March 9, 2023

Ben Bouman interview

Ben Bouman joins me on episode 81. Ben is a Dutch blues player who always strives for originality in his playing, partly inspired by his admiration for the playing of Paul deLay. Ben’s current band is The Marble Tones, who took their name from the amplifier company, with Ben helping develop their range of harmonica amps. Ben also helped Seydel prototype their steel reeds before they released them some fifteen years ago, and he tells us all about polishing and profiling steel reeds, his own bu...

Ben Bouman joins me on episode 81.

Ben is a Dutch blues player who always strives for originality in his playing, partly inspired by his admiration for the playing of Paul deLay. Ben’s current band is The Marble Tones, who took their name from the amplifier company, with Ben helping develop their range of harmonica amps.
Ben also helped Seydel prototype their steel reeds before they released them some fifteen years ago, and he tells us all about polishing and profiling steel reeds, his own business selling customised Seydel harmonicas, and how he helped persuade Seydel in moving over to Compromised Just Tuning.
The Harpgame Is On! is the name of Ben’s self-produced album and he regularly posts YouTube videos, including his recent tuition videos on different harmonica themes.

Links:

Ben’s website:
https://www.benboumanharmonicas.nl

Webshop to buy Ben Bouman custom harmonicas:
https://www.benboumanharmonicas.nl/rapidcartpro/index.php?catalog/all/-/date/1

Marble amplifiers:
https://www.marble-amps.com/

Viola Barends:
https://www.violaharmonica.com/

Seydel festival and harmonica competition:
https://mundharmonika-live.de
https://www.seydel1847.de/seydelopen-registration

Hohner CBH chromatic:
https://chromhistory.blog/2019/05/22/cbh-2012-2016/

Videos:

Paul deLay Harmonica Party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWepAFBqsN4

Marble Tones band videos:
https://www.youtube.com/@BluesMoose/search?query=marbletones

Ben's Tone in a cup:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063463839653

Viola Barends harmonica orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ7sNeZUAAI

Ben playing Watermelon Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnEbikuq7sI

Ben playing blues chromatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNSa7VdKFXw

Ben gear demo recording, including Pignose amp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFrUNKpMx8

The Monkey Speaks His Mind with The Marble Tones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d4HbjTn4EI

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at

Support the show

01:28 - Ben lives in Eindhoven in the south of the Netherlands

01:52 - Started playing harmonica when he picked up a chromatic which his father used to play in a harmonica ensemble

02:06 - Played chromatic for a few years before moving over to diatonic, with first harmonica a Hohner Blues Harp and started buying blues records

02:33 - Harmonica ensembles were popular in Netherlands in father’s time due to low cost of harmonicas versus other instruments

03:06 - Blues artists who influenced Ben and sold all blues records 25 years ago

04:01 - Ben was a big fan of Paul deLay, liking his originality

05:34 - Favourite recordings of Paul deLay

06:49 - Found some excellent live recordings of Paul deLay from YouTube, and the joy he shows when playing

07:53 - Still working on the Paul deLay recordings

08:11 - Paul deLay probably developed his original approach to playing the harmonica by listening to jazz horn players, or like a guitar player

08:54 - Ben also strives to have an original sound, and not play standard harmonica licks

09:20 - How Paul deLay influence Ben’s playing

09:55 - Paul deLay died in 2007. He was also a great singer, writer, arranger and bandleader

10:46 - Likes Paul deLay live recordings best

11:39 - First diatonic Ben purchased was a Hohner Blues harp

12:10 - Charlie Musselwhite was another big inspiration and discovering different harmonica positions

12:53 - Played a little saxophone as an adult but the noise upset the neighbours

13:11 - Played clarinet as a child for a few months but gave that up when teacher said not to play among with the radio

13:36 - Joined first band age 16 or 17, more rock than blues, and then another band with brother

14:39 - Current band is The Marble Tones

15:23 - Marble Tone is the name of an amp, which is where the band got it’s name

16:26 - Ben helped develop the prototype of the Marble Amp for harmonica

17:08 - The range of Marble Amps available for harmonica

18:05 - Ben uses the Marble Amps Harpwood mainly when gigging

18:25 - Ben had an amp with a 15 inch speaker designed for James Harman

18:43 - Likes to turn amp loud as possible before feedback so can play harmonica gently, to draw out the subtleties of the instrument

19:16 - Uses the Marble Max, the smallest amp in their range, for smaller gigs

19:57 - Other amps that Ben uses, including a Masco amp, and solid state Quilter Microblock 45

20:42 - How you play the harmonica and build your tone is more important than the amp

21:14 - Ben released a self-produced album called The Harpgame Is On!

22:51 - Likes to regularly record licks and ideas at home

23:34 - Uses Rode NT1A modified large condenser microphone for home recordings

23:51 - Also plays in a blues duo called Blue Bridge and value of having a harmonica playing guitar accompanist

25:46 - Puts a lot of videos out on YouTube of mostly improvised recordings

26:15 - Recently released a series of YouTube tuition videos

26:50 - Concept of ‘vocal playing’ is theme 24 from YouTube tuition videos

27:37 - No longer sings in bands as doesn’t feel his singing is strong enough

28:03 - Ben has a business selling customised Seydel Harmonicas

28:10 - Ben helped Seydel’s engineer, Karl Pucholt, develop the companies steel reeds

29:31 - Bertram Becher asked Ben to test some prototype harmonicas, which had steel reeds

30:55 - What does Ben like about steel reeds

31:34 - Ben visited the Seydel factory weekly to test how good the new steel reeds were for customisation work

32:16 - Steel reeds are good to work with, and more elastic than brass

33:05 - Need to work harder to remove material when tuning steel reeds

33:47 - Polishing the steel reeds

34:49 - Ben also changes the shape / profile of the reeds

35:21 - Ben sells customised Seydel Harmonicas, with three levels of customisation applied

36:33 - Cost of Ben’s customised Seydel’s isn’t much more than standard price

37:25 - Sets harmonicas up for overblows, but only uses overblows a little himself, not really liking the sound of them

38:05 - Offers free 30 minute lessons to anyone who buys one of his custom harmonicas

