April 19, 2023

Hendrik Meurkens interview

Hendrik Meurkens joins me on episode 84. Hendrik is a German chromatic player who has been living in New York since the early 1990s. Toots Thielemans was Hendrik’s inspiration to take up the chromatic and he performed a live radio show in Germany with Toots. Hendrik is also a vibraphone player, which he studied at the Berklee College of Music. Shortly after this he spent a year in Brazil to immerse himself in the music there. This helped him form his brand of Brazilian music, Samba Jazz. He...

Hendrik Meurkens joins me on episode 84.
Hendrik is a German chromatic player who has been living in New York since the early 1990s.
Toots Thielemans was Hendrik’s inspiration to take up the chromatic and he performed a live radio show in Germany with Toots.
Hendrik is also a vibraphone player, which he studied at the Berklee College of Music. Shortly after this he spent a year in Brazil to immerse himself in the music there. This helped him form his brand of Brazilian music, Samba Jazz.
Hendrik has a large album catalogue, including six albums with the prestigious jazz label Concord, and has performed and recorded with some of the biggest names in Brazilian and jazz music.

Links:

Hendrik's website:
https://hendrikmeurkens.com/

Bandcamp site:
https://hendrikmeurkens.bandcamp.com/

Hendrik’s album catalogue:
https://hendrikmeurkens.com/portfolio/

Tutorial site:
https://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/artist/artists/hendrik-meurkens/

Videos:

Hendrick playing vibes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbIMf3iMNkQ

Tribute To Toots concert in Uruguay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jcUG7RTNWQ

Playing with WDR Big Band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzyE4Yv2xlo

Playing at the Blue Note in New York:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuIAVFDAmqA

Sambatropolis with WDR Big Band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_G2RuvtyMI

Dolores Claiborne movie clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMimK5uUik

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS

Support the show

01:32 - Hendrik is first and foremost a jazz musician

01:51 - Born in Germany and later moved to New York City

02:39 - Had piano lessons as a child, played a little drums, but first serious instrument was the vibraphone

03:40 - Famous vibraphone players

04:10 - Toots inspired Hendrik to take up the chromatic

04:50 - Doesn’t see any similarities between vibraphone and chromatic harmonica

05:35 - Attended the Berkeley School of Music in 1977, where he studied vibraphone, playing some chromatic on the side

06:13 - Entirely self-taught on chromatic

06:54 - Saw Toots performing live a few times

07:17 - Hendrik played a Toots tribute concert in Uruguay, shortly after Toots had passed away

07:49 - Toots released two albums of Brazilian music

08:00 - Chromatic harmonica works really well in Brazilian music, and some of the limitations of chromatic in jazz music

08:45 - Hendrik fell in love with Brazilian music before he heard Toots play it

09:26 - Recorded a live radio broadcast with Toots in Germany in the early 1990s

10:08 - Hendrik performed at the 100th birthday celebration for Toots in Brussels in 2022

10:41 - Moved back to Germany and played in a swing band and as a session musician for several years

11:46 - Played with some big bands in Europe, and what’s it like playing with them

14:28 - Plays Brazilian music, Samba Jazz, moving there for a year in the early 1980s to immerse himself in the music and culture

15:54 - Strong harmonica presence in Brazilian music

17:38 - Hendrik’s decision to move to Brazil in the early 80s was based on going to the source of the music

18:45 - Had a regular Monday night gig in Rio, and how a German accepted by local musicians

19:34 - Won first prize of the German Phono Academy for Jazz in 1983

19:59 - Hendrik has recorded 26 albums in his own name

20:35 - Recording albums is more of a challenge these days, due to streaming

21:13 - Chromatic harmonica sound quality can be problematic when playing live. This isn’t a problem when recording

22:01 - First album released was Samba Importado in 1989, recorded in Brazil

22:19 - Composes a lot of songs on album himself

23:25 - Story of how Hendrik signed with Concord records, with second album, Sambahia, including sax player Paquito D’Rivera

26:29 - Signing with Concord earned Hendrik his Green Card into the US

26:54 - Moved to New York in 1992, the best jazz scene in the world

27:59 - Has performed at the Blue Note jazz club in New York

28:14 - Competitive music environment of New York

29:17 - Clear of Clouds album from 1992

29:52 - First New York album was A View From Manhattan, recorded in 1993

30:30 - October Colours album from 1994, Hendrik’s ‘desert island disc’

31:35 - Album in 1997 with the New York Samba Jazz All-stars, and careful use of high notes on the chromatic

33:26 - Two albums with eminent guitarist Mundell Lowe

34:30 - Hendrik still likes to release albums even though the money return is not what it was

35:44 - Amazon River album from 2004

37:41 - Chorinho is another style of Brazilian music played by Hendrik

38:30 - Junity album with pianist Misha Tsiganov

39:39 - Harmonicus Rex album has Jimmy Cobb on drums, who was the drummer from the Miles Davis Kind of Blue album

41:18 - Cabin In The Sky album from 2018, and albums that followed

42:33 - Recently recorded a Christmas album

43:31 - Some of other artists Hendrik has recorded with, mostly on New York session scene

44:12 - Recordings with Bossa Nova piano legend Manfredo Fest

44:52 - Wrote a song with the movie Dolores Claiborne, starring Kathy Burke, with Hendrik appearing in the movie playing the song

45:27 - Hendrik uses the piano when composing (although he wouldn’t call himself a piano player), and writing lyrics

46:47 - Has an online teaching resource and teaches online and private lessons

47:32 - Appeared at the Trossingen festival in Germany in the 1990s

47:46 - Hendrik’s view on the crop of current chromatic jazz players, which evolution of jazz supports

49:02 - Challenges of playing jazz on the chromatic

50:24 - The pros and cons of being accepted playing jazz on the chromatic harmonica

51:57 - Doesn’t play any diatonic or any other type of harmonica besides chromatic

52:13 - 10 minute question and practise regime

53:27 - Plays 12 hole chromatics only these days (used to play some 16 hole)

53:46 - Only plays chromatic in key of C

54:25 - Customiser sets-up Hendrik’s instrument

54:54 - Plays Hohner 270 chromatics

55:18 - Embouchre: lip purser

55:42 - DM48 MIDI chromatic, doesn’t own one but sounds interesting

56:13 - Favourite keys playing on C chromatic

56:56 - Amplification

57:14 - Effects used is just reverb

57:38 - Future plans

WEBVTT

00:00:00.289 --> 00:00:02.533
Hendrik Merkens joins me on episode 84.

