Sept. 1, 2022

Cheryl Arena interview

Cheryl Arena interview

Cheryl Arena joins me on episode 68. Cheryl is a blues player and singer from the Boston area. She integrated herself into the local music scene there by setting up a jam session near Berklee college, drawing in the great musicians from there. And then set-up another residency with guest musicians joining the house band. Her deep love for the music has taken Cheryl far and wide, and gave her the opportunity to meet and play with some of her harmonica idols, including Junior Wells. This led to...

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Season 1 Diatonic Harmonica Blues Harmonica Female Harmonica Player

Cheryl Arena joins me on episode 68.

Cheryl is a blues player and singer from the Boston area. She integrated herself into the local music scene there by setting up a jam session near Berklee college, drawing in the great musicians from there. And then set-up another residency with guest musicians joining the house band. Her deep love for the music has taken Cheryl far and wide, and gave her the opportunity to meet and play with some of her harmonica idols, including Junior Wells. This led to her appearing in two blues documentaries: one about Maxwell Street and another about James Cotton. 

Cheryl now runs The Harmonica Experience camp twice a year in the home of the blues, Clarkesdale, Mississippi, where she uses her mouth-on (the harmonica) approach. 


Links:

Cheryl's website:
https://cherylarena.com/

Gigs:
https://cherylarena.com/gigs/

Harmonica Experience teaching camp:
https://www.theharmonicaexperience.com/


Videos:

Sonny Junior playing with Sugar Ray:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rld1Q4umqp0

With Big Band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7qUXseHLzg&list=PL2B3mUb87_ARcAhCRAUoxKSAy6CEQwI2C&index=19

The ‘Harmonica Experience’ overview, with Charlie Musselwhite:
https://youtu.be/2gBS3welRZY

Blog on ‘The Harmonica Experience’:
https://www.karenpulferfocht.com/blog/2022/8/3/the-harmonica-experience

Greasy Gravy on chromatic:
https://www.facebook.com/david.m.rosen/videos/593960639065696/

Stormy Weather:
https://www.facebook.com/david.m.rosen/videos/790562382263078/

Big Road in duo  with Sonny Collie:
https://youtu.be/pbzS5jwjtps

Off The Wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJtvRhhbv8&list=PL2B3mUb87_ARcAhCRAUoxKSAy6CEQwI2C&index=5


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

01:24 - Cheryl is based near Boston, in the US

02:31 - Cheryl wanted to be a drummer but parents got her accordion lessons

03:03 - Bought first harmonica age 15

03:20 - Had heard James Cotton play on his visits to Boston

03:51 - Had some lessons with Sonny Junior

04:47 - Didn’t know about the different keys when started playing

05:05 - Played guitar and bass for several years and put down the harp for 15 years

05:56 - Took up harp again aged 30 and it became her main instrument

07:17 - Took up singing after re-started on harmonica

07:52 - Took a job driving a limousine so could practise harp while waiting around

08:18 - Used the pandemic to practise playing harp on a rack with guitar

09:03 - Ambitions to play rack harp with drums

09:21 - Teaches band ensemble playing in hometown

10:37 - Started a jam session near Berklee College, and started singing there

11:39 - Had to sing to get gigs as not many bands want only a harmonica player

12:20 - How to develop your singing

13:09 - Listened to a lot of music to develop playing

14:09 - Worked on emulating different instruments (especially horns), not just harmonica

15:20 - Harmonica influences

16:44 - Taking up harp at a slightly older age, and Cheryl’s teaching of adults

17:52 - Jam Cheryl ran near Berklee School of Music is where she met her band and started gigging regularly

19:04 - Hosted a separate event for guest musicians a few years later, meeting a lot of great players

20:44 - Became a full-time musician in 1991, and travels to the South of the US where the blues began

22:19 - Met Junior Wells as a result of attending a Save Maxwell Street protest, and appeared in a movie and played on Maxwell Street

24:29 - Appeared in a movie about James Cotton, coming out soon

25:29 - Played a gig as part of the movie and Cheryl played a gig with James Cotton’s band

26:17 - Released ‘Blues Got Me’ album in 2003

27:29 - Cheryl approach to songwriting

29:54 - Also protested about tearing down recording studio where Robert Johnson recorded

30:59 - Recorded a harmonica version of a horn instrumental

32:27 - Played with a big band while living in Texas

33:48 - Played in a church band in Dallas, as well as other musical adventures there 1.29

34:41 - Likes to sing jazz songs

35:32 - Parents weren’t supportive of Cheryl in her music

35:47 - Plays a version of Stormy Weather, taken from a Jerry Portnoy album

36:21 - Doesn’t play overblows

36:37 - Acoustic playing

37:10 - Started playing in a duo recently and plans to play some guitar, use a rack

37:37 - What’s it like being a woman in male dominated music scene and encouragement for more women to take up harp

38:48 - Why more men play musical instruments

39:19 - Cheryl runs The Harmonica Experience harmonica camp twice a year at Clarkesdale, the home of the blues

40:08 - Played at The King Biscuit festival and meeting Pinetop Perkins and others

42:36 - Cheryl took over running the camps from Jon Gindick

43:33 - Lots of jamming in a ‘mouths-on’ operation

44:18 - Harmonica is focus of the camp, although other instruments are covered

44:59 - Charlie Musselwhite came to the Harmonica Experience camp

45:45 - Cheryl loves to teach

46:29 - Mississippi vibe of the camp

46:58 - Diversity of blues music

47:34 - Was a dancer before a musician

47:47 - Fan of Howling Wolf and his groove

48:32 - Jason Ricci took Cheryl to a Juke Joint

50:15 - House of Blues was near where Cheryl grew up, and meeting lots of musicians there, including RL Burnside

51:54 - 10 minute question

52:48 - Cheryl is a Hohner endorsee

53:04 - Plays Hohner Super 64 chromatic

53:14 - Doesn’t really use different tunings

53:25 - Mainly plays 2nd and 3rd and 1st position

53:58 - Embouchre

54:26 - Amp

55:29 - Mics

55:42 - Doesn’t use any effects

55:44 - Future plans

WEBVTT

00:00:01.953 --> 00:00:03.959
Cheryl Lorena joins me in episode 68.

00:00:04.741 --> 00:00:07.248
Cheryl is a blues player and singer from the Boston area.

00:00:07.871 --> 00:00:15.653
She integrated herself into the local music scene there by setting up a jam session near Berkeley College, drawing in the great musicians from there.

00:00:16.033 --> 00:00:19.958
and then set up another residency with guest musicians joining the house band.

00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:28.952
Her deep love for the music has taken Cheryl far and wide and gave her the opportunity to meet and play with some of her harmonica idols, including Junior Wells.

00:00:29.611 --> 00:00:35.320
This has led to her appearing in two blues documentaries, one about Maxwell Street and another about James Cotton.

00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:45.414
Cheryl now runs the Harmonica Experience Camp twice a year in the home of the blues, Clarksdale, Mississippi, where she uses her mouth on the harmonica.

00:00:45.665 --> 00:00:46.286
approach.

00:00:48.049 --> 00:00:50.613
This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas.

00:00:51.033 --> 00:01:00.067
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

00:01:06.358 --> 00:01:06.397
So

00:01:23.170 --> 00:01:25.295
Hello Cheryl Arena and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:25.635 --> 00:01:26.278
Hello Neil.

00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:29.605
You are based in, I think, Arlington near Boston.

00:01:29.766 --> 00:01:32.534
Yes, a stone's throw from Boston, very close.

00:01:33.094 --> 00:01:35.662
And so what's the music scene like around Boston?

00:01:36.097 --> 00:01:39.340
Well, it's getting better again since the pandemic.

00:01:39.661 --> 00:01:44.064
You know, a lot of places closed, I mean, for good because of the pandemic.

00:01:44.504 --> 00:01:51.411
So there's less places to play, but then new places are opening up and it's not as good as it was, but it's getting back.

00:01:51.731 --> 00:01:55.715
Yeah, we thought we were getting back and then we have, now we have this huge recession looming, don't we?

00:01:55.734 --> 00:01:56.275
But nevermind.

00:01:56.575 --> 00:01:59.858
I was reading something about how music can bring people together.

00:01:59.918 --> 00:02:03.602
So maybe if we have some hard times that might even help the music, eh?

00:02:04.201 --> 00:02:04.923
Oh, definitely.

00:02:05.322 --> 00:02:06.063
Some more blues

00:02:06.063 --> 00:02:08.486
Music is everything for me.

00:02:08.526 --> 00:02:09.968
It's my savior.

00:02:09.989 --> 00:02:10.049
Did

00:02:10.788 --> 00:02:12.010
you grow up around the Boston area?

00:02:12.110 --> 00:02:13.132
Is that where you're from originally?

00:02:13.453 --> 00:02:13.752
Yes.

00:02:13.832 --> 00:02:21.401
In fact, the town that I live in now, I lived the first three years of my life until we moved to the town next to this town, Belmont.

00:02:21.641 --> 00:02:24.224
I feel like I've come full circle being back here.

00:02:24.305 --> 00:02:26.807
I've been back here for a little over two years.

00:02:27.429 --> 00:02:31.173
You know, what was it like around Boston when you were growing up and what got you into music?

00:02:31.473 --> 00:02:35.237
I was into music from an early age, you know, from like nine years old.

00:02:35.681 --> 00:02:40.485
I wanted to play the drums and my parents were like, no, girls don't play the drums.

00:02:40.665 --> 00:02:44.469
But I think they really just didn't want to listen to me playing the drums.

00:02:44.750 --> 00:02:49.433
So I ended up getting a accordion from my grandmother.

00:02:49.454 --> 00:02:54.979
She had a friend that was a music teacher and I took lessons for a couple of years and I wanted to play anything.

00:02:55.338 --> 00:02:59.483
So I really didn't want to play the accordion, but it was better than nothing.

00:02:59.643 --> 00:03:02.185
I wanted to play piano or drums.

00:03:02.645 --> 00:03:09.252
Anyway, so I played the accordion for a couple of years and then When I was about 15, I bought my first harmonica.

00:03:09.292 --> 00:03:14.717
It was the only instrument I could afford to buy, and I really wanted to play anything, you know?

00:03:14.758 --> 00:03:17.801
Have you heard much harmonica before you bought it?

00:03:18.201 --> 00:03:19.903
Did you like the sound, or was it just the price?

00:03:20.163 --> 00:03:22.526
No, I actually heard James Cotton.

00:03:23.108 --> 00:03:24.288
He used to come to Boston.

00:03:24.709 --> 00:03:27.752
I heard him when I was 15 years old, and I loved it.

00:03:27.772 --> 00:03:40.647
¶¶ I thought, I could get one of these.

00:03:40.687 --> 00:03:46.175
So I did, but I played it for about a year and I only had one and I didn't know that you needed different keys.