38:41 - Ben’s partner is Viola Barends, who runs harmonica camps and is especially strong on harmonica ensemble work due to her musical background

40:27 - Ben is involved in the Seydel Mundharmonika festival, which runs every year in Klingenthal, Germany

41:45 - 10 minute question

42:18 - Teaching technique

42:58 - Focuses on improvisation rather than melodies

43:52 - Plays a little chromatic

44:04 - CBH chromatic from Chamber Huang is favourite for tone

45:08 - Tone and groove are the main things for Ben

45:19 - Does some set-up of Seydel chromatics and would like to develop customisation of chromatics

46:25 - Diatonic of choice is own custom Seydels

46:37 - Loves the full range of diatonic harps, from low diatonics to making the F harp sound more mellow

48:06 - Different tunings

48:59 - Has the ability to remember licks he played years before

49:32 - Persuaded Seydel to move from Just Intonation to Compromised Just Tuning

51:12 - Initially lip pursued and then discovered tongue blocking when the internet first arrived in Holland

52:57 - Likes to use a Pignose amp for home recordings, inspired by Frank Zappa

54:20 - Microphone: likes a brush crystal

55:17 - Likes to use effects sometimes, and what’s on pedal board

57:22 - Plans to develop a harmonica with replaceable screwed on reeds

WEBVTT

00:00:00.066 --> 00:00:01.747
Ben Bauman joins me on episode 81.

00:00:02.528 --> 00:00:09.577
Ben is a Dutch blues player who always strives for originality in his playing, partly inspired by his admiration for the playing of Paul Delay.

00:00:09.997 --> 00:00:16.986
Ben's current band is the Marble Tones, who took their name from the Amplifier Company, with Ben helping develop their range of harmonica amps.

00:00:17.507 --> 00:00:22.814
Ben also helped Seidel prototype their steel reeds before they released them some 15 years ago.

00:00:23.106 --> 00:00:33.723
and he tells us all about polishing and profiling steel reeds, his own business selling customised Seidel harmonicas, and how he helped persuade Seidel in moving over to compromise just tuning.

00:00:34.183 --> 00:00:43.319
The harp game he's on is the name of Ben's self-produced album, and he regularly posts YouTube videos, including his recent tuition videos on different harmonica themes.

00:00:44.621 --> 00:00:47.085
This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas.

00:00:47.506 --> 00:00:56.814
Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world, at www.zeidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zeidel Harmonicas.

00:01:24.897 --> 00:01:26.704
Hello, Ben Bauman, and welcome to the podcast.

00:01:27.186 --> 00:01:27.668
Hi, Neil.

00:01:27.748 --> 00:01:29.013
Thanks for inviting me.

00:01:29.034 --> 00:01:32.789
So you're speaking to us from Eindhoven in the south of the Netherlands.

00:01:33.090 --> 00:01:35.614
Yeah, mid-South Netherlands, close to Belgium.

00:01:36.036 --> 00:01:38.400
What's the music like around there and the harmonica scene?

00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:39.522
What got you into the harmonica?

00:01:39.783 --> 00:01:43.028
Well, the scene at the moment is like everywhere else, I think.

00:01:43.730 --> 00:01:47.218
Blues is not the main interest for most people.

00:01:47.257 --> 00:01:51.807
But when I was younger, I listened to blues only, in fact.

00:01:51.846 --> 00:01:55.474
But how it started was when I picked up a chromatic harmonica.

00:01:55.778 --> 00:02:33.032
that was lying at home for my father who was supposed to be the harmonica orchestra but I've never seen or heard him do that and he died when I was 14 so we didn't get time to play but I played the chromatic a few years and I lost a little interest because I didn't know how it worked the chromatic harmonica then I went to a local shop and I just coincidence I think I saw this blues harp and I just bought it because I wanted something more simple it looks simple to me so that's why I bought it and from there I just started buying records in the local record shop luckily they had very good selection of blues records and that's gotten really going

00:02:33.472 --> 00:02:43.182
just picking up on what you're saying there about your father playing in a harmonica orchestra then so was that something which was quite common in the Netherlands back then were there quite a lot of orchestras around

00:02:43.383 --> 00:03:04.866
yeah I was told that the main reason was that in a small village the people didn't have the money to buy all the instruments that you need for a real orchestra like saxophones and trumpets and all this stuff so maybe it's was like a poor man's orchestra and they had bass harmonicas and chords and diatonics and chromatics as well but the main reason at least that's really what I was

00:03:04.925 --> 00:03:10.872
told was money So what sort of influences did you have on the early blues records the usual classic blues guys?

00:03:11.332 --> 00:03:11.552
Well

00:03:12.093 --> 00:04:01.245
all the guys from that time whatever I could buy I bought it because I didn't have a clue who was doing what on harmonica and it all sounded nice to me so I just bought whatever was available in the shop and I was stupid enough 25 years ago I sold all my blues records and I had some rare ones but I needed some money at the time and a friend of mine wanted to buy everything I had but if I look back now I would love to have them now but the big names Little Walter Walter Horton Sonny Boy and some more unknown plays but I really can't remember all the names from that time You can't find these albums on streaming anymore Could be but I would love to have a record player now and and the old records again, because it's maybe a hype, but everybody's now buying records.

00:04:01.286 --> 00:04:01.485
So

00:04:01.786 --> 00:04:04.449
I know someone that you're a big fan of, it's Paul DeLay.

00:04:04.489 --> 00:04:17.961
So when did you start getting into him?

00:04:18.221 --> 00:04:22.105
The first time I heard from him was, I think, 20 years ago.

00:04:22.529 --> 00:04:31.237
I had a student coming from Italy one week to Holland to study with me because he liked my tone and my way of playing.

00:04:31.637 --> 00:04:34.319
And while he was there, he was talking about Paul Delay.

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And all of a sudden, when I started to listen to Paul Delay, I realized he was the one I was always looking for because I loved all the old players, but it never felt good to me when I had to play songs that they played because I never wanted to sound like someone else.

00:04:51.894 --> 00:04:53.117
I never wanted to copy songs.

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I listened to them.