00:00:02.573 --> 00:00:07.541
Hendrik is a German chromatic player who has been living in New York since the early 1990s.

00:00:08.243 --> 00:00:14.554
Toots Thielmans was Hendrik's inspiration to take up the chromatic and he performed a live radio show in Germany with Toots.

00:00:15.394 --> 00:00:19.242
Hendrik is also a vibraphone player which he studied at the Berklee College of Music.

00:00:19.777 --> 00:00:24.004
Shortly after this he spent a year in Brazil to immerse himself in the music there.

00:00:24.364 --> 00:00:28.070
This helped him form his brand of Brazilian music, Samba Jazz.

00:00:28.530 --> 00:00:38.526
Hendrik has a large album catalogue including six albums with the prestigious jazz label Concord and has performed and recorded with some of the biggest names in Brazilian and jazz music.

00:00:39.267 --> 00:00:43.552
Please excuse the background noise behind Hendrik in the first nine minutes of the episode.

00:00:44.054 --> 00:00:45.957
The noise does abate after that point.

00:00:46.618 --> 00:00:49.101
This podcast is sponsored by Zydal Harmonicas.

00:00:49.442 --> 00:00:58.829
visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

00:01:27.489 --> 00:01:29.774
Hello Hendrik Merkens and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:30.353 --> 00:01:31.656
Hello, nice to be here.

00:01:31.697 --> 00:01:34.801
Thanks so much for joining and great to have you on.

00:01:34.820 --> 00:01:38.046
I think it's fair to say that you're a serious jazzer.

00:01:38.486 --> 00:01:42.674
Yeah, well, I guess I am a jazz musician first and a harmonica player second.

00:01:43.375 --> 00:01:45.798
At least that's how it started chronologically.

00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:50.566
I played vibraphone first, so I'm really a jazz musician who then picked up the harmonica.

00:01:51.170 --> 00:01:53.552
So just starting out a little bit about your early life.

00:01:53.591 --> 00:01:56.875
So you were born in Germany and now you're living in New York, yeah?

00:01:57.254 --> 00:02:02.359
Yes, I was born in Hamburg, Germany, and Dutch father, German mother.

00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:04.281
But I traveled a lot.

00:02:04.481 --> 00:02:07.364
After high school, I actually went to America for the first time.

00:02:07.444 --> 00:02:10.347
I studied at the Berklee College in Boston for three years.

00:02:10.426 --> 00:02:12.168
Then I went back to Germany for a minute.

00:02:12.207 --> 00:02:18.112
Then I went to Brazil for a year because I liked Brazilian music and I wanted to get to the source.

00:02:18.173 --> 00:02:20.155
And then I came back to Germany for a little bit.

00:02:20.215 --> 00:02:24.794
And then in 90 My wife and I, we finally immigrated to the States.

00:02:24.813 --> 00:02:26.925
So I've been here 31 years now.

00:02:27.713 --> 00:02:35.000
Great, yeah, so we'll get into your travels around, as you've just mentioned there, to Brazil and then back to the US, and we'll cover all that.

00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.223
But before we do that, let's start about your music career.

00:02:39.283 --> 00:02:42.606
I think you started off initially when you were younger playing some piano.

00:02:42.627 --> 00:02:43.668
Was that your first instrument?

00:02:43.967 --> 00:02:50.933
Well, as a kid, I had piano lessons, you know, the usual parent-forced piano lesson.

00:02:50.954 --> 00:02:54.377
I wasn't really into it, but I also didn't hate it, but it didn't last very long.

00:02:54.637 --> 00:02:57.599
I had that for a minute, but I never followed up on it.

00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.282
That means that we had a piano in our house.

00:03:00.862 --> 00:03:08.091
So when I finally got interested into music as an early teenager, there was at least a piano for me to fumble around on.

00:03:08.131 --> 00:03:12.175
But the first instrument that I actually was serious about was the vibraphone.

00:03:12.455 --> 00:03:16.060
Actually, before that, I played drums a little bit in the school band, just a little bit.

00:03:16.219 --> 00:03:20.063
But the first instrument that actually meant something to me was the vibraphone.

00:03:20.383 --> 00:03:24.348
Also because it is kind of right between the piano and the drums.

00:03:24.688 --> 00:03:25.810
It's a percussion instrument.

00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:27.491
You have sticks or mallets.

00:03:27.632 --> 00:03:28.492
But it's a keyboard.

00:03:28.552 --> 00:03:32.978
So that was the first instrument that I seriously practiced.

00:03:33.318 --> 00:03:35.381
And that came before the vibraphone.

00:03:35.441 --> 00:03:37.443
I started before the harmonica.

00:03:37.462 --> 00:03:39.284
I started on vice when I was 16.

00:03:39.865 --> 00:03:40.165
Great.

00:03:40.286 --> 00:03:43.930
And so this is Milt Jackson is the vibraphone player that I know.

00:03:44.050 --> 00:03:50.978
Well, actually, before Milt Jackson, there was Lionel Hampton, the swing vibraphone player that was actually a superstar in the 40s and 50s.