00:03:46.275 --> 00:03:50.520
So I had a good year from learning to play music when I was a little kid.

00:03:50.539 --> 00:03:54.966
I was pretty much self-taught for the first 10 years that I played.

00:03:55.006 --> 00:04:00.151
Then I took a few lessons from Sonny Jr., Gary Onofrio.

00:04:00.453 --> 00:04:04.521
He also helped me you know, retube my amp to get it to sound better.

00:04:04.641 --> 00:04:09.167
Cause that was when he was just starting to make his Sonny Junior amps and they were pretty expensive.

00:04:09.228 --> 00:04:10.128
I couldn't afford one.

00:04:10.188 --> 00:04:13.552
So, but he helped me set mine up to sound good.

00:04:13.752 --> 00:04:14.633
So that was great.

00:04:14.794 --> 00:04:17.338
And he taught me some things that now I use in teaching.

00:04:17.798 --> 00:04:22.985
I had a lot of bad habits when I went to him and he corrected them and helped me out a lot.

00:04:23.225 --> 00:04:27.670
I only took about five lessons from him, but I have, I still have them on cassettes.

00:04:32.865 --> 00:04:35.752
When I listened, you know, to music, I love music.

00:04:35.812 --> 00:04:38.677
You know, it was like I said, it was my solace, my savior.

00:04:38.718 --> 00:04:42.004
I didn't exactly have the greatest home life growing up.

00:04:42.043 --> 00:04:45.290
So it was a place for me to escape into music.

00:04:45.630 --> 00:04:46.754
It's always been there for me.

00:04:47.201 --> 00:04:48.283
I had a G harp.

00:04:49.504 --> 00:04:52.187
I didn't even know what the letter meant.

00:04:52.208 --> 00:04:54.089
I just played it.

00:04:54.411 --> 00:04:55.812
So sometimes it would sound good.

00:04:55.833 --> 00:05:04.863
Obviously, when I was playing along with records that were in the right key, but then sometimes it would be so frustrating because I knew it didn't sound right.

00:05:05.463 --> 00:05:09.910
And then on my 16th birthday, my boyfriend bought me a guitar.

00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:11.271
So I started playing guitar.

00:05:11.291 --> 00:05:12.913
I put the harmonica down for years.

00:05:13.346 --> 00:05:14.747
for like 15 years.

00:05:15.548 --> 00:05:18.452
I played guitar for about eight years and then I played bass.

00:05:19.074 --> 00:05:26.524
And then I was listening to, there was this radio show that May Kramer did every Friday and Saturday night.

00:05:27.105 --> 00:05:29.369
It was a blues show called Blues After Hours.

00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:32.634
That was really my first introduction to the blues.

00:05:33.089 --> 00:05:37.814
When I was younger, when I was a teenager, I was, you know, into the British Invasion.

00:05:37.855 --> 00:05:43.040
I mean, I liked bands that were blues-based, but I didn't know that they were blues-based.

00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:44.521
I didn't really know what the blues was.

00:05:44.581 --> 00:05:56.213
You know, I loved Jeff Beck and the Yardbirds and the Stones and all these bands, Hendrix, that were later on finding out that that's, you know, that's what they listened to, you know.

00:05:56.233 --> 00:06:04.452
Anyway, she advertised a jam session and I went down there and I had my bass and And there was a harmonica player there and he had a case with a bunch of harps.

00:06:04.512 --> 00:06:06.774
And I asked him like, why do you have so many harps?

00:06:07.216 --> 00:06:10.538
And he told me, and I was just, it was like a light bulb went off.

00:06:10.598 --> 00:06:14.603
And I just, next day I went out and bought a couple of different keys and that was it.

00:06:14.862 --> 00:06:20.067
I put down the guitar and I decided, cause I played a little guitar, a little bass.

00:06:20.569 --> 00:06:21.810
I messed around with the drums.

00:06:22.451 --> 00:06:24.452
I just wanted to get good at one instrument.

00:06:24.692 --> 00:06:29.557
And when I picked up the harmonica again, it just felt like this was it, you know?

00:06:29.985 --> 00:06:31.307
It felt comfortable to me.

00:06:31.327 --> 00:06:32.711
It just felt natural.

00:06:33.232 --> 00:06:38.040
So I gave up everything else and focused on playing harmonica because I wanted to get good at it.

00:06:51.824 --> 00:06:52.865
What sort of age were you then?

00:06:52.886 --> 00:06:52.906
I

00:06:53.666 --> 00:06:54.569
was about 30.

00:06:55.617 --> 00:07:00.105
Okay, yeah, so you went back to it after a bit of a hiatus playing other instruments.

00:07:00.125 --> 00:07:02.408
I'm sure those other instruments served you well, Lord.

00:07:02.668 --> 00:07:04.672
Were you playing in bands with guitar and bass?

00:07:05.031 --> 00:07:10.040
I played in one punk band on guitar, just bashing chords.

00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:11.661
I never really got into lead.

00:07:11.701 --> 00:07:12.884
That's why I switched to bass.

00:07:13.084 --> 00:07:14.487
I'm very rhythm-oriented.

00:07:14.867 --> 00:07:17.290
So, yeah, so I was playing bass in some bands.

00:07:17.732 --> 00:07:19.374
And were you singing at this stage?

00:07:19.494 --> 00:07:20.997
No, I didn't sing.

00:07:21.016 --> 00:07:23.339
I was very self-conscious in general, you know.

00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:24.201
I was very shy.

00:07:24.641 --> 00:07:26.805
and afraid to get on stage.

00:07:27.266 --> 00:07:28.427
I always was around music.

00:07:28.507 --> 00:07:36.180
I worked for bands doing lighting and sound and just being in the background, watching, living what I wanted to do through other people.

00:07:36.221 --> 00:07:42.550
And then the band I was working with invited me to come up on stage and play bass when the bass player played keyboards.

00:07:42.930 --> 00:07:46.177
And once I got on stage, it was like, I want to be here.

00:07:46.276 --> 00:07:47.117
I want to be up here.

00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.062
So yeah, that was the start of it.

00:07:50.262 --> 00:07:57.615
And then with Harmonica, I got a job driving limos, specifically so that I could learn how to play harmonica.

00:07:57.634 --> 00:07:59.355
And I had a briefcase full of harps.

00:07:59.857 --> 00:08:02.978
And every time I was waiting for people, I would practice.

00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:05.240
So I spent four years doing that.

00:08:05.321 --> 00:08:06.682
I call it my college.

00:08:07.302 --> 00:08:11.045
That's a good combination, driving a limousine and playing harmonica.

00:08:11.105 --> 00:08:11.927
That's very bluesy.

00:08:12.086 --> 00:08:13.187
It was just perfect.

00:08:13.267 --> 00:08:17.771
It was a way for me to be able to support myself, but also have the time to practice.

00:08:18.213 --> 00:09:00.899
That's like when the pandemic happened, people were upset about being stuck in the house and not being able to do stuff but I just I felt like a teenager again I didn't have to worry about making a living because I was collecting unemployment and I could just stay home and practice so I picked up guitar again and I started playing guitar and now I've been playing with a rack and learning to do that I'm not very good at it yet but working on a duo with a friend of mine and I'm playing guitar and rack I just got a new rack I got the gecko rack from farmers and Saito and then I just got the adapter from Greg Heumann that goes on the rack so that it's enclosed with his bulletini mic.

00:09:01.140 --> 00:09:02.442
And then you plug into an amp.

00:09:02.562 --> 00:09:10.168
So I want to play drums and harp because for some reason, it feels easier to play drums and harp than guitar and harp.

00:09:10.408 --> 00:09:12.110
Is that something you've been practicing with the drums?

00:09:12.509 --> 00:09:12.570
Yes.

00:09:12.590 --> 00:09:17.934
I haven't practiced with the harp and drums yet because I just got the thing from Greg a couple of days ago.

00:09:18.195 --> 00:09:29.166
But I've been playing drums for about a year now because I teach these band ensemble in my town a couple nights a week to teach people how to play in a band, blues.

00:09:29.666 --> 00:09:35.152
And so about a year ago, the drummer in one of the ensembles didn't show up.

00:09:35.572 --> 00:09:39.755
I sat in on drums and everyone was like, wow, you have better time than the other guy.

00:09:39.775 --> 00:09:40.857
Why don't you just play drums?

00:09:40.898 --> 00:09:42.698
So I was like, okay.

00:09:42.980 --> 00:09:44.841
So I've been playing drums now for a year.

00:09:44.902 --> 00:09:46.043
I've taken some lessons.

00:09:46.462 --> 00:09:47.283
It's just music.

00:09:47.364 --> 00:09:48.264
I just love it all.

00:09:48.585 --> 00:09:51.128
I just want to play everything all the time.

00:09:51.187 --> 00:09:51.388
That's

00:09:51.668 --> 00:09:52.028
my life.

00:09:52.089 --> 00:09:53.149
That's great, yeah.

00:09:53.378 --> 00:09:58.402
The idea of playing drums with a rack, I don't see, you don't see that many people doing that.

00:09:58.442 --> 00:10:02.225
Although you do sort of see some sort of one man bands playing kind of one foot drum.

00:10:02.265 --> 00:10:03.307
Is that what you're planning to do?

00:10:03.366 --> 00:10:06.188
A kind of foot drum or a bit more full scale on the drums?

00:10:06.229 --> 00:10:07.890
I'm going to try it all right now.

00:10:07.971 --> 00:10:09.991
It'll just be, I have like a suitcase drum.

00:10:10.253 --> 00:10:11.433
So, and everything fits in there.

00:10:11.474 --> 00:10:13.034
It's got a little short hi-hat.

00:10:13.274 --> 00:10:20.542
It's got a kick pedal that you attach to the, to the drum and it all fits back in the suitcase, which is really convenient.

00:10:20.581 --> 00:10:22.844
So with the duo, that's probably what I'll do.

00:10:22.864 --> 00:10:30.051
You know, I was watching some videos of the guy that plays with, his name is Doug Lemming, I think, from Florida, and he plays drums and harp.

00:10:30.392 --> 00:10:31.692
I would like to try to do that.

00:10:32.313 --> 00:10:33.315
So what about the singing then?

00:10:33.475 --> 00:10:36.638
You started singing shortly after you took up harp again, did you?

00:10:36.958 --> 00:10:40.182
After about three years of playing harp, I got my first gig.

00:10:40.341 --> 00:10:44.927
Did a Monday night jam session in the south end of Boston at this club called Wally's.

00:10:45.167 --> 00:10:47.208
Been a jazz club since the 40s.

00:10:47.830 --> 00:10:52.394
Myself and this other guy, Bobby Bell, started a blues jam on Monday nights there.

00:10:52.434 --> 00:10:53.937
It was down the street from Berkeley.