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I analyzed what I heard.

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I tried it on the blues harp.

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And then I did my own thing again.

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And when I read about Paul Delay, I read his biography.

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And one of his things that he said was, I don't want to be and sound like anyone else.

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And that really got me thinking.

00:05:10.654 --> 00:05:13.338
And from there, I started listening to Paul Delay more and more.

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And as a result, my playing, I won't say it changed, but it felt better to me because I didn't think anymore about techniques that I hear from other players.

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I was just doing things that I liked most.

00:05:26.192 --> 00:05:28.413
That's maybe the biggest influence from Paul Delay.

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So what age were you when you discovered Paul Delay or how long ago was it?

00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:33.920
20 years ago, I think.

00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:37.163
Any particular of his songs that grabbed you initially or an album?

00:05:37.403 --> 00:05:38.545
Well, not at the time.

00:05:38.584 --> 00:05:42.329
This guy from Italy who was my player sent me a few mp3s.

00:05:42.348 --> 00:05:46.273
I had two or three songs that I analysed and I listened a lot to.

00:05:46.733 --> 00:06:09.259
I won't say I forgot about it, but I was so focused by these songs and his way of playing and then I it triggered me to practice more and more the things that I wanted to play, that I still listened to the few songs, and because they were so complicated to my ears, and it took me quite some years to go back to his recordings and start listening again.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

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Sometimes I listened a lot to Paul DeLay, these few songs that I had.

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Sometimes I forgot about it, I did my own things.

00:06:30.548 --> 00:06:34.641
But slowly it progressed to five, six years ago when I started...

00:06:34.913 --> 00:06:39.862
looking on YouTube what was available from Paul Delay, and I tried to find everything from him.

00:06:39.983 --> 00:06:49.079
And I'm still analyzing and listening because I have like 10, 15 favorite songs now, but I could name 60, 70 songs that I really like from Paul Delay.

00:06:49.178 --> 00:06:51.283
You have a batch of live recordings of his, yeah?

00:06:51.463 --> 00:06:55.089
Yeah, on YouTube, you can find so many live recordings from him.

00:06:55.362 --> 00:07:02.951
some bootlegs as well but the the thing that triggered me most was there's a video on on youtube based on a harmonica party

00:07:08.817 --> 00:07:09.158
so

00:07:21.122 --> 00:07:24.564
And he's doing a show like 30 minutes with just guitar and bass.

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And he's just sitting there and just enjoying what he's doing.

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He's smiling and talking to the people and smiling in between.

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And it's just big fun and so complicated what he's doing.

00:07:37.735 --> 00:07:39.577
But you can really see his face.

00:07:39.658 --> 00:07:42.461
He's laughing every second when he's playing.

00:07:42.740 --> 00:07:45.262
I've seen this video maybe 10, 15 times.

00:07:45.483 --> 00:07:49.627
I took the sound of it because it was mono only on the left side.

00:07:49.646 --> 00:07:50.947
It was a very bad recording.

00:07:51.007 --> 00:08:00.017
So I remastered it, put it on stereo and I'm still listening to these songs and not really practicing but analyzing in my head when he's playing what is he doing.

00:08:00.338 --> 00:08:10.588
Sometimes I slow down to have a better feel of what he's doing but his timing and his groove and his tone are so different from what anyone else is doing.

00:08:10.709 --> 00:08:12.009
Do you know where he got this from?

00:08:12.029 --> 00:08:13.692
How did he develop his sound?

00:08:13.752 --> 00:08:15.434
Obviously you've read his biography.

00:08:15.894 --> 00:08:37.437
He doesn't talk about who or what influenced him but I can hear when he's playing chromatic he listens to jazz players he listened to saxophone players but he also sometimes plays things that fit more like a guitar player like the way he's playing a fast lick it's more like he's playing a jazz chord very fast on the harmonica I think he's influenced by jazz players must be

00:08:37.638 --> 00:08:53.129
Yeah and obviously a lot of harmonica players blues players obviously influenced by the classic harmonica players and that's great we've all got to listen to them but yeah I think as we're getting more and more harmonica players now more diverse you know there is that difference in approach isn't there so I guess That sounds like something you'd encourage.

00:08:53.730 --> 00:09:07.201
Yeah, but one of the things that I, this is what I heard about when I played 20, 30 years in Holland in different blues bands, that some people told me that I didn't sound very traditional.

00:09:07.741 --> 00:09:13.486
I never knew what is traditional, in their opinion, and how I should play to sound traditional.

00:09:13.886 --> 00:09:20.692
And I just kept on playing what I liked most, and I didn't really care if people said I wasn't playing traditional.

00:09:20.913 --> 00:09:23.696
But did you sort of change your approach, you know, after you started listening?

00:09:23.696 --> 00:09:25.697
to Paul Delay obviously only 20 years ago.

00:09:25.977 --> 00:09:27.080
I always felt pretty

00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:43.937
comfortable but maybe 1% in my head was saying why do not play traditional things like people maybe like better but when I was thinking this 10 seconds later I just started playing my own things again but there was always this little voice in my head that maybe bothered me a little.

00:09:44.437 --> 00:09:54.971
When I listened to Paul Delay and started analysing and thinking about it this voice disappeared for some reason and I just kept on doing what I was doing and trying to to be better in what

00:09:55.010 --> 00:09:55.250
I did.

00:09:55.291 --> 00:09:56.253
Sure, yeah.

00:09:56.373 --> 00:09:59.559
And of course, Paul DeLay sadly died in 2007 now.

00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:01.864
Come on!

00:10:14.177 --> 00:10:17.404
He's not only a good harmonica player, he has a great voice.

00:10:17.445 --> 00:10:21.854
He's arranging songs, he's writing songs, lyrics.

00:10:21.913 --> 00:10:29.921
He's doing everything to keep a band going and there's a unique combination of someone can do this all at the same time.

00:10:30.341 --> 00:10:31.663
To me, that's incredible.

00:10:31.965 --> 00:10:35.431
When I listen to him, I really hear he's guiding the whole band.

00:10:35.650 --> 00:10:39.418
There's quite some several live recordings from him.

