Feb. 6, 2022

Jim Conway interview

Jim Conway joins me on episode 55.
Jim is an Australian harmonica player who rose to fame at the age of 19 in the jug band: The Captain Matchbox Whoopee Band, with the first two albums from the band receiving gold record status. Jim also played kazoo with Captain Matchbox to great effect. The band evolved into the Conway Brothers act, before Jim decided he couldn’t continue after being diagnosed with MS.
But it wasn’t long before he felt the music calling him again and he joined The Backsliders, a blues band which he was a member of for seventeen years. He then went on to form a band under his own name, Jim Conway’s Big Wheel.
As well as some notable recordings as a session musician, including some film work, Jim also enjoyed the the great honour of touring Australia with Brownie McGhee in the late 1980s.

Links:
https://www.thecountryblues.com/artist-reviews/jim-conway/

Videos:
The Captain Matchbox Whoopee Band:
Mobile Line: https://youtu.be/eJ2wBc2tXXs
Your Feet’s Too Big: https://youtu.be/7uWT3aQZjDA
I Can’t Dance (I’ve Got Ants In My Pants):
https://youtu.be/Zy4jV6B08M0

Playing chromatic with Captain Matchbox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7c_mqAQEY

Conway Brothers Hiccups Orchestra - Dinosaur Songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgnOIKclEvw

Playing I Wish You Would with The Backsliders:
https://youtu.be/TRZ_nNn7i14

Sydney Paralympics Opening Ceremony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LRPn-pJkas

Documentary film on Jim:
https://youtu.be/wiq_fQ0XU-E

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:13 - Jim is from Sydney, Australia

01:29 - How he got started playing harmonica

01:41 - Formed a jug band at school with his brother Mic: The Jelly Bean jug band

01:58 - Brother-in-law to be showed Jim the basics of how to play harp, and he picked it up very quickly

02:20 - Grandfather was a renowned organ player who recorded some of first movie music in Australia

03:42 - Also has two relatives who were opera singers

04:07 - Early harmonica influences, including Memphis Jug Band and Junior Wells

05:32 - Blues scene in Australia

05:47 - Went to the same high school as Kylie Minogue (not at the same time)

06:28 - Jelly Bean Jug band morphed into The Captain Matchbox Whoopee Band

07:35 - Jim was instrumental in the rise in popularity of the jug band in Australia

07:46 - First two albums with Captain Matchbox were gold records

08:07 - Humour was a big part of the band, with videos available on YouTube

08:27 - Role of harmonica in jug band music

09:28 - Jim was also an accomplished kazoo player

09:57 - Any comparisons between playing kazoo and harmonica?

10:40 - Jim did some of the singing in Captain Matchbox, but brother was frontman

11:20 - The more Vaudeville elements of the band started to take Jim away from his true love, playing blues music

11:50 - The rise to fame of Captain Matchbox, when Jim was just 19

12:38 - How it felt to be propelled to harmonica stardom

14:07 - Had a job as a film editor before music took off

14:55 - Captain Matchbox first album was Smoke Dreams, in 1972

15:37 - Second album: Wangaratta Wahine in 1974

16:32 - Started bringing some gypsy jazz influences into the band

17:16 - Used a lot of first position playing, which he mainly developed by himself

18:55 - First position cut through in jug band setting

19:24 - Reunion tour in 2011 with Captain Matchbox

19:45 - Jim’s Big Wheel band

20:51 - The jug band morphed into the Conway Brothers Hiccup Orchestra band, who appeared at the Edinburgh Festival

22:11 - Dinosaur Party album by Conway Brothers

23:03 - Jim was diagnosed with MS in 1983, and after a few years decided to leave the Conway Brothers band

23:37 - Joined the Backsliders three-piece acoustic blues act

25:35 - Jim’s fame helped established the Backsliders on the music scene

26:08 - Difference in moving from a Jug Band to a blues act

27:10 - First album recorded with The Backsliders: Sitting On A Million in 1989,

28:19 - Jim co-produced Sitting On A Million album

28:56 - My Creole Bell song is playing using a high G tuned diatonic

29:45 - Second album with The Backsliders: Hellhound

30:10 - Recorded a version of I Wish You Would with another player, Chris Wilson

31:24 - Live album with The Backsliders and Georgia Rag song, played in country harp style

32:25 - Charlie McCoy’s playing on Candy Man was one of the first songs Jim learnt on harmonica

33:35 - Poverty Deluxe album with The Backsliders, which had more self-penned songs from the guitarist

35:05 - Jim doesn’t use effects pedals, using his own playing techniques to create different sounds

36:33 - Hanoi album has a Vietnamese angle

37:42 - Resigned from The Backsliders in 2006

38:07 - Formed and band under his own name: Jim Conway’s Big Wheel

42:05 - Often played chromatics in different keys to play melodic lines

43:36 - The decision to retire from performing on harmonica

44:41 - Played the opening ceremony of the Australian Paralympics in 2000

45:59 - Toured Australia with Brownie McGhee

48:58 - Recorded some film music

49:24 - The Jim Conway Blues documentary and another in the pipeline

49:53 - Used to teach the harmonica, but not anymore

50:25 - In 2003 awarded the Centenary Medal for contribution to the Arts

50:32 - 10 minute question

51:56 - Harmonicas of choice and using a blacksmith to build him custom harps

54:02 - Different tunings

54:17 - Embouchre

54:39 - Amps and mics

55:22 - Acoustic equipment used

56:06 - Effects

56:56 - How MS has impacted his harmonica playing, but he still plays for his own pleasure

57:59 - Jim still enjoys the harmonica

WEBVTT

00:00:00.481 --> 00:00:02.463
Jim Conway joins me on episode 55.

00:00:03.906 --> 00:00:14.660
Jim is an Australian harmonica player who rose to fame at the age of 19 in the jug band, the Captain Matchbox Whoopie Band, with the first two albums from the band receiving gold record status.

00:00:15.541 --> 00:00:18.925
Jim also played kazoo with Captain Matchbox to great effect.