00:10:53.976 --> 00:10:56.159
So a lot of good musicians would come down and sit in.

00:10:56.179 --> 00:11:04.630
I probably started singing a little bit after I'd been playing for three years or so, but just a little bit.

00:11:04.731 --> 00:11:08.636
And then I was in a band for a long time with a singer.

00:11:08.657 --> 00:11:17.881
So I didn't really start singing I mean, seriously, until I've been playing harp for probably 10 or more years.

00:11:18.823 --> 00:11:46.325
I say you're going through some changes Ups and downs and rearrangements There's just one thing I can say You've got to live for today Trying to find some peace of mind Got to leave those things that's done behind Start living for today Cause baby, that's the only way And the reason I started was because if you don't sing as a harmonica player, you're going to be very limited as what you can do.

00:11:46.384 --> 00:11:56.533
Because when people hire a sideman, they're usually going to hire keyboards or horns, you know, unless they're specifically a blues band that wants harmonica.

00:11:56.813 --> 00:12:01.116
So in order for me to gig all the time and play all the time, I had to sing.

00:12:01.157 --> 00:12:02.158
Yeah.

00:12:02.177 --> 00:12:03.479
So I could affront my own band.

00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:06.381
And that's what I've been doing for, God, many years.

00:12:07.442 --> 00:12:26.062
And so that exact point you know I raise that question quite a lot on here which is you know as you've just said to get a gig as a harmonica player quite often you know they want a singer as well so you know how's that worked out for you and what would you say to people who aren't that confident you know maybe about the singing than they're playing just harmonica at the moment

00:12:26.363 --> 00:12:39.097
well it's just like everything you just got to keep practicing and I always record myself and that's the best teacher recording yourself and listening back and it can be really painful especially in the beginning.

00:12:39.158 --> 00:12:43.427
The first time you hear your voice on a recording, it's not pleasant usually.

00:12:44.481 --> 00:12:47.605
I mean, with everything, the more you do it, the better you get.

00:12:47.845 --> 00:12:54.110
You know, I'm just a hands-on or like what I call it for harmonica is mouths-on kind of person.

00:12:54.711 --> 00:12:55.532
You just got to do it.

00:12:55.552 --> 00:12:56.532
You just got to keep doing it.

00:12:57.013 --> 00:13:04.359
Going back then to your harmonica development, when you sort of got more into it, as you said, around the age 30, what were you sort of listening to then?

00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:06.360
How were you learning the harmonica at that stage?

00:13:06.681 --> 00:13:08.982
Well, at that point, it was cassettes.

00:13:09.423 --> 00:13:13.586
I had a friend, Gordon Beadle, who was really a blues encyclopedia.

00:13:13.846 --> 00:13:15.832
He would make me these cassette tapes.

00:13:16.254 --> 00:13:18.803
And I swear he could write smaller than anyone on the planet.

00:13:18.964 --> 00:13:23.701
And he would actually put the label and everything of the recording and the year.

00:13:23.721 --> 00:13:24.023
It was...

00:13:25.025 --> 00:13:28.208
So I just immersed myself in blues.

00:13:28.308 --> 00:13:31.491
I mean, I listened to that show while I was driving limo.

00:13:31.711 --> 00:13:38.378
I listened to that show every Friday and Saturday night and I would put on a cassette tape and record it at home.

00:13:38.577 --> 00:13:46.485
I'd go out and drive and then I'd hope that I was somewhere close enough in 45 minutes that I could drive home, run in the house and turn the tape over.

00:13:46.524 --> 00:13:51.688
I have milk crates full of cassettes of radio shows, gigs.

00:13:52.549 --> 00:13:53.169
It's crazy.

00:13:53.691 --> 00:13:54.652
I don't know why I keep them.

00:13:54.991 --> 00:14:01.259
And harmonica-wise on

00:14:09.407 --> 00:14:24.442
that show, and other harmonica players you listened to then?

00:14:24.943 --> 00:14:25.884
didn't know how to do yet.

00:14:26.304 --> 00:14:28.368
And I had a good ear and I could do a melody.

00:14:28.788 --> 00:14:32.130
So I would listen to saxophone players.

00:14:32.392 --> 00:14:35.835
And I think that helped me with my phrasing later on.

00:14:36.075 --> 00:14:41.821
And I was really pleased when I read the little Walter book, Blues with a Feeling, that he did the same thing.

00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:44.464
He listened to saxophone players.

00:14:44.783 --> 00:14:47.267
And there were a couple of saxophone players in my town.

00:14:47.287 --> 00:14:51.211
There was a lot of horn players around Boston and I would get to hear them live.

00:14:51.230 --> 00:14:58.889
And so, I don't know, it was just a way for me to to play and not feel intimidated that I didn't sound like a harmonica player yet.

00:14:59.190 --> 00:15:04.215
So for somebody who might be trying to emulate a horn sound, what would you say about how to approach that?

00:15:04.735 --> 00:15:09.839
Listen to it and try to emulate, try to, you know, pick out the notes, play the melody.

00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:10.639
Yeah.

00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.864
Were you playing along with saxophone players or just listening and kind of just trying to absorb it?

00:15:15.043 --> 00:15:16.644
I was listening and absorbing.

00:15:16.684 --> 00:15:20.568
Like I said, there were people around town that I could listen to them live.

00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:24.994
When I started listening to harp players, the harp players, of course, all the chorus Little Walter.

00:15:25.014 --> 00:15:38.524
I got to say Little Walter is my favorite.

00:15:38.566 --> 00:15:41.932
I just gravitate towards him so much.

00:15:42.402 --> 00:15:46.065
You know, I also loved Big Walter and Sonny Terry.

00:15:46.086 --> 00:15:47.187
I love Sonny Terry.

00:15:47.206 --> 00:15:50.710
I can't play anything like him because he's so different than anybody.

00:15:50.730 --> 00:15:51.850
I love his style.

00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:54.293
You know, Sonny Boy Williamson, one and two.

00:15:54.994 --> 00:15:59.818
You know, but then over the years, I mean, there's a million harp players that I've gotten into.

00:16:00.219 --> 00:16:01.279
I like William Clark.

00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:02.620
So do I.

00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:03.022
Yeah.

00:16:03.402 --> 00:16:05.703
I listen to him for chromatic and Walter, too.

00:16:05.724 --> 00:16:07.306
I just play.

00:16:07.346 --> 00:16:08.105
I don't use the button.

00:16:08.145 --> 00:16:09.226
I just play basic.

00:16:09.508 --> 00:16:11.249
I play it mostly in third position.

00:16:12.225 --> 00:16:13.246
What about your chromatic?

00:16:13.267 --> 00:16:16.770
Is that you spend a lot of time playing some blues chromatic in third position?

00:16:16.811 --> 00:16:33.270
I play it a bit.

00:16:33.291 --> 00:16:36.053
That was a William Clark song called Greasy Gravy.

00:16:36.514 --> 00:16:36.833
Yeah.

00:16:36.914 --> 00:16:39.437
I usually use that for my opener on my shows.

00:16:39.817 --> 00:16:41.740
It's a nice tune to warm up on.

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:42.221
Yeah.

00:16:42.522 --> 00:16:42.601
Yeah.

00:16:42.682 --> 00:16:43.263
Great tune.

00:16:43.283 --> 00:16:43.403
Yeah.

00:16:43.844 --> 00:16:44.063
Great.

00:16:44.104 --> 00:16:49.672
So it's good to hear, like you say, you probably didn't sort of take up the harp seriously until about the age of 30.

00:16:49.731 --> 00:16:53.296
So, you know, I think that's encouraging for people, isn't it?

00:16:53.375 --> 00:17:00.206
Who, you know, maybe if they didn't start when they were teenagers, like a lot of people do that, you can still do it, you know, then, and you'll really get into it like you did.

00:17:00.265 --> 00:17:00.485
Yes.

00:17:00.645 --> 00:17:04.451
I'm a big proponent of, you can teach an old dog new tricks.

00:17:04.912 --> 00:17:07.310
You can do anything you, put your mind to.

00:17:07.451 --> 00:17:10.532
That's why I love teaching because I teach all adults.

00:17:10.794 --> 00:17:15.178
I mean, I've had a couple of kids students, but I teach adults mostly.

00:17:15.298 --> 00:17:17.439
The ensembles that I teach are all adults.

00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:19.801
The workshops, they're all adults.

00:17:19.862 --> 00:17:27.888
And there are people that they might've wanted to play music when they were young, but they didn't because there's a lot of things you need to sacrifice to play music.

00:17:28.048 --> 00:17:30.810
Would you have a family and a quote unquote real job?

00:17:31.290 --> 00:17:37.917
Then they're retired and they have the time and they want to take up an instrument and they wanted to play harmonica.

00:17:38.077 --> 00:17:39.219
And I just, I love that.

00:17:39.378 --> 00:17:44.084
I love spreading the joy of that little pocket pal.

00:17:44.163 --> 00:17:47.086
It's just so, it's, it's the people's instrument.

00:17:47.887 --> 00:17:48.969
It's just so wonderful.

00:17:48.989 --> 00:17:49.730
I just love it.

00:17:50.171 --> 00:17:51.271
Oh, we love it on here too.

00:17:51.372 --> 00:17:57.278
So you mentioned there that you'd started a jam in Boston on Monday nights near Barkley School of Music.

00:17:57.317 --> 00:17:59.740
So you, you know, you're getting people coming from that.

00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:03.044
So that helped you sort of get on the scene there, did it?

00:18:03.144 --> 00:18:07.388
And help sort of get your, get your presence in Boston and be with the musicians

00:18:07.869 --> 00:18:08.109
there, did it?

00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:08.911
Absolutely.

00:18:09.431 --> 00:18:19.501
Because the reason that I started it with that guy was because Bobby, it was like, we would go to jams and we would sit there late and maybe we would get up and maybe we wouldn't.

00:18:20.001 --> 00:18:21.423
And we were both frustrated.

00:18:21.463 --> 00:18:23.425
And he told me about this place.

00:18:23.605 --> 00:18:26.910
It was in the black area of town.

00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:32.736
And it was basically a black club, but it got infiltrated with all Berkeley students.

00:18:32.796 --> 00:18:34.117
So then it was a mix.

00:18:34.698 --> 00:18:37.260
Starting that jam was a way for me to get into the scene.

00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:39.864
And yes, it was like I started being known.

00:18:39.943 --> 00:18:42.406
And he left after about three months.

00:18:43.228 --> 00:18:45.770
So I kept it going for three years.

00:18:46.070 --> 00:18:52.999
And then I also met a lot of musicians through that and ended up putting together a band and then started going out on the road.

00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.765
And once I did that, I wasn't around for the Mondays.

00:18:58.486 --> 00:19:01.670
So I ended up giving up that gig after about three years.

00:19:02.049 --> 00:19:23.669
And did a lot of road work.