00:10:39.618 --> 00:10:44.966
And when you listen to a live recording, you can almost see him like conducting the band when

00:10:45.187 --> 00:10:45.687
they're playing.

00:10:46.129 --> 00:10:46.328
Yeah.

00:10:46.649 --> 00:10:48.613
So you obviously appreciate his live recordings most.

00:10:48.633 --> 00:10:53.461
Is there an album or, like you say, those YouTube videos of a harmonica party or anything else?

00:10:53.985 --> 00:11:01.034
Yeah, the studio recordings are also nice arrangements, but it doesn't have this specific feel.

00:11:01.075 --> 00:11:09.547
When he's playing live, he's just laughing and smiling and doing weird stuff and still enjoying it and people respond to what he's doing.

00:11:09.586 --> 00:11:14.913
You can see he's really a crowd pleaser in a positive way.

00:11:20.501 --> 00:11:27.289
piano plays softly Okay,

00:11:35.422 --> 00:11:38.466
so you're going back to your, you know, your harmonica journey then.

00:11:38.506 --> 00:11:42.293
So what was the first harmonica that you purchased, the first diatonic?

00:11:42.472 --> 00:11:42.873
I'm pretty

00:11:42.933 --> 00:11:44.796
sure it was the Honour Blues harp.

00:11:45.197 --> 00:11:45.537
I think...

00:11:46.081 --> 00:11:48.046
That's the only one that was available in the store.

00:11:48.145 --> 00:11:51.493
And there was a small booklet with it, like five, six pages.

00:11:51.813 --> 00:11:54.418
That's the only thing that I could find about harmonica playing.

00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:57.885
This was around 1966, 1967 or so.

00:11:58.126 --> 00:12:01.474
So no internet, no books, no videos, no CDs, nothing.

00:12:01.826 --> 00:12:03.308
And so how did you go about learning then?

00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:10.201
Yeah, just listening to records and even slowing down the records with my thumb to be able to hear what was going on.

00:12:11.124 --> 00:12:16.615
Maybe the biggest change in my playing came when I listened to Charlie Musselwhite.

00:12:17.014 --> 00:12:21.003
He had the recording, the harmonica according to Charlie Musselwhite, I think it's called.

00:12:21.283 --> 00:12:22.346
And there was one song...

00:12:22.721 --> 00:12:25.847
And it has a saxophone and harmonica solo on it.

00:12:26.087 --> 00:12:27.291
And I tried to play along with it.

00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:33.581
And it took me two days to find out it was not in what we now call second position cross harp.

00:12:33.642 --> 00:12:36.368
It was in a different key harmonica that he played.

00:12:36.567 --> 00:12:39.634
And later I found out it was in third position.

00:12:39.937 --> 00:12:51.148
This finding different harmonicas for certain songs kept me busy for a few years because I still didn't know anything about first position, second or the circle of fifth or any theory.

00:12:51.227 --> 00:12:52.849
So I was still doing it by ear.

00:12:53.210 --> 00:12:54.910
And did you learn any other instruments

00:12:54.971 --> 00:12:55.010
at

00:12:55.071 --> 00:12:55.991
this time or are you

00:12:56.011 --> 00:12:56.552
just harmonica?

00:12:56.793 --> 00:13:03.879
No, only 10 or 11 years ago, I started playing saxophone, which I liked a lot, but the neighbors didn't like it that much.

00:13:03.958 --> 00:13:10.965
So I had to stop after two years or so, but I'm still thinking about maybe trying it again because it It felt good to me.

00:13:11.346 --> 00:13:18.452
Maybe good to mention, I started playing clarinet when I was eight years old and I played it for two or three months or so.

00:13:18.712 --> 00:13:23.217
And I had a teacher because I felt really comfortable on the clarinet at the time.

00:13:23.398 --> 00:13:25.299
I started playing along with songs on the radio.

00:13:25.561 --> 00:13:31.006
And when I told him about it, he said, well, it's absolutely forbidden to play along with other songs.

00:13:31.047 --> 00:13:33.068
You have to study the songs from us.

00:13:33.369 --> 00:13:35.630
And I looked at him, I put down the clarinet and I left.

00:13:35.912 --> 00:13:36.331
And that's it.

00:13:36.712 --> 00:13:39.855
So as you say, you know, you're playing with blues bands in the Netherlands.

00:13:39.855 --> 00:13:42.278
So, you know, what was your sort of journey then?

00:13:42.999 --> 00:13:49.664
I started in my first blues band when I was 16 or 17, but it was more, we did play blues songs, but it was more rock.

00:13:50.125 --> 00:13:53.168
I did it for two or three years with these guys that I met.

00:13:53.207 --> 00:13:57.471
But then I went to the army.

00:13:57.491 --> 00:14:03.197
I had to go to the army for 18 months and I didn't play much harmonica at the time.

00:14:04.479 --> 00:14:07.381
Then when I came out of the army, I was...

00:14:07.937 --> 00:14:09.359
21 years old.

00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.323
Then I picked up harmonica again and then I went to a band.

00:14:13.364 --> 00:14:19.529
My brother is a bass player and he was playing in a band and he asked me for a few songs.

00:14:19.931 --> 00:14:28.940
From there I started joining the band, played harmonica, started singing after a while and I think I played with this band six, seven, eight years or so.

00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:33.004
Then the band stopped and I went to another blues band.

00:14:33.605 --> 00:14:38.096
One or two years later I played with them a few years and it was a bit on and off at

00:14:38.135 --> 00:14:38.238
that

00:14:38.298 --> 00:14:38.500
time.

00:14:38.881 --> 00:14:42.407
And recently you've been playing with a band called The Marble Tones.

00:14:42.427 --> 00:14:43.347
That's your current band, yeah?

00:14:43.467 --> 00:14:45.591
Yeah, we started in 2001.

00:14:45.811 --> 00:14:50.717
I met a guy, the bass player and the singer from the band.

00:14:50.738 --> 00:14:59.649
I met him in a jam session in the local bar and he was playing double bass and within two seconds I knew that's the guy I would love to have in the band.

00:14:59.690 --> 00:15:02.013
So right away I went to him and said, how do you feel?