00:03:51.298 --> 00:03:59.685
Benny Goodman, Carnegie Hall, the whole connection, that was the first guy that I, that was actually a guy who triggered my interest in the vibraphone, Lionel Hampton.

00:03:59.844 --> 00:04:06.670
Later on, when I got more into, deeper into jazz, then Bill Jackson took over, but it started with Lionel Hampton.

00:04:06.991 --> 00:04:11.855
You then picked up the harmonica after that, as you say, so what got you into the harmonica?

00:04:11.876 --> 00:04:13.717
I think you heard Toots, didn't you?

00:04:14.038 --> 00:04:14.538
That's it.

00:04:14.617 --> 00:04:16.300
That's the one and only reason.

00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.242
I was never really into the harmonica before that.

00:04:19.281 --> 00:04:23.692
I was really a jazz fan, you know, sack saxophone, trumpet, you know, the classic jazz instrument.

00:04:23.752 --> 00:04:28.230
Then, I don't know how that happened, I heard toots and I said, wow, that's great.

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That was the reason.

00:04:41.535 --> 00:04:48.040
I went to the music store, I got a harmonica and I self-taught myself how to play the instrument.

00:04:48.081 --> 00:04:49.982
But the reason is I heard toots.

00:04:50.523 --> 00:04:55.247
So what about any similarities between the vibraphone and the chromatic harmonica?

00:04:55.747 --> 00:04:56.168
Zero.

00:04:57.488 --> 00:05:03.694
It's a question that I get all the time and the answer is I have no idea why it's the two instruments.

00:05:03.713 --> 00:05:05.975
There is no overlap in any kind.

00:05:06.115 --> 00:05:09.158
I just like both of them at different times and they stayed.

00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:34.865
I also like other instruments that i tried for a minute but they didn't survive but the vibes and harmonica they stayed and i you know i i went the path of investigating but harmonica still to this day is connected to tooths the he is the guy that i do like on harmonica he is his the language that he created the sound the sensitivity the whole thing that is what i like about the harmonica

00:05:35.026 --> 00:05:42.233
and so you mentioned there that you you moved to the us i think in 1977 to study at the uh the Berklee School of Music there, yeah.

00:05:42.293 --> 00:05:44.877
So did you do that on the vibes initially?

00:05:44.916 --> 00:05:45.478
Yes.

00:05:46.038 --> 00:05:52.285
Actually, one of the reasons I went there was back in the day, in the 70s, vibraphone is a percussion instrument.

00:05:52.464 --> 00:06:03.016
So you had to be a percussion major or a drums major, but you couldn't really be a vibraphone major anywhere in those days because, you know, either you were a classical percussionist or you were a jazz drummer.

00:06:03.076 --> 00:06:04.598
That kind of was the picture.

00:06:04.637 --> 00:06:07.420
But Berklee let me be a vibes major.

00:06:07.521 --> 00:06:09.923
So that was one of the reasons I started there.

00:06:09.944 --> 00:06:15.149
The harmonic I already played a little bit privately, but on harmonica, I'm completely self-taught.

00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:17.190
I never had a lesson or anything like that.

00:06:17.492 --> 00:06:18.492
It's all self-taught.

00:06:18.733 --> 00:06:21.355
My jazz education comes through the vibraphone.

00:06:21.615 --> 00:06:30.886
So, Greg, you're there at Berklee there, and you played some chromatic while you were there, so you never got it out in the college or anything like that.

00:06:31.387 --> 00:06:32.687
I played it at sessions.

00:06:32.788 --> 00:06:35.490
I tried it out, but of course it wasn't part of my education.

00:06:35.531 --> 00:06:39.295
It was my private hobby, so to speak, but I practiced it.

00:06:39.355 --> 00:06:41.740
Actually, I practiced Yeah, and...

00:06:55.394 --> 00:07:00.800
Around this time, did you see Toots performing in, well, either in Europe or the US?

00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:02.922
Yeah, I went to New York and I saw him.

00:07:03.783 --> 00:07:04.663
I went to his gigs.

00:07:05.064 --> 00:07:08.887
Not too many because it was still, I was in Boston and the gigs were usually in New York.

00:07:08.968 --> 00:07:10.670
I saw him maybe a couple of times.

00:07:10.769 --> 00:07:12.732
I went up to him, said hi, maybe.

00:07:13.271 --> 00:07:16.735
I was very, almost afraid of the guy because he was such a legend.

00:07:16.956 --> 00:07:20.680
You did do a Toots tribute concert in 2017 in Uruguay.

00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:22.781
I've got a...

00:07:32.898 --> 00:07:34.720
Yeah, well, Toots had just died that summer.

00:07:35.019 --> 00:07:42.225
I think he died somewhere in the summer of 2016, and they asked me for Uruguay to do a tribute to him, which I did.

00:07:42.386 --> 00:07:48.591
They got Brazilian musicians, which is very good for me because Brazilian jazz is a big part of what I do.

00:07:48.932 --> 00:07:51.314
Yeah, of course, Toots did the Brazil album, didn't he?

00:07:51.713 --> 00:07:55.877
Yes, Toots did two albums, actually, the Brazil project, two editions of that.

00:07:56.017 --> 00:08:03.425
But the real news here is, or the real important fact, is that harmonica works really well in Brazilian music.

00:08:03.605 --> 00:08:05.367
It has its problems in jazz.

00:08:05.447 --> 00:08:07.468
It's not really a jazz instrument.

00:08:07.509 --> 00:08:14.576
You can make it happen like Toots if you modify the music to the needs of the harmonica, but it's not really a classic jazz instrument.

00:08:14.617 --> 00:08:17.098
That problem does not exist in Brazilian music.

00:08:17.278 --> 00:08:18.800
It's perfect for Brazilian music.