00:19:32.016 --> 00:19:36.465
And that would be more fun for me and more fun for the audience as well.

00:19:36.787 --> 00:19:37.608
He agreed to it.

00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:41.518
And I did that gig for six and a half years until the place closed.

00:19:41.858 --> 00:19:43.040
That was really...

00:19:43.362 --> 00:19:45.604
a huge learning experience for me.

00:19:45.864 --> 00:19:49.106
And for singing, I had enough to hire a seven-piece band.

00:19:49.126 --> 00:19:53.851
I would have bass, drums, guitar, harmonica, keyboards, and a saxophone, and a singer.

00:19:54.171 --> 00:19:56.053
So I was a different singer every week.

00:19:56.153 --> 00:19:59.615
And I got to listen to all these great singers around Boston.

00:19:59.635 --> 00:20:04.119
And even sometimes some nationals, they'd heard about it and they would stop in.

00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:06.041
It became a musician's hang.

00:20:06.082 --> 00:20:07.563
And it was so great.

00:20:07.823 --> 00:20:09.064
I loved those years.

00:20:09.505 --> 00:20:10.726
I wish I could do that again.

00:20:10.766 --> 00:20:33.989
And when I would be on the road, I would just have somebody sub it for me I wouldn't go out on the road that long I would go up for trips like three weeks a month so that that was a huge learning experience for me I got not only did I get hooked in with all the musicians on this blues scene but I also learned so much from playing with musicians that were basically better than me because I started so late

00:20:34.328 --> 00:20:38.333
yeah definitely yeah it's a great way like you say to absorb yourself in the scene oh

00:20:38.733 --> 00:20:42.597
yeah I mean everything came out of that I really got hooked in

00:20:43.394 --> 00:20:43.694
Yeah.

00:20:43.974 --> 00:20:48.928
And then, is it right, you turned into a full-time musician about 91.

00:20:49.891 --> 00:20:51.775
So then what, you started touring around, did you?

00:20:52.457 --> 00:20:52.718
Yes.

00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:55.846
So how did that come about then, that decision?

00:20:56.066 --> 00:21:04.842
To be honest, one of the reasons was we used to go down to Florida a lot in the winter, you know, down south, travel down to Mississippi.

00:21:04.942 --> 00:21:06.203
And I wanted to go there.

00:21:06.223 --> 00:21:09.830
I wanted to go to the land where the blues was born, you know.

00:21:09.871 --> 00:21:11.473
So we did touring down there.

00:21:11.513 --> 00:21:14.519
And I also wanted to get away from the winters up here.

00:21:14.558 --> 00:21:15.961
The winters up here are brutal.

00:21:16.221 --> 00:21:18.205
And so that was a way to get away, too.

00:21:18.498 --> 00:21:29.884
I was kind of used to that and used to traveling because when I was a kid, my dad worked a job at a country club that he wouldn't get a vacation in the summer, get a vacation in the winter, and we would always drive to Florida.

00:21:29.904 --> 00:21:32.049
He didn't like to fly, so we would drive.

00:21:32.411 --> 00:21:35.198
So I was used to getting out of the winter for vacation.

00:21:35.298 --> 00:21:37.523
three weeks in the middle, like in February.

00:21:37.544 --> 00:21:39.711
And so I wanted to recreate that.

00:21:39.830 --> 00:21:43.059
So we ended up doing, you know, a lot of gigs down in Key West.

00:21:43.521 --> 00:21:50.361
I held the Fantasy Fest week, which is one of their biggest, it's like their Mardi Gras at the Green Parrot every year for 10 years.

00:21:50.786 --> 00:21:54.608
We would be down there every October and then do gigs all around there.

00:21:54.648 --> 00:22:02.695
Yeah, music has been a way for me to meet people, travel, bring joy into people's lives.

00:22:03.057 --> 00:22:10.603
And there's nothing better than playing music, looking out at the audience and seeing people smile and seeing people dance and seeing people get joy from it.

00:22:10.863 --> 00:22:11.384
It's awesome.

00:22:11.844 --> 00:22:14.906
As well as this, you play with lots of the blues greats as well, haven't you?

00:22:15.067 --> 00:22:18.230
And you've met various ones, including Junior Wells.

00:22:18.269 --> 00:22:20.291
I think, tell us a story about Junior Wells.

00:22:20.311 --> 00:22:25.117
I think you went To save Maxwell Street in Chicago, and that's how you hooked up with Junior Wells, is it?

00:22:25.157 --> 00:22:25.459
Yes.

00:22:25.598 --> 00:22:29.604
Again, my buddy Gordon told me that Maxwell Street was going to be closing.

00:22:29.644 --> 00:22:30.885
That was in 1994.

00:22:31.567 --> 00:22:34.049
This was when the market was closing, was it?

00:22:34.550 --> 00:22:37.915
The market was going to be closing because they wanted to gentrify it.

00:22:37.935 --> 00:22:39.037
They wanted to tear it down.

00:22:39.650 --> 00:22:41.491
And I went there to protest.

00:22:41.872 --> 00:22:44.974
And also it was during the Blues Festival.

00:22:45.015 --> 00:22:46.757
So I got to go to the Blues Festival as well.

00:22:46.817 --> 00:22:50.020
But the Blues Festival was, in the daytime, it was great.

00:22:50.121 --> 00:22:52.063
But at night it was like herding cows.

00:22:52.143 --> 00:22:55.987
It was like, it was so crowded and so claustrophobic and I couldn't take it.

00:22:56.067 --> 00:22:59.789
So I left, got in a cab and went to the checkerboard lounge.

00:23:00.191 --> 00:23:01.051
There was a jam there.

00:23:01.071 --> 00:23:02.472
I went and I sat.

00:23:02.512 --> 00:23:03.733
So I sat in with the band.

00:23:03.775 --> 00:23:06.998
And while I was playing with the band, Junior Wells walked in.

00:23:07.362 --> 00:23:15.195
So when he started walking up to the stage after the song that I was playing was done, I started to walk off the stage and the guys in the band said, no, no, stay here.

00:23:15.557 --> 00:23:16.401
Junior will love you.

00:23:16.705 --> 00:23:17.846
And I was like, okay.

00:23:18.067 --> 00:23:21.890
And he'd get up on stage and he was very nice to me.

00:23:21.911 --> 00:23:24.373
And so I got to play with Junior Wells.

00:23:24.432 --> 00:23:25.374
It was amazing.

00:23:26.433 --> 00:23:27.935
And I also got to be in a movie.

00:23:28.195 --> 00:23:31.659
There's a movie called Cheat You Fair, the story of Maxwell Street.

00:23:31.878 --> 00:23:34.500
This guy, Phil Randstrom put out from Chicago.

00:23:34.520 --> 00:23:40.346
12 years after the Maxwell Street thing, which they did end up tearing it down that August.

00:23:40.467 --> 00:23:42.048
This was in June of 94.

00:23:42.627 --> 00:23:49.015
He found me on the internet and told me that he had footage of me because he interviewed me while I was playing with this band.

00:23:49.055 --> 00:23:54.599
Now, that was my dream to go down there and play where Little Walter played, where Little Walter electrified the harmonica.

00:23:54.921 --> 00:23:59.526
That was, to me, an iconic place to go.

00:23:59.586 --> 00:24:00.346
And I did it.

00:24:00.366 --> 00:24:05.092
I played on Maxwell Street with a band, a street band.

00:24:05.392 --> 00:24:06.692
It was a great experience.

00:24:06.712 --> 00:24:12.098
So anyway, he was there with the film crew and they stopped and interviewed me and asked me what I was doing there.

00:24:12.159 --> 00:24:29.156
And they put me in the film, along with people like Junior well as a charlie muscle white and all all these you know other great folks it might be corny to say but i feel really blessed to have the experiences i've had all through that little instrument my harmonica

00:24:29.438 --> 00:24:32.861
and didn't you also appear in a james cotton film as well

00:24:33.082 --> 00:24:41.990
yes i haven't seen it yet because i was on the road when the premiere happened so i'm hoping that it comes out a way that i can see it

00:24:43.152 --> 00:24:45.615
it's not released yet is it not this james cotton

00:24:45.835 --> 00:25:02.461
it isn't released to the general public right now it's playing film festivals so I played one in Boston while I was out of town so I missed it and then I played one down in the vineyard which I also couldn't make so I don't know when I'm going to get to see it

00:25:02.982 --> 00:25:04.325
and what are you doing in this film?

00:25:04.585 --> 00:25:09.530
I did a bunch of footage there I was there for two days and there was I was in the greatest company.

00:25:09.671 --> 00:25:12.699
The segments I did, one of the segments was an acoustic segment.

00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.506
They had three different segments and different people played in them.

00:25:15.625 --> 00:25:22.625
And the people that I got to play with and sit around and talk and interview with was Rick Estrin, Kenny Neal, Jerry Portnoy.

00:25:22.644 --> 00:25:24.569
I think that was it in our segment.

00:25:24.834 --> 00:25:28.737
The interviewer just asked us questions about our association with James.

00:25:28.836 --> 00:25:31.299
And then we played a gig.

00:25:31.339 --> 00:25:32.540
So we were there for two days.

00:25:33.080 --> 00:25:35.323
We were in this warehouse and we filmed those.

00:25:35.383 --> 00:25:37.744
And then we played a gig for the public.

00:25:38.025 --> 00:25:41.448
And I played three songs with James's band from Chicago.

00:25:41.788 --> 00:25:44.131
But I don't know if they ended up in the film or not.

00:25:44.431 --> 00:25:46.613
So how did you get invited to take part in this one?

00:25:47.133 --> 00:25:49.595
James Montgomery was the one putting it together.

00:25:49.756 --> 00:25:50.997
And he's a good friend of mine.

00:25:51.317 --> 00:25:52.498
He asked me to do it.

00:25:52.758 --> 00:25:57.105
I mean, there was so many great harmonica players on this thing.

00:25:57.565 --> 00:25:59.730
It was really fun two days.

00:26:00.490 --> 00:26:08.145
Getting up in the morning and having breakfast with Paul Usher, Jerry Portnoy, Rick Estrin, you know, all these, Curtis Salgado.

00:26:08.446 --> 00:26:09.107
It was crazy.

00:26:09.147 --> 00:26:10.611
It was really fun.

00:26:10.852 --> 00:26:11.613
Yeah, fantastic.

00:26:11.673 --> 00:26:12.895
We'll get to see that one soon.

00:26:12.915 --> 00:26:13.817
We're watching out for you.

00:26:14.210 --> 00:26:20.221
So when you're not appearing in blues movies, you released a critically acclaimed album, Blues Got Me, in 2003.

00:26:21.002 --> 00:26:21.243
Yes.

00:26:21.805 --> 00:26:22.967
I need to do a new CD.

00:26:23.208 --> 00:26:24.329
It's been way too long.