00:15:02.033 --> 00:15:03.294
Do you want to join a band?

00:15:03.335 --> 00:15:04.456
Do you want to start a band?

00:15:04.556 --> 00:15:06.739
And we started talking and the rest is history.

00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:08.100
We still play together.

00:15:08.929 --> 00:15:11.933
Bye.

00:15:23.426 --> 00:15:26.568
So the Marble Tones is the name of an amp.

00:15:26.828 --> 00:15:27.970
There's a Marble Tones amp.

00:15:28.090 --> 00:15:29.792
Is there a connection to the amplifiers?

00:15:30.331 --> 00:15:37.758
Yeah, because when I asked the bass player if he wanted to join the band, he said yes, but I had to find a guitar player and a drummer as well.

00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:44.423
And luckily, a woman in the fitness center where I worked, he was married to a man who was a drummer, a very good one.

00:15:44.845 --> 00:15:52.730
In that time, I was asked by someone else to go with him to a local shop who was building amps close to where I lived.

00:15:52.892 --> 00:15:54.092
And it turned out to be marble.

00:15:54.452 --> 00:15:59.158
In that time, I was already struggling with good amps because I couldn't find good amps in that time.

00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:03.083
But he went there for a guitar amp, a tube amp, hand-built by marble.

00:16:03.344 --> 00:16:07.908
And when I was there for the first time, I noticed he had a few guitars hanging around.

00:16:08.009 --> 00:16:09.291
I said, do you play guitar as well?

00:16:09.350 --> 00:16:09.551
Yes.

00:16:09.812 --> 00:16:10.072
Okay.

00:16:10.312 --> 00:16:11.974
I asked him to be a guitar player.

00:16:12.294 --> 00:16:14.918
And the second question was, do you build harmonica amps?

00:16:15.298 --> 00:16:15.918
And he said, no.

00:16:16.158 --> 00:16:17.059
And that's how it started.

00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:24.265
When we started the band, to honor him, because he built my first harmonica amp, I said, should we name the band Marble Tones?

00:16:24.645 --> 00:16:26.047
And that's how it started.

00:16:26.248 --> 00:16:26.447
Great.

00:16:26.488 --> 00:16:30.390
So did you have some involvement in the design of the harmonica amp that they make?

00:16:30.510 --> 00:16:32.472
Yeah, because he made a prototype.

00:16:32.832 --> 00:16:34.654
And from there, we started.

00:16:34.674 --> 00:16:37.057
He just based it on a Fender Bassman.

00:16:37.356 --> 00:16:41.159
That was his first amp, because he was doing this for guitar as well.

00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:42.321
But he modified it.

00:16:42.701 --> 00:16:44.884
And from there, he started building...

00:16:45.264 --> 00:16:46.644
specific harmonica amps.

00:16:47.145 --> 00:16:56.375
In the time I already had bought a Sony Junior amp, I allowed him to have a look at my Sony Junior and he started like building two or three prototypes.

00:16:56.996 --> 00:16:58.879
And that's how the journey went for us.

00:16:59.099 --> 00:17:07.647
And I still test amps and we still try crazy things with resistors and capacitors and everything to get the amps better.

00:17:07.988 --> 00:17:08.348
Right, great.

00:17:08.368 --> 00:17:11.791
So these are custom harmonica amps, you know, designed for harmonica, obviously.

00:17:11.832 --> 00:17:14.214
So they do, I think, four types, don't they?

00:17:14.255 --> 00:17:30.231
They've got the max of blue sonic the the harp wood and the harp master so they're basically increasing in size from uh you know one eight to eight inch speaker up to sort of six eight eight inch speakers so what about i mean i've heard good things about these amps i've never actually tried one so um clearly you like them what would you say about them

00:17:31.073 --> 00:17:47.349
i know all the amps in detail because i've tested in detail with him and like the eight inch speakers he's now using a special design from jensen special design for marble the blue tone speaker but i think they sent us 12 or 15 different types.

00:17:47.810 --> 00:17:50.153
And then we started doing double blind tests.

00:17:50.192 --> 00:17:52.655
It took us four weeks to analyze all the speakers.

00:17:52.955 --> 00:18:00.604
In the end, we had two left and I played it 10, 20 times, one speaker, the other speaker, still using different microphones, et cetera.

00:18:00.865 --> 00:18:03.528
And then I said, well, this is the one I like most.

00:18:03.867 --> 00:18:05.569
That's the one he's using now.

00:18:05.829 --> 00:18:06.009
Great.

00:18:06.029 --> 00:18:09.574
And of the four options, which do you use the most?

00:18:09.913 --> 00:18:12.196
The last kicks I did, I use a Harpwood.

00:18:12.557 --> 00:18:15.119
So the Harpwood is a four times eight speaker?

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:15.701
Yeah,

00:18:15.721 --> 00:18:20.846
but in the past few years, people can change the configuration.

00:18:20.885 --> 00:18:32.798
They can say, I want three speakers, maybe three times 10, two times eight, one 10, or I had one amp, a Harp Boot with a one 15-inch speaker designed for James Harmon.

00:18:33.138 --> 00:18:34.119
That was my favorite amp.

00:18:34.421 --> 00:18:39.746
But at the moment, I feel comfortable using any Harp Boot amp, and I prefer the Harp Boot.

00:18:39.786 --> 00:18:41.688
It gives me a bit more headroom.

00:18:41.728 --> 00:18:47.357
It can be very loud, and I always turn up my amp very loudly on stage, which allows me to play quiet.

00:18:47.578 --> 00:19:15.655
It sounds a bit weird to most people, but when my amp is just below the point where it starts to feedback, I get my maximum volume, I get my biggest tone, and when I play more quiet on the amp I still have a big tone when you turn down the amp a bit more to avoid feedback or to be not as loud as the amp can be you also take away dynamics of the amp and it doesn't sound good when you play quiet that's my approach to playing amplified

00:19:16.037 --> 00:19:23.143
sure yeah and what about if you want to use one of the smaller ones you've got the 1x8 or the 2x8 do you use one of those for a smaller situation

00:19:23.383 --> 00:19:35.442
I once had to use it in the UK for a few gigs because the pops were so small we didn't find place for a big amp and I just take a Marble Max, put it on a bar stool or just on a table to be heard.