00:08:18.880 --> 00:08:21.704
It's melancholy, it's beautiful, it's romantic.

00:08:21.863 --> 00:08:32.375
Toots, of course, did those two albums, but he also participated before that in lots of other projects where he played, you know, in the background or played a little solo here and there connected to Brazilian music.

00:08:32.416 --> 00:08:35.763
So, That's another discovery that Toots made.

00:08:36.203 --> 00:08:37.125
He found that.

00:08:37.527 --> 00:08:40.533
He found everything that has to do with jazz and the harmonica.

00:08:40.833 --> 00:08:44.743
There were other guys, but he was the one who discovered what sounds good and what doesn't.

00:08:44.783 --> 00:08:46.206
So was it...

00:08:46.306 --> 00:08:52.311
hearing Toots play Brazilian music that turned you on to that on the chromatic, or did you already like the Brazilian music before then?

00:08:52.591 --> 00:08:57.255
Well, Brazilian music started for me kind of the same time that jazz has started.

00:08:57.475 --> 00:09:04.282
I was living in Hamburg with my parents, a teenager, and they had maybe two jazz albums in their record collection.

00:09:04.361 --> 00:09:09.466
One was Penny Goodman at Carnegie Hall, and the other one was Astro Gilberto singing Bossa Nova.

00:09:09.586 --> 00:09:16.993
And I heard those two, and my interest was starting in both of these fields at the same time, kind a parallel.

00:09:17.013 --> 00:09:18.254
Toots came later.

00:09:18.274 --> 00:09:21.837
The Toots connection and the harmonica connection with Brazilian music came later.

00:09:21.898 --> 00:09:25.361
I actually didn't hear much harmonica in Brazilian music until later.

00:09:25.422 --> 00:09:26.722
So this is independent.

00:09:26.863 --> 00:09:32.548
You actually, I believe, recorded a live radio show and broadcast in Germany with Toots.

00:09:32.950 --> 00:09:35.472
Yes, that was even before I moved to the States.

00:09:35.513 --> 00:09:37.855
That must have been 92 or something.

00:09:37.875 --> 00:09:43.541
In Germany, back in the day, they still have some, but back in the day, they had all these great radio big bands.

00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.224
Every major city had a radio big band.

00:09:46.224 --> 00:10:07.647
big band funded by the government and they needed projects so Toots was a frequent guest and on one of these shows in Berlin Toots was the guest and I was the guest so we played together and I got to meet him again so that was great that was before I even came to America actually I would love to hear that recording I have no idea where that is that must be in some file somewhere but that would be definitely something interesting to hear

00:10:08.227 --> 00:10:15.034
great and then finally on Toots you also appeared at the Toots 100 birthday celebrations in Brussels in 2022 yes Toots

00:10:15.534 --> 00:10:17.476
is is a hero in Belgium.

00:10:17.537 --> 00:10:19.178
He is actually, I think they knighted him.

00:10:19.219 --> 00:10:21.181
He's a baron and he's a national hero.

00:10:21.221 --> 00:10:22.682
You know, he's the pride of Belgium.

00:10:23.203 --> 00:10:38.820
And last year they had a whole bunch of events for his centennial and lots of stuff that I had nothing to do with, but I was part in one of them, which is that the WDR big band from Cologne, one of those great radio big bands, they did a show there with me on Ringtooth.

00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.043
Yeah, that was in July last year.

00:10:41.263 --> 00:10:45.407
So you mentioned obviously there that you went to the US in 77.

00:10:45.547 --> 00:10:46.589
Are you there for three years.

00:10:47.109 --> 00:10:49.392
Did you then go back to Germany to live for a while?

00:10:49.932 --> 00:10:52.335
Yes, I went back to Germany for two years.

00:10:52.375 --> 00:10:53.797
Then I went to Brazil for a year.

00:10:53.836 --> 00:10:57.701
Then I went back to Germany for maybe eight years, something like that.

00:10:57.801 --> 00:11:00.464
And then I finally came to America for good.

00:11:01.225 --> 00:11:09.053
And then during this time in Germany, you were, you know, you were, you know, you were working, you know, sessions and you was playing, you know, the jazz scene in there in Europe.

00:11:09.134 --> 00:11:09.374
Yeah.

00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:15.794
Yes, I was a musician back in those days, living, playing, living the dream, playing jazz in Europe.

00:11:16.216 --> 00:11:21.580
I was part of a swing band that played lots of gigs and I did all the freelance stuff.

00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:25.984
Back in those days, there was also still a lot of studio recordings.

00:11:26.264 --> 00:11:32.168
That changed after the synthesizers took over, but early on there, there was lots to do on the harmonica.

00:11:32.429 --> 00:11:45.663
They still needed a harmonica in commercials and film music and all that until the synthesizers took part of that away, but Yes, I was a musician doing touring and concerts and radio shows, recordings, all the good stuff.

00:11:45.962 --> 00:11:48.706
And did you play some big band stuff there as well during that time?

00:11:48.826 --> 00:11:51.830
Yes, I played with several of these great European big bands.

00:11:51.971 --> 00:11:56.275
Danish big band, then they have two in Berlin, Hamburg.

00:11:56.836 --> 00:11:59.960
These big bands back in the day, they always needed projects.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:05.346
You know, they invite a singer or they invite a saxophone player or somebody and they do a show and a radio thing.

00:12:05.386 --> 00:12:07.789
They had the budget, government funded.

00:12:08.418 --> 00:12:13.899
So I was a frequent guest, not frequent, but I was a guest once in a while in these great projects.

00:12:14.522 --> 00:12:15.325
That was a good thing.

00:12:15.809 --> 00:12:16.591
Yeah, it must be great.

00:12:16.630 --> 00:12:20.673
What's it like playing the small, humble harmonica in a big band?