00:26:24.851 --> 00:26:29.460
I did a CD when I was living in Texas with my duo partner down there.

00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:30.121
That was 2007.

00:26:30.362 --> 00:26:34.750
And I've played on a lot of other people's recordings.

00:26:36.493 --> 00:26:36.574
Yeah.

00:26:50.786 --> 00:26:56.192
But I keep procrastinating, and I'm going to say this right now on the air.

00:26:56.776 --> 00:26:59.568
In 2023, I am putting out a new CD.

00:26:59.905 --> 00:27:10.815
now you're committed to it now it's out there now that's right thoughts on here with several people about the challenge of making albums these days and the fact that it costs a lot of money which you don't necessarily get back so we can understand that

00:27:11.016 --> 00:27:28.931
yes that's part of the reason part of the reason is also just i'm super critical of myself and i i have a bunch of songs that i've written that i like oh that's not good enough oh that's not good enough you know so i have to just like let go of that and just do it and you know i'll also do some covers you know tribute to my harmonica heroes

00:27:29.412 --> 00:27:36.159
i mean on the you mentioned writing songs there so you've you wrote quite a few originals on this album i think five or so songs yeah so

00:27:36.398 --> 00:27:38.381
yes i seven songs yep

00:27:39.061 --> 00:27:42.125
yeah so you know how do you approach writing a blues song

00:27:42.464 --> 00:28:13.027
part of the the reason too that i haven't put on another cd is because i i am definitely into collaborating and my collaborator moved years ago you know i play a little guitar but not necessarily enough to write songs so basically i start with the lyrics and then i hear whatever melody in my head and then I need somebody that can really play proficiently on an instrument to like and then I sing them what I'm hearing you know and it'll kind of be like okay I'm No, not that chord.

00:28:13.146 --> 00:28:14.288
No, no, no, not that.

00:28:14.448 --> 00:28:15.328
No, yeah, that one.

00:28:17.770 --> 00:28:18.852
Because I'm really bad.

00:28:18.912 --> 00:28:20.492
I don't know a lot about theory.

00:28:20.532 --> 00:28:24.436
I play totally by ear on harmonica and on guitar.

00:28:24.457 --> 00:28:28.820
I mean, I know what chords I'm playing, but I'm just really, really an ear player.

00:28:29.201 --> 00:28:32.384
Yeah, so you need someone to collaborate with to write songs.

00:28:32.483 --> 00:28:33.183
That's good.

00:28:33.223 --> 00:28:33.964
Lots of people did that.

00:28:34.224 --> 00:28:36.426
Lennon and McCartney did that, so it's okay for them.

00:28:36.527 --> 00:28:37.347
It's okay for you.

00:28:38.749 --> 00:28:40.371
Well, yeah, it's okay for them.

00:28:40.431 --> 00:28:41.531
It's okay for anybody.

00:28:41.872 --> 00:28:45.596
Yeah, so, you know, like you say, you've got a few origins on here.

00:28:45.675 --> 00:28:47.678
There's a song called Blow My Blues Away.

00:28:47.698 --> 00:29:02.952
Is that a harmonica-related title?

00:29:03.453 --> 00:29:03.794
Yes.

00:29:04.214 --> 00:29:11.321
Well, it's kind of a double entendre, you know, blowing my blues away by going down to the south and thinking I wanted to move there.

00:29:11.713 --> 00:29:12.335
which I did.

00:29:12.355 --> 00:29:15.021
I didn't move to Mississippi, but I moved to Texas.

00:29:15.462 --> 00:29:17.145
I actually wrote that song.

00:29:17.507 --> 00:29:20.473
I collaborated with Johnny Rawls, who is from Mississippi.

00:29:20.755 --> 00:29:25.484
I did a little bit of touring with him, and I was telling him about the song one day.

00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:29.794
He started playing his guitar and it just evolved.

00:29:30.795 --> 00:29:36.259
I wrote about fantasizing about moving down south because a few reasons.

00:29:36.641 --> 00:29:38.982
It's warm for one.

00:29:39.202 --> 00:29:42.366
That's the biggest reason that says it in the song.

00:29:42.686 --> 00:29:43.788
I'm tired of winter.

00:29:43.807 --> 00:29:50.575
Also, just the culture and being down there around where the music I love started.

00:29:51.174 --> 00:29:53.357
A lot of it started in Texas too.

00:29:53.922 --> 00:30:03.363
I mean, Dallas, where I was living, that's, you know, where the recording studio where Robert Johnson recorded, you know, which they didn't manage to save that because people protested.

00:30:03.403 --> 00:30:04.726
They were going to tear that down, too.

00:30:04.786 --> 00:30:08.253
There's so many blues iconic places everywhere.

00:30:08.546 --> 00:30:09.667
Did you manage to save that one?

00:30:10.209 --> 00:30:10.869
They saved it.

00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:11.550
We saved it,

00:30:11.631 --> 00:30:11.932
yeah.

00:30:12.172 --> 00:30:12.992
One victory, yeah.

00:30:13.273 --> 00:30:19.384
Yeah, so it's now a historic place, and they never can get rid of it.

00:30:19.704 --> 00:30:22.990
And also on here, you do a couple of Little Walter songs.

00:30:23.009 --> 00:30:25.473
You say you're a big fan, so you do Baby.

00:30:29.902 --> 00:30:29.981
Baby.

00:30:39.874 --> 00:30:42.058
Yeah, I tried to pick obscure ones.

00:30:42.138 --> 00:30:48.855
Well, I mean, It Ain't Right isn't that obscure, but Baby is not really a popular song that people know.

00:30:48.894 --> 00:30:51.340
Yeah, it's not on all the greatest hit ones, is it?

00:30:51.361 --> 00:30:53.506
You have to go and dig on the albums to find that one, yeah.

00:30:54.067 --> 00:30:55.369
Yeah, but I love Little Walter.

00:30:55.391 --> 00:30:58.217
I do a lot of Walter in my live shows.

00:30:58.849 --> 00:30:59.109
Yeah.

00:30:59.230 --> 00:31:07.683
And you also, you mentioned earlier on that you like, you know, horn plays and you do grazing in the grass, which is a harmonica version of a horn song.

00:31:07.723 --> 00:31:07.904
Yeah.

00:31:07.964 --> 00:31:10.328
So you're definitely trying to replicate the horn sound on that.

00:31:18.541 --> 00:31:18.622
Yeah.

00:31:34.529 --> 00:31:40.838
Yeah, I wanted to do something, a melody, you know, like, you know how it is on harmonica.

00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.145
Melodies don't always lay out perfectly, which is why you got to do bends.

00:31:45.246 --> 00:31:48.431
And sometimes the bends don't sound right in the mix of a melody.

00:31:49.031 --> 00:32:03.713
So when I found out, I wanted to do a song that was popular, that people would recognize the melody, but do it on harmonica, you know, that was originally done on a horn, like kind of like what Kim Wilson did with Cherry Pink.

00:32:04.226 --> 00:32:10.093
And so I remember that song from the 60s, the vocal version and the Hugh Mascala version.

00:32:10.133 --> 00:32:13.788
And I tried playing it one day and all the notes laid out.

00:32:14.082 --> 00:32:15.363
And I was like, yes.

00:32:15.963 --> 00:32:20.047
And so, as you mentioned there, you're desperate to get another album out.

00:32:20.067 --> 00:32:24.730
You're committed to get another album out in 2023, but you do a lot of playing live.

00:32:24.911 --> 00:32:26.853
You've got a YouTube channel with that on.

00:32:26.893 --> 00:32:30.695
So you were saying that you played with a big band, a 20-piece big band.

00:32:30.736 --> 00:32:30.916
Yeah.

00:32:30.957 --> 00:32:32.317
So how was that?

00:32:32.917 --> 00:32:34.680
Oh, that was amazing.

00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:43.667
There was this big band playing in Dallas and I went to see them and I actually walked up to the conductor and asked him if I could sit in.

00:32:44.048 --> 00:32:52.623
I think he said no, but he did say he wanted to get together with me and have me do a song he had in mind on harmonica.

00:32:52.643 --> 00:32:57.010
I can't remember what it was exactly, but it was an interesting part to learn.

00:32:57.171 --> 00:33:04.443
But anyway, when I went to rehearsal with them, we tried some other songs and Honeysuckle Rose was the one that I think is on that video.

00:33:05.365 --> 00:33:05.405
Oh,

00:33:24.193 --> 00:33:26.057
It was so much fun.

00:33:26.076 --> 00:33:31.907
I got to like trade fours with the horn section and switch keys because they modulated in the song.

00:33:32.268 --> 00:33:33.931
It was just exhilarating.

00:33:33.971 --> 00:33:35.153
And I played with them quite a bit.

00:33:35.374 --> 00:33:37.958
I did quite a few gigs with them when I was living down there.

00:33:47.201 --> 00:33:51.365
I played in the church band in Dallas, Black Baptist Church.

00:33:51.385 --> 00:33:53.267
It was called the Herve Cedar Baptist Church.

00:33:53.326 --> 00:33:54.347
And Andrew Jr.

00:33:54.367 --> 00:33:56.250
Boy Jones, I toured with him for a while.

00:33:56.289 --> 00:34:00.173
He played with Freddie King back when he was a teenager.

00:34:00.353 --> 00:34:02.075
Anyway, he took me to the church one day.

00:34:02.095 --> 00:34:03.296
It was awesome.

00:34:03.476 --> 00:34:03.957
I loved it.

00:34:04.156 --> 00:34:08.721
And I ended up auditioning sort of by playing Amazing Grace for the congregation.

00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:12.063
And the next day I was in the band and I played in the band for eight years.

00:34:12.103 --> 00:34:13.684
And it was a great experience.

00:34:14.184 --> 00:34:19.130
I also, you know, in Dallas, I got to hang out with Sam Myers I got to play with so many people.

00:34:19.190 --> 00:34:23.914
There was opportunities, so many musical opportunities and going down to Austin as well.

00:34:24.155 --> 00:34:28.780
And three different duo acts I worked with and I played, had my own band.

00:34:29.121 --> 00:34:31.663
I played in a few black bands in South Dallas.

00:34:31.923 --> 00:34:36.789
It was just a great, I fit a lot of music into eight years and that big band too.

00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:38.510
Always been into jazz.

00:34:38.570 --> 00:34:42.414
I was into jazz before I was into blues and I like singing jazz.

00:34:42.474 --> 00:34:46.539
I'm starting to do more of that because I'm not really a blues belter.

00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:48.762
You know, I don't I don't have that kind of voice.

00:34:48.802 --> 00:34:50.184
I can't sing like Coco Taylor.

00:34:50.666 --> 00:35:00.481
That's why a lot of times I sing male songs, because just like with the harmonica, when I first started not sounding like a harmonica, I imitated horns.