00:00:19.626 --> 00:00:25.914
The band evolved into the Conway Brothers Act before Jim decided he couldn't continue after being diagnosed with MS.

00:00:26.914 --> 00:00:34.365
But it wasn't long before he felt the music calling him again and he joined the Backsliders, a blues band which he was a member of for 17 years.

00:00:35.006 --> 00:00:39.634
He then went on to form a band under his own name, Jim Conway's Big Wheel.

00:00:40.395 --> 00:00:51.792
As well as some notable recordings as a session musician, including some film work, Jim also enjoyed the great honour of touring Australia with Brownie McGee in the late 1980s.

00:01:07.522 --> 00:01:09.418
Hello Jim Conway and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:09.882 --> 00:01:12.061
Hello Neil, it's a pleasure to be here.

00:01:12.290 --> 00:01:14.152
Great to speak to you down in Australia.

00:01:14.212 --> 00:01:16.433
So I believe you're in Sydney, Australia, yep?

00:01:16.834 --> 00:01:17.034
That's

00:01:17.114 --> 00:01:17.495
correct.

00:01:17.775 --> 00:01:18.936
Were you born in Sydney?

00:01:19.396 --> 00:01:20.156
Well, it's weird.

00:01:20.216 --> 00:01:25.822
I was born in Sydney, grew up in Melbourne, then moved back to Sydney as an adult.

00:01:26.201 --> 00:01:29.224
Basically split my time between Sydney and Melbourne.

00:01:29.644 --> 00:01:31.727
And so how did you get into playing the harmonica?

00:01:31.986 --> 00:01:36.210
We had a blues club at my local high school in Victoria.

00:01:36.811 --> 00:01:44.569
I had an immediate love for the blues and that caused my brother and me to to start up a jug band at high school.

00:01:44.790 --> 00:01:46.802
Jug band was called the Jelly Bean Jug

00:01:46.942 --> 00:01:49.597
Band.

00:01:54.786 --> 00:01:57.968
It was sort of sounding okay from the very start.

00:01:58.108 --> 00:02:02.012
And my brother-in-law at the time played a bit of harmonica.

00:02:02.212 --> 00:02:04.353
He showed me how to bend a note.

00:02:04.694 --> 00:02:09.538
And from that time on, it was like it just came really naturally to me.

00:02:09.899 --> 00:02:17.626
My mother insisted that I work quite hard at it, but I just remember it just being a natural thing to me.

00:02:17.866 --> 00:02:19.587
What sort of age did you start playing the harmonica?

00:02:19.608 --> 00:02:20.328
16.

00:02:20.707 --> 00:02:23.670
Your grandfather was quite a renowned organ player.

00:02:23.770 --> 00:02:24.752
He was like a pop star.

00:02:24.752 --> 00:02:25.552
in his day.

00:02:25.612 --> 00:02:32.240
He was a theatre organist at the State Theatre in Sydney, which was in those days the equivalent of a pop star.

00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:33.561
He was very famous.

00:02:33.921 --> 00:02:36.024
I only remember him as an old man, of course.

00:02:36.564 --> 00:02:38.567
And he was a very fine organist.

00:02:38.586 --> 00:02:47.796
He had to work out how to play the Wurlitzer organ, the Wurlitzer theatre organ, which was kind of mechanical, not electronic like today.

00:02:48.257 --> 00:02:52.200
I understand he made the music for one of the first movies made in Australia.

00:02:52.542 --> 00:02:54.383
Yes, it was called Pearls and Savages.

00:02:54.704 --> 00:03:05.795
and it was indeed just as silent movies became sound movies i think before that he used to actually play the music in the background then movies started to include sound

00:03:06.295 --> 00:03:11.602
was he influential at all in you in your harmonica journey it sounds like he was maybe a bit late for that was it

00:03:11.782 --> 00:03:26.177
no uh really we didn't he wouldn't have approved i know his sister came to hear us play once uh this was after he died and she blamed us long after that for her oncoming deafness that it was so loud that she went deaf.

00:03:26.518 --> 00:03:27.699
That was not really true.

00:03:27.739 --> 00:03:30.002
It's just she wanted to blame us.

00:03:30.461 --> 00:03:37.490
The music we played, it was kind of jazz based, but it was not the kind of music my grandfather would have liked.

00:03:37.930 --> 00:03:40.152
Was this your father's father?

00:03:40.193 --> 00:03:41.913
Yeah, that was my father's father.

00:03:41.954 --> 00:03:46.058
But both my mother's brothers were trained as opera singers.

00:03:46.498 --> 00:03:53.606
One of them became a popular singer and the other one ended up teaching at the Manchester College of Music teaching opera.

00:03:53.967 --> 00:03:57.090
And he was also So a very world-renowned opera singer.

00:03:57.411 --> 00:03:58.692
Oh, you've definitely got it in the blood then.

00:03:58.912 --> 00:04:00.252
Yeah, well, that was John Cameron.

00:04:00.473 --> 00:04:02.895
And there might be some people who still remember him.

00:04:03.256 --> 00:04:06.217
So I see you started playing the harmonica around 16.

00:04:06.378 --> 00:04:08.520
So what were you listening to back then?

00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:10.742
Who were your sort of first influences when you started?

00:04:11.103 --> 00:04:14.004
Oh, I'd have to say the Memphis Jug Band.

00:04:23.233 --> 00:04:23.454
MUSIC PLAYS

00:04:23.810 --> 00:04:30.257
Amy Nixon playing with Sleepy John Estes.

00:04:30.497 --> 00:04:37.185
At the same time I was listening to Junior Wells, I would have to say that Junior Wells was one of the biggest influences.

00:04:37.487 --> 00:04:44.654
Even though I was more of an acoustic blues player, I was so flabbergasted with the sounds that Junior Wells made.

00:04:44.956 --> 00:04:52.644
I had that album that just about everyone you've interviewed puts down as a strongly influential album, Hoodoo Man Blues.