00:12:21.215 --> 00:12:25.899
Well, if you play harmonica in a big band, you play it not in a big band, you play it in front of a big band.

00:12:25.918 --> 00:12:27.799
You are not really part of the orchestra.

00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:28.701
You are the solos.

00:12:28.760 --> 00:12:29.522
It's like a singer.

00:12:29.621 --> 00:12:35.787
You are the featured soloist that plays a solo and the melody, and then the big band is roaring behind you.

00:12:35.846 --> 00:12:39.711
It's not really that there's something written for the big band with you included.

00:12:39.770 --> 00:12:42.533
I mean, that's possible, but usually you are the solos.

00:12:42.653 --> 00:12:44.794
But it is a great thing.

00:12:44.815 --> 00:12:45.775
It's very inspiring, obviously.

00:12:45.775 --> 00:12:46.076
Yeah,

00:12:46.417 --> 00:12:49.081
it must be great on that wall of sound behind you.

00:12:49.222 --> 00:12:52.850
Are you generally just playing kind of solos and improvising in that setting then?

00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:53.770
I would say so.

00:12:53.811 --> 00:12:54.852
Melodies and solos.

00:12:55.153 --> 00:12:57.077
Look at it as if I were a singer.

00:12:57.177 --> 00:12:58.921
You know, you are the featured melody guy.

00:12:58.961 --> 00:12:59.863
You take your solo.

00:13:00.144 --> 00:13:01.245
That is kind of what it is.

00:13:01.787 --> 00:13:05.033
And that's great because that's what the harmonica does best.

00:13:22.498 --> 00:13:30.688
So now you're still, when you're recording, you're still, you're playing the vibes and the chromatic often on your recordings, yeah, probably more chromatic, but definitely the vibes is still on there, yeah?

00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:33.293
I play the vibes, it depends on the project.

00:13:33.572 --> 00:13:40.623
Actually, next week there's a project, there's a gentleman coming from Hong Kong who's recording a project and he wants both, so I will play both.

00:13:41.323 --> 00:13:42.404
It just seems to...

00:13:43.042 --> 00:13:50.273
happened that I get more calls for harmonica because I think I'm more known for that, which is, I don't know why.

00:13:50.332 --> 00:13:57.744
I mean, it might also be a consequence of me not having a car in New York City, so I don't really bring the vibes to all of my gigs.

00:13:58.245 --> 00:13:58.725
It's hard.

00:13:59.365 --> 00:14:08.740
So you play more harmonica, and that means I'm more confident about harmonica, and that means I play and record more harmonica, and that means people call me for more harmonica, but I do play vibes.

00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:24.881
But it seems like the harmonica kind of is what people know me for.

00:14:25.261 --> 00:14:30.628
Yeah, so let's get on then into your, you know, your Brazil connections, as you've mentioned already.

00:14:30.687 --> 00:14:41.118
So you play a lot of samba and bossa nova, you know, so you got into that, you moved to Brazil in 1982 and you still, you know, so you could immerse yourself in the music, yeah?

00:14:41.442 --> 00:14:42.523
Yes, exactly.

00:14:42.942 --> 00:14:45.384
Well, I play what is known as samba jazz.

00:14:45.424 --> 00:14:49.428
I don't really play the original, authentic Brazilian music.

00:14:49.609 --> 00:14:53.633
I take the music and I make my own something out of it.

00:14:53.712 --> 00:14:55.634
It's what people call samba jazz.

00:14:55.714 --> 00:14:57.076
It's the instrumental version.

00:14:57.115 --> 00:14:58.596
It's a style, actually.

00:14:58.856 --> 00:15:00.658
I wouldn't say that I just play bossa nova.

00:15:00.698 --> 00:15:03.801
If you think about bossa nova, you probably need a singer.

00:15:03.841 --> 00:15:08.865
You know, the classic Brazilian music always evolves around singers because the songs are written for them.

00:15:09.105 --> 00:15:10.006
But that's not what I do.

00:15:10.067 --> 00:15:11.327
I do the instrumental version.

00:15:11.408 --> 00:15:13.474
So that is what we call Samba Jazz.

00:15:13.894 --> 00:15:14.957
But that's what I do.

00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:15.941
That's one of my projects.

00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:20.394
Not the only one, but a strong thing of what I'm doing.

00:15:34.594 --> 00:15:37.467
Yeah, and like you say, the harmonica works so well in that setting.

00:15:37.708 --> 00:15:41.206
Well, certainly in Brazil, do you usually have people dancing while you're playing?

00:15:41.245 --> 00:15:41.928
Is that a feature?

00:15:42.337 --> 00:15:43.318
No, not really.

00:15:43.538 --> 00:15:53.488
I mean, it might happen for once in a while, but it's really, if you do samba jazz, you know, the minute there's the word jazz in it, you get a different kind of audience, you know, you get people that listen.

00:15:53.847 --> 00:15:54.028
Yeah.

00:15:54.489 --> 00:15:58.731
So I've touched a little bit on previous episodes about Brazilian harmonica players.

00:15:58.792 --> 00:16:02.375
So, but there's definitely a tradition, isn't there, of Brazilian harmonica players?

00:16:02.475 --> 00:16:05.979
Yes, that is actually quite surprising for me.

00:16:06.038 --> 00:16:09.642
Brazil has a very strong tradition of harmonica players.

00:16:09.682 --> 00:16:16.035
There are young guys now, but before that, there was the great, and there still is, the great Mauricio Einhorn.

00:16:26.881 --> 00:16:36.994
And Ido da Gaita and Ido Horta, they are classic Brazilian harmonica players, some of them more jazz, some of them more Brazilian.

00:16:37.413 --> 00:16:40.878
And then now there's a new generation of great players.

00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:46.004
I don't know why that is, but Brazil always had a lot of harmonica in its culture.