00:35:00.581 --> 00:35:06.251
Well, when I first started singing, I would sing songs that were done by men, so I didn't have to sound like them.

00:35:06.592 --> 00:35:07.713
I just sang like myself.

00:35:08.193 --> 00:35:16.820
But I find that I really gravitate towards, you know, the soft, like loungy type stuff like Julie London.

00:35:16.902 --> 00:35:18.483
And I love Billie Holiday.

00:35:18.503 --> 00:35:21.666
I mean, when I was a kid, I got turned on to a lot of good music.

00:35:21.686 --> 00:35:26.909
I must say my parents were, you know, they used to go to the Newport Jazz Festival and they had a lot of great records.

00:35:26.949 --> 00:35:30.833
You know, I heard Louis Armstrong and Billie Holiday when I was a little kid and I loved it.

00:35:31.213 --> 00:35:35.657
They liked good music, but they weren't supportive of me with my music.

00:35:35.838 --> 00:35:39.280
It was like, you know, get a real job, you know, all You'll never stick with it.

00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:46.150
I think that almost helped me because to rebel against my parents, I stuck with it.

00:35:46.190 --> 00:35:51.115
Talking about jazz, you do a nice instrumental version of Stormy Weather as well.

00:35:52.356 --> 00:36:03.070
Oh, oh, oh.

00:36:05.793 --> 00:36:09.862
Yes, but I actually kind of stole that from Jerry Portnoy.

00:36:10.063 --> 00:36:17.878
Jerry Portnoy has a great version of that on one of his CDs down in the Mood Room, which he recorded, same place I recorded it, Duke Robillard's studio.

00:36:17.898 --> 00:36:20.304
And you're playing this on a diatonic?

00:36:20.643 --> 00:36:20.925
Yes.

00:36:21.286 --> 00:36:22.228
You're not playing overblows?

00:36:22.407 --> 00:36:23.891
No, I don't do overblows.

00:36:24.192 --> 00:36:25.072
I did one once.

00:36:25.538 --> 00:36:36.327
to just prove that i could do it but they don't sound right to me they don't they don't sound like the true note a lot of the greats don't do them so i don't feel like it's necessary for me to learn them

00:36:36.728 --> 00:36:43.132
and i've got you doing a bit of acoustic playing playing big roads you like to play some acoustic harmonica as well how do you approach that

00:36:43.474 --> 00:36:56.465
i love playing acoustic and whenever i play with a duo i never play through an amp i always play through the vocal mic so that i can use my hands it's a totally different thing you can get so much sound with your hands i love played acoustically.

00:36:58.889 --> 00:37:11.150
And I finally found a duo partner here.

00:37:11.570 --> 00:37:14.030
We've been working on on stuff.

00:37:14.110 --> 00:37:15.692
We started during the pandemic.

00:37:15.992 --> 00:37:17.634
We have a pretty big repertoire now.

00:37:17.673 --> 00:37:21.376
We've done one gig, but I'm looking to book more gigs with the duo.

00:37:21.617 --> 00:37:24.460
You know, expanding, like I said, playing guitar, playing on a rack.

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:25.340
Playing drums.

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:28.163
Playing drums, yeah.

00:37:28.302 --> 00:37:32.947
That's the thing about, like before when I said I was blessed, it's like I never get bored with music.

00:37:33.106 --> 00:37:34.789
There's just so much to learn.

00:37:35.009 --> 00:37:35.829
It never ends.

00:37:36.289 --> 00:37:41.835
So, I don't really like to ask this question, but what is it like being a woman in blues and in music?

00:37:41.894 --> 00:37:49.762
Is that something which you do you find sometimes it's difficult you know the men sort of don't let you in or do you find it sometimes it is you know it's quite a good thing as well

00:37:50.304 --> 00:37:54.128
both it can work to my advantage and it can work against me I

00:37:54.648 --> 00:38:04.438
mean you obviously see more men playing music generally than women you know so what would you do to encourage any women listening maybe as harp players especially obviously on here to you know to get out and play

00:38:04.918 --> 00:38:16.711
play out and let them see me and look and say hey if she could do that I could do it and that's how it works the harmonica camps that I teach to South, when I first started teaching them, it was mainly men.

00:38:17.032 --> 00:38:18.273
It might have been one or two women.

00:38:18.534 --> 00:38:23.039
But I think because of me being one of the teachers, it drew in more women.

00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:27.525
And now the camp that we're doing in September is half and half.

00:38:28.005 --> 00:38:28.365
Oh, wow.

00:38:29.286 --> 00:38:29.367
Yeah.

00:38:29.487 --> 00:38:35.213
I'm trying to make the world a better place by teaching people how to play harmonica in a good way.

00:38:35.253 --> 00:38:38.978
So the women are better than the men at harmonica, you think?

00:38:39.297 --> 00:38:39.938
Well, you know what?

00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:41.181
Maybe, yeah.

00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:41.922
You know why?

00:38:41.961 --> 00:38:42.021
Why?

00:38:42.465 --> 00:38:43.619
because they listen.

00:38:43.905 --> 00:38:55.896
I've got a song I wrote about that.

00:39:13.871 --> 00:39:18.436
always changing for the better for women yeah we could do anything you guys can do

00:39:19.777 --> 00:39:38.699
definitely see you touched on the uh the harmonica camp that you run so so let's talk about that now it's called the harmonica experience it's a five-day workshop camp we're in clarksdale mississippi yes which is which is the home of the blues yeah so this is um this is where robert johnson went to the crossroads mentioned robert johnson earlier on so yeah this is a real home of the blues down there yeah

00:39:39.018 --> 00:39:47.719
yes it is that's why i chose the location i used to we used to do it uh I worked for John Gindik and we'd do it in hotels all around the country.

00:39:47.739 --> 00:39:51.132
It was such a sterile environment being in a hotel where...

00:39:51.746 --> 00:39:56.929
I told John about the Hobson and Shackup Inn down in Clarksdale.

00:39:57.251 --> 00:40:01.313
I said, this would be the perfect place because it's where Robert Johnson sold it.

00:40:01.373 --> 00:40:02.135
It's the crossroads.

00:40:02.215 --> 00:40:07.800
It's like the setting is perfect, the vibe, and this would be a place where they'd appreciate the music.

00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.762
And I knew about it because I used to go to the King Biscuit Festival.

00:40:10.842 --> 00:40:13.405
I used to busk at the King Biscuit Festival.

00:40:13.465 --> 00:40:19.630
I played it one time with Big Bill Morganfield, but I used to busk there with my duo partner from Texas.

00:40:20.490 --> 00:40:21.692
So the Sunday...

00:40:21.711 --> 00:40:44.150
after party after the King Biscuit Festival that happens over at Hobson and Shackup Inn where we do the camps is Pine Tops Homecoming they call it and it was I believe it was his birthday but he used to work at that plantation and And he was a mechanic and he worked on the tractors and stuff for the cotton fields.

00:40:44.972 --> 00:40:52.476
And so the building that me and two of the other coaches stay in, they call it Bill's house, was the...

00:40:53.186 --> 00:40:55.427
the garage where Pinetop worked.

00:40:56.028 --> 00:40:57.050
I mean, he was there.

00:40:57.070 --> 00:40:59.271
He was there until he passed.

00:40:59.913 --> 00:41:04.257
He was there every, you know, King Biscuit Festival on Sunday afterwards.

00:41:04.297 --> 00:41:05.418
And it would be like a jam.

00:41:05.838 --> 00:41:07.440
You know, Barb McGowan would run it.

00:41:08.001 --> 00:41:09.802
It was great to meet Pinetop.

00:41:09.882 --> 00:41:10.884
I've met so many.

00:41:10.903 --> 00:41:16.869
I mean, I was so lucky that most of these people were still alive when I started.

00:41:16.889 --> 00:41:18.972
I mean, most of them are gone now.

00:41:19.373 --> 00:41:20.253
I mean, who's left?

00:41:20.865 --> 00:41:21.806
Billy Boy Arnold.

00:41:22.068 --> 00:41:25.393
You know, I got to hang out with Lazy Lester in Clarksdale.

00:41:25.773 --> 00:41:27.094
He would come there a lot.

00:41:27.135 --> 00:41:29.378
And I played with him at Red's, Juke Joint.

00:41:29.759 --> 00:41:37.170
You know, there's so many people that I got to meet and play with because they're so approachable in the blues, you know.

00:41:37.190 --> 00:41:47.405
So, you know, I've been going down there for years, you know, to the festival, which the King Biscuit was like the biggest and first, I think, free festival in the country.

00:41:47.425 --> 00:41:47.646
Yeah.

00:41:47.777 --> 00:41:56.012
So on Sunday afternoon after the festival, the after party for Pinetop Perkins would be over at the Hobson Plantation.

00:41:56.414 --> 00:41:58.036
Attached to that was a shack up in.

00:41:58.476 --> 00:41:59.760
It's an old cotton plantation.

00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:07.393
So the cotton gin that they turned into little hotel rooms and then the shacks that the workers would stay in, they rent those out.

00:42:07.713 --> 00:42:10.478
They started growing and growing and building more shacks.

00:42:10.539 --> 00:42:13.664
And now they have shacks across the tracks and they call it Shacksdale.

00:42:14.164 --> 00:42:20.534
All the shacks that they built, they build them to look like the old ones using recycled materials so that it stays authentic.

00:42:20.695 --> 00:42:24.141
The vibe down there, I mean, there's so many people came through there.

00:42:24.161 --> 00:42:25.682
There's definitely a vibe.

00:42:25.862 --> 00:42:29.750
Anyway, once we started doing it there, we never went to a hotel again.

00:42:30.050 --> 00:42:34.016
except for in Ventura, where we would do one in the winter there at a hotel.

00:42:34.056 --> 00:42:34.976
It was great.

00:42:35.038 --> 00:42:38.702
And then in 2020, John retired from doing them down there.

00:42:38.782 --> 00:42:42.329
I think he's doing something up in California, but he retired doing that.

00:42:42.728 --> 00:42:47.476
And so I took it over with one of the other coaches, Brian Calway, aka Hash Brown.

00:42:47.737 --> 00:42:50.179
He was my guitar player when I lived in Texas or one of them.

00:42:50.601 --> 00:42:54.266
And we took it over and we still have the same coaches that we had before.

00:42:54.626 --> 00:42:59.034
We did our first one in May because we had to cancel three of them due to the pandemic.

00:42:59.329 --> 00:43:01.492
Our first one in May was a huge success.

00:43:01.994 --> 00:43:02.875
It was awesome.

00:43:02.994 --> 00:43:05.898
And our one in September is also full.

00:43:06.139 --> 00:43:07.661
And it's mostly a repeat.

00:43:07.882 --> 00:43:09.885
We haven't even really started advertising yet.

00:43:10.324 --> 00:43:12.047
It's all returnees.