00:19:35.462 --> 00:19:38.009
It was loud enough for a small bar.

00:19:47.137 --> 00:19:53.103
And I mean, what would you say then about, you know, using custom built harmonica amplifier against other amplifiers?

00:19:53.143 --> 00:19:55.204
You know, do you want to use the marble amps now?

00:19:55.325 --> 00:19:56.625
Because, you know, for that reason?

00:19:56.925 --> 00:20:02.290
Well, I still love the marble amps, but I also use, I use Moscow amps.

00:20:02.451 --> 00:20:04.893
I use different vintage amps.

00:20:05.193 --> 00:20:08.896
But at the moment I use a Quilter small transistor amp.

00:20:09.037 --> 00:20:10.617
It's like a small FX pedal.

00:20:10.738 --> 00:20:11.818
It's very small.

00:20:11.898 --> 00:20:13.381
It's the micro block 45.

00:20:13.760 --> 00:20:16.423
It's a 45 watt transistor amp.

00:20:16.763 --> 00:20:19.248
And I use in an old cabinet with a vintage speaker.

00:20:19.808 --> 00:20:29.990
It's so funny when I do a jam session and I have my old cabinet with an old Jensen speaker in it and I have the amp on top which looks like an effect pedal.

00:20:30.273 --> 00:20:34.284
People always come to me and say, what a beautiful tube sound you have on this amp.

00:20:34.664 --> 00:20:42.163
And I point them to my transistor amp and they are almost shocked sometimes because it really sounds like a tube amp.

00:20:42.182 --> 00:20:45.049
But this is maybe what I also learned from Paul DeLay.

00:20:45.211 --> 00:20:47.978
It's how you play the harmonica, how you...

00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:51.416
Build your tone with everything you can do to have a better tone.

00:20:51.837 --> 00:20:54.625
It will make sound any mic better.

00:20:54.744 --> 00:20:56.789
It makes any amp better.

00:20:57.211 --> 00:20:58.394
It makes you sound like you.

00:20:58.513 --> 00:21:01.200
And then it doesn't matter if it's a tube or transistor.

00:21:01.741 --> 00:21:02.202
Sure, yeah.

00:21:02.323 --> 00:21:05.309
So a transistor we'd also describe as a solid state amp.

00:21:05.473 --> 00:21:06.934
I should have said solid

00:21:06.954 --> 00:21:07.455
state indeed.

00:21:08.016 --> 00:21:08.436
No, great.

00:21:08.477 --> 00:21:11.719
Yeah, so yeah, you're using a variety of amps then for your sound.

00:21:11.739 --> 00:21:14.080
So back to your recording.

00:21:14.122 --> 00:21:17.704
So you made a self-produced album called The Harp Game Is On.

00:21:17.884 --> 00:21:20.307
So how did you go about this and putting this together?

00:21:20.886 --> 00:21:29.515
My first take on this was I wanted to record some songs for students to give them some stuff to practice with.

00:21:29.775 --> 00:21:34.479
And because I've played all the solos, of course, I could easily discuss how I play them.

00:21:34.699 --> 00:21:35.840
But when I was busy with that.

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.287
I found out that people liked it a lot, the songs that I had.

00:21:39.446 --> 00:21:41.310
I said, well, let me put them on a CD.

00:21:41.570 --> 00:21:43.013
And it was just some home recording.

00:21:43.474 --> 00:21:46.901
I was just using the iMac, a good mic, some backing tracks, and that's it.

00:21:47.561 --> 00:21:49.826
You've got a variety of approaches on there, haven't you?

00:21:49.865 --> 00:21:53.031
You've got kind of the country of the blues, which is a country harmonica song.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:21:57.794 --> 00:22:03.626
You've

00:22:06.814 --> 00:22:09.779
got a song called Just Mine in which he's third position.

00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:14.289
So yeah, you were trying to get on different sort of styles of harmonica, yeah?

00:22:16.173 --> 00:22:16.253
Yeah.

00:22:25.122 --> 00:22:28.567
Yeah, it was very useful for my students at that time.

00:22:29.528 --> 00:22:35.936
But only, as I said, because they liked it so much, I said, well, let me put them on a CD and just a home recording project.

00:22:35.997 --> 00:22:39.340
But if people want to have one, they can always contact me about it.

00:22:40.142 --> 00:22:41.423
Yeah, no, some great stuff on there.

00:22:41.443 --> 00:22:43.006
So, I mean, what about the process?

00:22:43.026 --> 00:22:48.173
You know, I've talked with a few people about kind of these self-produced albums and, you know, what about that process?

00:22:48.232 --> 00:22:49.595
And I think it's a great thing to do.

00:22:49.634 --> 00:22:51.096
You know, what did you learn from it?

00:22:51.778 --> 00:22:53.040
I already did a lot of home

00:22:53.080 --> 00:22:54.663
recording and I still do.

00:22:54.943 --> 00:23:09.073
In fact, when I'm at home and I work on my harmonicas or do anything else, sometimes it's like I hear a lick in my head, I grab a harmonica, switch on my iMac, Reaper is always on, the mic is standing there, I just play.

00:23:09.272 --> 00:23:13.662
And this happens sometimes 10 times a day, maybe one time a day.

00:23:13.857 --> 00:23:15.378
Every day I make recordings.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:17.221
Sometimes it's a 10-second lick.

00:23:17.260 --> 00:23:20.584
Sometimes it's things that I now bring into my theme.

00:23:20.683 --> 00:23:23.326
Sometimes it's things that I need for my students.

00:23:23.346 --> 00:23:27.549
So I may have thousands of home recordings, all kinds of stuff.

00:23:27.670 --> 00:23:33.875
It's always acoustic because I just want to forget what I heard in my head.

00:23:34.276 --> 00:23:34.615
Sure, yeah.

00:23:34.635 --> 00:23:35.936
And what microphone do you use for that?