00:16:46.083 --> 00:16:49.488
I don't really know why it could be the German immigrants in the south.

00:16:49.607 --> 00:16:51.049
I don't really know how that happened.

00:16:51.330 --> 00:16:59.649
Yeah, and they've got their own, you know, they're playing Brazilian music, they're not playing blues, for example, which is obviously what the harmonica's taken to in many other countries by blues, isn't it?

00:17:00.030 --> 00:17:01.674
Yeah, that's true.

00:17:01.916 --> 00:17:04.101
The harmonica, the chromatic especially...

00:17:04.769 --> 00:17:08.894
especially the chromatic, seems to go well with certain Brazilian styles.

00:17:09.334 --> 00:17:12.856
And, I mean, there's always the explanation of money, you know.

00:17:13.758 --> 00:17:17.221
If you want to get a vibraphone, you've got to put a few thousand dollars on the table.

00:17:17.800 --> 00:17:20.784
And if they even have a vibraphone in the country we live in.

00:17:20.864 --> 00:17:25.288
But a harmonica is cheap, you know, compared to other instruments.

00:17:25.327 --> 00:17:26.749
So there's that thing too.

00:17:26.929 --> 00:17:31.673
It might be something that was easy to get so people had a better chance to get it.

00:17:31.752 --> 00:17:32.074
I don't know.

00:17:32.453 --> 00:17:38.140
I never asked or found not why brazil has so many harmonica players but it definitely does

00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:47.569
so what happened in your decision to go to brazil you know very envious of this end you just think right i'm just going to go and move to brazil and play harmonica over there you know how did that go

00:17:47.609 --> 00:18:36.373
exactly like that i always believe that if you want to learn a music style you got to go to the culture that produced it i think if somebody wants to play classical music they should spend years in germany that doesn't matter if it's 200 years after the event it's about the culture the food the language the way people talk to each other the weather especially the language because the language kind of makes for the rhythm of the music so i could learn brazilian music at home but i thought it was much better to go to live there and also you have to remember this was all pre-computer pre-internet pre-youtube pre-anything the best you could hope for was getting a record You know, these days you can stay at home and go on YouTube and learn about anything at home without ever leaving your apartment.

00:18:36.413 --> 00:18:37.535
You know, there are sources.

00:18:37.996 --> 00:18:39.397
That wasn't the case back then.

00:18:39.417 --> 00:18:44.866
So going to Brazil was, I mean, it was kind of a clear path that I had to do.

00:18:45.288 --> 00:18:45.488
Yeah.

00:18:45.989 --> 00:18:51.798
And so I believe you went to a sort of a regular Monday night gig you had there in a club in Rio.

00:18:51.898 --> 00:18:53.520
And that's what got you into the scene, is it?

00:18:53.601 --> 00:18:56.246
And you were well accepted, were you, by the Brazilian musicians?

00:18:56.609 --> 00:19:02.914
Yeah, I had a Monday night gig with some of the great samba jazz musicians there and they liked it and that was that.

00:19:03.316 --> 00:19:12.943
Back in those days, I didn't speak much or maybe even any Portuguese, which was not great because back in those days, a lot of Brazilian musicians didn't even speak English.

00:19:13.003 --> 00:19:13.924
You know, that changed.

00:19:14.224 --> 00:19:18.868
The world was becoming closer and back in those days, not a lot of people spoke English.

00:19:18.909 --> 00:19:21.171
So I was, yeah, it was interesting.

00:19:21.811 --> 00:19:27.297
You know, a gringo in Brazil playing their music but not being able to communicate gave much.

00:19:28.498 --> 00:19:30.059
Yeah, really tough, yeah.

00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:30.359
Great.

00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:37.347
And then, yeah, so as you said, then you went back to Germany and got here that you won in 1983 when you went back to Germany.

00:19:37.367 --> 00:19:40.590
You won the first prize of the German Phono Academy for Jazz.

00:19:40.851 --> 00:19:41.932
Yeah, that was a competition.

00:19:41.991 --> 00:19:49.760
It's so long ago I don't even remember much what the details were, but they had an annual jazz competition and that particular year I actually did win, yes.

00:19:50.201 --> 00:19:53.684
All this stuff helps you, gets your name on the map and, you know, help your career.

00:19:53.744 --> 00:19:54.546
Of course, yes.

00:19:55.046 --> 00:19:55.267
Yeah, great.

00:19:55.287 --> 00:19:56.528
And that was on Harmonica, wasn't it?

00:19:56.528 --> 00:19:56.788
was it?

00:19:57.148 --> 00:19:58.790
That was only harmonica, yeah.

00:19:59.172 --> 00:20:04.038
So let's now get into your extensive recording catalogue.

00:20:04.098 --> 00:20:09.928
So I believe you've got 26 albums in your own name, so a great body of work you've done there.

00:20:10.248 --> 00:20:12.652
Yes, I did, and I still do.

00:20:12.731 --> 00:20:14.734
It's just something that I'm comfortable doing.

00:20:14.775 --> 00:20:21.585
I really like to record albums, you know, think about the material, make sure it sounds good, do the recording, mix it and all that.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:20:36.705 --> 00:20:41.911
We are in a little bit in a problematic situation with the event of streaming.

00:20:42.351 --> 00:20:47.575
Back in the day, an album was like the normal way you would get your music out.

00:20:47.615 --> 00:20:51.598
You know, either an LP or in my days, I started in the age of the CD.

00:20:51.638 --> 00:20:56.063
So you would do a CD and people would buy it or not, and it would be played on the radio.

00:20:56.182 --> 00:20:57.023
And that was it.

00:20:57.384 --> 00:20:59.065
These days, you can do other things.

00:20:59.125 --> 00:21:04.450
You can record a song and record that one song and release it as a song.

00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:07.593
That wasn't possible decades ago.