00:43:12.487 --> 00:43:15.211
We have two different groups that want to come back every year.

00:43:15.492 --> 00:43:15.833
Great.

00:43:16.052 --> 00:43:18.516
And so the one in September, you say it's full, is it?

00:43:18.576 --> 00:43:19.677
People can't sign up?

00:43:20.065 --> 00:43:26.711
We could squeeze in a couple more people, but we want to keep it small so that people get enough attention.

00:43:26.972 --> 00:43:32.456
Gets too big when people, especially people that are shy, which I can relate to, will fall through the cracks.

00:43:32.876 --> 00:43:33.898
And we do a lot of jamming.

00:43:33.918 --> 00:43:37.460
Like I said, I call it mouths on, you know, we're a mouths on operation.

00:43:37.521 --> 00:43:40.844
It's like you get in there, we get those harps in your mouth like right away.

00:43:40.923 --> 00:43:43.485
And it's more of, you know, doing than lecturing.

00:43:43.585 --> 00:43:44.887
And it's a lot of jamming.

00:43:44.947 --> 00:44:17.702
And now that I play drums, well, we have Hash Brown, who's a guitar player, consummate blues guitar player knows every genre of blues and and then ralph carter plays bass you know he also teaches guitar lessons and bass lessons and songwriting and he does a songwriting workshop down there and so and now that i'm playing drums we can jam all day and all night long before we had to hire a drummer to come in and we still do that we have lee williams come in a couple of nights a week so that they can have a real drummer i'm good enough to keep a steady beat and back them up for practice

00:44:18.161 --> 00:44:22.012
it's it's not just harmonica you're teaching Like you said, there's a guitar bass singing.

00:44:22.273 --> 00:44:26.878
Yeah, there are opportunities for guitar lessons and bass lessons as well.

00:44:27.277 --> 00:44:29.659
Actually, keyboards, because Ralph plays keyboards too.

00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:33.284
But most of the people that come are harmonica players.

00:44:33.684 --> 00:44:38.507
But what happens sometimes is their spouse might be a guitar player, especially the women.

00:44:38.748 --> 00:44:43.873
And so they'll bring their spouse and their spouse can take lessons from one of our coaches.

00:44:44.172 --> 00:44:45.474
All of our coaches play guitar.

00:44:45.614 --> 00:44:47.115
You've got people coming from all around.

00:44:47.135 --> 00:44:49.577
I think someone comes from Australia even.

00:44:49.898 --> 00:44:50.559
Australia.

00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:58.396
One time we had someone come from Japan a lot of people from Australia actually this round in September we have a guy coming from Italy

00:44:59.010 --> 00:45:02.052
Tell me about the Charlie Musselwhite, the harmonica experience.

00:45:02.353 --> 00:45:04.034
Well, yeah, we had Charlie.

00:45:04.054 --> 00:45:10.780
So now that he lives back in Clarksdale, he came in and did a Q&A and we actually played behind him.

00:45:11.141 --> 00:45:14.362
You know, I actually got to play drums behind Charlie Musselwhite.

00:45:14.523 --> 00:45:15.804
But he came in.

00:45:15.905 --> 00:45:16.684
It was really great.

00:45:16.724 --> 00:45:18.726
You know, Charlie's got a million stories.

00:45:19.007 --> 00:45:24.512
I mean, and he's so approachable and so like personable, both him and his wife, Henry.

00:45:24.532 --> 00:45:27.213
I met them back in the early 90s.

00:45:27.695 --> 00:45:31.840
I've been friends with Charlie since we communicated over email for years.

00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:42.112
And then now we, you know, talk through Facebook messenger and whatnot, but I mean, he's always sending me stuff, whether it's music or, you know, philosophical stuff too.

00:45:42.172 --> 00:45:43.333
He's a pretty deep guy.

00:45:43.353 --> 00:45:52.925
I really love teaching and, and the teaching has made me a better player because it made me stop and think about what I'm doing.

00:45:53.378 --> 00:45:55.900
And so I owe a lot to my students.

00:45:56.561 --> 00:46:03.811
It's such a rewarding experience, especially when you teach someone something and they get it.

00:46:04.253 --> 00:46:08.659
And then it's such a great experience for them and for you.

00:46:09.259 --> 00:46:12.684
So I just find teaching extremely rewarding.

00:46:28.610 --> 00:46:30.672
soaking up that Mississippi vibe, as you say.

00:46:30.692 --> 00:46:35.436
There's some great photos on your website which really shows that Mississippi scene.

00:46:35.536 --> 00:46:35.936
It is.

00:46:36.177 --> 00:46:36.976
It's a vibe.

00:46:37.257 --> 00:46:38.318
A lot of the stuff is gone.

00:46:38.398 --> 00:46:43.503
I can remember, I remember how it was back in the late 80s, early 90s.

00:46:43.802 --> 00:46:45.043
It was way different.

00:46:45.204 --> 00:46:46.686
It's really built up now.

00:46:46.865 --> 00:46:50.289
I mean, as far as, you know, having a blues tourist attraction.

00:46:50.509 --> 00:46:52.530
They've got the Blues Trail, which is really cool.

00:46:52.570 --> 00:46:55.672
All these markers of where people were born and died.

00:46:56.173 --> 00:46:57.635
Just the whole region.

00:46:57.655 --> 00:46:58.576
That's the thing, too.

00:46:58.576 --> 00:47:44.632
about blues that i love is that you know when i hear someone say oh i don't i don't like the blues it's boring or it's just it's sad or it's slow no the reason the blues was created was to bring joy and to make people happy and singing in the fields being able to express themselves the thing that i love love love about the blues is that it's so different it's endless the different genres but because of the regions that it came up from so texas blues sounds different than louisiana blues and then there's pete the piedmont sound and then there's chicago blues you know west coast swing and it's such a vast medium i love swing because i i was really a dancer before i was a musician um i did tap dancing and ballet and I really gravitate towards the groove, especially in blues.

00:47:44.793 --> 00:47:45.793
It's all about the groove.

00:47:45.994 --> 00:47:51.920
Then the other totally opposite end of the spectrum is the North Mississippi style, the one chord groove.

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:56.523
Like when I was first starting out, I loved Howlin' Wolf and I loved playing his harmonica.

00:48:08.153 --> 00:48:10.556
I think it was underrated as a harmonica player.

00:48:10.576 --> 00:48:17.170
You know, I mean, His voice was such a presence and such great tone, and that translated into his harmonica playing.

00:48:17.471 --> 00:48:17.811
Definitely.

00:48:17.831 --> 00:48:21.619
That drive to the whole band and the harmonica, that doesn't have a real drive.

00:48:21.860 --> 00:48:26.009
Yeah, that great vibrato and just that deep, rich tone.

00:48:26.402 --> 00:48:28.503
I really gravitated towards him.

00:48:28.543 --> 00:48:31.726
And the juke joint, the one chord groove.

00:48:31.907 --> 00:48:37.351
I remember seeing the movie Deep Blues and thinking, I would really love to go to a juke joint like that.

00:48:37.652 --> 00:48:39.213
And then the opportunity came.

00:48:39.432 --> 00:48:42.016
I was in Memphis playing at the Black Diamond Club.

00:48:42.416 --> 00:48:44.797
I didn't have an amp because I flew down there.

00:48:44.818 --> 00:48:47.139
I was bummed that I was going to play through the PA.

00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.302
And the opening act was Jason Ritchie.

00:48:49.601 --> 00:48:51.403
And he had a bassman up on stage.

00:48:51.844 --> 00:48:54.646
I walked up to him after his set and I introduced myself.

00:48:54.726 --> 00:48:56.367
And he said, I know who you are.

00:48:56.367 --> 00:48:57.489
I'm from Maine.

00:48:57.789 --> 00:49:00.112
I used to go see your band all the time at the Big Easy.

00:49:00.152 --> 00:49:01.273
I'm a big fan.

00:49:01.492 --> 00:49:03.476
And I looked at him, I was like, you're a big fan of me.

00:49:03.635 --> 00:49:06.699
He was only 18 years old and he was already smoking hot.

00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:08.221
I said, oh, cool.

00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:08.621
Thanks.

00:49:08.721 --> 00:49:11.704
And I said, so would you mind if I used your amp?

00:49:12.284 --> 00:49:14.527
And then he, of course, let me use his amp and it was great.

00:49:14.567 --> 00:49:17.811
And then afterwards we were talking, he said to me, well, when are you leaving?

00:49:17.851 --> 00:49:19.231
And I said, oh, tomorrow morning.

00:49:19.413 --> 00:49:20.152
He said, oh, too bad.

00:49:20.172 --> 00:49:22.775
I would have taken you down to Junior Kimbrough's juke joint.

00:49:22.896 --> 00:49:24.137
And I was like, what?

00:49:24.518 --> 00:49:25.699
I thought that was in Mississippi.

00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:27.782
He goes, oh yeah, but It's only 45 minutes from here.

00:49:27.842 --> 00:49:28.682
It's right over the line.

00:49:28.983 --> 00:49:30.324
And I was like, hold on a minute.

00:49:30.364 --> 00:49:31.525
This was before cell phones.

00:49:31.646 --> 00:49:36.010
I walked out to the front of the club and got on the pay phone, called the airline.

00:49:36.130 --> 00:49:37.331
How much to change my ticket?

00:49:37.351 --> 00:49:38.373
$50.

00:49:38.952 --> 00:49:39.793
Okay, do it.

00:49:40.074 --> 00:49:41.476
I didn't even know where I was going to stay.

00:49:41.496 --> 00:49:42.237
I didn't know what I was going to do.

00:49:42.257 --> 00:49:43.739
I ended up sleeping in Jason's van.

00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:46.260
We went to Junior Kimbrough's the next night.

00:49:46.581 --> 00:49:49.905
And oh my God, it was experience of a lifetime.

00:49:49.925 --> 00:49:52.128
I went back several times afterwards.

00:49:52.407 --> 00:49:56.271
Whenever I would tour down South, I would always have to do a pilgrimage to Kimbrough's.

00:49:56.271 --> 00:49:56.753
place.

00:49:57.152 --> 00:49:58.134
And that was the thing too.

00:49:58.293 --> 00:50:05.822
One chord drone, 20 minutes on the same song and people dancing in the zone, you know, just this hypnotic groove.

00:50:06.081 --> 00:50:07.304
I just love that.

00:50:07.704 --> 00:50:12.148
That's kind of what I, my blues got me song is kind of like what I was going for there.

00:50:12.929 --> 00:50:13.110
Yeah.

00:50:13.150 --> 00:50:13.329
Yeah.

00:50:13.369 --> 00:50:14.210
That definitely has that.

00:50:14.251 --> 00:50:14.391
Yeah.