00:04:59.874 --> 00:05:00.093
MUSIC PLAYS

00:05:02.850 --> 00:05:05.442
That hour had a huge effect on me.

00:05:05.783 --> 00:05:12.112
But also in those days I was listening to the Love and Spoonful, the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band.

00:05:12.482 --> 00:05:17.286
and the Jim Queskin Jug Band, which also had a big influence on our Jug

00:05:17.326 --> 00:05:20.069
Band.

00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:31.641
It's

00:05:31.882 --> 00:05:34.925
interesting to see how blues spread around the world.

00:05:35.004 --> 00:05:39.410
So, you know, what was the blues scene like in Australia back then and even today?

00:05:40.098 --> 00:06:05.699
well in those days it was small but enthusiastic like I said there was a blues club at high school that same high school you'll be interested to know also spawned Kylie Minogue but much later yeah there was definitely interest in blues at my high school I just loved it from the start never imagined that I would be a player let alone a professional player eventually

00:06:05.939 --> 00:06:08.822
yeah fantastic you've never played with Kylie Minogue I take

00:06:09.283 --> 00:06:10.685
it no never even even met her.

00:06:10.944 --> 00:06:12.485
She's too famous for me to meet.

00:06:13.187 --> 00:06:14.867
So you mentioned the Jug Band there.

00:06:14.968 --> 00:06:17.730
So I think the Jelly Bean Jug Band was your first band.

00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:21.954
So I think at this time, Jug Bands were really popular in Australia, yeah?

00:06:22.014 --> 00:06:24.375
So this was the reason for the forming of the Jug Band, was it?

00:06:24.576 --> 00:06:33.244
I couldn't say they were popular until the band, the Jelly Bean Jug Band that we started morphed into just got a new name, really.

00:06:33.564 --> 00:06:40.029
At some stage, a couple of years later, we called it the Captain Matchbox Whoopie Band.

00:06:43.074 --> 00:07:04.798
Hey hello mama hello mama

00:07:12.610 --> 00:07:21.245
¶¶

00:07:22.689 --> 00:07:34.759
At that stage, we were just a bunch of goofy boys being kind of goofy on stage, making people laugh, as well as playing some pretty interesting blues-based music.

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.464
So were you part of the jug bands becoming popular in Australia then, with this Capture Match, Dick?

00:07:39.564 --> 00:07:46.451
I would say that there was a jug band before us, but we were conceivably the jug band that popularised it.

00:07:46.730 --> 00:07:52.656
Our first album, well, our first two albums, went gold and sold 40,000 copies.

00:07:52.656 --> 00:07:57.380
Which is a lot of records for a jug band in Australia.

00:07:57.440 --> 00:08:09.173
So all I can say is that I think it was the Captain Matchbox Whoopie band that popularized it because it was not only good music, but it was good to watch.

00:08:09.274 --> 00:08:09.913
It was funny.

00:08:10.115 --> 00:08:10.774
We were funny.

00:08:11.196 --> 00:08:19.084
Yeah, I've watched some of the YouTube clips from you playing back in the early 70s in the band and recommend everyone to listen to watch them because they are fantastic.

00:08:19.384 --> 00:08:19.845
Really great.

00:08:19.904 --> 00:08:21.706
And some great playing from you on there as well.

00:08:21.726 --> 00:08:26.331
Some really nice, long sections of harmonica too so you're very instrumental in the sound weren't you?

00:08:26.552 --> 00:09:17.447
Yeah well harmonica was always instrumental in jug bands I guess because really it started out in the poor rural parts of America people used improvised instruments like a jug for a bass a harmonica instead of a trumpet or and a banjo because you could make one of those at home there's a great recording of Gus Cannon someone asking him how did you get your first banjo and Gus Cannon who was in the one of the great original jug band players when asked about his first banjo said I made it out of an old biscuit tin and a guitar neck you know it's like they couldn't afford to buy the expensive instruments they could afford maybe to buy a catalogue guitar like a cheap guitar and this is Roebuck catalogue the original jug players were just incredible musicians

00:09:18.047 --> 00:09:26.909
yeah maybe shows as well isn't it that all this obsession we have with buying gear isn't so important they were able to make noises out of homemade instruments and implements.

00:09:27.231 --> 00:09:31.349
But I also have to say I was a notably good kazoo player.

00:09:31.682 --> 00:09:34.225
I kind of revolutionized kazoo playing.

00:09:34.264 --> 00:09:52.288
I don't quite know why, and I don't know that it's something I should be proud of, but my brother says that I should be proud of my kazoo playing because I used to sort of screech in the upper register, and it sounded like a clarinet or a very high trumpet, and it really cut through.

00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:52.330
¦

00:10:02.625 --> 00:10:06.230
Again, a very instrumental part of the sound of the band, isn't it, the kazoo?

00:10:06.711 --> 00:10:07.312
It was then.

00:10:07.331 --> 00:10:07.371
Do

00:10:07.753 --> 00:10:11.418
you see that as having some similarities to the harmonica playing or not?

00:10:11.837 --> 00:10:15.844
It's just something I did because people played kazoos in jug bands.

00:10:16.423 --> 00:10:18.567
It depends on your approach to the harmonica.

00:10:18.788 --> 00:10:27.919
The harmonica was sometimes when I was playing first position, it was taking the place of a clarinet in a trad jazz band.

00:10:28.500 --> 00:10:30.102
Maybe the kazoo was the trumpet.

00:10:30.482 --> 00:10:32.306
Again, improvised instruments.

00:10:32.833 --> 00:10:34.922
Yeah, but very effective, as you say.

00:10:34.961 --> 00:10:38.777
So you interchange between the harmonica and the kazoo in the band?

00:10:39.278 --> 00:10:40.221
That's correct, yeah.

00:10:40.418 --> 00:10:42.539
I sang a couple of songs in the band.

00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:45.863
But my brother was a much better singer than me, still is.

00:10:46.202 --> 00:10:49.485
He's got a great voice, particularly good for that jug band stuff.