00:21:07.613 --> 00:21:12.178
So for me, doing an album was always the standard way of producing something.

00:21:12.238 --> 00:21:13.298
I just like to do it.

00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:18.944
Also, another thing is that the harmonica in the studio, you can get much better results than live.

00:21:18.984 --> 00:21:28.855
Live, you depend on the sound system, on the grace of the sound engineer, if he understands what you want or not, and then if your rhythm section is very loud or not.

00:21:29.236 --> 00:21:31.739
Harmonica can sound pretty bad live.

00:21:32.058 --> 00:21:34.942
You can never destroy a vibraphone or saxophone.

00:21:34.961 --> 00:21:39.086
They always sound good because they have a sound, a strong sound on its own.

00:21:39.326 --> 00:21:40.488
But harmonica needs help.

00:21:40.667 --> 00:21:43.911
Harmonica needs a good microphone, a good sound system, some reverb.

00:21:43.971 --> 00:21:46.875
Other than that, it sounds just like a squeak box.

00:21:47.015 --> 00:21:49.196
In the studio, I have control over that.

00:21:49.217 --> 00:21:52.599
So in the studio, I can make the thing sound really nice.

00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.022
That's another reason why I always like to record.

00:21:55.083 --> 00:21:58.546
So I'll just pick out some of the albums that I've been going through.

00:21:58.567 --> 00:22:05.493
I probably can't get through all 26, but the first album you had out, I believe, was in 1989, was Samba...

00:22:05.986 --> 00:22:06.946
importado

00:22:07.406 --> 00:22:11.330
yeah that one i actually recorded in brazil i went to brazil to record it there yes

00:22:11.770 --> 00:22:17.215
obviously you'd been there previously what some some seven years before is that the first time you went back specifically to record this album

00:22:17.556 --> 00:22:18.616
yes i think so

00:22:18.817 --> 00:22:25.482
i mean already on this first one you've got songs that you composed yourself yeah so it's something that you've always done you compose your own songs

00:22:25.982 --> 00:22:39.935
i sometimes think i consider myself more a composer than a player that seems surprising for a Everything I do, there are my own songs on it, not exclusively, but they're always there.

00:22:39.976 --> 00:22:43.019
It's just something that I do naturally.

00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:48.905
And yes, and of course, the first Brazilian album was to finally get my Brazilian songs recorded.

00:22:49.185 --> 00:22:53.351
And another song off this first album, which is an interesting title, is Space Burger.

00:23:03.501 --> 00:23:03.741
Space Burger

00:23:06.273 --> 00:23:07.195
That's one of my tunes.

00:23:07.215 --> 00:23:09.561
I don't even know why I came up with this name.

00:23:09.883 --> 00:23:11.185
That must be my German humor.

00:23:11.246 --> 00:23:13.171
But that is, yeah, that's one of my tunes.

00:23:13.372 --> 00:23:16.259
I re-recorded that later here in New York again.

00:23:16.298 --> 00:23:20.608
Don't even know why that name, but yep, that's the name.

00:23:20.930 --> 00:23:21.349
Good name.

00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:23.271
Well, it certainly stood out to me.

00:23:23.332 --> 00:23:25.034
So it had the right effect.

00:23:25.493 --> 00:23:32.880
So and then in 1991, I believe, you signed with Concord Records during a trip to California.

00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:36.864
So this was pretty early in your recording sort of career.

00:23:36.884 --> 00:23:38.846
I think you'd only had the one album before then, had you?

00:23:38.885 --> 00:23:40.047
So how did this come about?

00:23:40.366 --> 00:23:44.730
Well, my wife, my Brazilian wife, we were living in Berlin at the time.

00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:50.336
My Brazilian wife went to San Francisco to do a language course because she needed to learn English.

00:23:50.415 --> 00:23:54.660
So she lived for three years in San Francisco in the summer doing that course there.

00:23:54.740 --> 00:24:00.066
And I visited her and while she was in the school in the daytime, I was just looking at stuff.

00:24:00.086 --> 00:24:04.230
And then I saw the subway map and then I saw, oh, there's a stop called Concord.

00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:08.634
That's interesting because there's also a label called Concord, a jazz label.

00:24:08.674 --> 00:24:14.740
And then I found out that actually Concord Records is in Concord, California named after the town.

00:24:15.122 --> 00:24:23.250
So I called up the record label and said, I came especially from Germany to meet you guys because I want to present you a project.

00:24:23.391 --> 00:24:24.070
So there we go.

00:24:24.111 --> 00:24:29.817
That was my early toughness as an ambitious guy.

00:24:29.877 --> 00:24:35.523
So I got a meeting with the record company and I played that first album that I read for them.

00:24:36.044 --> 00:24:40.308
And they liked and said, well, if I have something else, can I present it to you?

00:24:40.328 --> 00:24:41.269
I said, of course.

00:24:41.369 --> 00:24:47.236
And then a year later or at some point later, shortly after that, I did have another production that I produced myself.

00:24:47.355 --> 00:24:49.398
I sent it to them and they took it on.

00:24:49.439 --> 00:24:50.799
And that's how that happened.

00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:51.425
Great.

00:24:51.445 --> 00:24:53.890
And this album was the Samba Here.

00:25:06.145 --> 00:25:08.790
That was Samba Hier with Paquito de Avea and Claudio Dittia.

00:25:08.851 --> 00:25:11.596
That was recorded in Europe during a tour.

00:25:11.655 --> 00:25:15.242
They were in Europe with the Dizzy Gillespie United Nations Orchestra.

00:25:15.383 --> 00:25:18.509
I was in Europe with my Brazilian rhythm section that I had there.

00:25:18.628 --> 00:25:20.392
And then we met and recorded the album.

00:25:20.893 --> 00:25:21.694
I sent it to them.