00:23:36.317 --> 00:23:42.262
I have this Rode NT1-A, but I had it customized by someone in the US.

00:23:42.282 --> 00:23:43.463
It's almost...

00:23:43.824 --> 00:23:46.969
like a Fittish Neumann sound now.

00:23:47.169 --> 00:23:50.454
Put a different element in it and it sounds more open and more natural.

00:23:50.855 --> 00:23:54.761
And you're in another act which is a blues duo called Blue Bridge.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:24:11.137 --> 00:24:16.226
Yeah, that's someone I think I met him 40 years ago already.

00:24:16.306 --> 00:24:19.309
In the time I lived in Arnhem, in the middle of Holland.

00:24:19.411 --> 00:24:21.693
And he was playing there in the local bar.

00:24:21.814 --> 00:24:27.403
And the good thing is this guy is playing wonderful guitar, slight guitar.

00:24:27.663 --> 00:24:31.028
He has a nice voice and he's a very good harmonica player as well.

00:24:31.328 --> 00:24:35.255
It's on and off with him, but it's always like coming home when I play with him.

00:24:35.315 --> 00:24:37.438
Because when I play harmonica, he knows everything.

00:24:37.857 --> 00:24:42.002
where I will go on harmonica because he knows what harmonica playing is.

00:24:42.383 --> 00:24:49.049
It is always good, isn't it, if a guitar player who plays some harmonica, they're quite nice and sympathetic to this harmonica right now and what you need.

00:24:49.411 --> 00:24:50.751
Yeah, it's the same with Marble Tones.

00:24:50.832 --> 00:24:58.480
The guitar player in Marble Tones, he's not the typical blues soloist guitar player who wants to play loud and a lot.

00:24:58.601 --> 00:25:04.867
He loves playing just nice chords and licks and helping me to do what I love most.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:25:08.609 --> 00:25:25.174
I mean, you mentioned there that you do lots of recordings, so you regularly put out YouTube videos of recordings that you've done.

00:25:25.355 --> 00:25:28.500
I've got you demonstrating your tone using a coffee cup.

00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:34.750
Yeah.

00:25:39.809 --> 00:25:41.351
Got you playing Watermelon Man.

00:25:41.612 --> 00:25:44.634
Like you said, you often just want to start playing and record yourself.

00:25:44.874 --> 00:25:47.797
I think 99% of what I do is improvised.

00:25:48.096 --> 00:25:54.061
I hardly ever practice a lick before recording, because I want people to hear that it's me.

00:25:54.162 --> 00:26:01.169
And when I play, I still want to be able to pick up the harmonica and play right away what I feel is okay.

00:26:01.588 --> 00:26:07.634
When you practice it, it's not about how you feel, but how you play it, which feels different to me.

00:26:07.953 --> 00:26:14.041
And that's why I was always so bad at copying people because I couldn't play the same thing over

00:26:14.082 --> 00:26:14.622
and over again.

00:26:14.662 --> 00:26:21.211
So you mentioned teaching, so obviously you're teaching Linda Harmonica and you release sort of YouTube tuition videos.

00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:24.174
So you've got recently these different themes as you're calling them.

00:26:24.335 --> 00:26:29.362
So theme number one was using a kind of four bar theme and then improvising four bars.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
...

00:26:41.057 --> 00:26:50.451
Since then you've been releasing, I think you're up to number 24, the last one I saw.

00:26:50.471 --> 00:26:56.381
Number 24 is based on basically having a lyric in your head and then sort of playing the kind of lyric.

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000
.

00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:11.109
Yeah, I call it vocal

00:27:11.171 --> 00:27:16.281
playing, refers to what I told before about playing how I feel.

00:27:16.481 --> 00:27:21.987
When I hear something, a lick, it could also be a sentence or a word or someone's humming.

00:27:22.027 --> 00:27:25.189
Anything that triggers me makes me play the harmonica.

00:27:25.289 --> 00:27:30.253
And I don't sing in a band anymore, but sometimes when I'm at home, I make recordings and I sing a little.

00:27:30.394 --> 00:27:37.259
And from that is feeling, playing what I hear in my head is often maybe a sentence or a feel that I have.

00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:37.961
Sure, yeah.

00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:44.226
And just about the singing, what's made you give up the singing as a harmonic player, obviously it's quite a good skill to have.

00:27:44.406 --> 00:27:48.191
Yeah, but I was never 100% happy with my voice.

00:27:48.471 --> 00:27:54.336
Maybe my voice was okay, but to my standard, I said, no, it's better not to do it.

00:27:54.657 --> 00:28:01.724
Yeah, there's a difference, isn't there, when you get a really good singer against, like you say, you can sing, but get a really good singer, you're like, yeah, wow, that's so much better, isn't it?

00:28:02.185 --> 00:28:03.126
So yeah, I'm with you there.

00:28:03.346 --> 00:28:09.794
So you do have a business, which is Ben Bauman Harmonicas, where you customize harmonicas, so sidle harmonicas.

00:28:10.034 --> 00:28:15.601
You were involved with the, when the Idle first started looking in using stainless steel reeds here.

00:28:15.905 --> 00:28:20.349
Yeah, I think I met Bertram Becker from Seidel.

00:28:20.369 --> 00:28:22.811
I met him at least 20 years ago.

00:28:22.852 --> 00:28:27.855
Let's see, Seidel started in 2007 with the Steel Reads, 2008.

00:28:28.156 --> 00:28:30.538
So I think I met Bertram a few years before.

00:28:30.959 --> 00:28:41.248
In Klingenthal, there was a workshop from a guy and I went there just more or less like a holidays, but I went to this workshop and Bertram was there as well and we met and talked.

00:28:41.868 --> 00:28:48.114
He introduced me to the people from Seidel in that time, the The factory was only using the brass reeds.

00:28:48.494 --> 00:28:54.882
Bertram introduced me to the chief engineer, Carl Puchold, which I always loved.

00:28:55.082 --> 00:29:00.287
The man, he looks like an old shepherd, but he's very, very intelligent.

00:29:00.508 --> 00:29:03.451
And he studied everything about harmonica.

00:29:03.471 --> 00:29:04.892
He went to university.