00:10:49.546 --> 00:10:51.607
So I let him do most of the singing.

00:10:51.908 --> 00:10:53.469
And he was a great front man.

00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:55.071
I was a good side man.

00:10:55.410 --> 00:10:59.634
And I would get a few laughs by making sideways looks at him.

00:10:59.835 --> 00:11:02.297
But really, he was the front man of the band.

00:11:02.677 --> 00:11:05.639
Yeah, and I think from what I've seen, a real entertainer, yeah.

00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:12.605
He was a jug band, this kind of vaudeville kind of approach, these kind of theatrical kind of different genres of entertainment.

00:11:12.666 --> 00:11:15.249
He was really steeped in that, yeah.

00:11:15.528 --> 00:11:15.850
Yes.

00:11:15.990 --> 00:11:20.455
And of course, I loved the vaudeville side of things.

00:11:20.794 --> 00:11:29.124
But what happened for me, but this is after 20 years, was that the musical side of things entered strongly as well.

00:11:29.144 --> 00:11:32.267
And it tended to kind of dominate the sound.

00:11:32.528 --> 00:11:38.833
And we moved further and further away from the kind of blues thing that I so loved.

00:11:38.995 --> 00:11:49.645
But my brother became more and more attracted to vaudeville music hall and that's where we we differed really because to be honest i really just wanted to play the harmonica

00:11:50.025 --> 00:11:57.114
so going back to the start of this band so i think you were 19 when when you had the first hit which is my canary has lines under his eyes is

00:11:57.394 --> 00:12:00.738
it no my canary's got circles under its eyes

00:12:01.418 --> 00:12:10.288
so were you then launched into you know from being kind of you know unknown into being at least semi-famous what you were appearing on television making you know television appearances and

00:12:10.288 --> 00:12:13.410
Well, semi-famous is the operative word.

00:12:13.431 --> 00:12:16.715
I never was searching for fame.

00:12:16.995 --> 00:12:19.477
I just was having a great time playing.

00:12:19.778 --> 00:12:24.663
But really, things took off in a way that you wouldn't expect a jug band to take off.

00:12:25.104 --> 00:12:37.476
And we became quite popular in the 70s and turned into a touring band that went on, well, for at least 20 years I played with my brother and beyond.

00:12:37.496 --> 00:12:37.576
Yeah,

00:12:38.197 --> 00:12:52.873
so talking to various people on the podcast you hear that some of them kind of got that break when they were quite young yet and then suddenly they were propelled to like you say kind of semi-fame famous for a harmonica player right so you know i did that feel you know you just you just went along with the ride i guess

00:12:53.193 --> 00:13:15.938
well we just had a great time and we we had fun touring i mean some of the guys in the early band who were really really great players but they didn't like the lifestyle whereas my brother and i embraced the lifestyle so we kept touring and reforming the band if some of the guys decided they didn't want to be going on tour and living that lifestyle.

00:13:16.298 --> 00:13:20.024
So we kept reinventing the band, but it was always in the same

00:13:20.063 --> 00:13:34.701
flavour.

00:13:34.721 --> 00:13:36.764
Yeah, how many members did you have in the band usually?

00:13:37.504 --> 00:13:38.225
Six or seven.

00:13:38.946 --> 00:13:49.068
And if you look at, for instance, the Jim Quest and Jug Band, who had some very great players in them, they often had that number of people in the band.

00:13:49.409 --> 00:13:53.413
And there was another jug band in America called the Even Dozen Jug Band.

00:13:53.653 --> 00:13:55.855
And I imagine they had a dozen people in the band.

00:13:56.135 --> 00:13:58.398
Again, some really great players in that band.

00:13:58.658 --> 00:13:59.499
And where were you touring?

00:13:59.538 --> 00:14:01.179
Were you around Australia or beyond?

00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:04.283
All around Australia, everywhere in Australia.

00:14:04.442 --> 00:14:07.326
Australia is a very big country, if people don't realise.

00:14:07.365 --> 00:14:10.388
And before this, I think you were working as a film editor, weren't you?

00:14:10.628 --> 00:14:12.690
Yeah, I trained as a film editor.

00:14:12.730 --> 00:14:18.936
And I got to work on some Australian feature films in the 1970s.

00:14:18.956 --> 00:14:29.025
Then I I actually, after the Captain Matchbox Whoopie Band split up, I went to London and I ended up working for the BBC as an assistant editor.

00:14:29.326 --> 00:14:35.633
But I eventually came home because my heart was stuck on being a musician rather than a film editor.

00:14:35.913 --> 00:14:46.384
And I had several times when I had to make the choice between working in the film industry and being in bands, and I always chose to be in bands.

00:14:46.945 --> 00:14:47.725
Very good decision.

00:14:47.785 --> 00:14:53.653
So, yeah, it's worth it's out great for you so you guys released i think three albums was it

00:14:53.812 --> 00:15:18.293
i think it was four smoke drones was the first one and that was uh it was fully acoustic so That was the band where some people decided they didn't want to follow the lifestyle.

00:15:18.553 --> 00:15:31.666
So when we reformed the band, we got electric bass in the band, which may or may not have been a mistake because it suddenly went from being an acoustic jug band to being something slightly different.

00:15:31.905 --> 00:15:32.807
But that was good too.

00:15:33.427 --> 00:15:45.278
We actually had the Australian equivalent of a gold record hanging on my office wall from the record we made after that, which was Wangaratta Wahine.

00:15:56.738 --> 00:16:10.725
But for my money, the real, true Jug Band sound was in the original Captain Matchbox Whoopie Band, which was the Smoke Dreams album.

00:16:11.105 --> 00:16:17.671
So when you recorded these albums, were you in, certainly for the first one at least, Smoke Dreams, were you

00:16:20.714 --> 00:16:33.565
in a fully professional studio?

00:16:36.847 --> 00:16:41.985
And suddenly this hot club of France element came into the jug band.

00:16:42.225 --> 00:16:45.274
So it became kind of a very hot jug band.