00:25:21.734 --> 00:25:23.557
And then I remember that very well.

00:25:23.637 --> 00:25:25.481
Those were the days of the fax machine.

00:25:25.826 --> 00:25:32.153
One day I go to my bedroom and there was the fax hanging out of the machine offering me a record deal and there was that.

00:25:32.673 --> 00:25:36.877
And Paquito de Rivera there, as you mentioned, he's a saxophone player, yeah?

00:25:37.398 --> 00:25:50.854
Yes, he's a superstar, plays alto saxophone and clarinet and Claudio Ditti, he passed away already, he was a trumpet player and he was kind of the father of samba jazz, the most respected practitioner of samba jazz here in New York, Brazilian guy.

00:25:51.233 --> 00:25:52.095
Yeah, fantastic.

00:25:52.115 --> 00:25:52.275
Yeah.

00:25:52.694 --> 00:25:56.598
So Concord were a pretty prestigious jazz label, yeah?

00:25:57.058 --> 00:25:57.338
Oh, yeah.

00:25:57.398 --> 00:25:58.961
Back in the day, I mean, they still are.

00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:04.424
But back in the day, they were definitely one of the major, major, non-major labels.

00:26:04.865 --> 00:26:09.190
The way the records industry was set up is there were a handful of major labels.

00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:11.652
I don't know, Warner Brothers, Sony, whatever, one of these.

00:26:12.311 --> 00:26:16.675
And they, of course, had a whole budget and they had hundreds of people working for them.

00:26:16.756 --> 00:26:17.757
So that was that.

00:26:17.856 --> 00:26:38.936
But except for those handful of major labels, there were a lot of smaller independent labels and a lot of jazz labels were smaller independent labels and Concord was like the top of the line from those so getting signed with Concord was a major deal it really put me on the map and also got me into the country Because I told them, well, now we have a recording contract.

00:26:39.317 --> 00:26:43.166
If we want to promote our albums, you should let me come to America.

00:26:43.207 --> 00:26:44.750
So you got to get me a visa.

00:26:45.172 --> 00:26:48.519
So they arranged for an artist visa for Concord Records.

00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:49.923
That's how I moved to America.

00:26:49.942 --> 00:26:54.393
And then the visa became a green card and the green card became the citizenship.

00:26:54.817 --> 00:26:55.599
Yeah, fantastic.

00:26:55.660 --> 00:27:00.148
And then, so yeah, so then you moved to New York in 1992 on the back of this.

00:27:00.250 --> 00:27:02.894
So New York is a jazz heaven.

00:27:02.935 --> 00:27:03.175
Yeah.

00:27:03.256 --> 00:27:04.538
So that's why you went there.

00:27:04.598 --> 00:27:07.806
So, you know, what was it like being, breaking onto the New York jazz scene?

00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:10.152
New York is New York.

00:27:10.271 --> 00:27:14.295
If you're interested in jazz or if jazz means something to you, there's nothing like it.

00:27:14.895 --> 00:27:24.324
Even these days, 2023, after the pandemic, when the whole world is complaining about how everything is different, New York is just bubbling with jazz clubs.

00:27:24.403 --> 00:27:26.766
I don't know how many we have, 30, 40.

00:27:26.986 --> 00:27:27.307
I don't know.

00:27:27.326 --> 00:27:27.807
I have no idea.

00:27:28.146 --> 00:27:31.569
Yes, jazz and New York, they are connected.

00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:40.778
And one of the reasons is, I mean, first of all, it's a lot of stuff created here and it is one of the homes of jazz, but it's also something that tourists do.

00:27:40.878 --> 00:27:49.528
You know, if tourists come here, they go to see the Empire State Building and they go see a Broadway show and a few museums and the Statue of Liberty and they go to a jazz club.

00:27:49.827 --> 00:27:52.351
And that means the tickets are being sold.

00:27:52.570 --> 00:27:56.234
So these jazz clubs are all in good shape because there is actually an audience.

00:27:56.275 --> 00:27:58.698
You know, it's not like a year of government subsidized.

00:27:58.718 --> 00:27:59.357
They don't need that.

00:28:00.199 --> 00:28:03.522
So you have played at the Blue Note Club, the famous jazz club in New York?

00:28:03.962 --> 00:28:04.523
Yes, I have.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:28:09.730 --> 00:28:22.553
you know what's it like when you first went i mean is it you know here it's very competitive and you know was it was it tough trying to break onto the scene there or well

00:28:22.933 --> 00:28:33.924
it's still tough i mean it never ends You have to fit in, you have to speak the New York language, you know, how people interact and how they react to your personality and this and this.

00:28:33.984 --> 00:28:36.948
It's a very tough city in a good way.

00:28:37.307 --> 00:28:40.070
Everything here is built on respect and on results.

00:28:40.570 --> 00:28:47.457
You know, you have to be good or great in what you do and you have to also be sociable and professional in what you do.

00:28:47.477 --> 00:28:53.602
You cannot have an attitude or be a prima donna or be difficult because then they just call somebody else.

00:28:53.823 --> 00:28:57.665
Because on each instrument and For each profession, people have choices here.

00:28:57.786 --> 00:28:58.606
That makes it tough.

00:28:58.846 --> 00:29:03.211
You want to be great and you want to be the one that they think about.

00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:08.154
So you also have to be out there a lot and have to be part of the scene so that people don't forget you.

00:29:08.515 --> 00:29:09.997
It's tough, but it's great.

00:29:11.038 --> 00:29:11.557
Good timing.

00:29:11.597 --> 00:29:13.960
We can hear that New York siren going off in the background.

00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:17.383
That's very atmospheric.

00:29:17.403 --> 00:29:24.509
So then your next album in 92, I think when you were in New York at this point, it was Clear of Clouds.

00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:27.773

Hendrik Meurkens interview

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