00:50:14.431 --> 00:50:23.280
So, but then that led me back to the other experience that was really great was the house of blues in Cambridge, the original house of blues, which was two miles from my house where I grew up.

00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:25.844
I used to go there all the time and I played there a lot.

00:50:25.864 --> 00:50:27.726
They, you know, They had local bands playing there.

00:50:28.005 --> 00:50:32.391
I also got to go for free anytime I wanted because I played there.

00:50:32.710 --> 00:50:34.954
I get to go up in the green room and meet the musicians.

00:50:35.034 --> 00:50:38.438
So I got to meet and play with so many musicians.

00:50:38.858 --> 00:50:39.579
What an experience.

00:50:39.619 --> 00:50:48.349
And when RL came to town, he would sell out because he put out that hip hop record because of his grandson, Cedric.

00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:48.829
Yeah.

00:50:49.025 --> 00:50:51.367
Yeah,

00:50:51.929 --> 00:51:04.018
so this is Aurel Burnside.

00:51:18.992 --> 00:51:20.152
I met R.L.

00:51:20.494 --> 00:51:23.896
I had all these pictures from when he went to Junior Kimbrough's place and R.L.

00:51:23.936 --> 00:51:39.873
wasn't there that night neither was Junior but all the grandsons and showed him the pictures and he's looking at my photo album he's going that's my sister that's my aunt that's my nephew he says yeah so you so you blow the harp and I was like yeah and he goes you want to come sit in and I was like yes so I every time R.L.

00:51:39.914 --> 00:51:53.371
would come he would get me up and I would play songs with him Johnny Copeland would do the same thing you know I opened for him a bunch and was really good friends with him I met all these people people and they were so kind and friendly and willing to let me sit in and

00:51:53.954 --> 00:52:00.800
A question I ask each time, Sherry, obviously you do a lot of teaching.

00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:01.000
So

00:52:01.681 --> 00:52:22.679
if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:24.521
every day.

00:52:24.740 --> 00:52:28.903
So, and what happens is if you, if you pick it up for 10 minutes, it's going to go longer.

00:52:28.983 --> 00:52:31.467
I can't, I don't think I've ever practiced for 10 minutes.

00:52:31.746 --> 00:52:34.108
Once you get started, it's going to keep happening.

00:52:34.168 --> 00:52:47.079
So, but if I was absolutely limited and I couldn't, you know, for me, for myself, maybe I would tackle a lick that I was having problems with phrasing and just sit there for 10 minutes and play the same, like over and over and over and over and over again until I get it.

00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:51.403
And gear wise then, well, I believe you're a Horner and Dorsey.

00:52:51.664 --> 00:52:51.923
Yes,

00:52:52.364 --> 00:52:52.684
I am.

00:52:52.905 --> 00:52:53.606
Playing Marine bands.

00:52:53.985 --> 00:52:56.170
I play marine bands exclusively.

00:52:56.811 --> 00:52:57.773
Yeah, right out of the box.

00:52:58.454 --> 00:52:59.777
Which sort of marine bands do you like?

00:52:59.956 --> 00:53:00.958
Just the regular ones.

00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:03.322
I mean, I have a few crossovers.

00:53:03.684 --> 00:53:05.166
And what about chromatic?

00:53:05.327 --> 00:53:05.407
I

00:53:05.467 --> 00:53:07.411
have a Super 64.

00:53:07.550 --> 00:53:10.195
Okay, so the 16 hole, yeah.

00:53:11.097 --> 00:53:12.920
Yeah, I mean, I have some of the small ones.

00:53:13.121 --> 00:53:13.762
I like the big ones.

00:53:13.782 --> 00:53:15.246
Do you play any different tunings?

00:53:15.713 --> 00:53:20.851
No, I have one harp that's got a note tuned that was good for one song.

00:53:21.052 --> 00:53:22.115
Years ago, I had it.

00:53:22.277 --> 00:53:23.983
Somebody made it and I can't remember what it was

00:53:24.023 --> 00:53:24.204
now.

00:53:24.244 --> 00:53:25.628
Different positions do you play?

00:53:25.929 --> 00:53:28.036
You mean the cross harp or other positions?

00:53:28.610 --> 00:53:30.652
I play second and third mostly.

00:53:30.692 --> 00:53:36.217
First position once in a while, just the blues playing the bottom end and the blow bands on the top end.

00:53:36.516 --> 00:53:42.981
And of course, if I play a first position melody, like my guitar player does this Elizabeth Cotton tune, Freight Train.

00:53:43.282 --> 00:53:47.947
So I play the melody on that in first, and it lays out perfectly on the harp.

00:53:48.027 --> 00:53:53.472
So I play that, and then when it comes to my solo, it's in C, so I pick up an F harp and play second.

00:53:53.731 --> 00:53:54.192
Yeah, yeah.

00:53:54.251 --> 00:53:57.295
Quite often it works out that first position is good for melodies, doesn't it?

00:53:57.614 --> 00:53:57.974
Yes.

00:53:58.576 --> 00:54:01.699
Well, I

00:54:02.661 --> 00:54:06.146
do both, but I started out puckering for the first 10 years.

00:54:06.226 --> 00:54:08.369
I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to tongue block.

00:54:08.509 --> 00:54:13.155
Then I finally found it, figured it out through tongue slapping, eventually tongue blocking.

00:54:13.235 --> 00:54:14.577
And now I do both.

00:54:15.177 --> 00:54:16.099
I meld them together.

00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:20.706
I like both because I think you get a different, it's like more three-dimensional.

00:54:21.217 --> 00:54:22.983
rather than one sound.

00:54:23.003 --> 00:54:25.630
I feel like I can get more sounds when I do both.

00:54:25.869 --> 00:54:31.465
And amplifier wise, did you give Jason Ritchie's bassman back or what amplifier do you like to use?

00:54:31.826 --> 00:54:34.472
Oh, yeah, I just use that on the gig.

00:54:34.733 --> 00:54:35.836
No, I have a bassman.

00:54:36.289 --> 00:54:43.643
I have a bassman that I changed, you know, the tubes because it's a reissue, but it's an early one from the early 90s.

00:54:43.902 --> 00:54:47.608
But what happened one time when I was in Texas was it kept cutting out.

00:54:48.070 --> 00:54:51.836
I brought it to this guy that used to build Buffalo amps.

00:54:52.538 --> 00:54:54.201
He was a tech at Texas Instruments.

00:54:54.260 --> 00:54:54.621
And anyway...

00:54:55.137 --> 00:54:59.141
Long story short, he worked on my amp and it kept not exhibiting when he had it.

00:54:59.161 --> 00:55:01.463
And I'd get it back and then it would mess up on stage again.

00:55:01.744 --> 00:55:06.927
So one day he just ripped out the guts and did a point to point, like a 59 bassman.

00:55:07.268 --> 00:55:09.309
And so that's pretty much what I have.

00:55:09.329 --> 00:55:10.891
Do you have a small amp as well or just?

00:55:11.371 --> 00:55:14.315
I have a harp train that I got from Lone Wolf.

00:55:14.614 --> 00:55:15.936
I mean, I use it for practice.

00:55:16.356 --> 00:55:16.996
Not really.

00:55:17.056 --> 00:55:18.077
I don't practice for the amp.

00:55:18.297 --> 00:55:23.041
I'm so attached to my bassman that it's really hard for me to use anything else when I gig.

00:55:23.322 --> 00:55:24.342
I've tried other amps.

00:55:24.824 --> 00:55:25.103
What happened?

00:55:25.103 --> 00:55:28.793
And what happens is I'll have my basement with me and I'll end up going back into the basement.

00:55:28.952 --> 00:55:30.416
And what about microphones?

00:55:31.018 --> 00:55:33.463
I have the same mic I've been using for years and years.

00:55:33.543 --> 00:55:34.867
It's an astatic shell.

00:55:35.288 --> 00:55:36.210
It's not a crystal.

00:55:36.431 --> 00:55:40.219
I think it's either a controlled reluctance or controlled magnetic.

00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:41.262
It's one of those two.

00:55:41.302 --> 00:55:42.625
And do you use any effects?

00:55:43.010 --> 00:55:43.490
No.

00:55:43.891 --> 00:55:46.255
Well, then just final question and just about your future plan.

00:55:46.275 --> 00:55:49.740
Obviously, we know you're already committed to release an album in next year.

00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.523
So any other future plans coming up?

00:55:51.583 --> 00:55:52.786
You're playing this duo as well.

00:55:52.806 --> 00:55:52.965
Yeah.

00:55:53.226 --> 00:55:53.507
Yeah.

00:55:53.688 --> 00:55:57.373
I mean, I've got gigs booked and we're doing the camp in September.

00:55:57.414 --> 00:56:04.706
When I go down there, I'm actually playing at the Niagara Falls Blues Festival with Mud Morganfield.

00:56:04.726 --> 00:56:04.925
Oh, yeah.

00:56:05.346 --> 00:56:11.291
And then after that, I drive down to halfway to Memphis is Cincinnati.

00:56:11.351 --> 00:56:14.034
And a friend of mine is having me on a gig there.

00:56:14.074 --> 00:56:22.019
And then I drive to Memphis, pick up a few of the people that are coming to the camp and drive down to the camp and do the camp for five days.

00:56:22.101 --> 00:56:25.322
And then my brother retired and moved to Biloxi.

00:56:25.342 --> 00:56:27.364
So he's like me, he hates the cold.

00:56:27.826 --> 00:56:29.507
And so I go visit him for a while.

00:56:29.547 --> 00:56:31.228
And then he's an hour and a half from New Orleans.

00:56:31.568 --> 00:56:34.710
So my friend Johnny Mastro hooks me up with some gigs in New Orleans.

00:56:34.771 --> 00:56:53.780
So I'll be doing that probably being a guest with his band you know I'm just gigging I mean I moved back to New England and I lived in Texas for eight years and I gigged a lot down there the thing about New England well it's my home it's where I'm from and it's where I feel comfortable I missed my friends and family and you know so I'm back

00:56:53.981 --> 00:56:59.588
so thanks so much Cheryl Arena for joining us today sounds like you're just having a great time playing music all around there

00:57:00.590 --> 00:57:02.574
yes I love music it's my life

00:57:03.585 --> 00:57:15.563
Thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast and be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas.

00:57:16.204 --> 00:57:18.108
Thanks so much to Cheryl for joining me today.

00:57:18.128 --> 00:57:20.311
What a ball she's having through music.

00:57:20.873 --> 00:57:24.177
Showing the way for us all to just go out and enjoy the music as much as we can.

00:57:24.865 --> 00:57:32.626
And again, thanks everyone for listening and please do check out the website at harmonicahappyhour.com and please check out the Spotify playlist as well.

00:57:32.646 --> 00:57:34.329
It's linked from the website.

00:57:34.690 --> 00:57:40.224
And now it's just over to Cheryl to play us out with her Blues Got Me.