00:16:45.456 --> 00:16:48.365
And I think that was partly why it was so successful.

00:16:48.706 --> 00:16:52.809
Were you then trying to play, you know, kind of gypsy jazz style harmonica?

00:16:53.330 --> 00:17:00.395
No, I just discovered the kind of playing fast squeaky harp worked in the context of what we created.

00:17:00.676 --> 00:17:03.139
Yeah, so a lot of high-end stuff played by you.

00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:04.640
Yeah, first position.

00:17:05.721 --> 00:17:07.501
It wasn't only first position.

00:17:07.942 --> 00:17:09.824
I played second position as well.

00:17:10.345 --> 00:17:15.788
You know, some pretty heart-wrenching kind of long notes and things like that in second position.

00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:18.571
But the first position stuff was kind of...

00:17:18.672 --> 00:17:23.707
and the way I played the first position stuff was the way I played it.

00:17:23.748 --> 00:17:26.115
I wasn't trying to play like anyone else.

00:17:26.476 --> 00:17:32.413
Like many of your other interviewees, I was highly influenced by Jimmy Reed.

00:17:48.066 --> 00:17:51.971
When I heard Jimmy Reed, that's how I worked out to play first position.

00:17:52.231 --> 00:18:00.045
And then I developed my own style of jug band playing from, first of all, working out Jimmy Reed's playing.

00:18:00.545 --> 00:18:03.529
And you mentioned you did listen to some of the jug bands earlier on as well.

00:18:03.871 --> 00:18:05.814
Were there some of those players that you were influenced by?

00:18:05.834 --> 00:18:08.498
So they did play quite a lot of first position stuff too, didn't they?

00:18:08.834 --> 00:18:09.515
Yeah, they did.

00:18:09.535 --> 00:18:23.272
And of course, later on, I was influenced by Dee Ford Bailey and quite a number of people like Jazz Gillum, quite a number of people who were on that Harmonica Blues album.

00:18:23.493 --> 00:18:30.001
But before I heard those people, I'd already developed my own first position style.

00:18:30.282 --> 00:18:32.645
And I can't tell you where that came from.

00:18:32.726 --> 00:18:34.909
It just came from the ether, really.

00:18:35.128 --> 00:18:35.869
It just happened.

00:18:36.330 --> 00:18:38.614
I didn't try and sound like anyone else.

00:18:38.882 --> 00:18:41.825
but I did develop a style that suited the music.

00:18:42.045 --> 00:18:46.989
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously most blues players, you know, work in second position mainly.

00:18:47.028 --> 00:18:52.854
So do you think you kind of really learnt your chops more in first position earlier on and has that influenced your sound quite a lot?

00:18:53.074 --> 00:18:54.055
I wouldn't say that.

00:18:54.335 --> 00:19:04.904
I would say more that because we were a jug band, the first position really cut through in the jug band because it was like a five or six piece band right at the beginning.

00:19:04.924 --> 00:19:13.133
We were making quite a lot of noise acoustically and the first position kind of cut through the sound of an acoustic band.

00:19:13.613 --> 00:19:17.277
But certainly the second position drove the band as well.

00:19:17.537 --> 00:19:18.518
It was both really.

00:19:18.858 --> 00:19:28.489
So you went on, you had a good, certainly a successful time through the 70s with these guys and you did a, jumping ahead a little bit, you did a Reignited 2 with them in 2011.

00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:30.230
Yes, we did.

00:19:30.530 --> 00:20:25.678
What happened was that my brother had a band that played his kind of music and then I had a band that I called my own and well that was my brother's band was the National Junk Band which was kind of carrying on the tradition of the Junk Band and I at that stage started my own band called Jim Conway's Big Wheel and that was more melodic and it initially started out to be a jump blues band but it somehow evolved into just a band that played music that I liked so there was blues, jump blues and even country sounding stuff we brought in players from from my brother's band, my brother Mick's band, the National Drunk Band, and my band, Jim Conway's Big Wheel, and we played the old Captain Matchbox repertoire.

00:20:25.698 --> 00:20:25.917
MUSIC PLAYS

00:20:26.273 --> 00:20:31.739
Great, and was that really popular?

00:20:32.439 --> 00:20:34.441
Did you do a bit of a tour and get a lot of audiences?

00:20:35.241 --> 00:20:42.327
Yeah, we did the East Coast Blues Festival, which is a big blues festival in Sydney, and we did the Port Ferry Folk Festival.

00:20:42.587 --> 00:20:46.491
We did quite a number of popular festivals around Australia.

00:20:46.511 --> 00:20:49.894
Yeah, so people remembered the band, did they, from the 70s when it came out?

00:20:50.214 --> 00:20:50.494
Yes.

00:20:50.875 --> 00:20:54.238
So the Jug Band, did that morph into the Conway Brothers?

00:20:55.118 --> 00:21:02.606
It did, and the Conway Brothers Conway Brothers, by this stage, my brother had moved to Sydney too, and I was already in Sydney.

00:21:03.086 --> 00:21:04.969
I decided to get back together with him.

00:21:05.328 --> 00:21:12.656
And that's when we started the Conway Brothers, which was really a continuation of what we'd done before, but in a different city.

00:21:13.157 --> 00:21:18.282
And there was a burgeoning cabaret scene in Sydney, and we took advantage of that.

00:21:18.722 --> 00:21:24.348
And that Conway Brothers eventually ended up appearing at the Edinburgh Festival.

00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:24.990
Mm-hmm.

00:21:25.506 --> 00:21:34.933
We were one of the first acts to appear in the Spiegel tent, which at that stage was set up in London and then moved on to the Edinburgh Festival.

00:21:35.153 --> 00:21:37.757
And we travelled with it to the Edinburgh Festival.

00:21:38.416 --> 00:21:41.380
So you did a tour around the UK at this time as well, did you?

00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:42.580
Yes, we did.

00:21:42.961 --> 00:21:45.303
So Conway Brothers Hiccup Orchestra, is

00:21:45.804 --> 00:21:46.104
that it?

