.695 --> 00:45:43.498

John Sebastian interview

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