00:29:04.912 --> 00:29:08.476
This guy still knows everything about harmonica.

00:29:08.776 --> 00:29:10.679
And then the factory was broke.

00:29:11.199 --> 00:29:13.862
Five or six people kept the company going.

00:29:14.423 --> 00:29:15.644
One of them was Carl Puchold.

00:29:15.824 --> 00:29:20.449
He was always having typical experimental harmonicas that he made.

00:29:20.489 --> 00:29:28.396
In his old building from Sadler, he had this all, almost like secret room on the second floor where nobody was allowed to enter.

00:29:28.436 --> 00:29:31.079
Only the people that he asked to enter were allowed there.

00:29:31.361 --> 00:29:43.393
And Bertram, shortly after the factory was bought by four people and they wanted to start again, Bertram asked me to come to Karl Puchold and test some prototypes that he had.

00:29:43.614 --> 00:30:56.891
So we went in a small room that was packed with tools and harmonicas and Carl was sitting there and he was telling a little about harmonicas and we had to test a few things so he handed harmonica to me and I played it and it didn't feel good so I gave it back to him he looked at my face and he gave me the next one hmm it was a bit better but still hmm he gave me another one looked like another model I played it it was okay it still didn't make me smile then he gave me a harmonica I played it literally for one second I stopped I said Carl I will put this one in my pockets and I won't give it back to you and then he started to smile which he doesn't do very often and it turned out this was a harmonica with handmade steel reeds by him I'm not saying it was the perfect harmonica but it fitted my way of tone building my way of breathing my way of playing and I said well this is maybe a thing that you think about for the future as your top model and Bertram agreed because he had the same feeling with steel reeds and this is how it released started and from there they did some tests and they found another company who could make steel reeds etc etc but I was very happy with it So what is it about steel reeds that you like?

00:30:56.971 --> 00:31:01.078
Well it allows me to get the tone that feels nice to me.

00:31:01.118 --> 00:31:04.142
It gives me a warm tone when I want it.

00:31:04.162 --> 00:31:06.384
It gives me a loud tone when I want it.

00:31:06.503 --> 00:31:08.326
It gives me a bright tone when I need it.

00:31:08.346 --> 00:31:10.567
I can make it sound like a marine band.

00:31:10.587 --> 00:31:13.911
I can make it sound like Suzuki, but you will always hear it's me.

00:31:13.951 --> 00:31:18.974
It allows me to express myself on the harmonica, which I don't have with brass reeds.

00:31:19.295 --> 00:31:21.656
They always limit me for some reason.

00:31:21.676 --> 00:31:24.980
I really can't say what it is, but I feel limited.

00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:30.165
Although I love playing a custom marine band as well, but it still feels different to me.

00:31:30.426 --> 00:31:33.757
And only when I play on steel reeds, it sounds natural to me.

00:31:34.157 --> 00:31:38.309
But I mean, as a customizer, as you say, you have a business where you sell custom harps.

00:31:38.329 --> 00:31:40.798
Do you only do Seidels in your customization or...?

00:31:41.185 --> 00:31:41.926
Yes, and only

00:31:41.987 --> 00:31:43.788
the steel reed harmonicas.

00:31:44.209 --> 00:31:49.673
As soon as they started producing them, I did some tests with them if I could customize them.

00:31:49.894 --> 00:31:51.954
At the time, I was once a month.

00:31:52.215 --> 00:32:08.690
I went a week to Seidel when the factory was bought by these four people because they wanted me to test all the types that they have and write a report about it to see what models they should stop selling and which ones were better.

00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:16.217
But I did a lot of testing at that time to if I could improve the quality, if I could use them for customisation.

00:32:16.577 --> 00:32:21.542
I found that it felt good to me to work on steel reeds because they're more forgiving than brass reeds.

00:32:21.722 --> 00:32:30.192
I can really twist a reed and bend it back to a straight shape and it still works without any problem, which you can't do with a brass reed.

00:32:30.432 --> 00:32:37.299
So you get kind of fractures in the surface of brass reeds, don't you, which really kind of impacts the tuning of things, isn't it?

00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.162
So you don't get that problem with steel reeds?

00:32:39.561 --> 00:32:50.193
You get the same things, but people always think that steel is very stiff, very solid, but steel is a bit more elastic than brass reeds.

00:32:50.253 --> 00:32:54.357
That's what Karl Puchol told me and what I hear from different people as well.

00:32:54.959 --> 00:32:59.864
When you bend a brass reed, bend it like 90 degrees, do it 10 times and it will break.

00:33:00.084 --> 00:33:04.990
When you take a steel reed, you can bend it 100 times, 90 degrees or more, and it doesn't break.

00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:09.914
For me, when I'm tuning my own harmonicas and when I do the steel reeds, they certainly feel tougher.

00:33:09.954 --> 00:33:15.401
I have to take more material off, you know, go at it harder to get the material off and that sort of thing.

00:33:15.441 --> 00:33:18.743
So what about when you customise them, what are you finding about the differences with them?

00:33:19.164 --> 00:33:25.771
I found some tools that are really helpful when I work on my reeds and I don't tune with a file or anything else.

00:33:25.892 --> 00:33:29.316
I use a rotary machine like a Dremel.

00:33:29.556 --> 00:33:30.936
I don't use a diamond tip or so.

00:33:31.057 --> 00:33:37.084
It's a tip made from very solid rubber injected with small metal particles.

00:33:37.403 --> 00:33:43.190
So it gives me a very good way to control how much material I remove from the reed.

00:33:43.371 --> 00:33:47.134
It's more like polishing the reed than filing away material.

00:33:47.474 --> 00:34:01.470
I was reading your website about your customization and you do produce some harmonicas where you have all polished reeds, don't you, which you then have to, I think you have to have it a semitone up because it sort of tunes it down to the kind of almost a semitone below, isn't it?

00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:09.518
I still do it every now and then but at the moment I use more and more the reeds from the Lightning from Seidel because they also polish the reeds.

00:34:09.759 --> 00:34:12.001
But my polishing is a bit different from what Seidel does.

00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:17.246

Ben Bouman interview

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