00:21:46.263 --> 00:21:53.269
Yeah, my brother always loved silly names and we just kept inventing more and more silly names.

00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:55.372
But Intent, it was really...

00:21:55.471 --> 00:21:58.295
a continuation of the same kind of silliness.

00:21:58.734 --> 00:22:00.196
Yeah, so this was still a jug band then?

00:22:00.416 --> 00:22:08.205
It was something else, but it was where, if the jug band had continued, where the jug band would have ended up, if you like.

00:22:08.546 --> 00:22:15.373
So one album I found with this band is an album of dinosaur songs, which is a kind of children's album.

00:22:15.413 --> 00:22:27.154
The evolution shuffle You can even see it now Come on out and take a How

00:22:29.249 --> 00:22:31.201
did that one come about?

00:22:31.938 --> 00:22:39.924
Well, my brother became a very popular children's performer and probably as a result of that album.

00:22:40.224 --> 00:22:45.690
This guy had written a whole lot of children's songs and he wanted us to record the songs for him.

00:22:46.109 --> 00:22:50.574
So we were paid to record those songs that that guy had written.

00:22:51.414 --> 00:22:56.058
So I think you were playing in the Conway Brothers until 1988.

00:22:56.338 --> 00:23:03.385
You then joined a band which you were in for a long time, which is a more of a full-on blues band called the I

00:23:03.405 --> 00:23:07.752
was diagnosed with MS in about 1983.

00:23:08.233 --> 00:23:14.124
I continued to try and continue the kind of comedy style of music.

00:23:14.384 --> 00:23:20.394
I found myself to be less and less funny, if you like, and I just didn't feel like being funny anymore.

00:23:20.705 --> 00:23:23.828
And so I thought it might be time to retire.

00:23:23.848 --> 00:23:29.854
So by about 1988, I just said, look, I don't think I can do this anymore.

00:23:30.193 --> 00:23:31.535
I can't be funny anymore.

00:23:31.816 --> 00:23:45.508
So I left my brother's band and lo and behold, almost immediately was asked to join the Backsliders, which was a three-piece acoustic band with a percussion, including washboard.

00:23:45.548 --> 00:23:49.151
And it was a kind of raucous acoustic blues band.

00:23:49.171 --> 00:23:50.632
And I thought, oh, that's all right.

00:23:50.652 --> 00:24:08.191
I they were only playing sunday nights or sunday afternoons at that stage and i thought that's a nice way to retire uh lo and behold i ended up staying in the backsliders for 17 years and touring to major festivals around australia again so there was no escape

00:24:08.611 --> 00:24:15.337
great but uh yeah so a good time with those guys as well so again more of a you know more of a full-on blues band this one

00:24:15.659 --> 00:24:24.672
well when you say full-on it was acoustic but it was specifically blues bay But, you know, more country blues than Chicago blues.

00:24:24.912 --> 00:24:26.775
We didn't have amplifiers or anything.

00:24:26.955 --> 00:24:28.439
It was all acoustic guitars.

00:24:28.719 --> 00:24:34.589
And I played acoustic harmonica.

00:24:53.281 --> 00:24:56.964
And the backsliders became, again, surprisingly popular.

00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:06.837
And I think we played the East Coast Blues Festival, which I think I explained before is quite an important blues festival in Australia.

00:25:07.118 --> 00:25:09.421
Many American artists want to play at that one.

00:25:09.780 --> 00:25:11.582
We played that 13 times.

00:25:12.242 --> 00:25:15.226
Before you joined, they weren't particularly well known, were they not?

00:25:16.006 --> 00:25:17.227
It rose more to prominence.

00:25:17.607 --> 00:25:18.208
No, that's right.

00:25:18.729 --> 00:25:23.031
I have to say that the harmonica player that I replaced was very good.

00:25:23.071 --> 00:25:35.163
He and I were probably the most appropriate harmonica player for that band but he fell out of favour with the band for reasons I never really understood and they asked me to replace him.

00:25:35.545 --> 00:25:42.152
So I mean did you have some you know some fame from your previous exploits that you think that helped raise the band's profile?

00:25:42.332 --> 00:26:01.113
Oh yes I do I do think it helped a lot and it also helped build up the band and build up the band's popularity to the point the Port Fairy Folk Festival we would get 2,000 people come to our shows and they would have to close the tent no more people because the tent only held 2,000 people.

00:26:01.133 --> 00:26:08.182
Yeah, and I think some of that was to do with my popularity from playing with Captain Matchbox.

00:26:08.442 --> 00:26:08.643
Yeah.

00:26:08.963 --> 00:26:14.570
So what about moving from a jug band with, like you say, maybe like six members down to playing in a trio?

00:26:15.011 --> 00:26:22.520
Well, the trio was beautiful for me because it gave me a lot of space to fill without overplaying.

00:26:22.662 --> 00:26:28.570
I much of my time I've spent trying not to fight with other instruments, if you like.

00:26:28.811 --> 00:26:40.192
But when you've only got one guitar player and he's singing as well, that leaves a lot of room for the harmonica, but as a kind of structural instrument and not just a solo instrument.

00:26:40.992 --> 00:26:46.551
In the Jug Band, we had banjos and two guitars, lots of stuff going on.

00:26:46.992 --> 00:26:52.497
But in the backsliders, there was a guitar, me, a percussionist, and a vocalist.

00:26:53.117 --> 00:27:00.805
And it was pretty raucous, and the percussionist was very entertaining because of the way he carried on on stage.

00:27:00.825 --> 00:27:03.826
So that was a large part of our popularity.

00:27:04.307 --> 00:27:09.791
And Peter Burgess was the percussionist, and he was brilliant as an entertainer.

00:27:10.413 --> 00:27:13.836
Talking through something, so the first album you made with them called...

00:27:13.935 --> 00:27:19.107
Sitting on a Million is a really great album and certainly one of my favorites, having listened through a lot of your

00:27:19.167 --> 00:27:32.157
music.

00:27:34.721 --> 00:27:36.282
Is that one you're proud of?

00:27:36.604 --> 00:27:42.669
I'm particularly proud of that because I and a guitar player friend of mine produced that album.

00:27:43.009 --> 00:27:52.877
And I think it was possibly the biggest selling Backsliders album because it appealed to a folk music audience more than a kind of rock audience.

00:27:53.438 --> 00:27:55.160
And that was really strong.

00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:04.127
And I got a chance to make some creative decisions which really enhanced the acoustic nature of the band.

00:28:04.688 --> 00:28:09.954
One of the decisions I made was there would be no electric instruments on that recording.

00:28:10.655 --> 00:28:18.746
I don't know if that was a particularly popular decision with the guitar player in the band, but I think that put us in our own genre in that sense.

00:28:19.446 --> 00:28:21.108
So what does it mean to produce an album?

00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:22.471
What does that involve?

00:28:23.010 --> 00:28:28.999
You have to discover what is the essence of the band and be true to that essence.

00:28:29.358 --> 00:28:31.061
I think that was really what it was about.

00:28:31.586 --> 00:28:33.828
And the arrangements were already there.

00:28:34.190 --> 00:28:39.176
So I didn't really have to change the arrangements or do a great deal of changing.

00:28:39.557 --> 00:28:45.365
But what I wanted to do was capture the sound of the band that made it popular.

00:28:56.602 --> 00:28:58.986
Creole Bell, I always loved that song.

00:28:59.298 --> 00:29:06.989
And I particularly enjoyed playing it because our arrangement of it was quite different to what you might have heard before.

00:29:07.028 --> 00:29:15.461
I've noticed that you ask many harmonica players about whether they use special tunings and what harps they like to play.

00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:19.846
I've noticed that many people don't say, I like to play a high G.

00:29:20.508 --> 00:29:28.089
What I played on that particular song worked because I played a high G on that song in second position.

00:29:28.411 --> 00:29:35.079
If I were to play a low G on that song, I would never have come up with that way of playing that riff.

00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:38.184
Yeah, I think the high G is a really good secret weapon, isn't it?

00:29:38.224 --> 00:29:40.488
Exactly that, because it's so low in the mix, isn't it?

00:29:40.528 --> 00:29:44.513
And then playing that high one, it's definitely a harmonica worth having in your arsenal, isn't it?

00:29:44.894 --> 00:29:47.357
So another album you produced for those was Hellhound in 1991.

00:29:59.905 --> 00:30:01.488
It was another studio album.

00:30:01.887 --> 00:30:09.977
In the same studio as Sitting on a Million, it was just a bit different for political reasons within the band.

00:30:10.257 --> 00:30:14.281
A song you recorded on the Hellhound album was Wish You Would.

00:30:14.321 --> 00:30:19.186
It had Billy Boy Arnold on it a few episodes ago, and it's a great song.

00:30:19.386 --> 00:30:28.998
I've got a nice clip of you playing that live with another harmonica player called Chris Wilson on YouTube, which I've got a link to.

00:30:29.018 --> 00:30:29.117
Hello.

00:30:52.961 --> 00:30:55.467
Well, Chris Wilson was a very good friend of mine.

00:30:56.053 --> 00:30:58.791
Unfortunately, he died a year or so ago.

00:30:58.832 --> 00:31:03.596
He was a phenomenal vocalist and a legendary Australian blues man.

00:31:03.837 --> 00:31:08.763
But I met him through the Backsliders, where we did some collaborative shows together on that.

00:31:09.344 --> 00:31:15.551
We became lifelong friends as a consequence of meeting at that time.

00:31:15.592 --> 00:31:19.297
We did quite a number of shows together with the Backsliders.

00:31:19.336 --> 00:31:23.402
The sad part is that Chris's life ended way too short.

00:31:24.354 --> 00:31:31.221
An album you did do was another one with those guys was Live at the Royal in 92 and a song on there I picked out was Georgia Rag.

00:31:46.439 --> 00:31:50.423
This is a good example of your country style of harmonica.

00:31:50.963 --> 00:31:58.474
I had played quite a lot of country style harmonica with singer-songwriters and the like.

00:31:58.674 --> 00:32:08.103
So my country style of playing was quite developed because all of the time I was playing, I was doing session work as well.

00:32:08.564 --> 00:32:13.847
And so I had to be versatile and able to play lots of different styles.

00:32:14.248 --> 00:32:18.893
My love was in playing blues, but I played quite a lot of country style.

00:32:19.153 --> 00:32:24.901
And I must say, I loved playing singer-songwriter types songs and country style songs.

00:32:25.402 --> 00:32:29.451
Yeah and I think Charlie McCoy is someone you've been influenced by for that style.

00:32:29.991 --> 00:32:44.397
One of the first songs I learnt when I was learning to play the harmonica was Candyman and at that stage I had no idea who played the harmonica on Roy Orbison's Candyman.

00:32:44.438 --> 00:32:48.761
It's only much later that I found out it was actually Charlie McCoy.

00:32:49.102 --> 00:32:52.904
And I became a huge fan of Charlie McCoy later on.

00:32:53.326 --> 00:32:59.270
But that riff that he plays on Candyman was one of the first riffs that I ever learned on the harmonica.

00:32:59.550 --> 00:33:07.438
And that riff is also quite similar to a riff that we played in the first jug band that we had, which was Going to German.

00:33:07.698 --> 00:33:15.346
It's a kind of descending, melodic, line that's not unlike that riff that Charlie McCoy plays in Candyman.

00:33:15.605 --> 00:33:16.807
Yeah, and I think you're right, isn't it?

00:33:16.887 --> 00:33:21.712
That kind of country style harmonica is often in demand for session work, isn't it?

00:33:21.732 --> 00:33:23.615
You hear a lot of that kind of style.

00:33:24.355 --> 00:33:25.936
You know, it's very popular, isn't it, to play that.

00:33:25.957 --> 00:33:28.200
So it's good to be able to play that style as well.

00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:32.805
Well, it's, you know, a diatonic scale rather than a blues scale.

00:33:33.305 --> 00:33:34.306
It's as simple as that.

00:33:34.646 --> 00:33:34.846
Yeah.

00:33:35.227 --> 00:33:41.035
An album in 99 you did with those guys is Poverty Deluxe, which was nominated for for best blues and roots album.

00:33:41.214 --> 00:33:41.435
Yes.

00:33:41.717 --> 00:33:44.502
This is a bit less straight up blues, isn't it?

00:33:44.763 --> 00:33:59.357
Well, what happened was after quite a while of the Backsliders playing Lead Belly songs, Robert Johnson songs and Fred McDowell songs, The guitar player in the band had written one or two songs, and I said, they're good songs.

00:33:59.818 --> 00:34:02.742
Why don't we try writing more songs for the band?

00:34:02.782 --> 00:34:16.885
And he jumped at the opportunity, and suddenly much of the material we were playing was original material, but also combined with the best of the traditional stuff that we were doing.

00:34:17.206 --> 00:34:18.927
Yeah, the song on this album is Jack.

00:34:18.967 --> 00:34:20.811
We've got some high-end playing there.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:34:35.681 --> 00:34:39.550
So it's just going back to the first position playing that you were talking about earlier on.

00:34:40.331 --> 00:34:45.742
Yeah, but that was another one where I don't know where that riff came from.

00:34:45.842 --> 00:34:53.757
It's not like I could say, you know, because it's a much more modern song, but I don't know where that riff came from.

00:34:54.057 --> 00:34:55.960
It's like the Creole Bell riff.

00:34:56.322 --> 00:34:58.246
It just came from the ether.

00:34:58.561 --> 00:35:03.108
I'm kind of proud of that because it wasn't like I was channeling someone else.

00:35:03.449 --> 00:35:04.911
I was channeling Jim Conway.

00:35:05.472 --> 00:35:11.942
And another thing which is noticeable on some of your recordings is that you often have quite a strong effect on the album.

00:35:11.981 --> 00:35:17.431
So the song White Cross is quite heavily, there's kind of a heavy reverb on those and you do a good growl on those.

00:35:19.534 --> 00:35:19.614
Yeah.

00:35:30.786 --> 00:35:32.771
So

00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:37.204
is that something you'd like to use?

00:35:37.945 --> 00:35:40.612
Well, when you say effect, I didn't use...

00:35:40.632 --> 00:35:42.358
I mean, I used reverb, of course.

00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:45.025
But any of those effects that you hear...

00:35:45.409 --> 00:35:47.431
They're actually physical effects.

00:35:47.572 --> 00:35:53.536
If I'm doing a growl, it's because I'm doing, I'm closing off in my epiglottis.

00:35:54.978 --> 00:35:56.119
That's kind of sound.

00:35:56.760 --> 00:36:02.164
Or flutter toning, like, that's not stuff that weren't electronic effects.

00:36:02.425 --> 00:36:06.027
I never used electronic effects apart from reverb.

00:36:06.248 --> 00:36:06.688
Oh, that's really

00:36:06.728 --> 00:36:10.672
interesting because you definitely get a sound that, you know, sounds like using electronic effects.

00:36:10.711 --> 00:36:11.952
So yeah, it's really interesting that.

00:36:11.992 --> 00:36:12.974
So it's all just done.

00:36:13.434 --> 00:36:14.414
There's no effects added.

00:36:14.514 --> 00:36:15.295
It's all acoustic.

00:36:15.315 --> 00:36:15.916
You playing yeah

00:36:16.438 --> 00:36:32.623
yes everything I do in the backslides is acoustic and apart from reverb yeah which is natural in a recording studio it's all me just adding an effect like flutter tanging or yeah That sound, snoring effect.

00:36:33.505 --> 00:36:39.349
And then the album Hanoi in 2002 won you guys an award for best blues and roots album.

00:36:39.389 --> 00:36:42.572
So this is definitely not a blues album, right?

00:36:43.072 --> 00:36:45.355
This is the sort of self-produced songs again, is it?

00:36:45.594 --> 00:36:52.460
The guitar player in the band became a very good songwriter and he guarded his songwriting jealously.

00:36:53.021 --> 00:36:55.724
So mostly he was not collaborative.

00:36:55.844 --> 00:37:04.092
So if we wanted to contribute songs to the band, we had to go out and create them ourselves and bring them to the band.

00:37:04.972 --> 00:37:07.356
Hanoi, is that some sort of Vietnamese connection?

00:37:07.876 --> 00:37:20.949
The aforementioned guitar player was a teacher in a school that taught languages and part of his job was to try and bring in students from different countries to Australia to study.

00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:25.795
So he spent quite a lot of time in Vietnam trying to attract students.

00:37:26.195 --> 00:37:30.159
So he definitely had a Vietnamese influence in his songs.

00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:41.460
And

00:37:42.923 --> 00:37:45.728
then you resigned from the Backsliders in 2016.

00:37:46.952 --> 00:37:48.074
What made you make that decision?

00:37:48.673 --> 00:37:59.864
the relationship with that guitar player in particular became toxic to the point that I couldn't do it anymore.

00:38:00.344 --> 00:38:07.369
But having said that, I was already in the process of setting up my own band because that relationship wasn't working.

00:38:07.831 --> 00:38:22.043
So I just set up Jim Conway's Big Wheel as an alternative to the Backsliders, but not to replace the Backsliders, but when it became too hard for me to keep working in the backsliders, I concentrated on my own band.

00:38:22.384 --> 00:38:24.204
And that went quite well for a while too.

00:38:24.746 --> 00:38:25.686
Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:38:25.746 --> 00:38:29.349
So as you said, Big Wheel was a big success for you, wasn't it?

00:38:29.369 --> 00:38:32.914
And it was the first album in 2004, or was it?

00:38:33.193 --> 00:38:35.076
Is that Little Story, that album?

00:38:35.436 --> 00:38:35.996
That's right.

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Jim Conway interview

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